Australia1
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Air NZ 'may Cut' Trans Tasman Services

Thu Nov 16, 2006 4:01 pm

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=65916

AIR NZ 'may cut' Trans Tasman services
Thursday Nov 16 07:47 AEDT
Air New Zealand says it has made no decision on whether it will reduce trans-Tasman services after giving up on plans to pursue a code-share agreement with Qantas.

Air NZ announced on Wednesday it would withdraw its applications, for the airlines to share services on the Tasman route, with the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC) and New Zealand's Ministry of Transport.

The ACCC recently made a draft rejection of the Air NZ and Qantas proposal, and Air NZ said its review of the recent draft judgment from the ACCC gave it "little confidence that its views will be given any weight" when the final ruling was delivered.

"So we're better off withdrawing our application and redeploying our resources," Air NZ chief executive Rob Fyfe said.




The airline had previously indicated that it might be forced to reduce capacity on the Tasman if the code-share was not approved.

Mr Fyfe said there had been no decisions made on that issue, the New Zealand Herald reported.

But it was clear something had to be done to address the profitability of the route - which accounted for about 20 per cent of Air NZ revenue.

"We haven't got a master plan that is about to be rolled out tomorrow," he said.

"We still have a series of routes across the Tasman that are very poorly performing for us. We will now have to review how we address those issues."

The Dominion Post has reported Mr Fyfe backed away from his earlier threat to raise fares or reduce seat numbers out of Wellington if the code-share failed.

There would be no immediate changes to schedules or prices, he said. The airline had lost $NZ35 million ($A30.27 million) on its services to the capital since 2003.

The code-share was in the best interests of customers and the best solution to tackle the oversupply of seats on the Tasman while retaining a low fare structure, Mr Fyfe said.

Wellington International Airport led a vigorous and often acrimonious campaign against the code-share.

The city would have been the hardest hit by the code-share, losing all competition on Melbourne and Sydney services and a total of seven flights a week.

But on Wednesday night Wellington airport, along with political and business leaders, held out an olive branch, promising to work more closely with the airlines to improve the performance of Wellington trans-Tasman services.

Airport chief executive Simon Draper said he was relieved and the decision would make it easier for the airport and airlines to work together.


©AAP 2006

Surely they will downgrade some services to smaller aircraft or fly less frequently, or give Freedom Air access to more routes ???
 
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RE: Air NZ 'may Cut' Trans Tasman Services

Thu Nov 16, 2006 4:18 pm

I'm surprised NZ didn't excercise some of their A320 Family options for some A319s or A318s for Tasman services. A319s/A318s on some Tasman routes would be better then A320s.

I still believe that NZ and QF flying from WLG at different times would work better then flying out at basically the same times each day
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Australia1
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RE: Air NZ 'may Cut' Trans Tasman Services

Thu Nov 16, 2006 4:36 pm

Quoting 777ER (Reply 1):
I still believe that NZ and QF flying from WLG at different times would work better then flying out at basically the same times each day

Yeh seems crazy that eg. WLG/SYD both airlines have flights in morning & afternoon 40 minutes apart.

Maybe they might each drop one service & introduce a fare, like a full economy fare, whereby they could be used on either carrier, a bit like if you were flying BNE/SYD in Ansett days & you had a full economy ticket, you could get on a QF flight with an AN ticket, ie. that is, either airline would accept each other paper, although a little more complicated with a e-ticket, as no paper coupon to accept, but can't be difficult to work out.
 
Motorhussy
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RE: Air NZ 'may Cut' Trans Tasman Services

Thu Nov 16, 2006 5:02 pm

Well Rob, that's going to help you maintain market share and feed!!

Quoting Australia1 (Reply 2):
WLG/SYD both airlines have flights in morning & afternoon 40 minutes apart.

That's because they both want their share of the business traffic who can take advantage of as full a work-day as possible on either side of the Tasman if they leave at these times. These travelers are either Star Alliance or ONE World customers for the most part and their perks for work flying are that they get to use their airpoints on their families.

