mauriceb
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KLM Announces Major Expanding/improvement

Mon Nov 13, 2006 7:34 pm

According to serveral dutch news papers/sites KLM will invest billions of euro's in overhauling the whole fleet, improving meals/lounges/cabin and it will order additional aircraft:

Order will be:

5 A330's
6 777's
7 737's

Further more they are looking at a 747 replacement which will suprisingly be 787 or 747-8I , according to KLM

Also the whole fleet will get a make-over:

Fokker fleet: new seats , carpet, luggage buckets, and air conditioning
737's: 800/900 will get newer seats, while the classics will receive the current 800/900 seats
MD-11: new WBC , which will be the same as 777/A330, and while previously they didn't want to put in PTV's, they now decided that also the economy class will get PTV's in a 3-3-3 configuration instead of the current 2-4-3
747: new WBC seats, and new flat screens in economy, but no PTV's
 
scouseflyer
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RE: KLM Announces Major Expanding/improvement

Mon Nov 13, 2006 7:41 pm

I wonder is this will be a new A330 order as IIRC they ordered some in the summer.
 
mauriceb
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RE: KLM Announces Major Expanding/improvement

Mon Nov 13, 2006 7:45 pm

Quote:
I wonder is this will be a new A330 order as IIRC they ordered some in the summer.

New order, they already have 5, 3/4 more to go, so definitly a new one.
 
acvitale
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RE: KLM Announces Major Expanding/improvement

Mon Nov 13, 2006 7:56 pm

They need to improve food service the WBC flight last night shows how low it has gone. They even cut deserts and cheese trays on the overnight flight...

The FA was very appologetic but it is a sign of how low things have gone especially with WBC.

The old video tape system on the MD11 showed age with only 5 channels of the 12 viewable and one was airshow.
 
Johnny
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RE: KLM Announces Major Expanding/improvement

Mon Nov 13, 2006 7:56 pm

"5 A330's"
- Makes sense!


"6 777's"
-Makes sense!


"7 737's"
-Makes no sense!


Further more they are looking at a 747 replacement which will suprisingly be 787 or 747-8I , according to KLM

- I think all this decisions will happen in Paris and not in Amsterdam...So more B777-300ER are more likely as well like the first A32x instead of new B737NGs!
 
hardiwv
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RE: KLM Announces Major Expanding/improvement

Mon Nov 13, 2006 7:57 pm

Interesting news, any potential list of new destinations?

Tks,
 
HB-IWC
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RE: KLM Announces Major Expanding/improvement

Mon Nov 13, 2006 7:57 pm

Quoting MauriceB (Thread starter):
MD-11: new WBC , which will be the same as 777/A330, and while previously they didn't want to put in PTV's, they now decided that also the economy class will get PTV's in a 3-3-3 configuration instead of the current 2-4-3
747: new WBC seats, and new flat screens in economy, but no PTV's

The first MD11 and B744 frames with the new WBC are already operational now, and it seems as if the entire MD11 fleet will get the new cabins by the onset of the summer schedule. I guess that the PTV installation in Y will be completed in a seperate phase.

Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 1):
I wonder is this will be a new A330 order as IIRC they ordered some in the summer.

Three more A332s will join the fleet during the current winter season, the first of which is due to arrive next month, and together with one extra B772ER, these aircraft will replace the remaining B763ERs in the fleet. I don't think that KLM has any outstanding A332 orders after these three, although I could be wrong. There are, however, a number of B773ERs in the pipeline, which were ordered last year. None of these frames are destined as a B744/74E replacement though.
 
2wingtips
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RE: KLM Announces Major Expanding/improvement

Mon Nov 13, 2006 7:58 pm

Surely the 773ER/748I will be the 744 replacement and KL are committed already to the 773ER. 787 could never be construed as a 748I replacement. Sure, KL, like most major carriers will get 787/350, but they won't replace 744s with them.
 
mauriceb
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RE: KLM Announces Major Expanding/improvement

Mon Nov 13, 2006 8:03 pm

Quote:
Surely the 773ER/748I will be the 744 replacement and KL are committed already to the 773ER. 787 could never be construed as a 748I replacement.

