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Vasu
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Big Planes With Small Economy Sections!

Fri Nov 10, 2006 9:15 am

I was looking at BA's seatmaps on seatguru and noticed that on its long haul fleet has really small economy class sections in comparison to the size of the aircraft itself!

Must be because of all the high-yield passengers they can attract!

Anyway... what other aircraft have very small economy class sections for their size?
 
planetime
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RE: Big Planes With Small Economy Sections!

Fri Nov 10, 2006 9:18 am

Quoting Vasu (Thread starter):
I was looking at BA's seatmaps on seatguru and noticed that on its long haul fleet has really small economy class sections in comparison to the size of the aircraft itself!

Must be because of all the high-yield passengers they can attract!

Anyway... what other aircraft have very small economy class sections for their size?

Hi Vasu,

Well BA specially on thier hourly flights to New york has small economy sections because of the premium traffic they attract. 744's and 777 both have small economy sections specially to business capitals. But BA does fly their normal 744's also to JFK in one of their many flights over there. Besides its frequency that matters on this route.
 
coerj
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RE: Big Planes With Small Economy Sections!

Fri Nov 10, 2006 11:55 am

Singapore A345s

THAI A345

ANA 777
 
deltagator
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RE: Big Planes With Small Economy Sections!

Fri Nov 10, 2006 12:36 pm

Quoting COERJ (Reply 2):
Singapore A345s

THAI A345

I wouldn't consider those so small but a niche based on the ultra-longhaul flights they do. It would be crual and unusual punishment or a violation of the Geneva Convention to house people in normal Steerage for 18+ hours.
"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
 
jumboforever
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RE: Big Planes With Small Economy Sections!

Fri Nov 10, 2006 6:06 pm

As said before, NH's 773ER are configured with 8F/77C/24Y+/138Y. When you look at the seat map Y represents less that half of the floor space.

The newest 772ER have 70C/36Y+/117Y

As for JL, they have 744 with 91C ! Cattle business class.

Regards,

JumboForever
 
AlanUK
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RE: Big Planes With Small Economy Sections!

Fri Nov 10, 2006 6:54 pm

Quoting JumboForever (Reply 4):
As said before, NH's 773ER are configured with 8F/77C/24Y+/138Y. When you look at the seat map Y represents less that half of the floor space.

On BA's 777-200ERs, World Traveller (economy) represents less than 1/3rd of floorspace of the aircraft!
 
Rj111
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RE: Big Planes With Small Economy Sections!

Fri Nov 10, 2006 7:53 pm

CO's 762ERs.

Not a huge plane mind you.
 
Foxy
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RE: Big Planes With Small Economy Sections!

Fri Nov 10, 2006 8:27 pm

I remember being shocked just how small the economy section was when i travelled on a BA 777
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: Big Planes With Small Economy Sections!

Fri Nov 10, 2006 8:37 pm

Quoting JumboForever (Reply 4):
As said before, NH's 773ER are configured with 8F/77C/24Y+/138Y. When you look at the seat map Y represents less that half of the floor space.

SQ's 77Ws will have a similarly small number of Y seats as well, though I'm not sure of the exact number (147?).
Of course F and C seats and cabins are getting bigger by the minute, but it's still weird to see a plane licensed for over 450 seats in a pure Y layout with only 1/3 of it.
 
ManchesterMAN
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RE: Big Planes With Small Economy Sections!

Fri Nov 10, 2006 11:14 pm

The Y seaction of United's PS aircraft is pretty small too.
Flown: A300,A319,A320,A321,A330,A340.A380,717,727,737,747,757,767,777,DC9,DC10,MD11,MD80,F100,F50,ERJ,E190,CRJ,BAe146,Da
 
UALMMFlyer
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RE: Big Planes With Small Economy Sections!

Sat Nov 11, 2006 2:11 am

Pre 2001, UA operated 744OP and 742SP with bigger first class (35/36 seats), business class ( 130+ seats), and a smaller Y section ( 120 seats roughly). The numbers of the seats in each cabin are not exact, but in terms of areas occupied inside the plane, Y was the smallest section.
Treat others like you'd like to be treated!
 
skyhigh777
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RE: Big Planes With Small Economy Sections!

