Bicoastal
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San Diego Voters Reject Airport Proposal

Thu Nov 09, 2006 3:05 am

San Diego county voters showed great wisdom and insight by rejecting yesterday Miramar as the site for a new airport. The vote wasn't even close. If people and businesses want a new airport, no one is forcing them to stay in San Diego. Move! It's too crowded here in San Diego anyway.
Airliners.net has many forums. It has spell check and search functions. Use them before posting!
 
Boeing7E7
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RE: San Diego Voters Reject Airport Proposal

Thu Nov 09, 2006 3:10 am

In 2012, the true insight will be revealed - actually sooner. Don't count your chickens.

The politicians showed no wisdom or foresight and the lemings followed.

37% support to close an active base at a time of war, with no political support what-so-ever? That's actually quite remarkable.

[Edited 2006-11-08 19:12:59]
 
LAXintl
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RE: San Diego Voters Reject Airport Proposal

Thu Nov 09, 2006 3:17 am

Not supsrising to see the 63 to 37 percent results considering wide local and even national political opposition to the proposal.

If there is anything good out of this, it will require government to pursue an all new facility option instead of the band-aid partial approach which the Miramar proposal was.

Here is an article
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/p...tics/20061108-9999-7n8airport.html
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
san747
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RE: San Diego Voters Reject Airport Proposal

Thu Nov 09, 2006 3:54 am

Wow... I can't believe the vote all of us San Diegans were waiting for since the 2002 (or so) has actually happened... and of course, the ignorant masses vote it down. I hope my grandfather voted pro-Miramar at least, I explained the advantages of it to him several times.

I couldn't vote because I'm not a resident of San Diego county, BTW. But at any rate, I don't know what's going to happen to my SAN now. This whole process is beginning to sadden me. All this political bullshit is preventing a real solution to be made for Lindbergh...

And no, we can't expand Lindbergh beyond a few more gates, and no, we can't send San Diegans to LA anymore once their 75 million pax cap goes into effect... Eventually, people have to realize that they must do something and look beyond their bullshit excuses...
Scotty doesn't know...
 
gunsontheroof
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RE: San Diego Voters Reject Airport Proposal

Thu Nov 09, 2006 3:59 am

Quoting Bicoastal (Thread starter):
San Diego county voters showed great wisdom and insight by rejecting yesterday Miramar as the site for a new airport. The vote wasn't even close. If people and businesses want a new airport, no one is forcing them to stay in San Diego. Move! It's too crowded here in San Diego anyway.

It's called democracy, deal with it. If the vote wasn't even close, I think it's pretty safe to say that Miramar isn't the answer San Diego voters are looking for.
 
Tom in NO
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RE: San Diego Voters Reject Airport Proposal

Thu Nov 09, 2006 4:08 am

Congratulations, San Diego voter, you just mortgaged your air transportation future with your politicians at the leinholder. The only worthwhile and immediately workable solution to SAN's issues was a move to Miramar. Land and access are both issues that were easily addressed there.

Btw, if and when your new airport gets built, and assuming the Camp Pendleton alternative will go away, when we come visit my brother and his family in northern San Diego County (San Marcos), we'll use ONT.

Tom at MSY
"The criminal ineptitude makes you furious"-Bruce Springsteen, after seeing firsthand the damage from Hurricane Katrina
 
slider
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RE: San Diego Voters Reject Airport Proposal

Thu Nov 09, 2006 4:10 am

I'm not terribly familiar with the issue, but from reading just that article, it sounds as if the issue wasn't fully explored, vetted, and planned out before launching as a ballot measure.
 
Boeing7E7
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RE: San Diego Voters Reject Airport Proposal

Thu Nov 09, 2006 4:18 am

Interesting Blog on Miramar "other uses"...

You have to scroll down:

http://patflannery.com/SanDiegoToday.htm

Prop. A - a regional airport or regional gridlock. 10/24/06

by Pat Flannery

Look at this picture. What do you see? San Diego's new Regional Airport?



Wrong - it will never happen. Because the Marines will never leave? Wrong again.

Take a look at two huge new residential projects already in play, colored blue opposite. Read what the San Diego City Planning Department has to say about:
Rancho Encantada and East Elliott.



Do you think maybe somebody is not telling us the whole truth here? The developers, City Planning and Development Services have a government/client relationship that is more privileged than attorney/client privilege.

