NYC777
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Boeing Begins Use Of 777 Moving Line Assembly

Thu Nov 09, 2006 2:31 am

+ Completed first step of converting the line to a moving line.
+ Only final assembly if production process has been converted.
+ Entire production process to be converrted to moving line by 2008.

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/061108/sfw095.html?.v=71

[Edited 2006-11-08 18:34:03]
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leelaw
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RE: Boeing Begins Use Of 777 Moving Line Assembly

Thu Nov 09, 2006 4:27 am

Boeing Begins Use of Moving Assembly Line for 777 Jetliners

SEATTLE, Nov. 08, 2006 -- The Boeing Company [NYSE: BA] has started using a moving assembly line for the first time to build its market-leading 777 jetliner. For now, the moving assembly line is used only during final assembly positions for the airplane, moving it at a steady pace of 1.6 inches per minute during production...






To make its 777 assembly line move during final assembly, Boeing uses a tug that attaches around the front landing gear of the airplane and pulls it forward. The tug has an optical sensor that follows a white line along the floor.

http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/2006/q4/061107b_nr.html
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NYC777
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RE: Boeing Begins Use Of 777 Moving Line Assembly

Thu Nov 09, 2006 4:35 am

Is Boeing supposed to increase the production rates of the 777? If so from what rate to what rate?

Does the moving line help increase the production rate?
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luisca
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RE: Boeing Begins Use Of 777 Moving Line Assembly

Thu Nov 09, 2006 4:36 am

I'm guessing the Dreamliner's assembly will also be moving line from the beggining?
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RE: Boeing Begins Use Of 777 Moving Line Assembly

Thu Nov 09, 2006 4:40 am

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 2):
Is Boeing supposed to increase the production rates of the 777? If so from what rate to what rate?

From 1.6 inches per minute to 2.0?  biggrin 
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NYC777
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RE: Boeing Begins Use Of 777 Moving Line Assembly

Thu Nov 09, 2006 4:45 am

Quoting Revelation (Reply 4):
From 1.6 inches per minute to 2.0?

heh, heh. Good one!  biggrin   laughing 
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Lemurs
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RE: Boeing Begins Use Of 777 Moving Line Assembly

Thu Nov 09, 2006 5:13 am

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 5):
heh, heh. Good one!

It's not such a joke though really...increasing the speed of the moving line at that rate would increase montly production by 20%. That's not a small number folks, even if it's not going to beat any slugs in races.  Wink
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NYC777
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RE: Boeing Begins Use Of 777 Moving Line Assembly

Thu Nov 09, 2006 5:26 am

Ok but what is the monthly 777 out going to be eventually. Right now it seems to be about 5 to 6 per month but are they going to increase it something like 7 to 8 per month?

I think they would have to with the increasing 777 backlog.
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beech19
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RE: Boeing Begins Use Of 777 Moving Line Assembly

Thu Nov 09, 2006 5:34 am

Quoting Revelation (Reply 4):
From 1.6 inches per minute to 2.0?

Actually yes... 2in/min is the proposed speed for the moving lines when they were being talked about. I beleive that is the speed of the 737 lines. So they COULD speed it up 20% as was mentioned and increase production by A LOT.

There has been talk of speeding up the 777 line to faster than 5 days.

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 7):
I think they would have to with the increasing 777 backlog.

I think they should leave it at 5 days myself. It will keep a good backlog yet customer can still get aircraft within 18 months of ordering. Unless they got some massive order (or a few) they should probably leave it alone.
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Gr8Circle
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RE: Boeing Begins Use Of 777 Moving Line Assembly

Thu Nov 09, 2006 7:10 am

A question here.....does Boeing (and Airbus too) have production work round the clock in shifts, or do the plants shut down at night...?
 
beech19
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RE: Boeing Begins Use Of 777 Moving Line Assembly

Thu Nov 09, 2006 8:11 am

Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 9):
A question here.....does Boeing (and Airbus too) have production work round the clock in shifts, or do the plants shut down at night...?

I can't speak for Airbus but at Boeing its 24/7. Day shift, swing and graveyard (only 6 hours long).
They only shut down twice a year... Family Day (in August usually) and for the Christmas-New Years break (1 - 2 weeks).
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RE: Boeing Begins Use Of 777 Moving Line Assembly

Thu Nov 09, 2006 8:13 am

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 7):
Ok but what is the monthly 777 out going to be eventually. Right now it seems to be about 5 to 6 per month but are they going to increase it something like 7 to 8 per month?

The primary limit to the 777 production rate right now is the ability of suppliers to get parts to PAE, I believe.

Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 9):
A question here.....does Boeing (and Airbus too) have production work round the clock in shifts, or do the plants shut down at night...?

Boeing works round-the-clock.
 
787atPAE
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RE: Boeing Begins Use Of 777 Moving Line Assembly

Thu Nov 09, 2006 11:32 am

Boeing may build the aircraft all day, but only the cool stuff happens at night. Stuff like moves of the fuselage sections, wings, etc, over other planes and through the factory. Even the doggone airplane itself goes to the paint shop at night. I've only heard riveting during the day.
 
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RE: Boeing Begins Use Of 777 Moving Line Assembly

Thu Nov 09, 2006 11:39 am

I did see one of EK's 773ER, in full colors, in front of the hanger one morning on the way into work a month or so ago. Fortunately, traffic was not too snarled.  Smile
 
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RE: Boeing Begins Use Of 777 Moving Line Assembly

Thu Nov 09, 2006 11:58 am

Quoting Revelation (Reply 4):
From 1.6 inches per minute to 2.0?

 rotfl  As others noted, so true. The whole point of a moving line is to add a pace to the production. By doing so, workers get motivated to finish before passing a litteral "inchstone." Same number of workers, greater number of airframes. Boeing customers are happy (they get their 777's on time), stockholders are happy (more profit) and the workers should be happy (believe it or not, it improves job security).

Quoting Stitch (Reply 11):
The primary limit to the 777 production rate right now is the ability of suppliers to get parts to PAE, I believe.

They'll be able to ramp up. A 25% increase isn't major. (My math. 25% of 1.6 is 0.4. 0.4+1.6 is 2.0.  Wink

Hence my signature...  duck 
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SlimChance
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RE: Boeing Begins Use Of 777 Moving Line Assembly

Thu Nov 09, 2006 12:16 pm

Quoting Beech19 (Reply 8):
Unless they got some massive order

You mean like if some cargo operator suddenly put in an order for 15+15?  Wink
 
Lokey123
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RE: Boeing Begins Use Of 777 Moving Line Assembly

Thu Nov 09, 2006 12:30 pm

I was down at BFI today and I'm heading up to Everett tomorrow. It should be interesting to get a look at this newly implemented moving assembly line. Will let all know what I see.
 
777MechSys
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RE: Boeing Begins Use Of 777 Moving Line Assembly

Thu Nov 09, 2006 1:55 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 11):
The primary limit to the 777 production rate right now is the ability of suppliers to get parts to PAE, I believe.

 checkmark 

Quoting Beech19 (Reply 8):
There has been talk of speeding up the 777 line to faster than 5 days.

I believe they under 5 right now. 4 to be technical. LOL  Wink I can't let you be right all the time.

Still talks of a 3 day rate.
 
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RE: Boeing Begins Use Of 777 Moving Line Assembly

Thu Nov 09, 2006 2:14 pm

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 2):
Does the moving line help increase the production rate?

This is actually very beneficial to Boeing. My degree is essentially doing things like this.

If anyone has ever seen those older photos of the boeing assembly process, it is a nightmare moving around all the planes to where they need to be. It was a real life game of Tetris. By having it set up this way, Boeing moves the plane down an organized chain, and moves the plane to each station.

Additionally, Boeing can better predict production times, and better fill in orders of new planes, because there is a more organized time slot system.

Yesterday, I spoke to a Boeing recruiter, and he told me that they are able to produce 28 737's a month using 2 moving assembly lines. I wont bore anyone with the details, but this concept has worked so well for Boeing, and has dramatically reduced production time of what it used to be.
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beech19
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RE: Boeing Begins Use Of 777 Moving Line Assembly

Thu Nov 09, 2006 2:37 pm

Quoting 777MechSys (Reply 17):
I believe they under 5 right now. 4 to be technical. LOL I can't let you be right all the time.

Still talks of a 3 day rate.

Well... you COULD...
I thought they were at 5 and talking about going to three. My informant must have been wrong.  duck 
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theweave33
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RE: Boeing Begins Use Of 777 Moving Line Assembly

Thu Nov 09, 2006 4:22 pm

Quoting Toiletboy99999 (Reply 18):
I wont bore anyone with the details

I'd love to hear the details. Is there anywhere on the web where one could find such descriptions?
 
Vorticity
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RE: Boeing Begins Use Of 777 Moving Line Assembly

Thu Nov 09, 2006 5:07 pm

The moving assembly line is part of Boeing's "Lean" efforts. It's intended to eliminate waste, and improve quality. If you really want to know more about it (the details)... read this article..

http://www.boeing.com/news/frontiers/archive/2002/august/cover.html
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cobra27
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RE: Boeing Begins Use Of 777 Moving Line Assembly

Thu Nov 09, 2006 6:49 pm

I think moving assembley line has only pyhcological advantages for workers, they get more into getting the job done. I see no other benefits from. The planes are to big to be put on conveyor line.

Does Airbus have a production line? I am not sure, but I think they don't have and at the same time have lower production cost for A320 family than Boeing 737
 
astuteman
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RE: Boeing Begins Use Of 777 Moving Line Assembly

Thu Nov 09, 2006 7:09 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 4):
From 1.6 inches per minute to 2.0?



Quoting NYC777 (Reply 5):
heh, heh. Good one!

It does sound funny, but it's true - you increase throughput by increasing the pace.
Simple eh?
NOT!  Smile
The pace will be governed by the slowest operation (bottleneck).
Increasing the line pace usually requires a re-engineering of the bottleneck process.
It may even require a re-engineering of the product around the bottleneck process.

(If you're ever bored, ask me what I learned about product re-engineering from watching the guys at Nissan, Sunderland, installing engines/transmissions in Bluebirds..  Smile )

The beauty, though, is a clear visibility as to the overall benefit to the product and the line  thumbsup   cloudnine 

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 14):
. The whole point of a moving line is to add a pace to the production

 checkmark  - A "Cadence" even  Smile

Quoting Vorticity (Reply 21):
.

Thanks for the fascinating link, Vorticity

It's well worth a read, for all you guys out there  checkmark 

Quoting Cobra27 (Reply 22):
I think moving assembley line has only pyhcological advantages for workers

I have to strongly disagree with that, Cobra27.

The moving assembly line imposes a discipline to the production process whose effect is felt right down the supply chain and back into design.  yes 

Vorticity's link scratches the surface. I'd strongly suggest reading it (if you haven't already).
The moving assembly line will re-engineer just about the entire business focussed around that product.

It's also much more prone to being disrupted by problems/issues, but that's actually the point of it.
You HAVE to have disciplines that a non-moving line allow you to get away with.
Those disciplines are invariably beneficial to the business.

Great news for the 777 and Boeing  Smile

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leelaw
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RE: Boeing Begins Use Of 777 Moving Line Assembly

Thu Nov 09, 2006 9:27 pm

Boeing spurs 777 output
New system makes production toe the line

By JAMES WALLACE
P-I AEROSPACE REPORTER

...For now, a tug moves the 777 along a 275-foot line during final assembly. The tug, which has an optical sensor that follows a line on the floor, is attached to the front landing gear and pulls the plane forward about 1.6 inches per minute. The tug stops if there is a problem.

During this part of final assembly, mechanics install seats, overhead bins and other interior parts. In addition, functional testing is performed on various systems, and the two engines are installed.

Eventually, Boeing could be building the 777 at record rates. Boeing will not talk about the production rate for a specific jet, but the company is boosting production of the 777 to seven jets a month, according to people on the program. Boeing has studied the feasibility of raising rates even more, to perhaps 10 planes a month...


http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/291678_boeing09.html
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cobra27
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RE: Boeing Begins Use Of 777 Moving Line Assembly

Thu Nov 09, 2006 9:40 pm

Quoting Astuteman (Reply 23):
The moving assembly line imposes a discipline to the production process whose effect is felt right down the supply chain and back into design.

That is what I said.

Other benefits? Something from engineer's (not psychology of workers) maybe?
Or not?
 
astuteman
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RE: Boeing Begins Use Of 777 Moving Line Assembly

Thu Nov 09, 2006 10:19 pm

Quoting Cobra27 (Reply 25):
That is what I said.

For fear we have a misunderstanding, I believed you to have said that the moving line has "only psychological advantages for workers".

My words "discipline to the production process" mean just that - the process, not the workers.
All of the supporting functions will have to change the paradigms on which their systems and procedures are based, in order to support the moving line.
Which is a HUGE amount of work.

Yes, the workers will get a psychological advantage, but this usually originates from far more organised inputs to the production process removing the constraints/issues which usually frustrate the workers.

The removal of those constraints/issues is a REAL benefit, not just a PSYCHOLOGICAL one.  Smile

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ual747-600
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RE: Boeing Begins Use Of 777 Moving Line Assembly

Thu Nov 09, 2006 10:53 pm

With regards to monthly/anual deliveries see below.

Fair use excerpt from Seattle PI

Eventually, Boeing could be building the 777 at record rates. Boeing will not talk about the production rate for a specific jet, but the company is boosting production of the 777 to seven jets a month, according to people on the program. Boeing has studied the feasibility of raising rates even more, to perhaps 10 planes a month.

Through September, Boeing had a backlog of 261 of the jets left to build.

Industry analyst Bryon Callan of the Prudential Equity Group is forecasting that Boeing will deliver 77 of the 777s in 2007, 90 each in 2008-09 and 80 in 2010.

_____________________
Can you imagine what BCA's sales are going to be in 2010 when they deliver 80 ish 777's. 120 ish 787's, 15-20 747-8's and 360 737's. Is it too late to buy the stock?

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RE: Boeing Begins Use Of 777 Moving Line Assembly

Thu Nov 09, 2006 10:59 pm

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 14):
Quoting Revelation (Reply 4):
From 1.6 inches per minute to 2.0?

 rotfl As others noted, so true.

Indeed. In fact, the only way the overall production rate can increase is to do so. It's just not the answer I imagine the poster was after!  Smile

If I did my math (maths?) correctly, and I'm sure you'll correct me if i did not  Smile  Smile  Smile, 1.6 in/min is 64 feet in an 8 hour shift, and 2.0 in/min is 80 feet in an 8 hour shift, so the change would be noticable.

Quoting Astuteman (Reply 23):
(If you're ever bored, ask me what I learned about product re-engineering from watching the guys at Nissan, Sunderland, installing engines/transmissions in Bluebirds.. {Smile})

All I learned about production lines, I learned by watching Lucy and Ethel at the candy factory!  Smile

For those of you from other cultures, or too young not to know, or who don't have access to Nick at Night, I'm of course referring to a classic episode of "I Love Lucy"!  Smile

Quoting Cobra27 (Reply 22):
I think moving assembley line has only pyhcological advantages for workers, they get more into getting the job done.

If you have seen that famous episode, you know there is a limit to this principle.
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777MechSys
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RE: Boeing Begins Use Of 777 Moving Line Assembly

Thu Nov 09, 2006 11:20 pm

Quoting Beech19 (Reply 19):
I thought they were at 5 and talking about going to three. My informant must have been wrong.

No talk... 777 will be on a 3 day rate by the end of the year.
 
NYC777
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RE: Boeing Begins Use Of 777 Moving Line Assembly

Fri Nov 10, 2006 1:27 am

Quoting 777MechSys (Reply 29):
No talk... 777 will be on a 3 day rate by the end of the year.

So are you saying they'll be putting out 1 777 every three days? Is that what it means? If so, that's pretty damned good!!!
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beech19
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RE: Boeing Begins Use Of 777 Moving Line Assembly

Fri Nov 10, 2006 1:31 am

Quoting 777MechSys (Reply 29):
777 will be on a 3 day rate by the end of the year.

Good to hear. Then my "informant" was only half wrong. LOL

Whats crazy to think is pushing out both 777's and 787's at 3 days a peice! Thats a lot of heavy metal (err... plastic? doh!) moving each month.
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WestWing
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RE: Boeing Begins Use Of 777 Moving Line Assembly

Fri Nov 10, 2006 1:56 am

Just a quick request for clarification.

Quoting 777MechSys (Reply 29):
777 will be on a 3 day rate by the end of the year

According to earlier posts, Everett operates 24/7 and 777MechSys says they will achieve a 3-day rate for 777s by the end of 2006.

Quoting UAL747-600 (Reply 27):
...forecasting that Boeing will deliver 77 of the 777s in 2007, 90 each in 2008-09 and 80 in 2010.

So why are projected 2007 777 deliveries only at 77 when a 3-day rate should assemble > 100 ?

[Edited 2006-11-09 18:00:24]
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lightsaber
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RE: Boeing Begins Use Of 777 Moving Line Assembly

Fri Nov 10, 2006 3:28 am

Quoting Revelation (Reply 28):
If you have seen that famous episode, you know there is a limit to this principle.

But if you've read any history about mass production, you realize that unless you push the limit, the company is throwing away productivity. If Boeing can go from 1.6 to 2.0, that 25% more production. How many more workers? If the answer is zero, you've cut costs.

Ford was famous for being the first to do this and pushing it to the limit. They ran the model T line until the break point and then they would back off. But the final rate was over 60% faster than the initial rate. Thus why Ford could cut the price of the Model T and why it was the first automobile that assembly line workers could purchase for themselves.

BTW, I'm convinced much of the A320 cost advantage is due to the more modular assembly process. I'm a big fan of module construction. Build in place construction is too serial... that adds costs. So yes, I'm excited that the 787 is going to be produced more like a submarine (large section modules).  bigthumbsup  I'll differ to Astuteman on production efficiency.  Wink

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dz09
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RE: Boeing Begins Use Of 777 Moving Line Assembly

Fri Nov 10, 2006 3:46 am

what's that green stuff you see on airplanes during assembly. Is that an aluminum primer or some sort of protective plastic film?
 
beech19
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RE: Boeing Begins Use Of 777 Moving Line Assembly

Fri Nov 10, 2006 3:47 am

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 30):
So are you saying they'll be putting out 1 777 every three days? Is that what it means? If so, that's pretty damned good!!!

Yes, every 3 days (on average, weekend work isn't as quick) a 777 would leave the factory, dragged across Highway 526 and into one of the paint shops.  Wink

Its quite fun to park on the side of the road and watch them pull those monsters over the highway in the evening. Huge wings and motors hanging over the edge. The overpass they go across is only about 75ft wide total. Its crazy!
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NYC777
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RE: Boeing Begins Use Of 777 Moving Line Assembly

Fri Nov 10, 2006 3:59 am

Quoting Beech19 (Reply 35):
Yes, every 3 days (on average, weekend work isn't as quick) a 777 would leave the factory, dragged across Highway 526 and into one of the paint shops.

Wow then we're talking about 10 777/month. Have the suppliers already been turning out their pieces to support this rate? Seems like quite a bit.
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beech19
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RE: Boeing Begins Use Of 777 Moving Line Assembly

Fri Nov 10, 2006 4:06 am

Quoting DZ09 (Reply 34):
what's that green stuff you see on airplanes during assembly. Is that an aluminum primer or some sort of protective plastic film?

Plastic film. When you pull it all off and polish it up you get a AA aircraft.  Wink
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KELPkid
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RE: Boeing Begins Use Of 777 Moving Line Assembly

Fri Nov 10, 2006 5:18 am

Quoting DZ09 (Reply 34):
what's that green stuff you see on airplanes during assembly. Is that an aluminum primer or some sort of protective plastic film?

Yeppers, that would be primer...
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AirbusCanada
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RE: Boeing Begins Use Of 777 Moving Line Assembly

Fri Nov 10, 2006 6:31 am

here is an article comparing production process at airbus and boeing.

http://courses.washington.edu/samcrs/Howtheotherhalfbuilds.pdf
 
beech19
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RE: Boeing Begins Use Of 777 Moving Line Assembly

Fri Nov 10, 2006 6:45 am

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 38):
Yeppers, that would be primer...

No... The green is not a primer as i already mentioned. It is a plastic-based coating (film was the wrong word) that is on the metal peices that are assembled together. That is taken off with warm water (about 100F degrees.) by the paint crew just before they mask, prime and paint.

http://www.boeing.com/news/frontiers/archive/2003/november/i_ca1.html
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beech19
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RE: Boeing Begins Use Of 777 Moving Line Assembly

Fri Nov 10, 2006 6:48 am

This is the plastic protective coating...

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Nick Goodwin



This is primer...

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Nick Goodwin

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KELPkid
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RE: Boeing Begins Use Of 777 Moving Line Assembly

Fri Nov 10, 2006 6:57 am

Quoting Beech19 (Reply 41):
This is the plastic protective coating...

Ah, thanks for the correction. I never knew about the plastic before...and primer is quite green (just a lot more yellowish green than the plastic!).
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beech19
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RE: Boeing Begins Use Of 777 Moving Line Assembly

Fri Nov 10, 2006 7:05 am

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 42):
and primer is quite green (just a lot more yellowish green than the plastic!).

Yeah... the plastic is cool to see. Definitly not your average white plane jane airliner. (plastic green is how the BBJ's are delivered to the customer)

The primer just kinda makes ya want to puke... LOL
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toiletboy99999
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RE: Boeing Begins Use Of 777 Moving Line Assembly

Fri Nov 10, 2006 11:58 am

Quoting Theweave33 (Reply 20):
I'd love to hear the details. Is there anywhere on the web where one could find such descriptions?

Sorry, all of this was in a convo. i had with a Boeing Project Engr.
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astuteman
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RE: Boeing Begins Use Of 777 Moving Line Assembly

Fri Nov 10, 2006 5:27 pm

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 33):
I'm convinced much of the A320 cost advantage is due to the more modular assembly process.

Me too  Smile

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 33):
I'm a big fan of module construction.

Me too  Smile
It does ask a lot of the design community, though.  checkmark 

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 33):
I'll differ to Astuteman on production efficiency.

I genuinely hope that you meant "defer". I'd hate to "differ" with you on this subject  biggrin 

Regards