Sat Nov 11, 2006 2:19 am

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 3):
I wouldn't consider those so small but a niche based on the ultra-longhaul flights they do. It would be crual and unusual punishment or a violation of the Geneva Convention to house people in normal Steerage for 18+ hours.

Ya right, I had to endure that from IAD-JNB on SAA....nearly killed myself in flight!
Prepare for take-off.
 
787A380
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RE: Big Planes With Small Economy Sections!

Sat Nov 11, 2006 2:29 am

I remember travelling on a BA 777 from london to Muscat and there was a really small economy section, and a massive club world, there must have been over 60 seats in the Club World cabin. There was a maximum of 15 rows in economy!
 
aviationfreak
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RE: Big Planes With Small Economy Sections!

Sat Nov 11, 2006 2:38 am

I find RG 346 economy section relatively small if you look at the premium and business section.
I love both Airbus and Boeing as much as I love aviation!
 
spacecadet
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RE: Big Planes With Small Economy Sections!

Sat Nov 11, 2006 2:43 am

http://www.japanair.com/e/aboutjal/seating.php

Click the K05 or L04 configuration (they're similar). I flew on one of these JFK-NRT a few weeks ago. It was a little strange. It looks even more dramatic in person; the economy section really looks tiny. We were actually in row 51, and it was really strange seeing like 4 different sections of business class stretching in front of us on takeoff and landing (they had the curtain closed the rest of the time).
I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
 
ZRHnerd
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RE: Big Planes With Small Economy Sections!

Sat Nov 11, 2006 2:45 am

Not a big plane, mind you, but LX's A319s accomodate 75 C class seats and only 35 in Y. Quite a number.

[Edited 2006-11-10 18:47:53]
 
workhorse
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RE: Big Planes With Small Economy Sections!

Sat Nov 11, 2006 3:37 am

Quoting ZRHnerd (Reply 15):
Not a big plane, mind you, but LX's A319s accomodate 75 C class seats and only 35 in Y. Quite a number.

Yes, but those are "convertible" economy-business seats, aren't they?

That means, they are able to accomodate up to 75 business (and thus reduce economy to 35), but if they don't, they convert most of those C seats in Y.

BTW, does anybody know if LX is going to install new seats (like in A320) on their 319s and 321s as well?

[Edited 2006-11-10 19:38:49]
 
Jammin
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RE: Big Planes With Small Economy Sections!

Sat Nov 11, 2006 3:51 am

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 3):
It would be crual and unusual punishment or a violation of the Geneva Convention to house people in normal Steerage for 18+ hours.

True, true. Maybe there should be a rule that 17+ hr flights should have an expanded economy section at the minimum. But, there's quite a few routes creeping up to that limit with regular economy: CX's LAX-HKG (14.5 hrs, did that in cattle class and biz, flight wasn't bad up front), all the Indian non-stops from the US, the US-Australia flights, US-South Africa flight... How cruel are these airlines?  biggrin 
Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery. None but ourselves can free our mind.
 
tommybp251b
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RE: Big Planes With Small Economy Sections!

Sat Nov 11, 2006 3:58 am

Quoting Aviationfreak (Reply 13):
I find RG 346 economy section relatively small if you look at the premium and business section.

Did we all miss something with Varig owning A 340-600? Or how did you mean it?

Regards Tom
Tom from Cologne
 
dambuster
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RE: Big Planes With Small Economy Sections!

Sat Nov 11, 2006 4:45 am

LX is poo anyway, for me it's no longer the national carrier... it's LH property, if LH wants, they install the new type of seats.
 
ZRHnerd
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RE: Big Planes With Small Economy Sections!

Sat Nov 11, 2006 5:05 am

Quoting Workhorse (Reply 16):
Yes, but those are "convertible" economy-business seats, aren't they?

correct.

Quoting Workhorse (Reply 16):
does anybody know if LX is going to install new seats (like in A320) on their 319s and 321s as well?

yes, they will, if not either of the two types have them already.

Quoting Dambuster (Reply 19):
LX is poo anyway, for me it's no longer the national carrier... it's LH property, if LH wants, they install the new type of seats.

