BrowntailWhale
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Rumor: UPS Purchasing Air Canada's 767s

Sun Nov 12, 2006 6:11 am

Rumor has it, according to the UPS aquisition manager, is that UPS is purchasing all of Air Canada's 767-300s. How many do they have? The total number for UPS is buying is 35.
 
Lumberton
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RE: Rumor: UPS Purchasing Air Canada's 767s

Sun Nov 12, 2006 6:18 am

Airfleets lists the 767 fleet as 33 763s and 11 762s. If true, this would be quite a shot in the arm for the 767BCF. AFAIK, only the 763s are convertible through the Boeing Converted freighter program though.

Here's the link:
http://www.airfleets.net/flottecie/Air%20Canada.htm
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
JayinKitsap
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RE: Rumor: UPS Purchasing Air Canada's 767s

Sun Nov 12, 2006 6:20 am

Their site indicates 33 763 and 12 762's

There is an Investor prospectus out on the web that may have more info.
 
Salomon
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RE: Rumor: UPS Purchasing Air Canada's 767s

Sun Nov 12, 2006 6:43 am

I don't think Air Canada owns all their 763s. Many are leased from GECAS, Debis or CIT...

However, i'm pretty sure all the 767-200s are owned.
Takeoffs are optional; landings are mandatory.
 
acvitale
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RE: Rumor: UPS Purchasing Air Canada's 767s

Sun Nov 12, 2006 8:26 am

Considering all the money that just went into the interior updates that seems to be quite a waste.....
 
na
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RE: Rumor: UPS Purchasing Air Canada's 767s

Sun Nov 12, 2006 8:35 am

Quoting Salomon (Reply 3):
However, i'm pretty sure all the 767-200s are owned.

But most of these -200s are ca. 20 year-old high-cycle aircraft, hardly worthy to throw money away for them for a conversion.
 
wjcandee
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RE: Rumor: UPS Purchasing Air Canada's 767s

Sun Nov 12, 2006 8:44 am

You can lay this rumour to rest.

Virtually all the Air Canada 763s are recent-vintage -ER models. Particularly as used airframes and/or short-term dry leases, these airframes are in high demand and good ones like these are extremely hard to get. Unless UPS is completely desperate for lift, which I don't believe that it is, these aircraft should be worth far more as pax birds.

The 762s, on the other hand, could be candidates to go to DHL/ABXAir as cargo conversions.
 
ChiGB1973
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RE: Rumor: UPS Purchasing Air Canada's 767s

Sun Nov 12, 2006 8:47 am

Quoting NA (Reply 5):
But most of these -200s are ca. 20 year-old high-cycle aircraft, hardly worthy to throw money away for them for a conversion

That's pretty much what cargo carriers want, though we are seeing moves in the past couple of years to newer aircraft.

The 762, even 20 y/o ones, would be great DC-8 replacements.

M
 
BrowntailWhale
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RE: Rumor: UPS Purchasing Air Canada's 767s

Sun Nov 12, 2006 8:52 am

Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 6):
You can lay this rumour to rest.

Virtually all the Air Canada 763s are recent-vintage -ER models. Particularly as used airframes and/or short-term dry leases, these airframes are in high demand and good ones like these are extremely hard to get. Unless UPS is completely desperate for lift, which I don't believe that it is, these aircraft should be worth far more as pax birds.

This rumor comes from JB, who is the UPS manager in charge of aircraft acquisitions. He stated that they were Air Canada 767-300s.
 
na
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RE: Rumor: UPS Purchasing Air Canada's 767s

Sun Nov 12, 2006 9:21 am

Quoting ChiGB1973 (Reply 7):
That's pretty much what cargo carriers want, though we are seeing moves in the past couple of years to newer aircraft.

Some of these AC-762s gather dust for 5 years now, unwanted by the whole world. Many agemates are being cut up.
 
FCKC
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RE: Rumor: UPS Purchasing Air Canada's 767s

Sun Nov 12, 2006 10:56 pm

One of the AC 762s (C-GAVA) is the Iraqi Government plane , which was at Orly last week.I checked the plane and still found the ACA plate above the first door.......staying the plane is the property of ACA !!!!!!!!!!!!! No Iraqi plate traces ..................
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: Rumor: UPS Purchasing Air Canada's 767s

Sun Nov 12, 2006 11:27 pm

I thought that the AC B-767-300ERs were going to get winglets, as part of the buy of the B-777-200LRs and B-787-900s from Boeing. I also thought the B-767-200ERs were all going to be scrapped in the next few years. So, are these not going to happen?
 
kearney
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RE: Rumor: UPS Purchasing Air Canada's 767s

Mon Nov 13, 2006 12:47 am

Id think they are to old for it to be economical to convert them to freighters. Correct me if im wrong arent they averageing about 25 years now? And would a 25 year old plane be worth converting to freighter... well it is a boeing!
 
galapagapop
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RE: Rumor: UPS Purchasing Air Canada's 767s

Mon Nov 13, 2006 2:04 am

Quoting Kearney (Reply 12):
well it is a boeing!

But imagine if they were McDonnel Douglas
 
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lightsaber
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RE: Rumor: UPS Purchasing Air Canada's 767s

Mon Nov 13, 2006 2:10 am

The question is when are these to be converted to freighters?

If its two or three years after 787 delivery is initiated... that's a different market. If they are recent vintage 763ER's... 20010 through 2012 would be the time to get rid of these birds. Otherwise, AC won't get much for them in resale.  Sad

UPS has shown a willingness to buy aircraft far in the future. I doubt AC would want to get rid of any prior to the 787. But as soon as the 787's start to roll in... Do recall AC has some 2010 787 delivery slots. We'll think of the 767 quite differently then.


http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/2005/q2/nr_050425h.html

Lightsaber
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ikramerica
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RE: Rumor: UPS Purchasing Air Canada's 767s

Mon Nov 13, 2006 3:47 am

Does this signal the end for the DC8? They have 37 DC8s, and they are looking for 35 more 763ERs...  Sad

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 14):
The question is when are these to be converted to freighters?

exactly. this is a "we have dibs" statement. AC isn't going to turn over 33 763ERs next month. UPS will convert 1 at a time, over time.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
sebring
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RE: Rumor: UPS Purchasing Air Canada's 767s

Mon Nov 13, 2006 3:59 am

According to the AC IPO prospectus, page 36, the future 767 deployment is as follows:

767-200/200ER - 12 today, one retiring by year end, 2 more go in 2007, one more in 2008, and six go sometime in the 2009-2012 timeframe.

767-300ER - 33 today, one leaving in 2007, 3 more leaving in 2008

Wildcard possibility - AC converts its two 777-200LRF into passenger 777s and drops more (2-4?) 763s in 2009. That is a distinct possibility. You read it here first.
 
threepoint
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RE: Rumor: UPS Purchasing Air Canada's 767s

Mon Nov 13, 2006 4:02 am

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 14):
I doubt AC would want to get rid of any prior to the 787.

Absolutely correct. They have a shortage of widebody aircraft already and even with the new orders coming in, they will all be kept busy for the next few years until there are enough 777/787's in the fleet..
The nice thing about a mistake is the pleasure it gives others.
 
ikramerica
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RE: Rumor: UPS Purchasing Air Canada's 767s

Mon Nov 13, 2006 4:45 am

Quoting Sebring (Reply 16):
767-300ER - 33 today, one leaving in 2007, 3 more leaving in 2008



Quoting Threepoint (Reply 17):
They have a shortage of widebody aircraft already

Obviously, the shortage doesn't outweigh the lack of desire to retire old aircraft or not renew leases on old aircraft.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
threepoint
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RE: Rumor: UPS Purchasing Air Canada's 767s

Mon Nov 13, 2006 5:23 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 18):
Obviously, the shortage doesn't outweigh the lack of desire to retire old aircraft or not renew leases on old aircraft

Apparently not. I was typing my post as Sebring wrote his, and I defer to him on all matters concerning fleet plans at AC.
The nice thing about a mistake is the pleasure it gives others.
 
ikramerica
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RE: Rumor: UPS Purchasing Air Canada's 767s

Mon Nov 13, 2006 5:33 am

Quoting Threepoint (Reply 19):
Apparently not. I was typing my post as Sebring wrote his, and I defer to him on all matters concerning fleet plans at AC.

But the bulk will remain until the 787s really start rolling in. And UPS will take them as they get them, if that's who's getting them. But for UPS, it must be nice to know they will all come from one airline who has a consistent maintenance standard, so they will have a "unified fleet" of 33 763Fs to complement their previous fleet of 33.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
krisyyz
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RE: Rumor: UPS Purchasing Air Canada's 767s

Mon Nov 13, 2006 6:03 am

I think UPS operates GE engined B767s; would that indicate that they would only acquire AC's GE powered B767s?

AC's plan was to slowly replace its B763 with B787s. The 767s did not receive B777 type overhead bins nor were they equipped with winglets as originally planned. It would make sense for AC not to invest so much money into a short-term benefit. Perhaps AC may firm some of its B787 options to allow more B767s to leave the fleet.

What happened to the possibility of some B762s going to RG?

KrisYYZ
 
UPS Pilot
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RE: Rumor: UPS Purchasing Air Canada's 767s

Mon Nov 13, 2006 10:09 am

RE: UPS Says Delay Of Superjumbo Jet A 'major' Concern (by UPS Pilot Oct 8 2006 in Civil Aviation)?searchid=3029484&s=ups+pILOT#ID3029484


Reply number 41

"ups has already done that. The 757-767-A300. Again Fleet planning isn't something that you say hey we need to go out and buy some airplanes today because we ran out. The 747 classics are replaced by the MD-11's we have bought and have more coming. Fleet plans right now are that we are not buying anything smaller than a 767 anytime soon. We are looking at 767-300 passenger to freighter conversions right now."

From October 8th  Wink
 
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yyz717
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RE: Rumor: UPS Purchasing Air Canada's 767s

Mon Nov 13, 2006 10:31 am

While still a rumour, this makes sense in several ways:
1. AC once sold 33 of its then 39-strong 722 fleet to Fedex, for delivery as its 320 fleet was added. AC seemed to manage avoiding the beginning of the used 722 glut with this sale to Fedex, and hence may wish to do the same with their 763ER fleet prior to massive industry-wide 763 retirements in the early 2010 decade.
2. UPS still operates a large fleet of DC-8-70's which will need replacing. The logical candidates are used 752, 763 and A306 aircraft. Used 752's will command a premium now that Fedex has indicated its plan to buy 90, while the A306 is not available in large numbers, which leaves 763 fleets.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
N1120A
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RE: Rumor: UPS Purchasing Air Canada's 767s

Mon Nov 13, 2006 10:42 am

Quoting NA (Reply 5):
But most of these -200s are ca. 20 year-old high-cycle aircraft, hardly worthy to throw money away for them for a conversion.

Actually, freight carriers don't really give much of a hoot about high cycle aircraft. In general, freight aircraft see relatively few cycles as compares to passenger carriers.

Quoting Sebring (Reply 16):
767-200/200ER - 12 today, one retiring by year end, 2 more go in 2007, one more in 2008, and six go sometime in the 2009-2012 timeframe.

That still leaves 2 aircraft

Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 23):
while the A306 is not available in large numbers

American and Lufthansa's eventual retirement of the type will tell a different story. Still, UPS, though their essentially forced A380 order, has shown that they are not particularly interested in more A306's
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
sebring
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RE: Rumor: UPS Purchasing Air Canada's 767s

Mon Nov 13, 2006 10:43 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 24):
That still leaves 2 aircraft

That's correct. That's what the chart shows.
 
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yyz717
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RE: Rumor: UPS Purchasing Air Canada's 767s

Mon Nov 13, 2006 10:48 am

Quoting Sebring (Reply 25):
Quoting N1120A (Reply 24):
That still leaves 2 aircraft

That's correct. That's what the chart shows.

AC recently retired a 767-209ER leaving 11 active 762's: 1 -233, 1 -275, 1 -209ER, and 8 -233ER's.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
N1120A
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RE: Rumor: UPS Purchasing Air Canada's 767s

Mon Nov 13, 2006 11:04 am

Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 26):
AC recently retired a 767-209ER leaving 11 active 762's: 1 -233, 1 -275, 1 -209ER, and 8 -233ER's.

So, the Gimli Glider is the last remaining -233?
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
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yyz717
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RE: Rumor: UPS Purchasing Air Canada's 767s

Mon Nov 13, 2006 11:34 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 27):
Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 26):
AC recently retired a 767-209ER leaving 11 active 762's: 1 -233, 1 -275, 1 -209ER, and 8 -233ER's.

So, the Gimli Glider is the last remaining -233?

Correct.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
N1120A
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RE: Rumor: UPS Purchasing Air Canada's 767s

Mon Nov 13, 2006 12:04 pm

Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 28):

Are they just planning on using her as a museum piece?
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
wjcandee
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RE: Rumor: UPS Purchasing Air Canada's 767s

Mon Nov 13, 2006 3:34 pm

To the extent that the rumour is that UPS is going to enter into some kind of MOU or LOI or even a firm contract to purchase 763s from AC as they are retired in favor of another aircraft over the next 5-7 years, the rumour becomes more plausible, as the 763 market will likely change dramatically several years from now. But if the rumour is that the aircraft will be sold in a manner similar to the way that DL sold its 762s to ABX Air (i.e. basically as fast as they could be converted), I think that it is unlikely, as I said above. But as a long-term plan to do something out in the future as other UPS aircraft are retired, sure, it makes some sense.
 
aircanada014
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RE: Rumor: UPS Purchasing Air Canada's 767s

Tue Nov 14, 2006 12:52 am

I think AC should put the Glimli Glider in the museum. That a/c made history.
Aviation Museum would be nice  Smile.
 
kearney
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RE: Rumor: UPS Purchasing Air Canada's 767s

Tue Nov 14, 2006 1:28 am

Quoting AirCanada014 (Reply 31):



Quoting AirCanada014 (Reply 31):
I think AC should put the Glimli Glider in the museum. That a/c made history.
Aviation Museum would be nice .

Yeah its so weird that that thing is still around. When i get a block at work and im working 604, it reminds me how old these birds (767's) are.
 
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longhauler
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RE: Rumor: UPS Purchasing Air Canada's 767s

Tue Nov 14, 2006 3:15 am

Quoting AirCanada014 (Reply 31):
I think AC should put the Glimli Glider in the museum. That a/c made history.
Aviation Museum would be nice .

I agree ... but where would you put it? Rockcliffe? Maybe Winnipeg the WCAM? But, its a big plane, is there even room?
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!

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