snn2003
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TWA AirTran Merger!

Sun Nov 12, 2006 1:08 pm

I was searching through the archives and found a post dated June 16th 2000. Does anyone know what happened?

http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/241398
Gage
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Wsan581
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RE: TWA AirTran Merger!

Sun Nov 12, 2006 1:11 pm

Quoting Snn2003 (Thread starter):
Does anyone know what happened?

Yep AA bought TWA!!  Wink
Blue Skies Ahead!!
 
stlgph
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RE: TWA AirTran Merger!

Sun Nov 12, 2006 1:13 pm

if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
jmc1975
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RE: TWA AirTran Merger!

Sun Nov 12, 2006 1:13 pm

That was about the time that TW launced a code-share program with HP. Just as it was to go into effect, AA bought them.
.......
 
steeler83
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RE: TWA AirTran Merger!

Sun Nov 12, 2006 1:19 pm

Well, apparently nothing every materialized between Airtran and TWA. I kinda wish it did happen. Airtran would've been no more as TWA would most definitely have been the name to be kept. TWA would still be in the sky today probably. I wonder if that would've involved something along the lines we saw with US and HP. A financially crippled airline seeking a partnership with a LCC... TWA (financially crippled and now long since bankrupt) and FL, the LCC. I guess it did not fly with the judge, or one or both parties simply walked away from the merger. I know that DL stepped in then balked in 2001, which pretty much sealed the fate for TWA...
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WN230
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RE: TWA AirTran Merger!

Sun Nov 12, 2006 2:16 pm

Quoting Wsan581 (Reply 1):
AA bought TWA!!

^ thats what happened

WN230
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TrijetsRMissed
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RE: TWA AirTran Merger!

Sun Nov 12, 2006 3:08 pm

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 4):
Well, apparently nothing every materialized between Airtran and TWA. I kinda wish it did happen. Airtran would've been no more as TWA would most definitely have been the name to be kept. TWA would still be in the sky today probably

Not to mention some commonality in their fleets with the 717.
There's nothing quite like a trijet.
 
srbmod
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RE: TWA AirTran Merger!

Sun Nov 12, 2006 10:35 pm

AirTran looked at TWA's books and determined that they couldn't afford the airline. AirTran at the time had a large debt payment looming on the horizon and really couldn't afford to take on any additional debt (They ended up getting the debt payment financed via Boeing Capital, who for a time held a stake in the company until AirTran bought the shares back.). Even if TWA had filed for Chapter 11 prior to a merger with AirTran (Which what happened when the AA/TW merger was announced), who knows if the combined carrier would have even survived post-9/11.
 
Boeing Nut
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RE: TWA AirTran Merger!

Sun Nov 12, 2006 11:16 pm

Quoting Wsan581 (Reply 1):
Yep AA bought TWA!!

AA screwed TWA would be a more accurate statement.  irked 
I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.
 
Wsan581
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RE: TWA AirTran Merger!

Mon Nov 13, 2006 12:10 am

Quoting Boeing nut (Reply 8):
AA screwed TWA would be a more accurate statement.

It depends on what side of the fence you are standing on. I worked for AA and was furloughed while ex TWA employee's continued to work.

Both AA and TWA employee's suffered as a direct result. Personally I don't think you have a reason to be upset. When Tower Air went belly up I was on the unemployed line, AA saved many jobs by purchasing TWA.
Blue Skies Ahead!!
 
ANNOYEDFA
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RE: TWA AirTran Merger!

Mon Nov 13, 2006 12:50 am

Another AA/TWA thread! We all choose who we want to work for. Some people choose AA, TWA, CO, & NWA. It's unfortunate that alot of people did lose their jobs but they were (sorry to say it) dumb enough to stay. The airline had NO money, barely a viable fleet, was still cutting INT'L routes while others added. Yet people chose to stay and wait it out. There are alot of AA Flight Attendants out there and others that will never hit AA property again because of the TWA buy out and them being placed BELOW the TWA people.