What an intelligent post, thansk for your thoughtful contribution.  Yeah sure

[Edited 2006-11-10 21:07:02]
 
LHR777
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RE: Big Planes With Small Economy Sections!

Sat Nov 11, 2006 5:16 am

Quoting 787A380 (Reply 12):
I remember travelling on a BA 777 from london to Muscat and there was a really small economy section, and a massive club world, there must have been over 60 seats in the Club World cabin. There was a maximum of 15 rows in economy!

A 4-class BA 777-200ER has 48 Club World seats and 122 World Traveller seats. There are also 24 World Traveller Plus seats, as well as either 15 or 16 First Class seats.
 
speedbirdcrew
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RE: Big Planes With Small Economy Sections!

Sat Nov 11, 2006 5:22 am

Quoting LHR777 (Reply 21):
A 4-class BA 777-200ER has 48 Club World seats and 122 World Traveller seats. There are also 24 World Traveller Plus seats, as well as either 15 or 16 First Class seats.

I think its 40 in WTP and 14 in First.
 
KLM685
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RE: Big Planes With Small Economy Sections!

Sat Nov 11, 2006 5:37 am

Quoting Aviationfreak (Reply 13):
I find RG 346 economy section relatively small if you look at the premium and business section.

Varig has no A346... if that's what you meant. But some of Varig's 777 come from BA ( PP-VRC) and they have the small Economy section, the massive Business and a normal First...

This is a pic I took from the back of Economy section:



MyAviation.net photo:
Click here for bigger photo!
Photo © Alonso Pérez Treviño




Less than 25 economy rows.

Cheers!
KLM- The Best Airline in the World!
 
RIXrat
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RE: Big Planes With Small Economy Sections!

Sat Nov 11, 2006 5:39 am

I can see being sardined on a 12-14 hour flight in economy and feeling worse for wear at the end of my journey.

However, many European airlines don't have fixed business class seating anymore. All they do is move the partition forward and backward depending on the C load.

On a 2-3 hour flight I think it is ridiculous to pay extra money when the seat with and pitch is the same except that you get a warm sandwich instead of a cold one.
 
roseflyer
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RE: Big Planes With Small Economy Sections!

Sat Nov 11, 2006 5:52 am

Quoting UALMMFlyer (Reply 10):
Pre 2001, UA operated 744OP and 742SP with bigger first class (35/36 seats), business class ( 130+ seats), and a smaller Y section ( 120 seats roughly). The numbers of the seats in each cabin are not exact, but in terms of areas occupied inside the plane, Y was the smallest section.

I believe that United operated 747-200s between JFK and NRT that had more business class seats than economy seats. This also helped avoid payload restrictions on this premium route. I've heard that the 747-200 was a stretch for this route, but it catered to a very premium crowd. Those were back in the days of 45-50 inch pitch in business class and 60 inch pitch in first class.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
GBOAC
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RE: Big Planes With Small Economy Sections!

Sat Nov 11, 2006 6:20 am

Quoting Speedbirdcrew (Reply 22):
I think its 40 in WTP and 14 in First.

Most 4-class BA 772s have 48J (Rows 10-15) and 14F. There are 3 (IIRC) 'A Market' 772s with 17F seats - for shorter-range, higher yield routes (think Middle East and sometimes JFK). Sadly (for high yield planes), they have the pathetic 12-channel, small-screen IFE  Sad
 
AsstChiefMark
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RE: Big Planes With Small Economy Sections!

Sat Nov 11, 2006 6:33 am


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Jeremy Irish - V1 Aviation Photography



Mark  Wink
Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Damned MSP...Red tail...Red tail
 
LHR777
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RE: Big Planes With Small Economy Sections!

Sat Nov 11, 2006 7:12 am

Quoting Speedbirdcrew (Reply 22):
I think its 40 in WTP and 14 in First.

Sorry, yes, my mistake. 14F, 48J, 40W and 122M. The A-market aircraft do have 17F. These are G-ZZZA/ZB/ZC.

FYI, there are 30W and 177M seats on the hi-J 747-436, and 36W/272 or 273M seats on the low-J 747-436.

