P3Orion
Topic Author
Posts: 378
Joined: Tue May 30, 2006 10:53 am

London ATC/Hold Or No Hold

Wed Nov 15, 2006 10:40 am

I am curious about the procedures for arrivals into the London area. Does all the traffic landing at Heathrow, and the surrounding airports, get placed into holding, regardless of volume, weather, etc and then Approach takes them out of the stack? And, if so, why? Or, does the Center vector for sequencing to the arrival fix and then Hands off to Approach?
I will have a Manhattan.
 
speedbird203
Posts: 266
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2006 4:28 am

RE: London ATC/Hold Or No Hold

Wed Nov 15, 2006 2:24 pm

Well, Arrivals into London Luton don't hold, They line them up on a 7 mile final usually, Its hardly anything more than 7 mile, Of course Heathrow will have that landing hold due to the busy traffic, I enjoy the hold for some reason, Just gives a nice view of London. But nope, Not all airports in the London area have a hold due to the busy traffic.
Metro Tower 135.0
 
PHLapproach
Posts: 1057
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2004 6:37 am

RE: London ATC/Hold Or No Hold

Wed Nov 15, 2006 4:34 pm

I remember this being a little better before. But I think it still may give you a solid explaination. Read from "Radar Maneuvering area" then down. In particular it sounds like the "Stacks" section is what you want to look at.

http://www.vatsim-uk.org/regions/capital/index.php?page=egll
 
XXXX10
Posts: 703
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2000 7:10 am

RE: London ATC/Hold Or No Hold

Wed Nov 15, 2006 7:01 pm

AFAIK There are four holding areas for flights into LHR.

Okham for flights from the west
Bovingdom for flights from the north
Lamborne for flights from the East
Biggin for flights from the South

Chances are you will be held at one of these and then vectored for final.
Not all traffic is held there the other day I flew into LHR without holding, can't remember the last time that happened.

I believe the are also extra holding areas further form the airport and if traffic is heavy aircraft can be held there before they take the normal hold.
 
express1
Posts: 847
Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2006 2:08 am

RE: London ATC/Hold Or No Hold

Wed Nov 15, 2006 7:22 pm

Quoting XXXX10 (Reply 3):

Thanks xxxx10 its a very intresting read.

dave
David.S cavanagh since 1961,if you can do better,then show me.
 
wheelsatc
Posts: 111
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 6:39 am

RE: London ATC/Hold Or No Hold

Wed Nov 15, 2006 10:05 pm

LAM, BIG, BNN and OCK are the four hold points as XXXX10 mentioned. In addition to them if the holds at LAM and BIG are full further hold points can be opened at way point BRASO for LAM and waypoint TIGER for BIG. These will be a bit further out and at higher levels. I am not sure about BNN abd OCK.

If you were coming from US east coast most arrivals route via OCK with Mid to west America and Canada routing via BNN. LAM is the busiest hold and is generally the only one that occasionally sees the additional hold point opened up.
 
PhilSquares
Posts: 3371
Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2004 6:06 pm

RE: London ATC/Hold Or No Hold

Wed Nov 15, 2006 10:11 pm

Quoting P3Orion (Thread starter):
Does all the traffic landing at Heathrow

To answer your question, I'd say it depends! I've arrived at LHR many times and have gotten right in, other times there were a couple of spins in the hold then in you go.

Like any other facility, if the weather is good, the arrival rate increases. If there's weather or other issues, such as winds then the arrival rate decreases. If there is weather and the arrival rate decreases, then the probability of holding is increased at peak times.
Fly fast, live slow
 
express1
Posts: 847
Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2006 2:08 am

RE: London ATC/Hold Or No Hold

Thu Nov 16, 2006 4:45 am

Quoting PHLapproach (Reply 2):

is this link for training new Air Traffic Controllers,if so could i give this ago even tho im 45 lol, because this gives you access to a lot of stuff.

dave
David.S cavanagh since 1961,if you can do better,then show me.
 
PHLapproach
Posts: 1057
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2004 6:37 am

RE: London ATC/Hold Or No Hold

Thu Nov 16, 2006 10:40 am

Quoting Express1 (Reply 7):
is this link for training new Air Traffic Controllers,if so could i give this ago even tho im 45 lol, because this gives you access to a lot of stuff.

It's a guide from Vatsim UK which simulates UK procedures very realistically.
 
P3Orion
Topic Author
Posts: 378
Joined: Tue May 30, 2006 10:53 am

RE: London ATC/Hold Or No Hold

Fri Nov 17, 2006 6:11 am

Thank you for the information. The thread about EGLL jogged a memory. When I was a controller at ZDC, and gave a tour to some British controllers, I recall they could not believe how dark the control room was and why we weren't holding for BWI, PHL, EWR and LGA. They seemed astounded at that. Anyway, thanks.
I will have a Manhattan.
 
PHLapproach
Posts: 1057
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2004 6:37 am

RE: London ATC/Hold Or No Hold

Fri Nov 17, 2006 7:26 am

Didn't know you were at ZDC. What area?
 
P3Orion
Topic Author
Posts: 378
Joined: Tue May 30, 2006 10:53 am

RE: London ATC/Hold Or No Hold

Fri Nov 17, 2006 9:31 am

I was in the "B" area. The Kenton Sector (53) worked the DPNT4 arrivals and the OOD departures and Casino (51) worked the VCN7 arrivals. I transfered out in '01. How long have you been at PHL?
I will have a Manhattan.

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