MH
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RE: Air NZ 'may Cut' Trans Tasman Services

Thu Nov 16, 2006 5:09 pm

Quoting Australia1 (Reply 2):

I was thinking maybe 6am, 12pm and 4pm flights from WLG-SYD, with say NZ and QF taking turns at the 12pm flights. 6am and 4pm flights catering mostly for business passengers and 12pm for familys and leisure flights. Maybe QF and NZ could code-share on the 12pm flight. If only QF had the B717 with Jetconnect
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ZK-NBT
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RE: Air NZ 'may Cut' Trans Tasman Services

Thu Nov 16, 2006 5:12 pm

I guess they probably will reduce flights particularly ex WLG and AKL, though AKL would get larger aircraft on some flights.

Quoting 777ER (Reply 1):
I'm surprised NZ didn't excercise some of their A320 Family options for some A319s or A318s for Tasman services. A319s/A318s on some Tasman routes would be better then A320s.

I don't think they will now, I think if they were thinking about that they would have already done it.
 
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RE: Air NZ 'may Cut' Trans Tasman Services

Thu Nov 16, 2006 11:28 pm

NZ should be team up with DJ. DJ's recent ordered E190 are the ideal aircraft for routes from Wellington. But also for some routes from AKL or Christchurch.

Maybe even NZ could buy some embraers.
 
Australia1
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RE: Air NZ 'may Cut' Trans Tasman Services

Fri Nov 17, 2006 8:44 am

Quoting MotorHussy (Reply 3):
Quoting Australia1 (Reply 2):
WLG/SYD both airlines have flights in morning & afternoon 40 minutes apart.

That's because they both want their share of the business traffic who can take advantage of as full a work-day as possible on either side of the Tasman if they leave at these times. These travelers are either Star Alliance or ONE World customers for the most part and their perks for work flying are that they get to use their airpoints on their families.

Airlines can effectively code share without codesharing. Eg. QF & NZ could work something out so that Star miles can be earned when flying QF metal & v.v. Obviously not enough demand from business to justify all these services, that exist now.

Quoting 777ER (Reply 4):

I was thinking maybe 6am, 12pm and 4pm flights from WLG-SYD, with say NZ and QF taking turns at the 12pm flights. 6am and 4pm flights catering mostly for business passengers and 12pm for familys and leisure flights. Maybe QF and NZ could code-share on the 12pm flight. If only QF had the B717 with Jetconnect

Forget the 12noon flights, leaisure pax will fly at anytime & virtually no business demand for a 12noon flight.

Quoting JoFMO (Reply 6):
NZ should be team up with DJ. DJ's recent ordered E190 are the ideal aircraft for routes from Wellington. But also for some routes from AKL or Christchurch.

Maybe even NZ could buy some embraers.

Talk in todays Australian newspaper of DJ & NZ now talking.

Doubt if NZ could afford or justify E-jets, especilly when they got SO MANY empty seats across Tasman now. Lots of 733 & A320's that could be better deployed, freeing up larger aircraft for other routes.
 
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RE: Air NZ 'may Cut' Trans Tasman Services

Fri Nov 17, 2006 9:09 am

Quoting Australia1 (Reply 7):
Doubt if NZ could afford or justify E-jets, especilly when they got SO MANY empty seats across Tasman now

NZ has consistently exagerated the "empty seat" problem" on its Tasman routes. On its own figures, Tasman occupancy is only 5% down compared to its "international" routes. On the other hand, NZ has an inferior product on the Tasman to QF, its main competitor - that is something it should address. NZ's real problem is it's being walloped by QF.

The duplicity of NZ is demonstrated by its litany of complaints about EK, yet its real problem area seems to be out of WLG, which EK does not even serve. NZ persists in trying to mate with QF, its only real competitor in the Tasman frequency/business market - rather than really competing with it. Unless they rethink their Tasman offerings, things will only get worse for NZ as QF/JQ's B787's come online.

Quoting Australia1 (Thread starter):
Mr Fyfe backed away from his earlier threat to raise fares or reduce seat numbers out of Wellington if the code-share failed


[Edited 2006-11-17 01:22:03]
 
aerokiwi
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RE: Air NZ 'may Cut' Trans Tasman Services

Fri Nov 17, 2006 9:18 am

Quoting Australia1 (Reply 7):
Airlines can effectively code share without codesharing. Eg. QF & NZ could work something out so that Star miles can be earned when flying QF metal & v.v. Obviously not enough demand from business to justify all these services, that exist now.

That's the erroneous argument NZ and QF have been trying to spin and has been roundly rejected by the ACCC. Why? Becasue it was balls.

