MAH4546
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AA Ending ORD-CAE; BOS-BWI; Other Changes

Sun Nov 12, 2006 8:28 am

Nothing earth shattering, but for those who care, American Eagle will be discontinuing recently launched daily non-stop service between O'Hare and Colombia, South Carolina on 13 December 2006. Also, service between Boston and Baltimore, ran since 2001 thanks largely to a contract to carry military traffic, will end on 13 December 2006. American Eagle was operating five daily weekday round-trips.

On 14 December 2006, Miami-Charlotte will get a fourth daily round-trip and Dallas-Charleston, SC will get a third daily round-trip, so that is where some capacity is moving to. In addition, LaGuardia-Jacksonville will get a second frequency on Saturdays and Sundays.

Effective 1 February 2007, service between San Juan and Fort de France will go from 4x weekly to daily.
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AJMIA
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RE: AA Ending ORD-CAE; BOS-BWI; Other Changes

Sun Nov 12, 2006 8:34 am

Is there any chance of getting a mainline jet back on MIA-CLT? The RJs have been going out fairly full.
Especially on the first CLT-MIA of the morning and the last MIA-CLT of the day.

AJMIA
Lady it's a jet... not a kite.
 
BatonOps
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RE: AA Ending ORD-CAE; BOS-BWI; Other Changes

Sun Nov 12, 2006 8:42 am

I'd like see Eagle run MDT-MIA. The MDT-DFW flight started in September is doing very well. MDT has no nonstop service to Florida.
 
AJMIA
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RE: AA Ending ORD-CAE; BOS-BWI; Other Changes

Sun Nov 12, 2006 9:04 am

Quoting BatonOps (Reply 2):
I'd like see Eagle run MDT-MIA. The MDT-DFW flight started in September is doing very well. MDT has no nonstop service to Florida.

Yes, there are a lot of small and midsize cities that would work well out of MIA, but I think/hope that AA/Eagle will beef up the frequencies on some cities that are served only once a day before they enter new markets.

Extra frequencies would be nice to BDL, DEN, RIC, ORF, SDF, CMH, CLE, PIT, GSO, CVG.

MIA-SFO could really use another flight.

An early MIA-LAS with a midday return would be good for the local market as well as connections to/from S. America.

If Eagle were to start new cities out of MIA my guess would be high yielders like PNS, XNA and HPN.

AJMIA
Lady it's a jet... not a kite.
 
rwsea
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RE: AA Ending ORD-CAE; BOS-BWI; Other Changes

Sun Nov 12, 2006 9:38 am

Still waiting for that elusive SEA-MIA to return. At this point, probably unlikely until next Winter though ....

We need a daylight departure/evening return here in SEA to really be able to take advantage of AA's Miami network.
 
AJMIA
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RE: AA Ending ORD-CAE; BOS-BWI; Other Changes

Sun Nov 12, 2006 9:45 am

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 4):
We need a daylight departure/evening return here in SEA to really be able to take advantage of AA's Miami network.

YES RwSEA we are missing that flight on this end too. BUT if/when we do get the daylight departure/eve return do you think it will be operated by AA or AS???

I heard from the AS MIA station manager that they were considering a second daily flight.

AJMIA
Lady it's a jet... not a kite.
 
RL757PVD
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RE: AA Ending ORD-CAE; BOS-BWI; Other Changes

Sun Nov 12, 2006 11:02 am

I heard a rumor (yes i know rumors are bad) that AA realized they cut PVD a little too much...86% cut (5x MD80 4 ORD 1 DFW) down to 3x weight restricted ERds.

To add credibility to the rumor the supposed start date coincided with 1 year from the mainline pull out ( 1 year recall for mainline employees or something like that) so after the year is up? (April 2007)
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
MSYtristar
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RE: AA Ending ORD-CAE; BOS-BWI; Other Changes

Sun Nov 12, 2006 2:45 pm

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 6):
AA realized they cut PVD a little too much

They cut PVD way too much. They packed in those MD-80's...I flew them several times to/from college in PVD. I could see maybe a seasonal downgrade of a flight or two, but going to all Eagle at PVD really was a poor move. I guess they wanted to see UA gain more market share...at AA's own expense.
 