Well normally the 787 won't be a 747 replacement, true, but note that KLM only has a couple of full-pax 747's, and the others are all combi's. With combi's not being allowed to be built annymore, KLM needs to replace with 2 different types: 400+ pax , and 300- pax. So in this case a combination of 747-8I and 787 seems te be perfect, maybe even 787-10?

In the long run it can even replace the MD-11/A330/777... (with the MD-11 replacement starting 2012)
 
kappel
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RE: KLM Announces Major Expanding/improvement

Mon Nov 13, 2006 8:10 pm

Quoting MauriceB (Thread starter):
Order will be:

5 A330's
6 777's
7 737's

Great news about the a330's and 777's!! Are those 772's or also 77W's?
Also as I understand it, the 77W's will have 3-4-3 seating in economy, giving a total seating of about 420 pax!!!

Quoting MauriceB (Thread starter):
Further more they are looking at a 747 replacement which will surprisingly be 787 or 747-8I , according to KLM

This is very odd. Those two are quite different in capacity!!! Or do you mean the 787 to replace the combi's and the 748I to replace the all-pax versions? I would think they would pick the 748, giving commonality with possible future 748F's, which they will no doubt need after the combi's are retired.

Quoting MauriceB (Thread starter):
747: new WBC seats, and new flat screens in economy, but no PTV's

Will economy also receive the new seats (without PTV's  Sad )? To be honest, I find the old seats more comfortable.

Quoting MauriceB (Thread starter):
MD-11: new WBC , which will be the same as 777/A330, and while previously they didn't want to put in PTV's, they now decided that also the economy class will get PTV's in a 3-3-3 configuration instead of the current 2-4-3

Great news about the PTV's on the MD11. A birdy told me that the 744's will not receive the PTV's due to weight restrictions, I didn't realize KLM's 744's were flying that close to MTOW.

Quoting MauriceB (Thread starter):
Fokker fleet: new seats , carpet, luggage buckets, and air conditioning

SO I guess the Fokkers are here to stay a while. I guess that's no surprise, given that Van Wijk said he was not that impressed with the current generation of small jets (E-jets and CRJ's) They don't improve enough on the Fokkers to replace them.

Quoting MauriceB (Thread starter):
737's: 800/900 will get newer seats, while the classics will receive the current 800/900 seats

So that means some classics are staying? I'm guessing mostly -400's?

Quoting Johnny (Reply 4):
7 737's"
-Makes no sense!

Yes it does, some classics are over 20 years old and need replacing. This order was a long time coming. Last year Van Wijk already said they were planning to replace the classics with -800's and 900's. I wonder if that's still the plan, or will we be seeing some -700's?
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vfw614
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RE: KLM Announces Major Expanding/improvement

Mon Nov 13, 2006 8:12 pm

Sounds like quite a bit of investment in some pretty old aircraft (Fokkers, MD11, Boeing 737CL).
 
HB-IWC
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RE: KLM Announces Major Expanding/improvement

Mon Nov 13, 2006 8:13 pm

There seems to be a press release just out on the wires right now that announces a 6-frame B737 order worth USD 423 million replacing 6 older B737s in the KLM fleet.
 
mauriceb
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RE: KLM Announces Major Expanding/improvement

Mon Nov 13, 2006 8:19 pm

Quote:
Sounds like quite a bit of investment in some pretty old aircraft (Fokkers, MD11, Boeing 737CL).

well there is a fokker programm for a mid-life update, lots of improvements in the cockpit, performance etc. Making it cheaper, maintenance friendly, and give them more cycles than they were designed for.



About the MD-11, they will not leave before 2012, and KLM is happy with them, as it fits theire needs in South-Amerika, Afrika and middle east, they found 6 years long enough to overhaul them, to compete with other airlines such as ArkeFly, Martinair etc, which fly's on the routes the MD-11 fly's.

[Edited 2006-11-13 12:19:31]
 
kappel
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RE: KLM Announces Major Expanding/improvement

Mon Nov 13, 2006 8:23 pm

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 11):
There seems to be a press release just out on the wires right now that announces a 6-frame B737 order worth USD 423 million replacing 6 older B737s in the KLM fleet.

Indeed, the order was a UFO on Boeing's order page, it will be 6 738'a with blended winglets.

http://www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl/news/?id=17009
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HB-IWC
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RE: KLM Announces Major Expanding/improvement

Mon Nov 13, 2006 8:31 pm

Quoting MauriceB (Reply 12):
About the MD-11, they will not leave before 2012, and KLM is happy with them, as it fits theire needs in South-Amerika, Afrika and middle east, they found 6 years long enough to overhaul them, to compete with other airlines such as ArkeFly, Martinair etc, which fly's on the routes the MD-11 fly's.

The reconfigured MD11s will serve a very specific purpose in the KLM longhaul fleet: with their very low amount of premium seats (just 24 WBC seats) they will serve holiday markets (Caribbean, East Africa) as well as markets with a traditionally lower demand for premium seats. Typical MD11 markets will include CUR, AUA, SXM, BON, UIO, GYE, DAR, JRO, and YVR.

I think that to say that KLM is very happy with its MD11 fleet is stretching things a bit far. The MD11s have been somewhat of a pain in terms of dispatch reliability as they had/have their share of technical issues. I guess that KLM has figured out that the MD11s are at this point the most cost effective option available to serve the lower yielding markets in the airline's longhaul network.
 
aviopic
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RE: KLM Announces Major Expanding/improvement

Mon Nov 13, 2006 8:54 pm

Quoting Kappel (Reply 9):
SO I guess the Fokkers are here to stay a while. I guess that's no surprise, given that Van Wijk said he was not that impressed with the current generation of small jets (E-jets and CRJ's) They don't improve enough on the Fokkers to replace them.

As I posted earlier some time ago a new contract was signed with Fokker Services which runs till 2017.

Quoting MauriceB (Reply 12):
well there is a fokker programm for a mid-life update, lots of improvements in the cockpit, performance etc. Making it cheaper, maintenance friendly, and give them more cycles than they were designed for.

There is no "midlife" update program but more a commonality program because KL scraped frames from all over the globe which are due to different customer demands not identical.
Also there is no need to increase cycle life, they are certified for 110.000 cycles which is more then enough for another 15 to 20 years.

A avionics update is needed from 2010 onwards due to new regulations.

Further their isn't much new here, replacing seats and carpets is done every 5 years or so.
The truth lives in one’s mind, it doesn’t really exist
 
mauriceb
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RE: KLM Announces Major Expanding/improvement

Mon Nov 13, 2006 9:14 pm

Quoting Aviopic (Reply 15):
Further their isn't much new here, replacing seats and carpets is done every 5 years or so.

¿ no airline invests Billions of euro's each 5 years....¿

it isn't just new carpet or new seats on just one type, the whole fleet is being overhauled... New meals (finally) etc etc

And the new plane order is much new... + the fact they are looking at an 747 replacement, which is earlier then lots of us had expected.

And about the fokker update, without the special maintenance they wouldn't be able to fly much more longer with them ( regulations etc)


Don't know about you, but i find this much new news... And since its all over the newspapers, and it was announced in a press release, i guess youre the only one who thinks that way.
 
HB-IWC
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RE: KLM Announces Major Expanding/improvement

Mon Nov 13, 2006 9:22 pm

Quoting Mauriceb (Reply 16):
New meals (finally)

I wouldn't hold my breath for that one. According to the press release, they are spending in the region of 5 million Euro on inflight meals with the purpose of bringing the Cityhopper meals in line with what is served on KLM mainline. No new meals on longhaul flights, as I understand, although a revamp of the longhaul catering would be more than welcome.

Here is the entire press release in Dutch:

http://www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl/news/?id=17006

Not billions of Euro's but an investment of about 100 million. Maybe a very big deal for KLM but really peanuts compared to the kind of innovative products other airlines are rolling out.
 
mauriceb
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RE: KLM Announces Major Expanding/improvement

Mon Nov 13, 2006 9:27 pm

Quote:
Not billions of Euro's but an investment of about 100 million. Maybe a very big deal for KLM but really peanuts compared to the kind of innovative products other airlines are rolling out.

Yeah, but that was the first press-release, after that several other dutch news-papers also posted the news, and they are talking about ''billions'' of Euro's, and they also mention the 777 and A330 orders+ lounge revamp and other things etc etc  Smile
 
FCAFLYBOY
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RE: KLM Announces Major Expanding/improvement

Mon Nov 13, 2006 9:41 pm

I've never flown Longhaul with KLM - do they not have PTV's on ANY 744's??
 gasp 
 
kaitak
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RE: KLM Announces Major Expanding/improvement

Mon Nov 13, 2006 9:41 pm

Quoting MauriceB (Reply 8):
Well normally the 787 won't be a 747 replacement, true, but note that KLM only has a couple of full-pax 747's, and the others are all combi's. With combi's not being allowed to be built annymore, KLM needs to replace with 2 different types: 400+ pax , and 300- pax. So in this case a combination of 747-8I and 787 seems te be perfect, maybe even 787-10?

Just wondering whether the 777F would be considered for all cargo operations, to supplement the 744F fleet?
 
lamedianaranja
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RE: KLM Announces Major Expanding/improvement

Mon Nov 13, 2006 9:46 pm

Quoting Kappel (Reply 9):
Last year Van Wijk already said they were planning to replace the classics with -800's and 900's

and they'll all get winglets installed, new -800 will be delivered with winglets in place, PH-BXV will be the first to sport them  Cool
I wish that all skies were orange and blue!!
 
cy319
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RE: KLM Announces Major Expanding/improvement

Mon Nov 13, 2006 9:47 pm

I d really like to them to bring back the fine meal service on their European Flights. Even their C class meals on European flights are crap nowadays, limited portions, cheaply presented....
At least, they can do something with their European Flights exceeding 2.5.hours. A hot meal,even in Y class, is a must!!!
And for heaven's sake, to leave middle seat ALWAYS empty on C class!!!!
wanna be travel buddies ,sex buddies .. or both ?
 
kappel
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RE: KLM Announces Major Expanding/improvement

Mon Nov 13, 2006 9:49 pm

Quoting FCAFLYBOY (Reply 19):
I've never flown Longhaul with KLM - do they not have PTV's on ANY 744's??

Not in economy, no. Currently only the 777's and a330's and in the near future the MD11's will feature PTV's with AVOD in economy.
On a side note, KLM is not the only airline that has no PTV's on (some) long-haul aircraft, IB and LH also do not and IIRC UA does not have those on their 744's and DL does not have them at all, as well as AA (or am I wrong?) There are plenty of other airlines that only have the aisle mounted CRT's.

But I'm glad that the MD11's at least are receiving the PTV's as do all their new long haul aircraft.
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HB-IWC
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RE: KLM Announces Major Expanding/improvement

Mon Nov 13, 2006 10:07 pm

Quoting Kappel (Reply 23):
But I'm glad that the MD11's at least are receiving the PTV's as do all their new long haul aircraft.

Well, again, I wouldn't hold my breath for the PTVs in Y on the MD11 in the short term. The MD11s are getting the new WBC seats and corresponding entertainment system during this winter season, but the PTVs in Y are likely to be installed during upcoming heavy maintenance checks, and this bound to take a year or two.

Quoting CY319 (Reply 22):
And for heaven's sake, to leave middle seat ALWAYS empty on C class!!!!

KLM will probably respond to your remark that they are not really operating a Business Class product on the European network, but rather a business oriented product called Europe Select that is designed to offer higher end travelers with optimal flexibility. They prices KLM is charging for this non-business class product are, however, identical to business class fares.
 
mauriceb
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RE: KLM Announces Major Expanding/improvement

Mon Nov 13, 2006 10:13 pm

Guy's another media report, thought it was worth a new topic, its about the fokkers.
 
hardiwv
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RE: KLM Announces Major Expanding/improvement

Mon Nov 13, 2006 10:24 pm

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 17):
Not billions of Euro's but an investment of about 100 million. Maybe a very big deal for KLM but really peanuts compared to the kind of innovative products other airlines are rolling out.



Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 24):
KLM will probably respond to your remark that they are not really operating a Business Class product on the European network, but rather a business oriented product called Europe Select that is designed to offer higher end travelers with optimal flexibility. They prices KLM is charging for this non-business class product are, however, identical to business class fares.

Agree with the above statement.

Quoting MauriceB (Reply 25):
Guy's another media report, thought it was worth a new topic, its about the fokkers.

You forgot to place the link. I still think it is suicide to keep the Fokker in KL fleet after 2010....

Rgs,
 
mauriceb
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RE: KLM Announces Major Expanding/improvement

Mon Nov 13, 2006 10:28 pm

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 26):
You forgot to place the link. I still think it is suicide to keep the Fokker in KL fleet after 2010....

Totally agree with you, seems the right time to replace them.

Link: KLM Also To Replace F50/F70 (by MauriceB Nov 13 2006 in Civil Aviation)



Note: this are not rumours, but things announced at a press conference today
 
mptpa
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RE: KLM Announces Major Expanding/improvement

Mon Nov 13, 2006 10:43 pm

Quoting Kappel (Reply 9):
giving commonality with possible future 748F's

Why would not they move the cargo to AF Cargo with all their lift?

Quoting Kappel (Reply 9):
replace the classics with -800's and 900's

I would have thought if would be better harmonized fleet by using A32X series which AF is a huge user of. I guess KL is still kept a bit different!!

Quoting CY319 (Reply 22):
And for heaven's sake, to leave middle seat ALWAYS empty on C class!!!!

I have flown their C-class in Europe several times, and the seats are no different, mainly with the middle occupied, it is rather crampy. And the food, is bad.... only diff is you get real cups for coffee instead of glued in paper cups and real cutlery. Rather disappointing.
 
kappel
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RE: KLM Announces Major Expanding/improvement

Mon Nov 13, 2006 10:56 pm

Quoting Mptpa (Reply 28):
I would have thought if would be better harmonized fleet by using A32X series which AF is a huge user of. I guess KL is still kept a bit different!!

KL and AF are still kept as separate entities as far as fleet planning is concerned. And KL has always been a big user of the 737 (and boeing aircraft in general)

Quoting Mptpa (Reply 28):
Why would not they move the cargo to AF Cargo with all their lift?

See above. There is also a large demand for cargo in AMS.
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Alitalia744
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RE: KLM Announces Major Expanding/improvement

Tue Nov 14, 2006 12:00 am

perhaps a 787 interest/order for KLM will ultimately turn into Air France going for Boeing's plastic jet...
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
n1786b
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RE: KLM Announces Major Expanding/improvement

Tue Nov 14, 2006 12:21 am

Quoting Johnny (Reply 4):
I think all this decisions will happen in Paris and not in Amsterdam...So more B777-300ER are more likely as well like the first A32x instead of new B737NGs!

Well, Paris decided on 6 737NGs Big grin

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 30):
perhaps a 787 interest/order for KLM will ultimately turn into Air France going for Boeing's plastic jet...

According to AFX, Spinetta just told a group of reporters that AF and KLM will issue a joint RFP for new long-range widebody aircraft "within 18 months"

- n1786b
 
hardiwv
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RE: KLM Announces Major Expanding/improvement

Tue Nov 14, 2006 12:52 am

Quoting MauriceB (Reply 27):
Totally agree with you, seems the right time to replace them.

Link: KLM Also To Replace F50/F70 (by MauriceB Nov 13 2006 in Civil Aviation)

Note: this are not rumours, but things announced at a press conference today

Indeed, I also read the article on todays newspaper.

Rgs,
 
MEACEDAR
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RE: KLM Announces Major Expanding/improvement

Tue Nov 14, 2006 1:15 am

Quoting Kappel (Reply 23):
DL does not have them at all

Yes they do. They are equipped on the 777 and the 763, as well as the 764.
 
AA777
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RE: KLM Announces Major Expanding/improvement

Tue Nov 14, 2006 1:41 am

Quoting Kappel (Reply 23):
as well as AA (or am I wrong?)

AA has them on their 777s- every class, and I believe (not 100% sure) they have upgraded many 767s to having IFE in economy class as well.

-AA777
 
Alitalia744
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RE: KLM Announces Major Expanding/improvement

Tue Nov 14, 2006 2:10 am

Quoting MEACEDAR (Reply 33):
Yes they do. They are equipped on the 777 and the 763, as well as the 764.

For clarity:

777: All classes have PTVs
764 International: All classes will have PTVs
763: BizE has PTVs. Economy still does not.
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
MEACEDAR
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RE: KLM Announces Major Expanding/improvement

Tue Nov 14, 2006 2:28 am

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 35):
763: BizE has PTVs. Economy still does not.

On some aircrafts they do. I flew MCO-ATL and ATL-MCO on DL 763 and Economy did have PTVs.
 
DLKAPA
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RE: KLM Announces Major Expanding/improvement

Tue Nov 14, 2006 2:30 am

So where's all these new airplanes gonna be flying?
And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same
 
MEACEDAR
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RE: KLM Announces Major Expanding/improvement

Tue Nov 14, 2006 2:55 am

Quoting DLKAPA (Reply 37):
So where's all these new airplanes gonna be flying?

I hope they resume flying to airports that they dropped like BEY. I think they should also start flying to MCO instead of MP. They should also use one of the 777 for flights to places like DEN.
 
lamedianaranja
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RE: KLM Announces Major Expanding/improvement

Tue Nov 14, 2006 3:06 am

Quoting MauriceB (Reply 27):
Note: this are not rumours, but things announced at a press conference today

It was in today Telegraaf newspaper which does make it suspect but I have to say that Arnold Burlage does seem to get his facts right usually. He's putting new and old news toghether though.
I wish that all skies were orange and blue!!
 
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N328KF
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RE: KLM Announces Major Expanding/improvement

Tue Nov 14, 2006 3:11 am

Quoting Kappel (Reply 29):
KL and AF are still kept as separate entities as far as fleet planning is concerned. And KL has always been a big user of the 737 (and boeing aircraft in general)

This may be true on the surface, but I would put money on the fact that the 777-300ER decision was made a ton easier by the fact that AF operated the type.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
mymorningsong
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RE: KLM Announces Major Expanding/improvement

Tue Nov 14, 2006 3:17 am

Just announced....

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/061113/sfm101.html?.v=61

- KLM Exercises Model Substitution Rights on 777s


SEATTLE, Nov. 13 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- The Boeing Company (NYSE: BA - News) today confirmed that KLM Royal Dutch Airlines, part of the Air France/KLM Group, placed several orders this year for a total of six Boeing Next- Generation 737s. These orders have been accounted for on Boeing's Orders and Deliveries Web site under the unidentified customer category. The order is valued at approximately $423 million at list prices.

KLM converted six options for Boeing Next-Generation 737-800s to be delivered before mid-2008. The airplanes, which are equipped with fuel-efficient, emissions-reducing Blended Winglets, will replace several Classic 737s in KLM's fleet and allow for further growth. KLM currently operates a mixed fleet of Boeing Classic and Next-Generation 737 airplanes for its short-to-medium-haul operations.

Earlier this year, KLM also converted an existing order for three 777-200ERs to three 777-300ERs. This model conversion had been identified previously on Boeing's Web site. Operating multiple models of the same airplane family gives the airline the flexibility to match the right airplane size to market demand. In a combination of leases and direct purchase, KLM will operate 18 Boeing 777s by 2009.

"In the current market environment, our customers want the most fuel- efficient products to keep their costs under control. Boeing airplanes are designed to maximize fuel efficiency and, at the same time, improve environmental performance," said Marlin Dailey, vice president of Sales for Europe, Russia and Central Asia, Boeing Commercial Airplanes.

The 737-800, which can seat 162 to 189 passengers, is the best-selling version of the successful Next-Generation 737 family. The Next-Generation 737 has logged 560 net orders in 2006. As of Oct. 31, 101 customers have placed orders for more than 3,500 Next-Generation 737s; the program has about 1,440 unfilled orders with a value of about $96 billion at current list prices.

The 777 family of airplanes is popular with passengers and airlines alike due to its fuel-efficient twin-engine design, high reliability, low operating costs, and comfortable and spacious interior. The 777-300ER carries 365 passengers in a standard three-class configuration up to 7,880 nautical miles (14,594 kilometers). Over the life of the 777 program, 43 customers worldwide have placed 852 orders for 777s. The program has about 261 unfulfilled orders worth about $65 billion at current list prices.

Boeing Commercial Airplanes has booked 775 airplane orders this year, through Oct. 31
 
jfk777
Posts: 5955
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:23 am

RE: KLM Announces Major Expanding/improvement

Tue Nov 14, 2006 3:30 am

Great for KLM, A330's and 777 are two great airplanes. I hope KLM does find a bigger plane to replace the 744.
 
kaitak
Posts: 9032
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 1999 5:49 am

RE: KLM Announces Major Expanding/improvement

Tue Nov 14, 2006 4:12 am

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 42):
I hope KLM does find a bigger plane to replace the 744.

I think that's doubtful; the 773 is about as big as KLM will be going; it has ruled out the A380 and I believe (without being 100% sure) that the 747-8I has been ruled out too, although the 747-8IF will probably have a good chance, as will the 772LRF, particularly as AF has ordered the latter. Cargo is big business for KLM and if it's getting rid of 17 747-400 Combis, that's a hell of a lot of capacity to replace. Sure, the A332 and 772/773 have good belly-hold capacity, but more all-cargo aircraft will be a necessity.

Going down the road, how does it look? I see:
744F (possibly 747-8IF, but 772LRF or more 744F more likely)
772ER/773ER/772LRF
787-10 (ultimately replacing 772ER), 787-9 (replacing MD11) and 787-8 (replacing A332 - the A332 is longer, but the 788 is wider; not much between them in capacity)
Lots and lots of 737s!
EMB 170/75 and 190/95 (F50/70 replacements?)
 
boysteve
Posts: 887
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2004 7:02 am

RE: KLM Announces Major Expanding/improvement

Tue Nov 14, 2006 4:14 am

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 35):
764 International: All classes will have PTVs

Do KLM have a 764 Domestic?

On a more serious note I think that it is a bad idea not to have some kind of commonailty across the fleet when it comes to PTV's so that Joe Public knows what he is going to get when he books his seat.
 
kappel
Posts: 1836
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2005 6:48 pm

RE: KLM Announces Major Expanding/improvement

Tue Nov 14, 2006 5:07 am

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 35):
For clarity:

777: All classes have PTVs
764 International: All classes will have PTVs
763: BizE has PTVs. Economy still does not.

I know about the 777's, should've been clearer on that. Didn't know about the 764's though. Thanks for clarifying.

Quoting AA777 (Reply 34):
AA has them on their 777s- every class, and I believe (not 100% sure) they have upgraded many 767s to having IFE in economy class as well.



Quoting Boysteve (Reply 44):
Do KLM have a 764 Domestic?

He was talking about DL.
L1011,733,734,73G,738,743,744,752,763,772,77W,DC855,DC863,DC930,DC950,MD11,MD88,306,319,320,321,343,346,ARJ85,CR7,E195
 
MEACEDAR
Posts: 683
Joined: Wed Oct 11, 2006 1:57 am

RE: KLM Announces Major Expanding/improvement

Tue Nov 14, 2006 5:56 am

Quoting Boysteve (Reply 44):
Do KLM have a 764 Domestic?

No KLM does not. KLM does fly the 763 though. I think that Boysteve was talking about Delta and not KLM.
 
jycarlisle
Posts: 242
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 3:10 am

RE: KLM Announces Major Expanding/improvement

Tue Nov 14, 2006 6:03 am

Quoting Johnny (Reply 4):
I think all this decisions will happen in Paris and not in Amsterdam...So more B777-300ER are more likely as well like the first A32x instead of new B737NGs!

I'm all game for A320s and more T73s!

Cheers,
Jeremy
"CHANGE IS: CLEAN PLANES AND DIRTY MARTINIS" (DL)
 
haggis79
Posts: 535
Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2006 8:05 pm

RE: KLM Announces Major Expanding/improvement

Tue Nov 14, 2006 6:17 am

Quoting MEACEDAR (Reply 36):
On some aircrafts they do. I flew MCO-ATL and ATL-MCO on DL 763 and Economy did have PTVs.

must have been a non-ER then.... any DL-maniac who can enlighten us on this?  Confused
300 310 319/20/21 332/3 343 AT4/7 143 B19 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 742/4 752/3 763/4 77E/W CR2/7/9 D95 E45/70 F50 F70 100 M11 M90
 
F4N
Posts: 507
Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2000 11:37 pm

RE: KLM Announces Major Expanding/improvement

Tue Nov 14, 2006 6:22 am

Quoting Johnny (Reply 4):
I think all this decisions will happen in Paris and not in Amsterdam...the first A32x instead of new B737NGs!



 rotfl   rotfl   rotfl 

Talk about wild-eyed optimism rooted in wishful thinking. crazy 
It seems as though Paris thought better and ordered more 737NG's. checkmark 

Hope you're not holding your breath waiting for those KLM A32X orders there, sparky. Otherwise, you'll be as blue as those shiny new 738's.  footinmouth 

F4N

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