The 3 x 772A's do mostly middle-east and East Coast North America, including JFK and YYZ.
 
dambuster
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RE: Big Planes With Small Economy Sections!

Sat Nov 11, 2006 8:05 am

Quoting ZRHnerd (Reply 20):
What an intelligent post, thansk for your thoughtful contribution.

Yours must be better... let's face it, do you sincerely think LX are great with their policies?!
IMO, it's nice, but as a Swiss I no longer believe my country has a national carrier. Now I do not want to start something that has nothing to do with the topic but if you want we could do it...
 
vegas005
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RE: Big Planes With Small Economy Sections!

Sat Nov 11, 2006 8:17 am

Quoting Dambuster (Reply 29):
Quoting ZRHnerd (Reply 20):
What an intelligent post, thansk for your thoughtful contribution.

Yours must be better... let's face it, do you sincerely think LX are great with their policies?!
IMO, it's nice, but as a Swiss I no longer believe my country has a national carrier. Now I do not want to start something that has nothing to do with the topic but if you want we could do it...

Agreed. I love the LX (LH) 8 kilo carry on bag limit, my darn bag is 4 kilos without anything in it!

But back on topic, the sliding screen for business and economy is a hoot. Many times the plane is configured for 60+ Business and 40 or so Coach. Problem is, there will be 40 in coach and 3 in business. We are packed in like sardines, and don't even think about a free upgrade..heck I only have 250,000 miles on them in the past 2 years... and never once been offered an upgrade.
 
1stfl94
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RE: Big Planes With Small Economy Sections!

Sat Nov 11, 2006 8:19 am

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 25):

I believe that United operated 747-200s between JFK and NRT that had more business class seats than economy seats. This also helped avoid payload restrictions on this premium route. I've heard that the 747-200 was a stretch for this route, but it catered to a very premium crowd. Those were back in the days of 45-50 inch pitch in business class and 60 inch pitch in first class

AF did the same with it's early 744s. Two planes had a larger business class fitted for Japan flights, although they were later reconfigured to a standard layout.
 
dambuster
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RE: Big Planes With Small Economy Sections!

Sat Nov 11, 2006 8:23 am

Yeah, that's the down part, on the other hand (if it's already the case ) miles & more works in association with all the other airlines of Star Alliance so your 250'000 miles won't be for nothing!
 
ZRHnerd
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RE: Big Planes With Small Economy Sections!

Sat Nov 11, 2006 8:29 am

Quoting Vegas005 (Reply 30):
my darn bag is 4 kilos without anything in it!

hah Big grin

three weeks ago i traveled to Finland for a one week stay. The weight of my fully packed sports bag, which i checked in, was 7 kilos. Is your bag made of steal or...? Big grin

Quoting Dambuster (Reply 29):
but if you want we could do it...

Waste of time.
 
dambuster
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RE: Big Planes With Small Economy Sections!

Sat Nov 11, 2006 8:39 am

Isn't the limit of hand baggage usually 10 kg?

Quoting ZRHnerd (Reply 33):
Waste of time.

Err...I've searched the topics for LX's current probs, and did not find any... I really wouldn't mind talking about that in a separate topic!
 
workhorse
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RE: Big Planes With Small Economy Sections!

Sat Nov 11, 2006 9:35 am

Quoting Dambuster (Reply 34):
Err...I've searched the topics for LX's current probs, and did not find any... I really wouldn't mind talking about that in a separate topic!

If you do, I would gladly participate too, as LX (with AF and AC) is one of my preferred carriers.
 
ZRHnerd
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RE: Big Planes With Small Economy Sections!

Sat Nov 11, 2006 10:32 am

Quoting Dambuster (Reply 34):
I really wouldn't mind talking about that in a separate topic

launch one. I'm really curious what you don't like about LX apart from their marriage with LH.
 
BA
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RE: Big Planes With Small Economy Sections!

Sat Nov 11, 2006 10:37 am

Not really a big plane, but MEA's A321s have just 149 seats in them. I think that's the lowest in the industry. Someone correct me if I'm wrong though.

They have 31 Cedar Class seats and 118 Economy Class seats. That's a high proportion of business class seats, but a low proportation of economy class seats.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran