LipeGIG
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TAM To Fly GIG-CDG Non-stop

Wed Nov 08, 2006 9:37 am

Tam just confirmed it will run a daily flight between Rio de Janeiro (GIG) and Paris (CDG) with their A332. Flights will begin on January 12 (CDG-GIG on January 13), and will be the 3rd TAM flight at CDG.

JJ8086 GIG 2355 CDG 1350
JJ8087 CDG 2130 GIG 0605

This new flight will also allow a lot of connections out of GIG.

No info yet about a possible code-share with AF. And it's funny that now both operators keep the same network size, AF with 21 weekly flights and Tam with 21 weekly flights on january (AF just informed that they will upgrade Sao Paulo-CDG from 12x to 13x next week and 14x on december).

This flight become possible due to the recent upgrade on Brazil-France bilateral, from 21 weekly to 28 weekly flights.

Varig keep 7 frequencies unused and AF could run 6 more frequencies (they run nowadays 2 weekly cargo flights which will be reduced to one per week).

Nice move from Tam as GIG is really in need of international flights to Europe arriving on the morning.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
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LTU932
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RE: TAM To Fly GIG-CDG Non-stop

Wed Nov 08, 2006 11:29 am

Quoting LipeGIG (Thread starter):
JJ8086 GIG 2355 CDG 1350
JJ8087 CDG 2130 GIG 0605

That's a very long groundtime. Could JJ use eventually this downtime to add another short flight, like AMS, or would they, in the case of my example of AMS, codeshare with AF or KL?
 
flyguy1
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RE: TAM To Fly GIG-CDG Non-stop

Wed Nov 08, 2006 11:52 am

Any chance TAM will open GIG-JFK?
727, L1011, MD80, A300, 777-200, 737-300, 737-700, 747-400, 757-200, 737-800, A320. E190, E135, 767-200, CRJ9
 
MAH4546
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RE: TAM To Fly GIG-CDG Non-stop

Wed Nov 08, 2006 4:16 pm

Quoting Flyguy1 (Reply 2):
Any chance TAM will open GIG-JFK?

Unlikely. MIA-GIG is up next, and it seems that MIA-FOR (non-stop in addition to the current MIA-MAO-BEL-FOR flight) is all but certain.
a.
 
HB-IWC
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RE: TAM To Fly GIG-CDG Non-stop

Wed Nov 08, 2006 5:45 pm

Quoting LipeGIG (Thread starter):
Varig keep 7 frequencies unused and AF could run 6 more frequencies (they run nowadays 2 weekly cargo flights which will be reduced to one per week).

Air France is expected to make use of those 6 free frequencies pretty soon. It is likely that AF will either announce a new gateway into Brazil, with Recife being mentioned most often, or increase capacity on CDG-GIG by the addition of a daylight southbound flight. My guess is that a combination of both might actually be implemented.
 
hardiwv
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RE: TAM To Fly GIG-CDG Non-stop

Wed Nov 08, 2006 6:11 pm

Quoting LipeGIG (Thread starter):
Tam just confirmed it will run a daily flight between Rio de Janeiro (GIG) and Paris (CDG) with their A332. Flights will begin on January 12 (CDG-GIG on January 13), and will be the 3rd TAM flight at CDG.

JJ8086 GIG 2355 CDG 1350
JJ8087 CDG 2130 GIG 0605

Excellent news, Lipe! Congratulations for TAM and for the Marvelouos City, which indeed is in desperate need of more intercontinental nonstop flights. It also shows TAM's commitment to GIG, in which the airline has been expanding its operations rapidly over the last months.

This week TAM started GIG-FLN and GIG-BEL both nonstop A320 (174Y). There is no doubt TAM is openining a new gateway in GIG.

Question: When is TAM going to open its business lounge in GIG? I guess RG's lounge now is more used by TAP than RG itself...

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 4):
Air France is expected to make use of those 6 free frequencies pretty soon. It is likely that AF will either announce a new gateway into Brazil, with Recife being mentioned most often, or increase capacity on CDG-GIG by the addition of a daylight southbound flight. My guess is that a combination of both might actually be implemented.

I still think that AF will operate CDG-REC with one of the runs daylight the same way TP operates NE Brazil routes.

...and my fingers keep crossed for an eventual KL AMS-GIG A330...

Rgs,


Rgs,
 
LipeGIG
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RE: TAM To Fly GIG-CDG Non-stop

Wed Nov 08, 2006 9:08 pm

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 1):
That's a very long groundtime. Could JJ use eventually this downtime to add another short flight, like AMS, or would they, in the case of my example of AMS, codeshare with AF or KL?

Tam is looking for a short leg with such flight GIG-CDG as per JJMNGR past comments. In Rio the plane will remain on ground also, but i believe Tam is looking to use the plane in the near future.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 3):
Unlikely. MIA-GIG is up next, and it seems that MIA-FOR (non-stop in addition to the current MIA-MAO-BEL-FOR flight) is all but certain.

I expect they begin MIA-GIG by February or march/07.

Quoting Flyguy1 (Reply 2):
Any chance TAM will open GIG-JFK?

That's my dream... even some stops on the daily-light which will begin on Dec 15.

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 4):
Air France is expected to make use of those 6 free frequencies pretty soon. It is likely that AF will either announce a new gateway into Brazil, with Recife being mentioned most often, or increase capacity on CDG-GIG by the addition of a daylight southbound flight. My guess is that a combination of both might actually be implemented

I heard from AF Brazil about KL plans to begin GIG-AMS and also up to 3 additional CDG-GIG. REC seems to be the AF destination in Northeast.

Important to say that AF can fly even more to Sao Paulo or begin a new station in any other Brazilian city.

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 5):
This week TAM started GIG-FLN and GIG-BEL both nonstop A320 (174Y). There is no doubt TAM is openining a new gateway in GIG.

There's more to come.. the second SCL will begin at GIG, another POA-GIG-POA flight, and plans for more CWB, BSB, SSA, NAT, CPQ and even more POA.
Yesterday i try to check possible connections (the flight is uploaded since yesterday and available for sale on Tam website), and for passengers from BSB, CNF, VIX, CPQ, CGH (yes... you can fly CGH-GIG-CDG), POA, MAO, BEL, FOR, it's faster to connect on the new flight (the reason is obviously GIG keep more domestic services to the main destinations than any other international airport in Brazil).

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 5):
Question: When is TAM going to open its business lounge in GIG? I guess RG's lounge now is more used by TAP than RG itself...

Domestic will be ready on January 07, and as a good lounge, after the check point (Infraero X-Ray Check). International, i need to obtain the info, but should be before they begin the GIG-CDG flight, both on TPS2. And you're right, TP is the largest user of RG lounge.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
HB-IWC
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RE: TAM To Fly GIG-CDG Non-stop

Wed Nov 08, 2006 10:24 pm

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 6):
I heard from AF Brazil about KL plans to begin GIG-AMS

I though the current Bilateral Air Services Agreement between The Netherlands and Brazil prevents KLM from making such a move? Or has that bilateral been upgraded as well recently?
 
jfk777
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RE: TAM To Fly GIG-CDG Non-stop

Wed Nov 08, 2006 10:32 pm

I think TAM is finally becoming what it should have been, Brazil's FIRST airline. Varig had that role for too long at the hand of the self-interested Ruben Berta Foundation. With GIG service outside South America, and new LHR service TAM needs to decide if its time to go to Japan.
 
LipeGIG
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RE: TAM To Fly GIG-CDG Non-stop

Wed Nov 08, 2006 10:55 pm

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 7):
I though the current Bilateral Air Services Agreement between The Netherlands and Brazil prevents KLM from making such a move? Or has that bilateral been upgraded as well recently?

Seems that AF/KL ask for revision, not confirmed yet by ANAC.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
jog
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RE: TAM To Fly GIG-CDG Non-stop

Wed Nov 08, 2006 10:55 pm

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 8):
TAM needs to decide if its time to go to Japan.

I don't see TAM anytime soon in Japan. Before that I rather see them partnering with LH in FRA and then codesharing on LH's flights to Japan and China. In addition, TAM already has a cooperation with JAL via CDG in place.
 
hardiwv
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RE: TAM To Fly GIG-CDG Non-stop

Wed Nov 08, 2006 11:17 pm

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 9):
Seems that AF/KL ask for revision

There is a real chance that KL could operate AMS-GIG A330 starting in 2007. The revision was officially requested and I'm sure it will be granted by ANAC. AF/KL calculated that it would be better to open a new gateway from GIG (i.e. AMS) rather than increase AF flights. I agree with their strategy.

Rgs,
 
LipeGIG
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RE: TAM To Fly GIG-CDG Non-stop

Thu Nov 09, 2006 12:51 am

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 11):
There is a real chance that KL could operate AMS-GIG A330 starting in 2007. The revision was officially requested and I'm sure it will be granted by ANAC. AF/KL calculated that it would be better to open a new gateway from GIG (i.e. AMS) rather than increase AF flights. I agree with their strategy.

Agree with you and with AF/KL as now Tam increased their CDG flights with a new one from GIG, does not make sense that AF offers more frequencies now to Paris. Better that they open a new destination with KL from AMS. Will be nice to see the beautiful blue A332 at GIG!

Also, it's now clear that AF will open a third destination in Brazil as KL will take care of their demand in Rio.

As soon as ANAC approve the upgrade, i will try to let you know.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
HB-IWC
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RE: TAM To Fly GIG-CDG Non-stop

Thu Nov 09, 2006 2:35 am

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 11):
There is a real chance that KL could operate AMS-GIG A330 starting in 2007.

That would be great news, and I'm gonna make a bold prediction and say that the route will be opened with B772 and not A332. An AMS-GIG route would be an oddball in the A332's flying program and a route of this stage length fits better in the B772's profile at KLM. A KLM operated AMS-GIG flight is likely to operate along a soutbound daylight pattern, just like the airline's daily GRU service.
 
FCKC
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RE: TAM To Fly GIG-CDG Non-stop

Thu Nov 09, 2006 3:15 am

Where will JJ send the MD-11s , and later 777s ?
 
MAH4546
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RE: TAM To Fly GIG-CDG Non-stop

Thu Nov 09, 2006 4:30 am

Quoting FCKC (Reply 14):
Where will JJ send the MD-11s , and later 777s ?

MD-11s probably on MIA-GIG; 773s, when they come, probably on their flagship routes - Miami and Paris.
a.
 
hardiwv
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RE: TAM To Fly GIG-CDG Non-stop

Thu Nov 09, 2006 7:14 am

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 13):
That would be great news, and I'm gonna make a bold prediction and say that the route will be opened with B772 and not A332. An AMS-GIG route would be an oddball in the A332's flying program and a route of this stage length fits better in the B772's profile at KLM. A KLM operated AMS-GIG flight is likely to operate along a soutbound daylight pattern, just like the airline's daily GRU service

You are correct again. The B772 would make more sense for a possible AMS-GIG route. However, in this case perhaps KL would deploy the MD-11. It is indeed a very bold prediction to see KL landing the B772 in GIG!

Quoting FCKC (Reply 14):
Where will JJ send the MD-11s , and later 777s ?

My prediction is MD-11 on GIG-MIA and GRU-JFK daylight (3 x MD-11s, right?) and B77Wa on GRU-JFK redeye and GRU-CDG.

Rgs,
 
MAH4546
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RE: TAM To Fly GIG-CDG Non-stop

Thu Nov 09, 2006 8:10 am

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 16):

My prediction is MD-11 on GIG-MIA and GRU-JFK daylight (3 x MD-11s, right?) and B77Wa on GRU-JFK redeye and GRU-CDG.

The MD-11s will probably be based in GIG-only, from what I hear, so only on MIA-GIG. One rumour is that the pair of MD-11s will be dedicated to flying a daily MIA-GIG redeye and a daily MIA-XXX-GIG daylight. It seems like too much of a capacity increase at once, but nothing would be too surprising at TAM these days.

I doubt JFK will see the 77W before MIA, but it's a long ways off, so things can change.

[Edited 2006-11-09 00:11:46]
a.
 
LipeGIG
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RE: TAM To Fly GIG-CDG Non-stop

Thu Nov 09, 2006 11:18 am

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 16):
My prediction is MD-11 on GIG-MIA and GRU-JFK daylight (3 x MD-11s, right?) and B77Wa on GRU-JFK redeye and GRU-CDG.

Remember that the plane used on a night flight to JFK, will be used on the next daily-light to GRU. TAM need to use 2 M11 in a single route, and 1 M11 in another (new) route.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 17):
The MD-11s will probably be based in GIG-only, from what I hear, so only on MIA-GIG. One rumour is that the pair of MD-11s will be dedicated to flying a daily MIA-GIG redeye and a daily MIA-XXX-GIG daylight. It seems like too much of a capacity increase at once, but nothing would be too surprising at TAM these days.

Tam was looking for 4 planes but only obtained 3. As they announce 2 planes for the GIG-CDG, they have only one plane available, and seems that during some time, GIG-MIA-GIG will be running with a single plane (GIG-MIA night flight, MIA-GIG daily-light).
MXP seems to be postponed as i doubt the Italian government will agree in increase frequencies (ANAC grant 14 weekly rights to both BRA and TAM and Varig keep 7) in the bilateral.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
LipeGIG
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RE: TAM To Fly GIG-CDG Non-stop

Thu Nov 09, 2006 11:34 am

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 16):
My prediction is MD-11 on GIG-MIA and GRU-JFK daylight (3 x MD-11s, right?) and B77Wa on GRU-JFK redeye and GRU-CDG.

Hardi, cannot run only a daylight or redeye with one plane. They use 2 planes for MIA, 2 for JFK, 2 for LHR and very soon 6 to CDG. 1 M11 for sure will fly GIG-MIA-GIG and 2 M11 IMO will run CDG-GRU.

In the future, i believe London will be the first possible destination (lack of possible upgrade, single flight).

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 17):
The MD-11s will probably be based in GIG-only, from what I hear, so only on MIA-GIG. One rumour is that the pair of MD-11s will be dedicated to flying a daily MIA-GIG redeye and a daily MIA-XXX-GIG daylight. It seems like too much of a capacity increase at once, but nothing would be too surprising at TAM these days.

I believe only 1 M11 stays at GIG. Tam will need to use 2 M11 to replace one of the GRU routes. As JJMNGR informed that the first 2 of 6 A332 are expected only in NOV/07, to keep the current flights, Tam will need to use the 2 M11 at GRU.

GIG-MIA seems to have only 1 plane available (Tam past plans was to lease 4 planes, probably one of the M11 was not in good shape, and they get only 3).
In order to rotate them and allow maintenance (M11 at GIG), i believe Tam will run GRU-MIA with M11's and in the future, become a strong market for the 77W.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
hardiwv
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RE: TAM To Fly GIG-CDG Non-stop

Thu Nov 09, 2006 10:55 pm

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 19):
Hardi, cannot run only a daylight or redeye with one plane. They use 2 planes for MIA, 2 for JFK, 2 for LHR and very soon 6 to CDG. 1 M11 for sure will fly GIG-MIA-GIG and 2 M11 IMO will run CDG-GRU.

I am aware of it, Lipe.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 19):
I believe only 1 M11 stays at GIG.

Agree. I think one MD-11 will stary in GIG while the other 2 in GRU. I hope TAM will keep GIG-CDG with A330 because it has to launch a flight which can compete with AF product on this route (NEV B747). It would not look good if TAM deploy the MD-11 on this route.

It would make sense if TAM uses the MD-11s for US routes since US carrier have an inferior products if compared to European carriers serving GRU and GIG.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 17):
I doubt JFK will see the 77W before MIA, but it's a long ways off, so things can change.

In my view JFK will get the B77W before MIA. But this is only a guess.

Rgs,
 
LipeGIG
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RE: TAM To Fly GIG-CDG Non-stop

Fri Nov 10, 2006 6:39 am

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 20):
It would make sense if TAM uses the MD-11s for US routes since US carrier have an inferior products if compared to European carriers serving GRU and GIG.

You're right, AF and BA products are better than AA or DL, and also, i believe cargo to MIA could be improved with the M11.

Note, Tam published today the press release and the flight is now available on Amadeus.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
AirSpare
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RE: TAM To Fly GIG-CDG Non-stop

Fri Nov 10, 2006 6:53 am

Where will this leave the AA JJ codeshare from MIA to GIG?
Get someone else for your hero worship fetish
 
LipeGIG
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RE: TAM To Fly GIG-CDG Non-stop

Fri Nov 10, 2006 9:46 am

Quoting AirSpare (Reply 22):
Where will this leave the AA JJ codeshare from MIA to GIG?

Could be as Tam could offer to AA a daily-light to Rio. They use to keep code-share on AA904 GIG-MIA but in the near past they finished the agreement.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
JJMNGR
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RE: TAM To Fly GIG-CDG Non-stop

Fri Nov 10, 2006 10:00 am

Can assure that MD11 will not fly to JFK.

The daylight flight GRU/MIA and the night flight MIA/GRU will be with MD11.

The 3rd flight to CDG will do GRU/GIG/CDG and backwards and it is going to be a mix between A332 and MD11.

Cheers,
 
hardiwv
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RE: TAM To Fly GIG-CDG Non-stop

Sat Nov 11, 2006 12:43 am

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 23):
Could be as Tam could offer to AA a daily-light to Rio. They use to keep code-share on AA904 GIG-MIA but in the near past they finished the agreement.

And what is the current status of JJ and AA JFK-GRU? I dont think both airlines are codesharing.

Anyway, as TAM grows in the international market it will also need more codeshares with other airlines. Any idea whether TAM will codeshare with AF for the GIG-CDG flight?

Quoting JJMNGR (Reply 24):
Can assure that MD11 will not fly to JFK.

As expected. JFK will certainly see the B77W.

Quoting LipeGIG (Thread starter):
Nice move from Tam as GIG is really in need of international flights to Europe arriving on the morning.

Correct. Early morning arrival in GIG; late evening departure from GIG; meaning the flight is perfect for executives on business in GIG or connecting in GIG to other domestic destinations.

Rgs,
 
LipeGIG
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RE: TAM To Fly GIG-CDG Non-stop

Sat Nov 11, 2006 1:29 am

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 25):
And what is the current status of JJ and AA JFK-GRU? I dont think both airlines are codesharing.

Yes, they keep code-sharing GRU-JFK flights, JJ still sells AA flights as per it's website (checked right now).

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 25):
Anyway, as TAM grows in the international market it will also need more codeshares with other airlines. Any idea whether TAM will codeshare with AF for the GIG-CDG flight?

We could see a major improvement on their codeshare, we even may see a TAM/AF extended code-share, allowing again to credit FF miles again. Now both will run 2x daily from GRU and 1x daily from GIG by january.

Quoting JJMNGR (Reply 24):
The daylight flight GRU/MIA and the night flight MIA/GRU will be with MD11.

I believe MIA is their key cargo market, and M11 will help Tam to improve their cargo capacity. So one A332 probably could be used to run the flight from GIG to MIA , correct ?

Also, we could expect the M11 flying GRU-MAO ?

Quoting JJMNGR (Reply 24):
The 3rd flight to CDG will do GRU/GIG/CDG and backwards and it is going to be a mix between A332 and MD11.

Tam will probably change some flights on GRU-GIG as nowadays they already offer 2 flights at night, plus the PZ flight that very soon will be able to connect int'l pax (not domestic). One of them probably will be cancelled.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
hardiwv
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RE: TAM To Fly GIG-CDG Non-stop

Mon Nov 13, 2006 8:00 pm

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 26):
We could see a major improvement on their codeshare, we even may see a TAM/AF extended code-share, allowing again to credit FF miles again. Now both will run 2x daily from GRU and 1x daily from GIG by january.

Correct, maybe it will pave the way for TAM to join SkyTeam. It is high time for TAM to make up its mind and decide for a world alliance.

Although TAM and AF will offer the same total number of flights Brazil-France (3 daily each), AF will offer more seat capacity with daily B77W + B747 + A330 while TAM daily 3 x A330, meaning that AF offers about 30% more daily seats than TAM.

Rgs,

[Edited 2006-11-13 12:08:10]
 
LipeGIG
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RE: TAM To Fly GIG-CDG Non-stop

Mon Nov 13, 2006 8:58 pm

Pending on confirmation, i heard yesterday at GIG that Tam probably will lease PP-VRF (ex-RG) from Bristol. It could be the first Boeing on Tam fleet as well as the first 772ER.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
jog
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RE: TAM To Fly GIG-CDG Non-stop

Mon Nov 13, 2006 11:14 pm

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 27):

Correct, maybe it will pave the way for TAM to join SkyTeam. It is high time for TAM to make up its mind and decide for a world alliance.

Based on the comment from Bologna that JJ is looking for a strong local partner at FRA (which can only be LH), I doubt such a decision at the current point in time, but we will see...