Do you thing that maybe "somebody" has already colored in that area between the two blues? Encantada and Elliott? Personally I believe they have colored in the entire MCAS Miramar area and that that is what their opposition to Prop. A is really all about.

McMillin already owns Rancho Encantada. Read their Winter 2006 Newsletter. It tells a little about what is going on out there. Also the Catholic Bishop of San Diego must know something the rest of us do not. He is building a Catholic School out there.

The one thing we all know for certain is that as sure as the Navy left Miramar, the Marines will leave too. Located right in the heart of a busy metropolitan area it is totally unsuited to their mission. The next training accident will take care of that.

Pardee owns East Elliott. Do you think these two huge developers, McMillin and Pardee are not salivating over all that sweet MCAS land? They want the Marines to leave more than anybody. The last thing they want is a stupid regional airport eating up their precious developable land. That is why Jerry Sanders is not backing Prop. A. McMillin and Pardee made their preference clear to him - with their check books.

So, the North City voters do have a choice: a civilian airport or wall-to-wall housing and bumper-to-bumper traffic. The greater Miramar area could accommodate up to 250,000 people. It will be the last great urbanizing project for San Diego City.

On the other hand what would happen if Prop A. passes? It would be a giant pain in the rear for Sanders' and his developer friends. It would create this conditional land use restriction hanging over the whole North City area. The City Fathers would be constrained by a stupid promise to build a regional airport where thousands of McMillin and Pardee houses properly belong. Look what happened at Brown Field. Pardee took care of Ralph Inzunza and Ralph (with a little last minute help from Dick Murphy) took care of Pardee. Result: FedEx still flies out of Lindberg.

As far as McMillin, Pardee and Sanders are concerned, we already have a perfectly fine one-runway airport located in a convenient soup bowl between Mission Hills and Point Loma. The Lindberg acreage is tiny compared to Miramar. You couldn't even fit a decent shopping center on there let alone a few thousand houses. Lindberg is on tidelands. Between the Port Authority and the Coastal Commission any decent developer would move to Las Vegas rather than go through all that hassle.

So there you have it. That's my take on the airport issue. Vote for Prop A, it may give us some small bargaining chip against the developers and the 500,000 people they will cram in there. Maybe more. Have you seen the way they build these days? How many "city of villages" do you think they could cram into Miramar's 23,000 acres?

In the unlikely chance that Prop A would actually give us a civilian airport at Miramar, when (not if) the Marines leave, a civilian airport would be a lot less noisy than the present MCAS. But it would be a hell of a lot better than what McMillan and Pardee (aided and abetted by our developer-financed Development Services Department) would give us - 500,000 people and total gridlock. That's the real issue, not an airport.

As I said at the top of this blog: the airport will never happen. The developers will never allow an airport to interfere with their carpet development of North City. If you've got any better ideas for fighting density in North City I'd love to hear them.
 
Boeing7E7
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RE: San Diego Voters Reject Airport Proposal

Thu Nov 09, 2006 5:15 am

Got this in an e-mail:

Sanders was on KPBS this morning. His comment was he felt that timing was premature given the current military focus on Iraq. He wanted to approach the military first to get some acceptance before attempting another run at Miramar. He did indicate that he felt Lindbergh was not capable of sustaining us into the future, at least. Still, I'm not too impressed with his performance . . .
 
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lindy field
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RE: San Diego Voters Reject Airport Proposal

Thu Nov 09, 2006 5:27 am

I have to admit I would not be too surprised if Pat Flannery's theory that large-scale developers have their eyes on Miramar proved to be true. These guys have had the city's politicians in their pockets for a long time.

Time to dust off the plans to expand the facilities at Lindbergh. How long do you suppose it will be until work can get underway?
 
PanAm747
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RE: San Diego Voters Reject Airport Proposal

Thu Nov 09, 2006 5:35 am

Expand Lindbergh?

Not going to happen.

The land at the end of runway 27 was rebuilt into "Liberty Station". New houses and shops.

Expand it to the north? No. The Marine Corps Recruiting Depot is there. Even if the marines left, it is a historical site and can't be touched.

Lindbergh has no possibility of being expanded.

Neither does CLD, nor SNA, nor LGB, nor LAX (other than to its agreed upon capacity limit), nor BUR. In southern California, that leaves only ONT and PSP as being able to expand.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniont...ib/20061108/news_lz1ed8middle.html

Even the normally conservative San Diego newspaper bemoans the defeat.

Back in the 1970's, I remember traffic was showing signs of getting REALLY bad in Southern California. Morning and afternoon rush hours were getting very crowded, yet only minor additions and tweaks were being made to the region's road capacity. Thirty years later, we are approaching a state of insanity on our roads. The same is now happening with our airport capacity - no increase on capacity, ever. Let somebody else do it.

The voters have spoken. Now we will live with the consequences.
Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
 
LAXintl
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RE: San Diego Voters Reject Airport Proposal

Thu Nov 09, 2006 5:46 am

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 10):
The voters have spoken. Now we will live with the consequences.

Enjoy the conga line headed up the 5/405 to LAX!

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 10):
Thirty years later, we are approaching a state of insanity on our roads.

Good thing however CA voters however did approve the multi billion dollar transporation proposition and bond measures by a wide margin.

Hey, maybe San Diego will now get a high speed train connection straight to LAX one day??  Wink
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
ConjureMe
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RE: San Diego Voters Reject Airport Proposal

Thu Nov 09, 2006 6:19 am

All of you keep talking like you can just take away MCAS Miramar. WTF guys? This is the military we are talking about! If they don't want to leave, they ain't gonna. Civilians have absolutely no say in Miramar. It is beyond their control. Too big, too important to be left in the hands of local politicians.
Never let the plane take you somewhere your brain didn't get to five minutes ago.
 
koruman
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RE: San Diego Voters Reject Airport Proposal

Thu Nov 09, 2006 6:22 am

Pesonally, as a frequent overseas visitor, I must say that one of the best things about San Diego as a place to do business is just how close the airport is to the city. Similarly, SNA is far more convenient much of the time than LAX.

San Diego doesn't actually NEED to duplicate what LAX and SFO can offer long-haul. It's a far more attractive place to fly to and from BECAUSE the airport is a manageable size and an easy commute to the city.
 
LAXintl
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RE: San Diego Voters Reject Airport Proposal

Thu Nov 09, 2006 6:35 am

Quoting Koruman (Reply 13):
San Diego doesn't actually NEED to duplicate what LAX and SFO can offer long-haul. It's a far more attractive place to fly to and from BECAUSE the airport is a manageable size and an easy commute to the city.

True SAN might not need to duplicate SFO & LAX in the area of international services, however the limited airport capacity simply cannot sustain continued growth of the city.

As is over 20% of greater San Diego traveller either drive to other regional airports, or fly up the coast to LAX initially to make beyond connections due lack of air service options and fare competitiveness.

San Diego's economic development will over time choke due to the lack of accessibility.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
oakjam
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RE: San Diego Voters Reject Airport Proposal

Thu Nov 09, 2006 7:05 am

Well if SD voters did not want a new Airport, for other alternatives like flying to Asia, now AM offers NRT from TIJ. Soon MX will fly to China from TIJ, San Diegans can commute to TIJ for other flight options. Yes the border crossing is horrendous, but deal with it.

Here in the Bay Area we have the Bay Bridge which is just as bad as the border crossing, as well as other congested corridors. When you have congested corridors, use more time for your options wether it be by car or air. Allow for more time during your travels, this is what big city pains are like, if not not move somewhere else.
 
tootallsd
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RE: San Diego Voters Reject Airport Proposal

Thu Nov 09, 2006 9:09 am

Quoting ConjureMe (Reply 12):
This is the military we are talking about! If they don't want to leave, they ain't gonna.

Are you kidding ME? When did the US become a military dictatorship? The military will do as it is told when the right consensus is built. When the Navy moved to Fallon, the Marines should have never moved to Miramar. What did they spend to bring the base up to minimum standards, I recall $800 million or so.
 
2travel2know
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RE: San Diego Voters Reject Airport Proposal

Thu Nov 09, 2006 9:30 am

IMHO Some Mexican investors should try to buy a piece of land on the US side of TIJ so to build a U.S. Airport Terminal for TIJ airport, with its satellite and jetways on the Mexican side. Maybe such a solution would work best for San Diego international (but non-Mexican) flights and any U.S. LCC refusing to serve SAN.
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: San Diego Voters Reject Airport Proposal

Thu Nov 09, 2006 9:48 am

Quoting Tom in NO (Reply 5):
Congratulations, San Diego voter, you just mortgaged your air transportation future with your politicians at the leinholder. The only worthwhile and immediately workable solution to SAN's issues was a move to Miramar. Land and access are both issues that were easily addressed there.