I work with this one women who was a AA FA and after 9/11 and the BUY OUT she was placed BELOW the TWA FA'S who NEVER worked a DAY at AA, yet they were all now senior to her. Due to that she was furloughed almost immediately recalled briefly then gone again and only hit the bottom of the list because of the TWA people. She would be flying again today at AA if it wasen't for that buy out and yes she is bitter because she choose AA they chose her and now she'll never work get her job back. So seriously lets get over the TWA pitty party... It's over and done with.
"TWA... One Mission, Yours."
 
Boeing Nut
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RE: TWA AirTran Merger!

Mon Nov 13, 2006 1:24 am

Quoting ANNOYEDFA (Reply 10):

I hear ya man, but the sting here in STL was a lot more painful.
I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.
 
Wsan581
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RE: TWA AirTran Merger!

Mon Nov 13, 2006 1:43 am

Quoting Boeing Nut (Reply 11):
I hear ya man, but the sting here in STL was a lot more painful.

How many of your TWA buddies are still working?
Blue Skies Ahead!!
 
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Stitch
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RE: TWA AirTran Merger!

Mon Nov 13, 2006 1:50 am

Who determined the AA/TWA FA seniority merging? The airlines, or AFA?

I would expect it was AFA since it was in the union's interest to keep the most senior (and highest/longest dues-paying) members on the job. And integrating the TW FAs at their seniority level would keep labor costs higher since they could not furlough them before lower-seniority/lower-waged AA FAs so I don't expect AA wanted to do it that way if they could avoid it.
 
roseflyer
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RE: TWA AirTran Merger!

Mon Nov 13, 2006 2:46 am

Quoting Boeing nut (Reply 8):
AA screwed TWA would be a more accurate statement.

AA saved more than many jobs when purchasing TWA, it probably saved all the jobs. If AA had not purchased TWA, the carrier would have probably ran out of cash and not resumed operation in the days after 9/11. There were rumors that US Airways was low on cash and might not be able to start up again after 9/11, but it did resume operations. TWA was in far worse condition and filed for bankruptcy in April 2001, so without AA purchasing TWA, all those jobs would have pretty much instantly been gone in September of 2001.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
snn2003
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RE: TWA AirTran Merger!

Mon Nov 13, 2006 4:26 am

Quoting ANNOYEDFA (Reply 10):
Another AA/TWA thread! We all choose who we want to work for. Some people choose AA, TWA, CO, & NWA. It's unfortunate that alot of people did lose their jobs but they were (sorry to say it) dumb enough to stay. The airline had NO money, barely a viable fleet, was still cutting INT'L routes while others added. Yet people chose to stay and wait it out. There are alot of AA Flight Attendants out there and others that will never hit AA property again because of the TWA buy out and them being placed BELOW the TWA people.

I work with this one women who was a AA FA and after 9/11 and the BUY OUT she was placed BELOW the TWA FA'S who NEVER worked a DAY at AA, yet they were all now senior to her. Due to that she was furloughed almost immediately recalled briefly then gone again and only hit the bottom of the list because of the TWA people. She would be flying again today at AA if it wasen't for that buy out and yes she is bitter because she choose AA they chose her and now she'll never work get her job back. So seriously lets get over the TWA pitty party... It's over and done with.

It was not ment to be an AA/TW thred, I wanted more info on TW and airtran. Thanks to everyone who responded.
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Boeing Nut
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RE: TWA AirTran Merger!

Mon Nov 13, 2006 5:22 am

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 14):
AA saved more than many jobs when purchasing TWA, it probably saved all the jobs.

There are not many original TWA employees left here. Mostly the older folks who are on the top of the senority list are the only ones left. Most of the other survivors were sent their "thank you notices" when AA slashed services at STL.
I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.
 
roseflyer
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RE: TWA AirTran Merger!

Mon Nov 13, 2006 5:29 am

Quoting Boeing Nut (Reply 16):
There are not many original TWA employees left here.

While 1,500 of 24,000 is bad, it's better than what would have happened after 9/11. They would have gone from 24,000 to zero in three days. At least there was severance and it wasn't a sudden shock. I pity the TWA employees that gave their lives to the airline, but the company was dying. AA laid them to rest. 9/11 would have shot them in the head.

Airtran probably could have saved the airline and most if not all of those people would still have jobs, but it is unfortunate that Airtran could not have afforded TWA. Many think that TWA had more debt than assets and that it was a bad move for AA in all ways with the exception that AA removed a big competitor. TWA was a financial disaster that is lucky to have not disappeared 10 years earlier than it did.

[Edited 2006-11-12 21:31:35]
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
Boeing Nut
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RE: TWA AirTran Merger!

Mon Nov 13, 2006 5:47 am

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 17):
While 1,500 of 24,000 is bad, it's better than what would have happened after 9/11. They would have gone from 24,000 to zero in three days.

If the merger hadn't happened, it would have been before 9/11. We had our airline contingency plan on the table ready to go because we were told that TWA would have folded within two weeks of the announcement date if no merger occured.
I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.
 
stlgph
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RE: TWA AirTran Merger!

Mon Nov 13, 2006 7:08 am

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 7):

AirTran knew TWA was in trouble and after assessing that buying them out just would have been feasible, they became interested in cherry picking what they wanted of the airline as in gates at airports, 717's, routes, etc.

The St. Louis operation would have have suffered the same fate it eventually did with the AA take over, same with a great deal of the employees.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
roseflyer
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RE: TWA AirTran Merger!

Mon Nov 13, 2006 7:25 am

Quoting STLGph (Reply 19):
The St. Louis operation would have have suffered the same fate it eventually did with the AA take over, same with a great deal of the employees.

Actually, I think that STL would be kept as more of a hub than what AA did. Maybe not 800 flights per day, but probably more than the 300 flights (most of which are regional jets or props) that STL now gets from AA. Airtran was expanding and might not have fired anywhere near the number of employees that AA did. AA only has about 6% of the TWA workforce. Airtran isn't shrinking and hasn't, so they probably would have been better from an employee standpoint.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
steeler83
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RE: TWA AirTran Merger!

Mon Nov 13, 2006 11:27 am

Quoting TrijetsRMissed (Reply 6):
Not to mention some commonality in their fleets with the 717.

Oh yeah... the MD80s and the MD95/717  Smile

That would've been a match made in heaven if you ask me...

What did TWA's ops look like in ATL or MCO? Were they pretty big? I suppose that TWA would have gotten a hub at ATL, and perhaps a focus city at MCO. I suppose that ATL would have been an int'l gateway for TWA, in addition to JFK and STL...

Then again, there is DL... in both ATL and JFK... now anyway...
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
CWAFlyer
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RE: TWA AirTran Merger!

Mon Nov 13, 2006 11:57 am

Quoting ANNOYEDFA (Reply 10):
TWA FA'S who NEVER worked a DAY at AA

And never will because their time of recall is about to expire or has already.
 
CWAFlyer
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RE: TWA AirTran Merger!

Mon Nov 13, 2006 12:03 pm

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 14):
it probably saved all the jobs. of 2001.

I have friends who were pilots, flight attendants, and customer service agents with TWA and all of them were either furloughed or were given such poor seniority (a 1968 hire at TWA given an April 2001 DOH) that they quit.

The only reason American did what they did was in response to the proposed United-USAir merger that the DOJ shot down.
 
srbmod
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RE: TWA AirTran Merger!

Mon Nov 13, 2006 12:15 pm

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 21):

What did TWA's ops look like in ATL or MCO? Were they pretty big? I suppose that TWA would have gotten a hub at ATL, and perhaps a focus city at MCO. I suppose that ATL would have been an int'l gateway for TWA, in addition to JFK and STL...

In the early 90s, after Eastern folded, TWA established a mini-hub @ ATL on Concourse C.

http://www.airchive.com/Timetables%20and%20Maps/TWA%20Compressed/TWmap9308.jpg

It was short-lived, as several LCC startups (Valujet, Air South, and Kiwi International) and the 800 lb. Gorilla known as Delta really made a dent in their attempt to do something out of ATL.
 
LASoctoberB6
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RE: TWA AirTran Merger!

Mon Nov 13, 2006 2:03 pm

would someone please inform me as in to what TWA did that was so great and why? i was naive at the time it folded (to prove: i thought TWA was based in Asia or Europe) and never knew that AA snatched it up back in 2001. (i was 10 at the time)
[NOT IN SERVICE] {WEStJet}
 
DL WIDGET HEAD
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RE: TWA AirTran Merger!