Quoting Antskip (Reply 8):
The duplicity of NZ is demonstrated by its litany of complaints about EK, yet its real problem area is out of WLG, which EK does not even serve.

Very good point. I hadn't even considered that. All this seems to be about WLG. Meanwhile Fyfe is still spouting on about the increased competition from EK in the past two years. I don't know where exactly - all they've done is switch MEL-CHC to SYD-CHC and put on newer aircraft (77Ws) with much better service. So I guess better inflight service is what Fyfe is bleating about.
 
Australia1
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RE: Air NZ 'may Cut' Trans Tasman Services

Fri Nov 17, 2006 11:29 am

Quoting Aerokiwi (Reply 9):
Quoting Australia1 (Reply 7):
Airlines can effectively code share without codesharing. Eg. QF & NZ could work something out so that Star miles can be earned when flying QF metal & v.v. Obviously not enough demand from business to justify all these services, that exist now.

That's the erroneous argument NZ and QF have been trying to spin and has been roundly rejected by the ACCC. Why? Becasue it was balls.

What do u mean?

QF & NZ could announce tomorrow if they agreed & wanted to, that pax could choose whether that wanted Star miles or One World points on QF & NZ services across tasman only.

It gets rid of any f.f. issues.

However, with reduced services, their would be very few f.f. seats to redeem across tasman.
 
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NZ107
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RE: Air NZ 'may Cut' Trans Tasman Services

Fri Nov 17, 2006 2:56 pm

Just read that NZ will fly the 772 to Adelaide before Christmas due to a rise in demand.. This seems absurd! If there was such a jump, why not go for a 767 and send the 777 to SYD?

Quoting Antskip (Reply 8):
NZ's real problem is it's being walloped by QF.

One thing I would like to add to this: NZ's A320s vs QF's 763s; NZ has about the same frequency as QF does everyday to AKL, but with much bigger planes. Therefore they have more seats for the cheapest price range and NZ has very few. From, QF you can get points from the chepest seats, and also a proper meal. They're probably the reasons I'm not flying NZ next time across the Tasman, but one is to test out EK and NZ's return flight just doesn't compare to QF's.
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axio
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RE: Air NZ 'may Cut' Trans Tasman Services

Fri Nov 17, 2006 4:02 pm

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 11):
Just read that NZ will fly the 772 to Adelaide before Christmas due to a rise in demand..

Really? I didn't see it in the latest Star Alliance Timetable... and it seems an odd thing to do. If there is an A320 available, I would have thought upping the frequency from 3 to 4 a week or something like that would have worked better than take a big asset like a 777 out from elsewhere.

b.t.w how come Freedom/the Zeal operation is not in the *A timetable?

ax
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NZ107
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RE: Air NZ 'may Cut' Trans Tasman Services

Fri Nov 17, 2006 4:27 pm

May have been misleading.. One day, the 22nd of December Link

But still, seems strange they opt for the 772..
It's all about the destination AND the journey.
 
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RE: Air NZ 'may Cut' Trans Tasman Services

Fri Nov 17, 2006 4:40 pm

The 777 to ADL as far as I know is a one off.
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RE: Air NZ 'may Cut' Trans Tasman Services

Fri Nov 17, 2006 4:45 pm

Quoting Axio (Reply 12):
how come Freedom/the Zeal operation is not in the *A timetable?

SJ is a seperate airline and is not a member of Star
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Motorhussy
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RE: Air NZ 'may Cut' Trans Tasman Services

Fri Nov 17, 2006 8:34 pm

Quoting Australia1 (Reply 7):
Airlines can effectively code share without codesharing. Eg. QF & NZ could work something out so that Star miles can be earned when flying QF metal & v.v. Obviously not enough demand from business to justify all these services, that exist now.

Not if the regulatory authorities on each side of the Tasman agree they can't.

MH
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Australia1
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RE: Air NZ 'may Cut' Trans Tasman Services

Sat Nov 18, 2006 6:20 pm

Quoting MotorHussy (Reply 16):
Not if the regulatory authorities on each side of the Tasman agree they can't.

MH

Oh of course they can, BIG BROTHER !!!

Frequent flyer miles/points nothing to do with any reg. authority !!!!
 
Motorhussy
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RE: Air NZ 'may Cut' Trans Tasman Services

Sat Nov 18, 2006 8:03 pm

Quoting Australia1 (Reply 17):
Oh of course they can, BIG BROTHER !!!

Frequent flyer miles/points nothing to do with any reg. authority !!!!

Interesting opinion, I believe any such attempt would be successfully challenged, let alone vetoed by their respective alliance partners. To do so would be to start operating in a monopolistic fashion to the detriment of competition I.E. anti-competitive behavior - that's the domain of regulatory authority.

MH
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Australia1
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RE: Air NZ 'may Cut' Trans Tasman Services

Sat Nov 18, 2006 8:08 pm

Quoting MotorHussy (Reply 18):
Interesting opinion, I believe any such attempt would be successfully challenged, let alone vetoed by their respective alliance partners. To do so would be to start operating in a monopolistic fashion to the detriment of competition I.E. anti-competitive behavior - that's the domain of regulatory authority.

MH

Look, any airline can give away f.f. miles/points or whatever, bottles of booze (ala famous Southwest deal), without it becoming monopolistic.

Resp. alliance partners would rather this, than have carriers withdraw services from some routes, which would mean no f.f. seats at all !!!
 
Motorhussy
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RE: Air NZ 'may Cut' Trans Tasman Services

Sat Nov 18, 2006 8:13 pm

Quoting Australia1 (Reply 19):
Look, any airline can give away f.f. miles/points or whatever, bottles of booze (ala famous Southwest deal), without it becoming monopolistic.

Not when it comes to doing a deal with your competition that together with you makes up 80% of the market.
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VHXLR8
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RE: Air NZ 'may Cut' Trans Tasman Services

Sun Nov 19, 2006 8:04 am

Quoting 777ER (Reply 4):
If only QF had the B717 with Jetconnect

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure there might be some issues with a 717 operating trans-tasman. Even with 737s, changes have to be made before the tasman flights (additional liferafts, beacons etc).
 
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RE: Air NZ 'may Cut' Trans Tasman Services

Sun Nov 19, 2006 8:16 am

Quoting Antskip (Reply 8):

NZ has consistently exagerated the "empty seat" problem" on its Tasman routes

Yes and it is really more of an issue of yields rather than load factor for NZ, since their restructure to ZEAL320 and moving to a low-cost operation. This has meant that NZ have to fill a higher % of seats to make money, than they did before. All in all, a bit of a challenge at present.

Quoting MotorHussy (Reply 18):
Interesting opinion, I believe any such attempt would be successfully challenged, l

Ditto. Would never get off the ground, and anyway, why would they try now, to cooperate. NZ would be better looking for synergy with DJ for better feed on the other side of the ditch, and positioning a plane via OZ to HKG to connect with the AKl-HKG-LHR service. NZ should use their valuable rights to operate intl service out of Australia...
 
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RE: Air NZ 'may Cut' Trans Tasman Services

Mon Nov 20, 2006 3:13 pm

Quoting ZKNBX (Reply 22):
NZ would be better looking for synergy with DJ for better feed on the other side of the ditch

not going to happen. DJ have come out & said so.
 
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RE: Air NZ 'may Cut' Trans Tasman Services

Mon Nov 20, 2006 5:00 pm

Yes... so what? At the end of the day, it comes down to more than what they said. It is about what kind of a deal goes on the table... and I'd be surprised if something doesn't come to fruition given recent talk. If DJ won't play ball, then NZ might have to look again at the OZ domestic market. Ultimately, something has to give.
 
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RE: Air NZ 'may Cut' Trans Tasman Services

Mon Nov 20, 2006 5:31 pm

Quoting ZKNBX (Reply 24):
If DJ won't play ball, then NZ might have to look again at the OZ domestic market.

You really think NZ can sustain services in the Australian domestic market?
 
Australia1
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RE: Air NZ 'may Cut' Trans Tasman Services

Tue Nov 21, 2006 12:49 pm

Quoting VHVXB (Reply 25):
Quoting ZKNBX (Reply 24):
If DJ won't play ball, then NZ might have to look again at the OZ domestic market.

You really think NZ can sustain services in the Australian domestic market?

Of course they can, with lower costs than QF.

Hey they could start flying domestic ops in OZ tomorrow if they wanted, but they might be better, using same aircraft to fly such as eg.

PER/CHC & ADL/CHC via BNE, SYD or MEL using int terminals so no need to change terminals for thru pax.

They could also make some money on the golden triangle, using A320's for example, in a 2 class operation.
 
koruman
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RE: Air NZ 'may Cut' Trans Tasman Services

Tue Nov 21, 2006 1:44 pm

Compass, Impulse, Ansett, Ozjet.

Sorry, but there's no room for a third domestic carrier in Australia.

But NZ only needed it to provide feed for 400 seater 747s from Sydney to LA.

But their 777s could easily be configured with 40 Business Premier, 40 Premium Economy and 170 Economy seats, for a total load of 250 passengers, and with full range due to the lower load.

And at that point almost every route becomes viable without any need for feed, such as:

SYD-LAX
SYD-SFO
MEL-LAX
MEL-SFO
PER-BNE-LAX
 
VHVXB
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RE: Air NZ 'may Cut' Trans Tasman Services

Tue Nov 21, 2006 2:01 pm

Quoting Australia1 (Reply 26):
Of course they can, with lower costs than QF.

QF ain't only the operator in the Australian domestic market. You have DJ and JQ who have lower operating costs than QF. Now how will NZ a full service carrier compete with that?
 
aerohottie
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RE: Air NZ 'may Cut' Trans Tasman Services

Tue Nov 21, 2006 2:20 pm

Quoting Koruman (Reply 27):
Compass, Impulse, Ansett, Ozjet.

Sorry, but there's no room for a third domestic carrier in Australia.

Disagree completely... there is plenty of room, just no room for inefficient, undercapitalised carriers such as Compass, Ansett and Ozjet. Impulse is a different story all together.
What?
 
koruman
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RE: Air NZ 'may Cut' Trans Tasman Services

Tue Nov 21, 2006 2:49 pm

Aerohottie, I think domestic Australian flights for Air New Zealand are an unnecessary risk, whereas long-haul from Australia with 777 and 787 aircraft is pretty much risk-free.

Moreover, with existing Air NZ flights operating from Hong Kong to London, and reportedly soon from Shanghai to Manchester, Air NZ could refurbish their 767s with the new product until the 787s arrive and fly them from every Australian capital to Shanghai and Hong Kong to connect to onward flights to the UK.

Yes, Air NZ's reputation was battered in Australia by the Ansett collapse. But if Aussies will fly Emirates to London via Dubai, they'll fly Air NZ to London via Hong Kong.

And if Air NZ start to service the UK and USA from Australia without a detour through New Zealand, then Air NZ can reduce Tasman frequency and capacity accordingly.

I've noticed that in Air NZ lounges they have started to run ads about the snow in Colorado. That looks like a pretty poorly disguised bid to create enthusiasm for a route from Auckland to Denver to feed into UA services to central and eastern states of the USA.

What do you think makes more sense as a route:

a) SYD-LAX, which other airlines would kill to obtain rights for (which Air NZ already has, but wastes)?
b) AKL-DEN?

It's time Air NZ started to use the precious rights it has to, through and beyond Australia.

[Edited 2006-11-21 06:54:10]
 
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NZ107
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RE: Air NZ 'may Cut' Trans Tasman Services

Tue Nov 21, 2006 4:06 pm

Quoting Koruman (Reply 30):
fly them from every Australian capital to Shanghai and Hong Kong to connect to onward flights to the UK

Is QF failing on their PEK and PVG routes because lack of feeder services? I don't see how NZ will be able to sustain so many flights to HKG/PVG from up to 6 different cities, surely CHC-HKG or something similar would be more of a priority. My dad flew PVG-AKL last week and the plane was 1/3 full, not very promising I must say. It definitely needs more than publicity to get this one off the ground.

Quoting Koruman (Reply 30):
What do you think makes more sense as a route:

a) SYD-LAX, which other airlines would kill to obtain rights for (which Air NZ already has, but wastes)?
b) AKL-DEN?

Personally, I would like to see SYD-LAX return, although a smaller plane than a 747 would be recommended. Firstly, they should focus on those feeder flights, here's where E-Jets could become a useful addition to NZ's fleet. AKL-SYD-MEL/BNE/ADL/CNS/PER/DRW etc.. Anyways, what would your frequency be of these flights out of SYD? Will they be based in HKG/LAX/SYD or AKL?

Denver: who would go there if ORD is already going through? First on my list would be AKL-YVR, then followed by AKL-NYC. Hopefully we will see NZ utilise their options fully and return to those routes.. I wonder if UA will contemplate flying back to AKL..

Which would be preferred? Denver or Whistler? I can't really see many other US destinations NZ will fly to with large a/c than LAX, SFO, NYC, ORD and if you count YVR (pretty much). With their current fleet, they are very restricted. This order has been delayed A LONG time, still no word of it. Do they have the capital to order a lot at once? Their previous one (8x772 and 2x788) was over a billion NZD... Will they look to lease any more? Do you use options for new planes if they are leased?
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RE: Air NZ 'may Cut' Trans Tasman Services

Tue Nov 21, 2006 6:59 pm

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 31):

Is QF failing on their PEK and PVG routes because lack of feeder services?

QF is losing money in China mainly because of the aircraft and cometition, QF along with CA, MU and CZ all fly to Mainland China plus CX to HKG from SYD. QF use weight restricted 333's which carry little or no freight and are probably a little to big whereas the other carriers are switching to 332's mainly from 772's and 340's and bumping up frequency. Soon QF will be able to put the smaller and longer range 332's on the China routes and bump frequency up.

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 31):
I don't see how NZ will be able to sustain so many flights to HKG/PVG from up to 6 different cities, surely CHC-HKG or something similar would be more of a priority

With flights continuing daily to LHR and MAn they would do ok I think, personally they need a little codeshare agreement with an airline that can atleast feed into a daily SYD or MEL-HKG service, same with a service to LAX non stop from OZ. CHC-HKG would never work more than once weekly like CHC-LAX just not enough traffic.

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 31):
My dad flew PVG-AKL last week and the plane was 1/3 full, not very promising I must say. It definitely needs more than publicity to get this one off the ground.

This flight will work IMO in the long run particularly when it goes daily and has an extension to Europe. It's early days yet its been going 2 weeks.

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 31):
.. Will they look to lease any more? Do you use options for new planes if they are leased?

If they order new planes that are leased then yes they would be options unless they make it a whole new order.
 
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RE: Air NZ 'may Cut' Trans Tasman Services

Tue Nov 21, 2006 7:01 pm

Quoting VHVXB (Reply 28):
Quoting Australia1 (Reply 26):Of course they can, with lower costs than QF.
QF ain't only the operator in the Australian domestic market. You have DJ and JQ who have lower operating costs than QF. Now how will NZ a full service carrier compete with that?

Well Air NZ's A320's are operated by Zeal 320 ltd which is 100% owned by Air NZ and this company is the old Freedomair ( Zeal operates both sj and nz services) so if the a320s are operated than air nz's costs are basically a low cost carrier on the routes it operates only difference is the on board service.. In nz the service is more like a LCC ..So cost would be like JQ and DJ
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nzrich
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RE: Air NZ 'may Cut' Trans Tasman Services

Tue Nov 21, 2006 7:10 pm

As for cutting routes i think the only city that will face any cuts will be WLG ..After operating those flights for a while the loads are on average much worse than AKL and CHC..

Can see probably MEL and maybe BNE to WLG being cut

SYD will probably be safe due to its business market but maybe wont be double daily every day ie weekends
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VHVXB
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RE: Air NZ 'may Cut' Trans Tasman Services

Tue Nov 21, 2006 7:13 pm

Quoting Nzrich (Reply 33):
Well Air NZ's A320's are operated by Zeal 320 ltd which is 100% owned by Air NZ and this company is the old Freedomair ( Zeal operates both sj and nz services) so if the a320s are operated than air nz's costs are basically a low cost carrier on the routes it operates only difference is the on board service.. In nz the service is more like a LCC ..So cost would be like JQ and DJ

Fair enough. I may have misunderstood what ZKNBX trying to say then
 
Australia1
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RE: Air NZ 'may Cut' Trans Tasman Services

Tue Nov 21, 2006 7:48 pm

Quoting Aerohottie (Reply 29):
Quoting Koruman (Reply 27):
Compass, Impulse, Ansett, Ozjet.

Sorry, but there's no room for a third domestic carrier in Australia.

Disagree completely... there is plenty of room, just no room for inefficient, undercapitalised carriers such as Compass, Ansett and Ozjet

Compass Mark 1 got screwed by QF & AN. Think it was a lot more efficient than AN, although that wouldn't be hard !!!

OzJet made mistake of trying to take on the big red rat, at the profitable end of the market, which QF were going to fight tooth & nail for. Amazing what a few thouand QF Club memberships can do & a few points thrown around.

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