RL757PVD
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RE: AA Ending ORD-CAE; BOS-BWI; Other Changes

Sun Nov 12, 2006 4:12 pm

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 7):
They cut PVD way too much.

Perhaps when they saw all their FF's went to US and UA (Star is roughly 1/3 of PVD flights) rather than drive to BOS for AA..... didnt work out like they had hoped!
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
SANFan
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RE: AA Ending ORD-CAE; BOS-BWI; Other Changes

Sun Nov 12, 2006 4:30 pm

And some of us here in SAN are wondering when the long-rumored n/s to MIA is going to appear on the schedules... And, if it's going to be seasonal, exactly what season would that be?  boggled 

bb
 
ckfred
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RE: AA Ending ORD-CAE; BOS-BWI; Other Changes

Sun Nov 12, 2006 4:47 pm

If Eagle is dropping its ORD-CAE trip, what route is getting that ORD slot?
 
PVD757
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RE: AA Ending ORD-CAE; BOS-BWI; Other Changes

Sun Nov 12, 2006 11:40 pm

I agree that AE's cut on the BOS-BWI market isn't a surprise. There are 23 WN nonstops between PVD/MHT-BWI and how ever many FL flights from BOS itself. Talk about some heavy competition - never mind B6 and UA to IAD and all the shuttle type stuff to DCA...

As for AA and PVD, well what can I say. I understand that AA is keen on controlling costs, but I often wonder how much they give up on the revenue side when they do something as drastic as they did in PVD. PVD sure isn't close to being an important market for AA, but PVD supplied a good number of passengers to the AA system, some of whom were loyal high-tier FF's. I think PVD might be a case where AA should have found a happy medium in what they were offering and the current schedule. Since the station costs have plumetted with the removal of all direct AA payroll, I figure that a DFW and a MIA (1X daily each) mainline might be much more attractive now. I've all but given up completely on AA at PVD, so anything more than 3X ERD to ORD would be a surprise right now...
 
DCA-ROCguy
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RE: AA Ending ORD-CAE; BOS-BWI; Other Changes

Mon Nov 13, 2006 12:40 am

PVD757--I wonder if PVD was something of a victim of AA's lack of 100-seat a/c and tiny number of 70-seat a/c. They've got Biblical numbers of Mad Dogs and Lawn Darts, and almost nothing in between. If there was a decent group of AA FF people in the area, you'd think that the market could have supported say 3 100-seat dailies or 4 70-seat dailies to ORD.

But with CR7's needing to be rationed like gas coupons during World War II, and Mad Dogs maybe a little too much capacity and high cost for decent frequency after 9/11, PVD got all Embraers, just like Upstate NY did. ROC and SYR do get a CR7 to DFW, but otherwise we're Lawn Dart country for AA.

Jim
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flyinryan99
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RE: AA Ending ORD-CAE; BOS-BWI; Other Changes

Mon Nov 13, 2006 1:25 am

Quoting Ckfred (Reply 10):
If Eagle is dropping its ORD-CAE trip, what route is getting that ORD slot?

I wondered the same thing. Can someone refresh me on when the slots are valid between. Is it 9am to 8pm? I've noticed that Eagle has pushed a lot of their last bank flights to after 8pm arrivals thus not requiring slots. If that's the case, where are these slots going and which cities are seeing an increase in flights? I know TOL isn't seeing them, their schedule turns really wierd to a 6am, 10am, 4pm, and 8pm departures. First 3 will be full, but the last one won't as history has shown it out of here. Obviously they are trying to increase utilization, but who's picking up what?
 
kcrwflyer
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RE: AA Ending ORD-CAE; BOS-BWI; Other Changes

Mon Nov 13, 2006 5:10 am

Whats stopping Eagle from getting more planes? Probably a dumb question, Im guessing money?

How will they enter new markets, and do they even plan to?
 
MAH4546
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RE: AA Ending ORD-CAE; BOS-BWI; Other Changes

Mon Nov 13, 2006 5:19 am

Quoting KcrwFlyer (Reply 14):
Whats stopping Eagle from getting more planes? Probably a dumb question, Im guessing money?

Caution, not money. AMR's American Eagle operation is profitable, and as is AMR itself.
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commavia
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RE: AA Ending ORD-CAE; BOS-BWI; Other Changes

Mon Nov 13, 2006 5:24 am

Quoting KcrwFlyer (Reply 14):
Whats stopping Eagle from getting more planes? Probably a dumb question, Im guessing money?

Well, in a sense.

It's not that Eagle doesn't have money. As MAH said, Eagle is profitable. The reason that Eagle cancelled all of its remaining outstanding EMB orders about 18 months ago was largely because of the state of the economy and the economics of the jets. RJ operating costs have gone through the roof with the spike in fuel prices, and their cost structures weren't all that great to begin with. In addition, Eagle probably foresaw -- correctly, in my view -- that with the softening worldwide demand for the 50-seat RJ class of aircraft, they are probably going to have quite a wide selection of second-hand EMB145 jets in the next 5 years if they should need to immediately ramp up capacity. (ExpressJet, alone, may have a few dozen that it looks to try and offload in the next couple of months.)
 
bwione
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RE: AA Ending ORD-CAE; BOS-BWI; Other Changes

Mon Nov 13, 2006 6:15 am

Quoting PVD757 (Reply 11):
I agree that AE's cut on the BOS-BWI market isn't a surprise. There are 23 WN nonstops between PVD/MHT-BWI and how ever many FL flights from BOS itself. Talk about some heavy competition - never mind B6 and UA to IAD and all the shuttle type stuff to DCA...

Actually, they did quite well in the market until Delta also added RJ service between BWI and Boston and then heavily discounted the fares. Delta has been charging $118 RT recently, well below break-even. AA just decided it wasn't worth hanging in the market any longer.
 
FCYTravis
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RE: AA Ending ORD-CAE; BOS-BWI; Other Changes

Mon Nov 13, 2006 6:34 am

Quoting KcrwFlyer (Reply 14):
Whats stopping Eagle from getting more planes?

For the larger aircraft, it's pilot contracts. AA's mainline union pact allows for only 25 70-seat jets to be operated by American Eagle, and no more. They're running all the CR7s they can.

AA and CO have pretty much the stiffest scope clauses left in the US.
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ERJ170
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RE: AA Ending ORD-CAE; BOS-BWI; Other Changes

Mon Nov 13, 2006 6:39 am

What's stopping AA from getting some E90/E95 for that 100+ seat range that they are lacking? Not that it seems to matter to AA.. but just wondering..
Aiming High and going far..
 
kcrwflyer
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RE: AA Ending ORD-CAE; BOS-BWI; Other Changes

Mon Nov 13, 2006 6:53 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 15):

Caution, not money. AMR's American Eagle operation is profitable, and as is AMR itself.

So basically, they have no interest in growing and expanding their network because theyre profitbale?
 
HPAEAA
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RE: AA Ending ORD-CAE; BOS-BWI; Other Changes

Mon Nov 13, 2006 9:53 am

Quoting FCYTravis (Reply 18):
Quoting KcrwFlyer (Reply 14):
Whats stopping Eagle from getting more planes?

For the larger aircraft, it's pilot contracts. AA's mainline union pact allows for only 25 70-seat jets to be operated by American Eagle, and no more. They're running all the CR7s they can.

AA and CO have pretty much the stiffest scope clauses left in the US.



Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 19):
What's stopping AA from getting some E90/E95 for that 100+ seat range that they are lacking? Not that it seems to matter to AA.. but just wondering..

ummm.. I think some one mentioned it, but Scope, and well honestly the AA contract becomes amendable here in the near future... so growing eagle with out growing mainline at this point could be not such a good idea... if they have any hope of getting that scope clause changed..
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PVD757
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RE: AA Ending ORD-CAE; BOS-BWI; Other Changes

Mon Nov 13, 2006 10:54 am

Quoting DCA-ROCguy (Reply 12):
PVD757--I wonder if PVD was something of a victim of AA's lack of 100-seat a/c and tiny number of 70-seat a/c.

I would agree. Upstate NY at least got some sense of frequency though - PVD's 3X daily is a paltry level of service IMO...
 
MAH4546
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RE: AA Ending ORD-CAE; BOS-BWI; Other Changes

Mon Nov 13, 2006 11:13 am

Quoting KcrwFlyer (Reply 20):

So basically, they have no interest in growing and expanding their network because theyre profitbale?

They are cautious. They will grow when there is need to. Right now, they don't see the need.
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FCYTravis
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RE: AA Ending ORD-CAE; BOS-BWI; Other Changes

Mon Nov 13, 2006 11:21 am

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 19):
What's stopping AA from getting some E90/E95 for that 100+ seat range that they are lacking? Not that it seems to matter to AA.. but just wondering..

Nothing, other than negotiating a pay scale for it with the APA.

With both US and NW contracting for the EMB-190 in as a mainline aircraft, the outsourcing line has pretty much been drawn (for now) at the 100-seat range. Anything that size will come in as an American jet, not Eagle.
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incitatus
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RE: AA Ending ORD-CAE; BOS-BWI; Other Changes

Mon Nov 13, 2006 11:28 am

Quoting KcrwFlyer (Reply 20):
So basically, they have no interest in growing and expanding their network because theyre profitbale?

Being profitable is not a sufficient condition for a company to expand. If you look at the financial results from most airlines, including American, their operating margins are mediocre. From a sinsible business perspective, it is not a good time for any of these companies to expand.
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elmothehobo
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RE: AA Ending ORD-CAE; BOS-BWI; Other Changes

Mon Nov 13, 2006 12:13 pm

Quoting FCYTravis (Reply 24):
Anything that size will come in as an American jet, not Eagle.

I remember reading here and hearing from elsewhere that American has already figured out its next generation of 70+ seater aircraft. These aircraft will be flown as Eagle but with a mainline pilot payscale (probably similar to the F100s).
 
HPAEAA
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RE: AA Ending ORD-CAE; BOS-BWI; Other Changes

Mon Nov 13, 2006 12:17 pm

any ideas where the a/c from the bwi Runs are going to be redeployed?
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wedgetail737
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RE: AA Ending ORD-CAE; BOS-BWI; Other Changes

Mon Nov 13, 2006 12:20 pm

Quoting AJMIA (Reply 5):
YES RwSEA we are missing that flight on this end too. BUT if/when we do get the daylight departure/eve return do you think it will be operated by AA or AS???

I heard from the AS MIA station manager that they were considering a second daily flight

I'm sure that's a real possibility considering AS is still taking delivery of 738's. In fact, I think there is one on its way down the Renton line today.
 
MAH4546
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RE: AA Ending ORD-CAE; BOS-BWI; Other Changes

Mon Nov 13, 2006 12:30 pm

Quoting AJMIA (Reply 5):

I heard from the AS MIA station manager that they were considering a second daily flight.

That's good to hear. The problem with the current flight is that the SEA-MIA flight connects to Caribbean and MIA-SEA connects from LatAm, so connecting traffic usually has to double-connect in one direction. A second daily would really solve this. Doesn't hurt that the flight averages a 97%+ load factor.
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FCYTravis
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RE: AA Ending ORD-CAE; BOS-BWI; Other Changes

Mon Nov 13, 2006 3:29 pm

Quoting ElmoTheHobo (Reply 26):
I remember reading here and hearing from elsewhere that American has already figured out its next generation of 70+ seater aircraft. These aircraft will be flown as Eagle but with a mainline pilot payscale (probably similar to the F100s).

Yeah, if it's a 70+ seater I would guess Eagle. But someone above mentioned the potential of E190/195 aircraft. Those are 100+, and I would be shocked if the APA allowed those to be outsourced, now that a precedent has been set by B6, US and NW.
USAir A321 service now departing for SFO with fuel stops in CAK, COS and RNO. Enjoy your flight.
 
flyinryan99
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RE: AA Ending ORD-CAE; BOS-BWI; Other Changes

Tue Nov 14, 2006 12:02 am

Someone mentioned above the contract becomes amendable soon with the pilots and IMO we will see this happen:

Pilots have been vocal to get more pay now they are making money. I think what the company may try to negotiate are more planes for Eagle for an increase in pay for the mainline pilots. Those planes for Eagle would probably be in the 70 seat range (E170/E175 or CR705s) and if they were smart they would throw FC in them too. I would also expect them to negotiate for a 100 seat aircraft (E190/195 or CR+) since that is sorely needed in their fleet. I guess it just depends on what management wants and how much the union is willing to give. Personally, I would really like to see management and the union come to terms fairly peacefully with an increase of pay for more airplanes for Eagle and mainline...only in a perfect world right?

Just my thoughts.....