I think alot of people on A.net who are upset at the outcome of the vote are acting like everyone thinks like us and should think like us. If the majority of the people in San Diego dont want a to adress the airport situation then they dont have to. That doesnt make it wrong. Thats the beauty of democracy. This is what San Diego wants as a whole. In certain circumstances we avaition nerds can be a minority.
It is what it is...
 
SANFan
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RE: San Diego Voters Reject Airport Proposal

Thu Nov 09, 2006 10:02 am

Quoting Boeing7E7 (Reply 7):
Interesting Blog on Miramar "other uses"...
You have to scroll down:
http://patflannery.com/SanDiegoToday.htm
Prop. A - a regional airport or regional gridlock. 10/24/06
by Pat Flannery

Judging by past events in SD and the incredible power of the mega-developers, I would not be the least bit surprised if Pat Flannery is 100% correct. Just look 80 miles north at what's happening with (former) El Toro USMCAS...

Another very sad day, another giant step backward, for the future of commercial aviation in So Cal.

bb
 
jacobin777
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RE: San Diego Voters Reject Airport Proposal

Thu Nov 09, 2006 10:53 am

Quoting Tootallsd (Reply 17):

Are you kidding ME? When did the US become a military dictatorship?

I say boot everyone off from North Island NAS and build a nice airport there.. stirthepot 
"Up the Irons!"
 
LAXintl
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RE: San Diego Voters Reject Airport Proposal

Thu Nov 09, 2006 11:00 am

Quoting SANFan (Reply 20):
Just look 80 miles north at what's happening with (former) El Toro USMCAS...

Indeed, drove by the El Toro area a few weeks back.

The near 4000 acre area was purchased by developers and will see 20,000 (yes 20,000) new homes, apartments and condo units built over the next 3 years making it the largest redevelopment project in OC history. Along with residential units plans call for golf courses, several shopping centers, high-tech office park, and a large park area already known as the "Great Park".

This follows the current redevelopment of the former Tustin MCAS which itself has sprouted some 2,000 residences.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
Boeing7E7
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RE: San Diego Voters Reject Airport Proposal

Thu Nov 09, 2006 11:43 am

Quoting ConjureMe (Reply 12):
All of you keep talking like you can just take away MCAS Miramar. WTF guys? This is the military we are talking about! If they don't want to leave, they ain't gonna. Civilians have absolutely no say in Miramar. It is beyond their control. Too big, too important to be left in the hands of local politicians.

Miramar is a gas station. And no, I'm not kidding.

Miramar got so played up on this issue, you'd think it was the only base left in the United States.

Sorry to be harsh, but the Marines flat out lied to people, and they will pay the price in the next couple of years for it. You think people aren't going to keep tabs on their assertions? Ha!

I can hear the lines now:

"Well, we thought we'd be able to base 50 Joint Strike Fighters here, but in the end we couldn't and Yuma was a better option (reality check here peeps. There are 40 Harriers at Yuma today and 50 JSF's headed to the west. If you think they're going to base just 10 of them at Miramar and 40 at Yuma, you're smoking the same crack San Diego voters were yesterday)"

"We wanted to be able to base 70 Ospreys there, but ultimately we couldn't. Now we have a cost problem making Miramar less economically viable then it was in 2006. You guys want to do joint use? If not we have to close Miramar"

What should San Diego's answer be when this occurs:

Pack your shit!
 
hawaiian717
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RE: San Diego Voters Reject Airport Proposal

Thu Nov 09, 2006 2:21 pm

Remember this vote is non-binding. When is the next BRAC?
 
Boeing7E7
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RE: San Diego Voters Reject Airport Proposal

Thu Nov 09, 2006 2:32 pm

Quoting Hawaiian717 (Reply 24):
Remember this vote is non-binding. When is the next BRAC?

2013
 
hockey55dude
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RE: San Diego Voters Reject Airport Proposal

Thu Nov 09, 2006 2:39 pm

I was Sooo MAD!!! I can't vote yet but I'm pretty mad. When My dad and I fly to Canada and even to the east-coast we mostly go out of LAX.(Most of time cheaper and better flight times.) I hope San Diego can get a new airport some time in the near future.  Confused
 
redflyer
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RE: San Diego Voters Reject Airport Proposal

Thu Nov 09, 2006 3:37 pm

I seem to remember some clown last year about this time on A.net claiming that Miramar is it and the voters will finally pass this. Yes, I recall very specifically someone so obnoxiously claimed that the airport board had selected Miramar and...

"Voters will pass it in November of 2006"

I wonder who that could've been that was so sure Miramar was defintiely going forward as the new SAN airport and even the Sierra Club was on board?

 wave 
My other home is a Piper Cherokee 180C
 
Boeing7E7
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RE: San Diego Voters Reject Airport Proposal

Thu Nov 09, 2006 4:06 pm

Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 27):
seem to remember some clown last year about this time on A.net claiming that Miramar is it and the voters will finally pass this. Yes, I recall very specifically someone so obnoxiously claimed that the airport board had selected Miramar and...

"Voters will pass it in November of 2006"

I wonder who that could've been that was so sure Miramar was defintiely going forward as the new SAN airport and even the Sierra Club was on board?


How is it there in commie land? Oh wait, your dictator just got bitch slapped in front of the global arena. You think that won't have an affect on Miramar's future, or should I say lack of a future as a military installation? You don't even realize what just happened do you? You see, getting a base requires a foundation, in this case a foundation of military lies to benchmark a future coupled with the right political environment which was just created. The military showed its hand in its effort to save Miramar “at all cost” and was forced to lay out "an alleged" future to convince the ignorant masses. When that bullshit future doesn't show up, the Marines are finished at Miramar. What is it???

Oh yes…

Win the war, not the battle...


The intent was to get Miramar in the next BRAC. In the words of the great leader of the allegedly free world: "Mission Accomplished"

[Edited 2006-11-09 08:30:38]
 
grantcv
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RE: San Diego Voters Reject Airport Proposal

Thu Nov 09, 2006 4:25 pm

I think it would have been better if the voters had to select a site rather than say yes/no to Miramar. And "none of the above" could not be an answer. There simply is no other cost-effective location available in San Diego for a new airport. And San Diego needs a new airport - the current one is disgraceful for a city the size of San Diego.
 
redflyer
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RE: San Diego Voters Reject Airport Proposal

Thu Nov 09, 2006 11:02 pm

Quoting Boeing7E7 (Reply 28):

 cry 
My other home is a Piper Cherokee 180C
 
PVD757
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RE: San Diego Voters Reject Airport Proposal

Thu Nov 09, 2006 11:29 pm

is the non 'drop-off' end at CLD landlocked by development - I can't remember. Dragged the family there after we went to Lego Land and thought it was a nice airport, but underused. I remember the big drop-off to the west (and the south too????) end of the field, but can't remember what was to the east or north...
 
leothedog
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RE: San Diego Voters Reject Airport Proposal

Fri Nov 10, 2006 12:08 am

Quoting Bicoastal (Thread starter):
San Diego county voters showed great wisdom and insight by rejecting yesterday Miramar as the site for a new airport. The vote wasn't even close. If people and businesses want a new airport, no one is forcing them to stay in San Diego. Move! It's too crowded here in San Diego anyway.

I lived in SD for five years in the early 80's. There was a popular bumper sticker I would see on a lot of cars:

Welcome to San Diego. Now go home.
I've got things to see and people to do.
 
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lightsaber
Crew
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RE: San Diego Voters Reject Airport Proposal

Fri Nov 10, 2006 12:14 am

First, I supported this proposal. But Democracy have voted an there is an answer.

Quoting San747 (Reply 3):

And no, we can't expand Lindbergh beyond a few more gates, and no, we can't send San Diegans to LA anymore once their 75 million pax cap goes into effect...

San Diego is going to feel it and quick. When that 75 million pax cap goes into effect at LAX, it will overnight delta the airfares a la SNA when it hits its caps. There is one and only one way to control pax flow: prices. Well, that and TSA lines.  Wink

Quoting Bicoastal (Thread starter):
If people and businesses want a new airport, no one is forcing them to stay in San Diego. Move! It's too crowded here in San Diego anyway.

San Diego could be in trouble economically anyway. The home prices are beyound salaries. Actually, from what I'm reading, home prices are dropping $1,000/day down there. I cannot believe that bubble. Here in LA rumors are going through work about relocating a division. Will it happen? I don't know. But we cannot hire experienced people anymore; homes cost too much. Maybe aerospace engineering is like meatpacking in NewYork, just not a high enough margin business to stick around. Cest la vie.

Lightsaber
"They did not know it was impossible, so they did it!" - Mark Twain
 
LMP737
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RE: San Diego Voters Reject Airport Proposal

Fri Nov 10, 2006 12:23 am

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 33):
San Diego could be in trouble economically anyway. The home prices are beyound salaries. Actually, from what I'm reading, home prices are dropping $1,000/day down there. I cannot believe that bubble. Here in LA rumors are going through work about relocating a division. Will it happen? I don't know. But we cannot hire experienced people anymore; homes cost too much. Maybe aerospace engineering is like meatpacking in NewYork, just not a high enough margin business to stick around. Cest la vie.

As much as I enjoyed living in SoCal the cost of living was so out of control that when the opportunity arrose I moved out. That's one problem the airlines have in Southern California. In good times they hire people on at places like LAX and SAN. However when the probationary period is over they leave and the airline has to go through the expense of hiring more people.

That's going to be the biggest challenge facing Southern California. Not new airports or new runways at existing airports. When the median price of a single family home is unobtainable by the average person it's going to have a big ripple affect.

[Edited 2006-11-09 16:39:22]
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
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lightsaber
Crew
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RE: San Diego Voters Reject Airport Proposal

Fri Nov 10, 2006 2:18 am

Quoting LMP737 (Reply 34):
When the median price of a single family home is unobtainable by the average person it's going to have a big ripple affect.

Yep. Its happened before. Prices drop to 5X or 6X median wage and the cycle starts again. Cest la vie. This time, I might not be in state for the bottom. Ok, I accept that. Oh, prices are at 11.2 times median wage... so there is a long way to fall...

But SAN does need a new airport. Just where? I started arguments by proposing Pendleton.  duck  But the more I thought about that, the less it works. They'll have to pick another site. Miramar worked for up to 4 runways...

Maybe we'll just have to ration LAX tickets.  Wink Actually, I'm such an economic bear right now (due to real estate) that maybe they'll be building SAN2 as a jobs program... (I hope I'm wrong on the economy).

Lightsaber
"They did not know it was impossible, so they did it!" - Mark Twain
 
Boeing7E7
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RE: San Diego Voters Reject Airport Proposal

Fri Nov 10, 2006 2:21 am

Quoting PVD757 (Reply 31):
is the non 'drop-off' end at CLD landlocked by development - I can't remember. Dragged the family there after we went to Lego Land and thought it was a nice airport, but underused. I remember the big drop-off to the west (and the south too????) end of the field, but can't remember what was to the east or north...

Yes. A plane went off the end last year and ran into a building at the bottom of the hill. All the open spaces around all of the airports in San Diego has been sold to the highest bidder by the City and/or County, except of course Miramar.

Quoting LMP737 (Reply 34):
As much as I enjoyed living in SoCal the cost of living was so out of control that when the opportunity arrose I moved out. That's one problem the airlines have in Southern California. In good times they hire people on at places like LAX and SAN. However when the probationary period is over they leave and the airline has to go through the expense of hiring more people.

Yet the military paying the incredibly high cost of living allowances for all those Marines at Miramar somehow makes sense. Sometimes things just don't add up. Lets be real here for a split second:

Maybe if there was less of this:

E-5 Pay (10 YOS):

Location: San Diego Yuma

E-5/10 $2,496.60 $2,496.60
BAS $272.26 $272.26
BAH: $1,262.00 $718.00
Total: $4,030.86 $3,486.86


Salary in Yuma AZ: $3,486.86
Comparable salary in San Diego CA: $5,026.54

If you move from Yuma AZ to San Diego CA...

Groceries will cost: 10.231% more
Housing will cost: 145.021% more
Utilities will cost: 20.974% less
Transportation will cost: 0.953% more
Healthcare will cost: 18.395% more

Salary in San Diego CA: $4,030.86
Comparable salary in Yuma AZ: $2,796.17

If you move from San Diego CA to Yuma AZ...

Groceries will cost: 9.281% less
Housing will cost: 59.187% less
Utilities will cost: 26.541% more
Transportation will cost: 0.944% less
Healthcare will cost: 15.537% less


Then there would be less of this:

http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20061013/news_7m13bread.html

Marines in San Diego come up $1000 a month shorter in equivalent dollars than Marines in Yuma.

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 35):
I started arguments by proposing Pendleton

Eh. Would have had the same result. They love that LA buffer.

[Edited 2006-11-09 19:00:57]
 
SANMAN66
Posts: 556
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2006 1:37 pm

RE: San Diego Voters Reject Airport Proposal

Fri Nov 10, 2006 2:26 am

Quoting Leothedog (Reply 32):
Welcome to San Diego. Now go home.

San Diegans cannot have it both ways. Regardless, people are going to continue to relocate here.Just prior to the "Welcome to SD,now go home"
bumper stickers,in the late 70's they said "Stop the Los Angelization of
San Diego".It's too late for that.A lot of local politicians still half view SD
as being a quaint little "one horse town" and will try everything to keep it
like that,to include opposing every new airport proposal that comes to the table.Many San Diegans need to wake up and start accomodating the growth
and realize that this isn't the little bitty town they once remembered 50 years
ago!The only possible way to stop the growth a little bit is to change the weather,and none of us has control over that!
PSA Gives you a lift!
 
SANMAN66
Posts: 556
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2006 1:37 pm

RE: San Diego Voters Reject Airport Proposal

Fri Nov 10, 2006 2:55 am

As I said in a couple previous posts, politicians and many SD residents waste
way too much energy fighting,scratching,and crying to stop a new airport in this area,but never come up with any alternate plan,I MEAN A GOOD PLAN!
Now since Prop.A was rejected,it's very quiet in "Dago".At least the Airport Authority is now trying to come up with a way to expand Lindbergh by a few gates,which isn't enough in the long term. La Jolla and the surrounding communities are congratulating themselves because they saved Miramar,but is anybody exploring any other ideas? No! because they all feel as if it's not their problem! It is never anyone's problem until it affects them personally!
this is a lousy approach to any problem. My guess is that they will again look to the desert for a new airport,but chances are somebody out in the desert will scream and cry over that idea too!
PSA Gives you a lift!
 
scramjetter
Posts: 58
Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2006 2:57 am

RE: San Diego Voters Reject Airport Proposal

Fri Nov 10, 2006 2:56 am

These arguments will be played out at Luke AFB in Arizona, in 20 years when the F-16s phase out. Development is exploding and KLUF will be in the middle of the city.
 
Boeing7E7
Posts: 5512
Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2004 9:35 pm

RE: San Diego Voters Reject Airport Proposal

Fri Nov 10, 2006 3:02 am

Quoting Scramjetter (Reply 39):
These arguments will be played out at Luke AFB in Arizona, in 20 years when the F-16s phase out. Development is exploding and KLUF will be in the middle of the city.

They have flat land though and 99% VFR weather. San Diego doesn't.

Word is DM is Tucson will be getting the JSF (conventional as a 16 replacement and a handful of STVOLs for the A-10's, just like Yuma. Nice logistics savings there. Same bird, same training ranges.

[Edited 2006-11-09 19:04:10]
 
bphendri
Posts: 136
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2006 3:18 am

RE: San Diego Voters Reject Airport Proposal

Fri Nov 10, 2006 3:19 am

Quoting Koruman (Reply 13):
San Diego doesn't actually NEED to duplicate what LAX and SFO can offer long-haul. It's a far more attractive place to fly to and from BECAUSE the airport is a manageable size and an easy commute to the city.

As a resident of San Diego that was born and raised here, I agree 100%!

I like our airport just the way it is (10 minutes) from my house!

San Diego is way over crowded as it is, we don't need a flippin bigger airport!

Welcome to my respected users list!!
 
SANMAN66
Posts: 556
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2006 1:37 pm

RE: San Diego Voters Reject Airport Proposal

Fri Nov 10, 2006 3:20 am

Quoting Grantcv (Reply 29):
I think it would have been better if the voters had to select a site rather than say yes/no to Miramar. And "none of the above" could not be an answer.

My point exactly! This approach could have been a way to break the 50 year old stalemate,which appears to be destined to live another 50 years!
 old 
PSA Gives you a lift!
 
LMP737
Posts: 4800
Joined: Wed May 08, 2002 4:06 pm

RE: San Diego Voters Reject Airport Proposal

Fri Nov 10, 2006 3:32 am

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 35):
Yep. Its happened before. Prices drop to 5X or 6X median wage and the cycle starts again. Cest la vie. This time, I might not be in state for the bottom. Ok, I accept that. Oh, prices are at 11.2 times median wage... so there is a long way to fall...

When I was still living out there a friend from the mid west moved to San Diego. I tried to clue him in on what he was in for. He thought it was going to be one big adventure. And it was for awhile. Until he realized that he could barely afford a one bedroom loft condo. Eventually he threw in the towel and moved back east.

Quoting Bphendri (Reply 41):
San Diego is way over crowded as it is, we don't need a flippin bigger airport!

When I lived there, late eighties early nineties a big concern in San Diego was SD becoming another Los Angeles. Guess this is still the case.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
Boeing7E7
Posts: 5512
Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2004 9:35 pm

RE: San Diego Voters Reject Airport Proposal

Fri Nov 10, 2006 3:40 am

Quoting Bphendri (Reply 41):
San Diego is way over crowded as it is, we don't need a flippin bigger airport!

Oh the naive. Yes Yes.. People will stop coming and visitng and flying and San Diego will return to a sleepy little Navy town south of LA. Wake up man.
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 4431
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

RE: San Diego Voters Reject Airport Proposal

Fri Nov 10, 2006 3:48 am

Oh well, the issue is a moot point because San Diego decided they dont want a bigger airport.
It is what it is...
 
LAXintl
Posts: 20183
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: San Diego Voters Reject Airport Proposal

Fri Nov 10, 2006 3:52 am

Regretfully, the citizens of San Diego wont wake up until the day comes airlines start charging significant fare premiums simply due to the excessive demand resultant from the of lack of capacity at Lindbergh. This will not only hurt the average citizens trying to catch a flight, however will also economically hurt the areas tourism and convention industries as seats become ever scarcer.

As is, as people have posted here, a good percentage of SAN flyer's flee Northward to LA area airports due to greater flight and fare options.
I've seen a study that states a little over 20% of the San Diego regions overall passenger demand is handled in reality by airports other than Lindbergh already.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
davestanKSAN
Posts: 1532
Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2005 3:32 pm

RE: San Diego Voters Reject Airport Proposal

Fri Nov 10, 2006 4:02 am

Quoting Tom in NO (Reply 5):



Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 10):
The voters have spoken. Now we will live with the consequences.

   Sums it all up right there.

SAN is a beautiful airport. I love everything about it. Sadly, I fear it just about has reached its capacity. There are upcoming plans (SANFan posted a .pdf to new expansions at SAN, sorry I can't find the link) for more gates in T2, and more remote parking spots for RON a/c, along with new pax car parking. It will just delay the inevitable IMO.

To have this Proposition on the ballot during a time of War was really bad timing. Even though the measures for prop A wouldn't take effect immediately, people don't want to mix commercial aviation with military ops.

This is what is so hard about this issue. San Diego has always had a strong military presence. That's a major part of this city's history. Some people might think it would disrespect our brave Servicemen and Women stationed at MCAS Miramar and around the county to have commercial ops at Miramar. It's imperative that they have all necessary resources to train for combat, and also be able to have comfort while here in San Diego.

Along with the NIMBY's   the above reason is IMO why Prop A didn't pass. However for the future of our city I hope an agreement is reached ASAP.

Dave

[Edited 2006-11-09 20:03:34]
Yesterday we've sinned, today we move towards God. Touch the sky....love and respect...Safe Star!
 
steeler83
Posts: 7391
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 2:06 pm

RE: San Diego Voters Reject Airport Proposal

Fri Nov 10, 2006 4:05 am

Ok... What I have read in this thread is simply this:

The new airport facility was voted "no" simply because it is not needed, as well as due to residential opposition. I hope that when the time comes, and when San Diego needs a new facility, the local voters there will recognize this and support it, and not have the NIMBY mentality, "what's in it for me" garbage.

I read that Moon TWP (PIT) dissed a proposal for a larger cargo facility a while back there. I guess they're not for anything that could have a massive positive economic impact and generate growth. No wonder why that area isn't growing  sarcastic 

Anyway, any new facility can have a big economic impact on the surrounding region, but if there was no need (now) and if the voters saw this as a possible waste of money, then good for them...
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: San Diego Voters Reject Airport Proposal

Fri Nov 10, 2006 5:04 am

I think its time for the carriers to jack up their fares by 50% to show the locals a taste of things to come.. stirthepot 
"Up the Irons!"
 
boysteve
Posts: 885
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2004 7:02 am

RE: San Diego Voters Reject Airport Proposal

Fri Nov 10, 2006 5:31 am

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 48):
The new airport facility was voted "no" simply because it is not needed, as well as due to residential opposition. I hope that when the time comes, and when San Diego needs a new facility, the local voters there will recognize this and support it, and not have the NIMBY mentality, "what's in it for me" garbage

Everyone needs to realise that new airports are not built overnight. Several replies in this thread seem to suggest that San Diego doesn't need a new airport yet and that influenced opposition votes. Surely the issue is will San Diego need a new airport in 10 or 15 years time? If so we better vote yes to something soon!

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