Mon Nov 13, 2006 3:03 pm

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 4):
I know that DL stepped in then balked in 2001, which pretty much sealed the fate for TWA...

I don't remember this. What did DL do or not do?
 
cha747
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RE: TWA AirTran Merger!

Mon Nov 13, 2006 4:12 pm

Quoting LASOctoberB6 (Reply 25):
would someone please inform me as in to what TWA did that was so great and why? i was naive at the time it folded (to prove: i thought TWA was based in Asia or Europe) and never knew that AA snatched it up back in 2001. (i was 10 at the time)

Hmmm...how should I put this in 2006 terms....

Pan Am = Lexus
TWA = Infiniti

TWA, once owned by Howard Hughes, was a pioneer of its time. In its heyday, they were the epitome of service. I have pictures of my Mom at Bombay airport in 1969 on her way to JFK in front of the TWA logo-wall. At the time, one dressed-up to fly, was sent-off with flowers, and a professional photographer was called to take pictures for the big send-off. Inflight, service was top-notch and other airlines strived to be like TWA. In the end, like Pan Am, it was just a really, really bad downward spiral.

Check this out for a good bit of history:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans_World_Airlines
You land a million planes safely, then you have one little mid-air and you never hear the end of it - Pushing Tin
 
LASoctoberB6
Posts: 1936
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RE: TWA AirTran Merger!

Mon Nov 13, 2006 4:56 pm

Quoting Cha747 (Reply 27):

thank you

damn that Carl Urchin! err.. Irchin.

[Edited 2006-11-13 09:00:50]
[NOT IN SERVICE] {WEStJet}
 
quickmover
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RE: TWA AirTran Merger!

Mon Nov 13, 2006 11:28 pm

Interesting about the TWA ATL mini hub. I can't quite make out all of the cities on that map, but I do remember they served most of Florida, PHL, MSY, and JFK. Does anyone else remember any others?
 
Boeing Nut
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RE: TWA AirTran Merger!

Mon Nov 13, 2006 11:39 pm

Quoting Cha747 (Reply 27):

Nicely put sir.
I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.
 
airtran717
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RE: TWA AirTran Merger!

Mon Nov 13, 2006 11:43 pm

I was an employee of AirTran at the time of this proposed merger. AirTran would have been the name to be kept, as TWA was about to liquidate. We really just wanted the planes and the routes, not the entire company. We had enough problems integrating the seniority lists from ValuJet and AirTran. Lawsuits are still in litigation after 9 years. So, we removed our interest.
 
travatl
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RE: TWA AirTran Merger!

Tue Nov 14, 2006 1:28 am

Quoting AirTran717 (Reply 31):
I was an employee of AirTran at the time of this proposed merger. AirTran would have been the name to be kept, as TWA was about to liquidate. We really just wanted the planes and the routes, not the entire company. We had enough problems integrating the seniority lists from ValuJet and AirTran. Lawsuits are still in litigation after 9 years. So, we removed our interest.

Actually I don't believe that consideration actually ever progressed this far. If I remember right (somebody correct me if I'm wrong), one of TWA's unions (mechanics?) actually approached the AirTran BOD regarding some type of buyout that would keep the operations separate...both idenitities would continue to operate, under the AirTran Holdings umbrella. AirTran took one look at the enormity of the acquisition and cost involved, and pretty much said "thanks, but no thanks". Actual discussions with TWA's BOD never occurred (I think).

- Travis
 
steeler83
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RE: TWA AirTran Merger!

Tue Nov 14, 2006 9:07 am

Quoting DL Widget Head (Reply 26):
I don't remember this. What did DL do or not do?

Someone one here brought it up, or did I confuse this with PanAm and Delta?
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
stlgph
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RE: TWA AirTran Merger!

Tue Nov 14, 2006 3:49 pm

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 20):

AirTran wasn't interested in any "baggage"...i.e. Trans States Airlines, regional carriers, etc., and wasn't interested in any additional expense to make them "go away."
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport