QF744ER
Topic Author
Posts: 256
Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2004 7:59 am

Why No QF To KUL?

Mon Nov 13, 2006 12:39 am

Have just got back from a LAX trip on MH and started wondering.

Why don't QF serve KUL from ANY Australian capital city?

I just find it a bit bizzare that on selected days MH operate 2 services a day out of here in PER but QF don't offer any competition. Malaysia is a big market especially from Perth.

We all know how much QF are getting slaughtered by the likes of EK, SQ and CX on the Aust-European/UK flights, but is this just another fine example of QF walking around with their eyes closed.

Maybe i'm missing the big picture here.

cheers

Tom/PER
 
anstar
Posts: 2864
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 3:49 am

RE: Why No QF To KUL?

Mon Nov 13, 2006 1:03 am

From what I understand KUL is a low yield destinatiton so I reckon we'll see Jetstar there before QF!

Malaysian can support 2 flights ex perth as the pac are probably connecting onwards to Europe etc
 
User avatar
eta unknown
Posts: 1750
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2001 5:03 am

RE: Why No QF To KUL?

Mon Nov 13, 2006 5:32 am

QF used to serve KUL. I think the last routing was SYD-SIN-KUL with a 763. Quite frankly, the revenue out of KUL isn't that great, thus why several carriers have pulled out of the market.
 
aussie_
Posts: 1600
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2000 10:39 am

RE: Why No QF To KUL?

Mon Nov 13, 2006 5:56 am

perfect Jetstar opportunity...
 
QANTASforever
Posts: 5794
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2001 6:03 am

RE: Why No QF To KUL?

Mon Nov 13, 2006 6:47 am

It's interesting isn't it.

Of course the Malaysian Government has such a long history of warm and friendly relations with Australia, why on earth doesn't the relatively low rate of Australian tourism to the country prompt the national airline to fly there?!

I'd much rather go to Indonesia or Singapore than set foot in that country. They've made their bed - they can lie in it.

QFF
Fighting for the glory of the Australian Republic.
 
Gemuser
Posts: 4299
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 12:07 pm

RE: Why No QF To KUL?

Mon Nov 13, 2006 6:53 am

Quoting QF744ER (Thread starter):
We all know how much QF are getting slaughtered by the likes of EK, SQ and CX on the Aust-European/UK flights, but is this just another fine example of QF walking around with their eyes closed.

Got some evidance to back up this claim??? I certainly don't "know" it.

Gemuser
DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
 
FXMD11
Posts: 171
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 1:34 pm

RE: Why No QF To KUL?

Mon Nov 13, 2006 9:40 am

Quoting Eta unknown (Reply 2):
QF used to serve KUL. I think the last routing was SYD-SIN-KUL with a 763

Correct. I used to take this flight ex KUL to SIN as it was pretty late, hence could work the entire day. But these were the dates when KUL's old airport
was still operating. The equipment was a 763 all 3 Classes.
 
QF744ER
Topic Author
Posts: 256
Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2004 7:59 am

RE: Why No QF To KUL?

Mon Nov 13, 2006 11:28 am

Gemuser,

EK want to duoble their services out of PER from twice daily to four times per day, I've also heard that they want to double their flights out of every Australian city they currently fly to.

Just count the number of SQ services out of PER to SIN (4) and a good % of those pax would be going onto Europe.

So that's EK with 2 widebody's a day and were about to start seeing 773W's as of next month and SQ's 4 x daily 772's. That's 6 widebody's a day compared to QF's daily A333 or 763 depending on the day of the week. You do the maths!

QF seems to be blind when taking 'risks' and opening up new International routes. Hell how long did they toss and turn with SF and those new Chinese services!!
 
elmothehobo
Posts: 965
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2006 11:10 am

RE: Why No QF To KUL?

Mon Nov 13, 2006 12:49 pm

It isn't QF, but Australian as part of the QF group flew to Kuala Lumpur from Cairns.
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 4870
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

RE: Why No QF To KUL?

Mon Nov 13, 2006 2:24 pm

Quoting QF744ER (Reply 7):
and SQ's 4 x daily 772's. That's 6 widebody's a day compared to QF's daily A333 or 763 depending on the day of the week. You do the maths!

SQ offer 3 flights daily PER-SIN B772's, and QF offer double daily A333's.

As for QF getting slaughtered on the European routes thats not true, they hold their own againest the likes of SQ and EK to both LHR and FRA.
 
detroitflyer
Posts: 367
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 11:01 am

RE: Why No QF To KUL?

Mon Nov 13, 2006 2:37 pm

Quoting QANTASFOREVER (Reply 4):
I'd much rather go to Indonesia or Singapore than set foot in that country. They've made their bed - they can lie in it.

am i missing something?? what went wrong between malaysia and aus??
Boiler Up!!!
 
Fly2CHC
Posts: 443
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 10:35 pm

RE: Why No QF To KUL?

Mon Nov 13, 2006 3:59 pm

Where are BA in KUL is another relevant question? Up to three flights a day on MH with no competition (admittedly there would be a lot of 6th Freedom stuff).

I also think Malaysia missed the boat on this one, as there was talk many years ago about MH entering Oneworld and QF/BA centralising a lot of their SIN & BKK traffic through KUL.

But, to go back to your question, I was baffled when QF removed the SYD-KUL-SIN service to begin with - my family flew on it several times connecting to/from NZ.

Australian used to serve Kota Kinabalu from Sydney, and I also predict Jetstar will operate to KUL in the near future.
 
Qantasclub
Posts: 729
Joined: Wed Nov 19, 2003 2:48 pm

RE: Why No QF To KUL?

Mon Nov 13, 2006 4:27 pm

I think it's got more to do with the fact that Qantas has an already established and thriving hub in Changi less than 1 hour away. As an international hub, it beats KUL hands down in terms of traffic and access to destinations, as well as prestige.
Long Haul is the only way to go
 
MAS777
Posts: 2757
Joined: Sun Jul 11, 1999 7:40 am

RE: Why No QF To KUL?

Mon Nov 13, 2006 11:47 pm

Quoting Fly2CHC (Reply 11):
I also think Malaysia missed the boat on this one, as there was talk many years ago about MH entering Oneworld and QF/BA centralising a lot of their SIN & BKK traffic through KUL.

MAS and BA were in fact discussing code-sharing agreements pre-1990 which predates Oneworld. I remember Lord King visiting Langkawi just as the island opened up for tourism for the talks and MAS flew him up there for it.

Search for my previous discussions/explanations on this complex history. Remember MAS was set up with the help of BOAC so historically they go back to 1937.

Personally with regards to BA in Malaysia, KUL remains BA's Achilles Heel in Southeast Asia and rumours are constantly flying around at Waterside that KL will be back - but I very much doubt MAS will be welcoming them back for a while.
 
airnewzealand
Posts: 2310
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2000 6:00 pm

RE: Why No QF To KUL?

Tue Nov 14, 2006 4:41 am

Quoting QF744ER (Reply 7):
Gemuser,

EK want to duoble their services out of PER from twice daily to four times per day, I've also heard that they want to double their flights out of every Australian city they currently fly to.

Just count the number of SQ services out of PER to SIN (4) and a good % of those pax would be going onto Europe.

So that's EK with 2 widebody's a day and were about to start seeing 773W's as of next month and SQ's 4 x daily 772's. That's 6 widebody's a day compared to QF's daily A333 or 763 depending on the day of the week. You do the maths!

QF seems to be blind when taking 'risks' and opening up new International routes. Hell how long did they toss and turn with SF and those new Chinese services!!

Just because they want more frequency does not amount to them throttling QF on the Kangaroo route.
Have you ever thought about "lack of aircraft"? QF are in a major shortage of aircrafts, and cannot expand at all unless they want to use ultra old equipment such as 767...which we are now seeing on the NHRT route from PER. NOT GOOD!! they cannot compete with these so why start something up just to give people a bad impression of the airline when they have so much more they can offer through other aircrafts??
 
MH001
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2006 10:53 pm

RE: Why No QF To KUL?

Tue Nov 14, 2006 5:19 am

Government to government relations don't account for too much. During Dr.M's era - Malaysia had sour relations with America as well - but tourism and business relations between the two countries remained strong. In fact, Malaysia is US's biggest trade partner in South East Asia.

Anyways - Qantas forever - i've been to Australia a few times. Loved it there. You should try open your eyes a bit more, just like how QF should.
You'll love Malaysia, I'm sure!
 
aussie747
Posts: 1005
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 11:15 pm

RE: Why No QF To KUL?

Tue Nov 14, 2006 8:42 am

Quoting Qantasclub (Reply 12):
I think it's got more to do with the fact that Qantas has an already established and thriving hub in Changi less than 1 hour away. As an international hub, it beats KUL hands down in terms of traffic and access to destinations, as well as prestige.

So much for a hub!!! No QF flights to SIN allow a connection to KUL except from BNE or PER. Lame excuse for QF they should have better connections from MEL/SYD.
 
odie
Posts: 1581
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2001 8:55 am

RE: Why No QF To KUL?

Tue Nov 14, 2006 2:23 pm

Quoting Eta unknown (Reply 2):
I think the last routing was SYD-SIN-KUL with a 763.

You've got the route reversed. It's actually SYD-KUL-SIN v.v.

Quoting Eta unknown (Reply 2):
Quite frankly, the revenue out of KUL isn't that great, thus why several carriers have pulled out of the market.

While Ansett was still flying, AN was serving KUL 9 times weekly (2 times weekly SYD-KUL on B743/B744 and 7 times weekly SYD-CGK-KUL on B763). However, even when QF was serving KUL at its peak, QF was only flying to KUL 6 times weekly (3 times weekly SYD-KUL-SIN and 3 times weekly BNE-CGK-KUL - all on B763). Even after AN's demise, QF didn't increase its frequency/capacity to KUL and subsequently axed it around 1998.
 
MAS777
Posts: 2757
Joined: Sun Jul 11, 1999 7:40 am

RE: Why No QF To KUL?

Thu Nov 16, 2006 8:01 am

Quoting QANTASFOREVER (Reply 4):
why on earth doesn't the relatively low rate of Australian tourism to the country prompt the national airline to fly there?!

I'd much rather go to Indonesia or Singapore than set foot in that country. They've made their bed - they can lie in it.

?

...anyway - here's my personal opinion of why...

There are large numbers of Australians flying in/out of Malaysia all the time and probably rank as one of the larger groups of foreigners (tourists and business people) visiting Malaysia. I guess most fly on MAS and SQ (having first travelled on QF, SQ, etc via SIN).

BA and QF made a 'joint' decision to leave KUL in 2000 and probably 'can't' return to Malaysia with any view to profitability for some time hence have steered clear of KUL eversince - especially in the current economic climate.

When QF left Malaysia, MAS renegotiated the ASA to gain additional rights into Australia to 'fill the void' much to QF's disgruntlement (!) and was allowed to increase flights further by code-sharing with Ansett. Since then, MAS has taken over to operate a virtual monopoly on the direct M'sia-Australia market with Austrian's planned departure proving it to be hard to compete with MAS. I guess that's a reason we don't see EK, QR, GF routing flights via KUL either.

So, if QF really wanted to re-enter the Malaysian market effectively they would have to push hard into KUL with flights ex-SYD/MEL and perhaps PER to compete with MAS for a share of the market. This 'market' just isn't viable for QF to attempt at the moment and MAS will do its best to keep QF out by expanding as much as it can to keep the 'Roo' out.

With BA, MAS did the same by obtaining BA's relinquished traffic rights to move from 14 to 22 weekly flights into LHR and MAN, having proven to the UK authorities that there was sufficient demand. Since then, BA (as mentioned) had been toying (and continues to) with the idea of returning to KUL but it simply won't touch KUL 'with a barge pole' as, in order to compete effectively, BA would have to restart perhaps at the very least, a 5x or 6x weekly LHR-KUL nonstop service.

Although the UK market seems to be changing with MAS going back down to 16x weekly soon (and dropping MAN), BA would still have an uphill struggle to return, in this fiercely competitive market, with the likes of EK, QR, GF, KL, LH, SQ, TG all offering good fares in all 3 classes (and in BA's case - good Cargo alternatives. I only mentioned this as I know BA Cargo was doing very well as they left).

Interestingly, the Germans seemed to have observed MH's tactic and ensured a swift return to KUL, and as a result, the FRA-KUL market seems fairly balanced with MAS and LH competing on a pretty equal footing - although LH fought hard with a variety of options before being able to sustain their now regular 747 operations at KUL (whilst MAS has continued to downgrade).

Hope some of that helps...
 
QANTAS077
Posts: 5171
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2004 5:08 pm

RE: Why No QF To KUL?

Thu Nov 16, 2006 10:42 am

Quoting Airnewzealand (Reply 14):
which we are now seeing on the NHRT route from PER.

make that NRT & HKG...QF has pretty much shafted Perth when it comes to offering a decent alternative, why wouldn't you take EK421 from 1 dec with the 773ER?!

on various days you'll see the 767 doing QF77 to Singapore, pretty sure they've finally got it together and reverted back to the A333 though.

Quoting Airnewzealand (Reply 14):
they cannot compete with these so why start something up just to give people a bad impression of the airline when they have so much more they can offer through other aircrafts??

they don't like to compete...wonder what the obvious choice from Per-Hkg or Nrt would be now for the premium passenger? definitely not a beat up, 20 y/o 767.
 
Econojetter
Posts: 356
Joined: Thu May 24, 2001 11:24 pm

RE: Why No QF To KUL?

Thu Nov 16, 2006 1:07 pm

Quoting MAS777 (Reply 13):
Personally with regards to BA in Malaysia, KUL remains BA's Achilles Heel in Southeast Asia and rumours are constantly flying around at Waterside that KL will be back - but I very much doubt MAS will be welcoming them back for a while.

IMHO, calling KUL BA's Achilles heel in Southeast Asia is a misrepresentation and gross overstatement of KUL's importance in BA's operations. BA did not keel over and as a result of losing KUL. KUL was more like BA's infected little toe, taken out of commission to spare BA the worry. Also, would MAS in its right mind ever welcome a competitor, be it BA or QF, to its turf?

Quoting MAS777 (Reply 18):
demand. Since then, BA (as mentioned) had been toying (and continues to) with the idea of returning to KUL but it simply won't touch KUL 'with a barge pole' as, in order to compete effectively, BA would have to restart perhaps at the very least, a 5x or 6x weekly LHR-KUL nonstop service.
Although the UK market seems to be changing with MAS going back down to 16x weekly soon (and

Since BA left, MH has been the sole operator of KUL-LHR vv nonstops. Yet after years of monopoly on the nonstop, MH has to cut back on LHR frequencies because of losses. Seeing this, how desirable does KUL look in the eyes of BA?

Quoting MAS777 (Reply 18):
Interestingly, the Germans seemed to have observed MH's tactic and ensured a swift return to KUL, and as a result, the FRA-KUL market seems fairly balanced with MAS and LH competing on a pretty equal footing - although LH fought hard with a variety of options before being able to sustain their now regular 747 operations at KUL (whilst MAS has continued to downgrade).

LH was gone from KUL for a few years, so I wouldn't call it a swift return. The 'regular 747 operations' are 4x weekly all via BKK. MH, having already gone from daily down to 5x weekly on the FRA route where it is the sole nonstop carrier, was more recently even questioning the viability of the route. So much for MH's tactics huh?

Quoting Fly2CHC (Reply 11):
I also think Malaysia missed the boat on this one, as there was talk many years ago about MH entering Oneworld and QF/BA centralising a lot of their SIN & BKK traffic through KUL.

I recall there was some talk although I seem to recall (maybe incorrectly) that the buzz came mostly out of Kuala Lumpur. If QF/BA were really close to betting on KUL back then, they should probably be heaving a sigh of relief now.
 
Fly2CHC
Posts: 443
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 10:35 pm

RE: Why No QF To KUL?

Thu Nov 16, 2006 3:54 pm

Quoting Econojetter (Reply 20):
Since BA left, MH has been the sole operator of KUL-LHR vv nonstops. Yet after years of monopoly on the nonstop, MH has to cut back on LHR frequencies because of losses. Seeing this, how desirable does KUL look in the eyes of BA?

Completely different market. BA would provide more direct and greater options for one-world to Europe (rather than having to use CX backwards via HKG).

Quoting Econojetter (Reply 20):
Also, would MAS in its right mind ever welcome a competitor, be it BA or QF, to its turf?

Although it has nothing to do with MH, they actually do work actively to promote KUL, and more precisely Malaysia, even if it is at the cost of market share. Free landing rights for the first year (by Govt) and severely discounted ground charges, as they have previously offered, would provide you some indication of this.

Quoting Econojetter (Reply 20):
recall there was some talk although I seem to recall (maybe incorrectly) that the buzz came mostly out of Kuala Lumpur. If QF/BA were really close to betting on KUL back then, they should probably be heaving a sigh of relief now.

Not too sure what you are basing these comments on. It was Malaysia who were rejecting the numerous proposals being put forward at the time. They probably won't be heaving a sigh of relief if SIN restrict QF's movements through Changi as a result of Australia blocking SQ's US flights through SYD.
 
MAS777
Posts: 2757
Joined: Sun Jul 11, 1999 7:40 am

RE: Why No QF To KUL?

Tue Nov 21, 2006 10:11 am

Quoting Econojetter (Reply 20):
Also, would MAS in its right mind ever welcome a competitor, be it BA or QF, to its turf?

did i not just say that?

Quoting Econojetter (Reply 20):
Seeing this, how desirable does KUL look in the eyes of BA?

again - did i not just say that too?

Quoting Econojetter (Reply 20):
MH, having already gone from daily down to 5x weekly on the FRA route where it is the sole nonstop carrier, was more recently even questioning the viability of the route

...perhaps because LH offers a great Business product too on this route. Granted its not non-stop but could LH be denting MAS' margin at FRA? Personally, I use LH fairly often despite originating in LHR as their flight leaves at a reasonable time despite the stop in BKK. Besides, LH also carries a fair bit of freight hence the 747s are staying at KUL for a while.

Quoting Econojetter (Reply 20):
. So much for MH's tactics huh?

i didn't say they were 'bad' tactics as you seem to have interpreted. If anything MH was pretty cunning as demonstrated by the my inference that BA now can't see KUL as a viable route due to MAS aggressive negotiations at its departure.

Quoting Econojetter (Reply 20):
I recall there was some talk although I seem to recall (maybe incorrectly) that the buzz came mostly out of Kuala Lumpur.

MAS was in fact almost a frontrunner of Oneworld before the name Oneworld was even conjured - even in London. I recall Lord King negotiating with MAS in the early 1990s when Langkawi Island Resort was the only resort on that island. BA/AA were also at their infancy at the same time before QF was brought to the table which MAS was not too keen on - as MAS saw itself as providing all necessary Australian connections.

Quoting Econojetter (Reply 20):
calling KUL BA's Achilles heel in Southeast Asia is a misrepresentation and gross overstatement of KUL's importance in BA's operations.

Perhaps an overstatement agreed, but KUL was in fact a rather important station to BA. BA had 'hub' rights at KUL which it does not have in either Bangkok or Singapore (I believe both cities remain only as 6th freedom ports). This important distinction means that BA could have theoretically based a small fleet and operated out of KUL to various international points if it had chosen to. Unlikely - but nevertheless important rights to hold.

Apart from using KUL as a transit stop for regional services eg. MNL and CGK (stations also now closed), BA was looking into services to SGN and DPS via KUL before the 1997 crash which changed the local scene. Even at the eleventh hour, BA was about to replace its 6x BA33 777 LHR-KUL service to a 5x 777 and 2x 747 LHR-KUL service (think it was supposed to have been LHR-KUL-MNL) for winter 2001/2002, but as we all know Rod Eddington pulled the plug on that one shortly before.

KUL also remained BA's trading centre for BA's Malaysia, Brunei and Singapore operations before it handed over all SE Asian operations to Qantas (based at Singapore) - when its offices in Rohas Perkasa were eventually closed.
 
Gemuser
Posts: 4299
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 12:07 pm

RE: Why No QF To KUL?

Tue Nov 21, 2006 12:28 pm

Quoting Mas777 (Reply 22):
BA/AA were also at their infancy at the same time before QF was brought to the table which MAS was not too keen on - as MAS saw itself as providing all necessary Australian connections.

I dont have full details of the sequence of events, BUT QF was at the table before MH, in fact it was QFs table. They brought AA & BA together having had a long standing relationship with both, BA & predecessors since 1934! and with AA since the early 1980s they suggested to both that that they may find cooperation possiable and fruitful with the other. It was from this and other meetings that Oneworld eventually grew.
DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
 
Econojetter
Posts: 356
Joined: Thu May 24, 2001 11:24 pm

RE: Why No QF To KUL?

Tue Nov 21, 2006 2:46 pm

Quoting Fly2CHC (Reply 21):
Completely different market. BA would provide more direct and greater options for one-world to Europe (rather than having to use CX backwards via HKG).

Any BA service from LHR to KUL would be fighting (first and foremost against MH) for passengers traveling between these two cities. How is that a completely different market? UA and BA both fly LHR-SFO; are they in completely different markets then with regard to the LHR-SFO route?

Quoting Fly2CHC (Reply 21):
Although it has nothing to do with MH, they actually do work actively to promote KUL, and more

By 'they', you mean Malaysia Airport Holdings Bhd (MAHB). I am aware of what MAHB has tried in order to attract airlines to KUL. We both agree then it has nothing to do with MH, which was what I was trying to get at.

Quoting Fly2CHC (Reply 21):
numerous proposals being put forward at the time. They probably won't be heaving a sigh of relief if SIN restrict QF's movements through Changi as a result of Australia blocking SQ's US flights through SYD.

SQ's Australia-U.S. request has been rejected at least twice in the past couple of years. The Singapore side has indeed protested on the grounds that QF has been given beyond rights at SIN, but that is different from actually restricting QF's rights, which hasn't happened and my guess is that Singapore knows better than to compromise its own hub position on account of this rejection.
 
Econojetter
Posts: 356
Joined: Thu May 24, 2001 11:24 pm

RE: Why No QF To KUL?

Tue Nov 21, 2006 3:48 pm

Quoting Mas777 (Reply 22):
did i not just say that?

here is what you said...

Quoting MAS777 (Reply 13):
rumours are constantly flying around at Waterside that KL will be back - but I very much doubt MAS will be welcoming them back for a while.

... to which I wondered: Is it even MAS' business to welcome them or not? Would an airline ever welcome a competitor to its turf? Did MAS ever welcome them? Will MAS decide to welcome them back after a while? If not, what were you trying to tell us with that statement?

Quoting Mas777 (Reply 22):
again - did i not just say that too?

I guess this comes down to the difference in the way we interpret BA's continued absence. I infer (perhaps mistakenly) that you feel that the withdrawal from KUL is the source of much regret at BA, and how KUL remains a much coveted destination for BA. True, we both said that MH is spoiling it for BA; but I wanted to point out further that MH also managed to spoil it for its own self (not profitable even on a route where it has no nonstop competition). If you implied that BA was kept away by MH's brilliance, I beg to differ.

Quoting Mas777 (Reply 22):
i didn't say they were 'bad' tactics as you seem to have interpreted. If anything MH was pretty cunning as demonstrated by the my inference that BA now can't see KUL as a viable route due to MAS aggressive negotiations at its departure.

Quite the opposite. I felt you were implying that LH was somehow inspired by MH's brilliance, and I disagree.

Quoting Mas777 (Reply 22):
Perhaps an overstatement agreed, but KUL was in fact a rather important station to BA. BA had 'hub' rights at KUL which it does not have in either Bangkok or Singapore (I believe both cities remain only as 6th freedom ports). This important distinction means that BA could have theoretically based a small fleet and operated out of KUL to various international points if it had chosen to. Unlikely - but nevertheless important rights to hold.

During which years did BA have these rights at KUL?

Quoting Mas777 (Reply 22):
Apart from using KUL as a transit stop for regional services eg. MNL and CGK (stations also now closed), BA was looking into services to SGN and DPS via KUL before the 1997 crash which changed

Those stations may have been tag-ons because traffic out of KUL wasn't so great.

Quoting Mas777 (Reply 22):
KUL also remained BA's trading centre for BA's Malaysia, Brunei and Singapore operations before it handed over all SE Asian operations to Qantas (based at Singapore) - when its offices in Rohas Perkasa were eventually closed.

What do you mean by 'trading centre'?
 
QANTASforever
Posts: 5794
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2001 6:03 am

RE: Why No QF To KUL?

Tue Nov 21, 2006 6:42 pm

Quoting MH001 (Reply 15):
Anyways - Qantas forever - i've been to Australia a few times. Loved it there. You should try open your eyes a bit more, just like how QF should.
You'll love Malaysia, I'm sure!

I mean no personal disrespect, but no thank you. The things your government has said about my country are disgusting. I'm quite happy for the two of us to go in different directions completely.

I hope Malaysian does well on its routes, and I'm sure QF will continue to. One thing is for sure, I'll never be using either of them (or any other airline) to fly to Malaysia.

QFF
Fighting for the glory of the Australian Republic.
 
Fly2CHC
Posts: 443
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 10:35 pm

RE: Why No QF To KUL?

Tue Nov 21, 2006 11:38 pm

Quoting QANTASforever (Reply 26):
I hope Malaysian does well on its routes, and I'm sure QF will continue to. One thing is for sure, I'll never be using either of them (or any other airline) to fly to Malaysia.

Sounds like Malaysia is far better off without you. It's such an impressive country, and doesn't need close-minded visitors.

With respect to your comment that you find the things that the Malaysian Govt have said about your Govt 'disgusting', I thought US supported freedom of speach???
 
QANTASforever
Posts: 5794
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2001 6:03 am

RE: Why No QF To KUL?

Wed Nov 22, 2006 12:34 am

Quoting Fly2CHC (Reply 27):
It's such an impressive country, and doesn't need close-minded visitors.

Maybe because it's full of close-minded Prime Ministers?

Quoting Fly2CHC (Reply 27):
With respect to your comment that you find the things that the Malaysian Govt have said about your Govt 'disgusting', I thought US supported freedom of speach???

I guess so - I'm from Australia so I'm not an authority. As far as I can tell - there's nothing in the US constitution about freedom of speech requiring you to visit countries that criticise yours. Is this part of the NZ bill of rights or something?

Of course Malaysia can say whatever it wants, and those it offends can ignore it completely and refuse to spend their money there. Simple.

QFF
Fighting for the glory of the Australian Republic.
 
Fly2CHC
Posts: 443
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 10:35 pm

RE: Why No QF To KUL?

Wed Nov 22, 2006 5:16 am

Quoting QANTASforever (Reply 28):
Maybe because it's full of close-minded Prime Ministers?

Which is I guess why its economy has developed at a much greater rate than Australia's in the last few decades.

Quoting QANTASforever (Reply 28):
I guess so - I'm from Australia so I'm not an authority.

Same diff these days
 
MH001
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2006 10:53 pm

RE: Why No QF To KUL?

Wed Nov 22, 2006 6:41 am

Qantas forever - i wonder what those disgusting statements were that compelled you to avoid Malaysia completely?
I have a short memory - but I remember that it was the Ozzie PM who said that our PM was 'recalcitrant'. Maybe it was our tightly controlled media that reported it all wrong. Who knows..

Anyways - i'm sure MNL and CGK were routed via KUL because traffic to CGK/MNL were not enough to support nonstop BA flights.
I used to travel a lot with BA on their KUL-LHR-KUL flights as they offered dirt cheap student fares - and economy class was filled to the brim with students on cheap tickets. That's the main reason they could not support flights to KUL - no premium passengers. However, they uplifted 100 000 pax annually on the KUL-LHR flights.
 
QANTASforever
Posts: 5794
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2001 6:03 am

RE: Why No QF To KUL?

Wed Nov 22, 2006 6:55 am

Quoting Fly2CHC (Reply 29):
Which is I guess why its economy has developed at a much greater rate than Australia's in the last few decades.

Because we're of course talking about economic performance here.

But if you insist: remind me - who has the largest economy out of Australia, Malaysia and New Zealand?

OH that's right.

Quoting Fly2CHC (Reply 29):
Same diff these days

Ouch. ANZUS just hasn't been the same without you.  Yeah sure

QFF
Fighting for the glory of the Australian Republic.
 
VHVXB
Posts: 5309
Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2006 7:54 pm

RE: Why No QF To KUL?

Wed Nov 22, 2006 7:51 am

Quoting Fly2CHC (Reply 29):
Which is I guess why its economy has developed at a much greater rate than Australia's in the last few decades.

you have any sources to prove that?
 
chrisrad
Posts: 963
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2000 7:26 pm

RE: Why No QF To KUL?

Wed Nov 22, 2006 9:17 am

Quoting QANTASforever (Reply 26):
I hope Malaysian does well on its routes, and I'm sure QF will continue to. One thing is for sure, I'll never be using either of them (or any other airline) to fly to Malaysia.

I dont let political ranglings interfere with my travel to countries or affect which airline I choose to fly. I go there to experience the culture, the country and the people. Having flown a large selection of S.E Asian arlines, MH is still my first choice for travel anywhere, you know why?? because they are a good airline, nothing more nothing less.....
Welcome aboard Malaysia Airlines! Winner of Best Cabin Staff 2001,2002,2003,2004,2007,2009,2012
 
bill142
Posts: 7853
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 1:50 pm

RE: Why No QF To KUL?

Wed Nov 22, 2006 11:43 am

Maybe it has slipped some peoples minds that Mahathir is no longer in power in Malaysia and relations have improved since Abdullah Ahmad Badawi came to power.
 
Fly2CHC
Posts: 443
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 10:35 pm

RE: Why No QF To KUL?

Wed Nov 22, 2006 10:38 pm

Quoting VHVXB (Reply 32):
you have any sources to prove that?

Sure...just look at wikipedia for a start. Australia GDP Growth 2.5%, Malaysia GDP Growth 7.4%
 
MAS777
Posts: 2757
Joined: Sun Jul 11, 1999 7:40 am

RE: Why No QF To KUL?

Thu Nov 23, 2006 8:01 am

Quoting MH001 (Reply 30):
That's the main reason they could not support flights to KUL - no premium passengers.

I beg to differ - flew Club regularly LHR-KUL-LHR from the early 1980s onwards and SuperClub and CW was usually quite busy. When BA downgraded to the 777 post-97 Asian crisis - they used their premium 777s (with larger Club cabins) although granted they may have lost a lot of their KUL-LHR-KUL traffic given the exchange changed from RM3.80 to £1 to RM8 to £1 almost overnight. BA has also always charged more in 'J' than MAS' 'C'.

Quoting QANTASforever (Reply 26):
The things your government has said about my country are disgusting.

Pots and Kettles come to mind.
Was it not an Australian minister that only (relatively) recently pass some disgusting comment about a fellow (Australian) minister's (Malaysian) wife?
 
MAS777
Posts: 2757
Joined: Sun Jul 11, 1999 7:40 am

RE: Why No QF To KUL?

Thu Nov 23, 2006 8:27 am

Quoting Econojetter (Reply 25):
If not, what were you trying to tell us with that statement?

think you missed the semantics of my comment. MAS was and still is (as you said) very happy to see the back of BA and as I mentioned, rumours continue at BA that KUL might be back one day (it was even in an in-house newsletter some time ago) but given it has to reapply for the route (probably at the expense of MAS gaining further rights into the UK, as MAS has the full backing of the Malaysian government with regards to any re-negotiations) - this is not going to happen for some time.

Quoting Econojetter (Reply 25):
If you implied that BA was kept away by MH's brilliance

I wouldn't call it brilliance, but it was good negotiating on MH's part. Within weeks of BA's departure, MAS called on the UK CAA to relinquish BA's traffic rights into KUL thus gaining its extra frequencies with the hope of a more equal footing to compete against its main rival SQ.

Quoting Econojetter (Reply 25):
During which years did BA have these rights at KUL

BA gained these rights in the early late80s/early90s I believe (can't remember exactly when) but apart from using its 6th freedom rights, the most we ever saw of this was when BA and NZ introduced a short-lived 'Kiwi Connection' via KUL where passengers arrived from LHR on BA and continued on NZ to AKL (using a BA code). The route was disasterous given the number of stops at the time and there were a myriad of other options available and NZ left KUL shortly after.

Quoting Econojetter (Reply 25):
'trading centre'

BA's regional business operations was based at KUL (not SIN as most would think) until QF and BA expanded their JSA (which saw QF taking on more of BA's responsibilities) which ultimately moved towards SIN. Its no coincidence that those Theatre Plays that BA used to fly out to KL was also often a chance for other BA staff in the region to catch up on business and meetings.

[Edited 2006-11-23 00:34:10]
 
QANTASforever
Posts: 5794
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2001 6:03 am

RE: Why No QF To KUL?

Thu Nov 23, 2006 10:43 am

Quoting MAS777 (Reply 36):
Was it not an Australian minister that only (relatively) recently pass some disgusting comment about a fellow (Australian) minister's (Malaysian) wife?

After which he promptly resigned from politics and proceeded to attempt suicide.

Because you see - in this country, we don't put up with comments like that.

QFF
Fighting for the glory of the Australian Republic.
 
Fly2CHC
Posts: 443
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 10:35 pm

RE: Why No QF To KUL?

Thu Nov 23, 2006 5:29 pm

Quoting QANTASforever (Reply 38):
Because you see - in this country, we don't put up with comments like that.

And how long did you say Pauline Hanson was in Government????
 
Ryanair!!!
Posts: 4071
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2002 8:55 pm

RE: Why No QF To KUL?

Thu Nov 23, 2006 6:01 pm

Quoting Fly2CHC (Reply 39):
And how long did you say Pauline Hanson was in Government????

This is probably non-av. But Pauline Hanson, as embarassing as she was to Aussie politics, I felt it took guts for her to do what she did. Her party members were her downfall, but she alone as a person had some views that were worth listening to. And this is coming from an Asian person (ME).

Now back to the post...

I guess KL as a destination (and hence KUL) have been trying hard to attract the right business traffic. Presently a large chunk of them would prefer to fly via SIN on SQ, since it is only a hop and skip away. MAS as an airline is seriously under-rated. Almost no serious marketing campaign was done until recently and looking at the competition, they have A LOT of catching up to do despite having the right product in place.

Therefore people do not view KL as "the place to be" as compared to HK, Bangkok or S'pore (although in the past decade the economy has boomed). Which might explain why far-flung carriers from Europe and US struggle to keep the destination afloat as they do not have enough premium traffic to make the route profitable.
Welcome to my starry one world alliance, a team in the sky!
 
Gemuser
Posts: 4299
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 12:07 pm

RE: Why No QF To KUL?

Fri Nov 24, 2006 7:18 am

Quoting MAS777 (Reply 37):
but given it has to reapply for the route (probably at the expense of MAS gaining further rights into the UK, as MAS has the full backing of the Malaysian government with regards to any re-negotiations) - this is not going to happen for some time.

This bit I don't understand. As I understand the sitution BA still has the RIGHTS to serve KUL, as the UK goverment has not allocated them to anyone else. What they dont have is FREQUENCIES, as the the UK frequencies have been reallocated to MH, by the UK goverment.

If this is the case and BA want to return then NO negotiations are necessary. The UK goverment simply terminates MH's use of the frequencies, under whatever terms were set/agreed to when the frequencies were allocated to MH, and reallocates them to BA or another UK carrier.

Gemuser
DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
 
QANTASforever
Posts: 5794
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2001 6:03 am

RE: Why No QF To KUL?

Fri Nov 24, 2006 8:03 am

Quoting Fly2CHC (Reply 39):
And how long did you say Pauline Hanson was in Government????

She was a backbencher in parliament for the ruling Liberal party for about a year. She never held any official government post, and was disendorsed from the Liberal party. Prominent members of the Government then attempted to put her in jail, which they eventually suceeded in doing. She was never a government representative. Ever. Get your facts straight.

The difference between Australia and Malaysia is that when someone says something outrageous, we condemn them. Malaysia doesn't. The last Malaysian PM could say any racist and discriminatory thing he wanted without domestic outcry. Our PM wouldn't be allowed to say such things. As a result, he turned the Malaysian government into a laughing stock. We don't take the Malaysian executive government seriously anymore - we respect the nation and the people, but not the executive government.

And that's why a lot of Australians are unwilling to support the economy through tourism. Why should we? If they say we're racist and have dubious morals and ethics, why should we reward them with a visit?

Quoting Ryanair!!! (Reply 40):
I felt it took guts for her to do what she did.

You must be joking. It takes courage to be an idiot? Hanson is finished in Australian politics - and a good thing she is too.

QFF
Fighting for the glory of the Australian Republic.
 
planemanofnz
Posts: 1529
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:46 pm

RE: Why No QF To KUL?

Fri Nov 24, 2006 10:21 am

Quoting QF744ER (Reply 7):
EK want to duoble their services out of PER from twice daily to four times per day, I've also heard that they want to double their flights out of every Australian city they currently fly to.

Any plans for NZ?
 
VHVXB
Posts: 5309
Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2006 7:54 pm

RE: Why No QF To KUL?

Fri Nov 24, 2006 10:39 am

Quoting Planemanofnz (Reply 43):
Any plans for NZ?

Well they can have one more service from MEL to AKL
 
Ryanair!!!
Posts: 4071
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2002 8:55 pm

RE: Why No QF To KUL?

Fri Nov 24, 2006 10:51 am

Quoting QANTASforever (Reply 42):
You must be joking. It takes courage to be an idiot? Hanson is finished in Australian politics - and a good thing she is too.

She seems (or seemed) like an idiot because she lacked the finesse in political savy. But still, she did touch on a few sore points which most politicians steered away from, but it was on the minds of normal Aussies (ie. the aboriginal issues).

Quoting Gemuser (Reply 41):
If this is the case and BA want to return then NO negotiations are necessary. The UK goverment simply terminates MH's use of the frequencies, under whatever terms were set/agreed to when the frequencies were allocated to MH, and reallocates them to BA or another UK carrier.

In the meantime, I hope that MH does not attempt something suicidal like routing their LHR flights via Langkawi or Penang again!
Welcome to my starry one world alliance, a team in the sky!
 
VHVXB
Posts: 5309
Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2006 7:54 pm

RE: Why No QF To KUL?

Fri Nov 24, 2006 11:31 am

Quoting Ryanair!!! (Reply 45):
I hope that MH does not attempt something suicidal like routing their LHR flights via Langkawi or Penang again!

or like Sydney-Kuching-KUL
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 4870
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

RE: Why No QF To KUL?

Sat Nov 25, 2006 7:53 am

Quoting Planemanofnz (Reply 43):
Any plans for NZ?

EK applied for PER-AKL a while back and were denied by the Australian side as I understand it.

Quoting VHVXB (Reply 44):
Well they can have one more service from MEL to AKL

They can't currently as they are only allowed 4 daily flights across the Tasman.
 
VHVXB
Posts: 5309
Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2006 7:54 pm

RE: Why No QF To KUL?

Sat Nov 25, 2006 10:30 am

Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 47):

They can't currently as they are only allowed 4 daily flights across the Tasman.

thanks for that I didn't know they were restricted to 4 flights a day
 
CoolSkyGuy
Posts: 54
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2006 12:08 pm

RE: Why No QF To KUL?

Sat Nov 25, 2006 12:25 pm

Quoting QANTASforever (Reply 31):


I think this is a very arrogant remark... where would Australia be if it has not been a loyal deputy Sheriff to the US?  

Quoting QANTASforever (Reply 38):


May be you should be better off to be put in jail with Pauline...

Well, I do think BA has had the intention of resuming LHR-KUL route, but cost has remain as one of the biggest concern.
As for QF, it will never return if all the "executive" has the same closed-minded as this recalcitrant individual.

[Edited 2006-11-25 04:35:04]

[Edited 2006-11-25 04:37:17]

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: 7BOEING7, AABB777, alfa164, Baidu [Spider], Beardown91737, dcajet, FAST Enterprise [Crawler], georgiabill, hoons90, ikolkyo, jlbmedia, johnberg, ktrick45, MrHMSH, msycajun, Pengaea, rbrunner, Tokushima, Toulouse, wolbo, zanl188 and 228 guests