Johnny
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Lufthansa To Announce Longhaul-order!

Fri Nov 17, 2006 2:52 am

According to LH internal sources the expected Longhaul-order will be announced in December 2006 and not in 2007!

The also expected shorthaul-order is delayed UFN. (which most probably include the A300-600 replacement-order)

Johnny
 
jimyvr
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RE: Lufthansa To Announce Longhaul-order!

Fri Nov 17, 2006 3:02 am

So they decided to get long-haul and postpone short-haul.

What about mid/long-haul like the 787/350-size?
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dougbr2006
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RE: Lufthansa To Announce Longhaul-order!

Fri Nov 17, 2006 3:04 am

What about the regional divison !
 
flysherwood
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RE: Lufthansa To Announce Longhaul-order!

Fri Nov 17, 2006 3:14 am

Quoting Jimyvr (Reply 1):
What about mid/long-haul like the 787/350-size?

The 787 / A350 is considered long-haul. There is no mid long-haul.
 
Johnny
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RE: Lufthansa To Announce Longhaul-order!

Fri Nov 17, 2006 4:37 am

Another interesting update:

The decision is already done!

AND:

It will most likely be a Boeing/Airbus-Split order...

Let the speculation begin...

 Smile
 
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Stitch
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RE: Lufthansa To Announce Longhaul-order!

Fri Nov 17, 2006 4:47 am

I and a few others have been speculating whether or not GECAS is taking 15 773ERs to place with LH to begin replacing 744s. I know I am on record saying LH wouldn't buy them since they have the A346 in their fleet and more on order, however a 10-12 year lease would tide LH over until the A350-1000/787-11/Y3 is available.
 
NYC777
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RE: Lufthansa To Announce Longhaul-order!

Fri Nov 17, 2006 4:48 am

Well first, does this also include freighters (the order) or is it just for the passenger side. Any word on when in Dec they'll be making an announcement?

IMO, 787s from Boeing and more A380s for the passenger side.

748F for the cargo.
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bringiton
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RE: Lufthansa To Announce Longhaul-order!

Fri Nov 17, 2006 4:53 am

Didnt LH say that they will wait for the XWB? If that is the case then it would mean that Airbus would have completed their offer to LH vis-a-vis the new improved XWB and LH have made a choice. IMO the deal will be for More A380's (LH has said that they will be buying more) and the 787 !
 
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USAF336TFS
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RE: Lufthansa To Announce Longhaul-order!

Fri Nov 17, 2006 4:56 am

Quoting Johnny (Thread starter):
According to LH internal sources the expected Longhaul-order will be announced in December 2006 and not in 2007!

What sources are we talking here Johnny?
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eatmybologna
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RE: Lufthansa To Announce Longhaul-order!

Fri Nov 17, 2006 4:56 am

I'm guessing that they'll go with either one of the two following options:

1. Take SU's left over delivery slot for 20 787s with options for more.

2. Become a launch customer for the A350xwb.

E-M-B
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bringiton
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RE: Lufthansa To Announce Longhaul-order!

Fri Nov 17, 2006 4:59 am

Quoting Eatmybologna (Reply 9):
Become a launch customer for the A350xwb.

Doesnt the XWB allready have launch customers? Maybe they'd be launch customers for 350-1000
 
Johnny
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RE: Lufthansa To Announce Longhaul-order!

Fri Nov 17, 2006 4:59 am

@NYC777
As far as i am informed it is concerning the Passenger-fleet only.


@ USAF336TFS

This question is not meant seriously, isn´t it...?  Smile


Johnny
 
NYC777
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RE: Lufthansa To Announce Longhaul-order!

Fri Nov 17, 2006 5:03 am

Quoting Johnny (Reply 11):
As far as i am informed it is concerning the Passenger-fleet only.

Ahh, then forget the 747. They'll go with the 787, A380 (exercise options), and as far as the 77W/A346 it's a toss up. That one can go either way.

I think they have a board meeting on Dec. 6th so perhaps that when the announcement or a deicision will be made.

[Edited 2006-11-16 21:05:13]
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USAF336TFS
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RE: Lufthansa To Announce Longhaul-order!

Fri Nov 17, 2006 5:08 am

Quoting Johnny (Reply 11):
@ USAF336TFS

This question is not meant seriously, isn´t it...?

I don't think I ask silly questions Johnny, publically, or I try not to...  Big grin

It was serious question.

My wife is in management for them here in the States and we've heard nothing but what has been Mayruber's previous statements concerning their widebody order.
Look, like you, I can't wait to find out either, so I'm asking where are the reports coming from? Inside Germany? News media? What?
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columba
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RE: Lufthansa To Announce Longhaul-order!

Fri Nov 17, 2006 5:11 am

Well this it too good to be true since LH management recently stated that they will wait until next spring.
But if Johnny is right -what I really hope - I guess we will see 787s from Boeing, maybe 777 and more A380s from Airbus.
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
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RE: Lufthansa To Announce Longhaul-order!

Fri Nov 17, 2006 5:13 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 5):
I and a few others have been speculating whether or not GECAS is taking 15 773ERs to place with LH to begin replacing 744s. I know I am on record saying LH wouldn't buy them since they have the A346 in their fleet and more on order, however a 10-12 year lease would tide LH over until the A350-1000/787-11/Y3 is available.

It's LH's policy to not lease. LH ONLY buys a/c.

Cheers,
Thilo
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Johnny
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RE: Lufthansa To Announce Longhaul-order!

Fri Nov 17, 2006 5:14 am

@ USAF336TFS

Let me say it like this:

I did not hear it from the media or somebody NOT involved in the board which decided this long-awaited order.

At this stage I cannot be more precise to you...
Sorry!


Johnny
 
UA777300ER
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RE: Lufthansa To Announce Longhaul-order!

Fri Nov 17, 2006 5:24 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 5):
however a 10-12 year lease would tide LH over until the A350-1000/787-11/Y3 is available.

I must have missed the speculation/info on the 787-11 model. What is this variant expected to be?


Tom
 
columba
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RE: Lufthansa To Announce Longhaul-order!

Fri Nov 17, 2006 5:27 am

Quoting Johnny (Thread starter):
The also expected shorthaul-order is delayed UFN. (which most probably include the A300-600 replacement-order)

Hi Johnny,

so there will be a "real" A300-600 replacement ?
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
slz396
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RE: Lufthansa To Announce Longhaul-order!

Fri Nov 17, 2006 5:31 am

Looks like there is some good news coming for both manufacturers on the wide body front.

How likely is it to see additional A380 orders from LH in December?
I know LH's CEO has said it is a given they will order more superjumbos at some point, but will it be done now already? LH could take advantage of the FedEx cancellation to get some pretty early delivery positions...

And how likely is a mixed 787/A350 order?
If LH were to take let's say the 787-9 (8 abreast) and the A350-1000, they would get the best of both worlds (with 2 very different planes capacity wise) and leave the possibility open for a small fleet of 787-3s later.

Included in the deal for 787s could be an interim lease of 777s while waiting for the A350-1000s in a similar way as Airbus is doing to SQ with A330s.

All this is just a personal idea of course, but given the fact the timing of the announcement is suddenly brought forward to shortly AFTER EADS will give the go-ahead to the A350XWB (possibly with a secret LH commitment on their table?) AND the sudden purchase of 773ERs by GECAS (which is well connected to the 777 program) it could be there are some good indications...
 
na
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RE: Lufthansa To Announce Longhaul-order!

Fri Nov 17, 2006 5:36 am

As long as the 747-8I is in the mix and the 773 out I´m fine. I heard no 787s for LH, but only believe it when the announcement comes.

But: every week we hear LH is going to announce something very soon, next month, not this year, probably next week, and so on and on...
 
beech19
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RE: Lufthansa To Announce Longhaul-order!

Fri Nov 17, 2006 5:49 am

Quoting Jimyvr (Reply 1):
What about mid/long-haul like the 787/350-size?

If a 8500nm 787 isn't long haul... what is? (aside from 772LR)

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 12):
They'll go with the 787, A380 (exercise options), and as far as the 77W/A346 it's a toss up.

Agree with all except the 77W/A346 toss up.
Maybe internally at LH they aren't sure but last time i checked there was truely no competition between the 773ER and A346 as far as performance. 773ER shines brighter in that one. (No disrespect to the A340 as its my favorite A a/c...)

Quoting FlyinTLow (Reply 15):
It's LH's policy to not lease. LH ONLY buys a/c.

Is this really a written policy somewhere? or are you just speculating because of the airlines history? Never rule out anything... in this day in age where costs are rising a company will do what is best for its bottom line, now, today. Not just because they have a tradition of doing something contradictory to it.
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LTU932
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RE: Lufthansa To Announce Longhaul-order!

Fri Nov 17, 2006 5:54 am

Quoting FlyinTLow (Reply 15):
It's LH's policy to not lease. LH ONLY buys a/c.

Finally someone answers my question (the one I made in the GECAS UFO order thread). However LH does lease on a short term basis at least, both dry lease and ACMIs (remember the A332s and previously the NG 767s which flew for LH for a while, I presume pilots from DE flew the 767s for LH).

As for the speculations, I'm guessing maybe 10(firm)+5(options) 77Ws and perhaps 15+5 748Is. I'd hold my breath with the 787s, though I'm confident that eventually, the 787 will fly for LH and DE.
 
scaledesigns
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RE: Lufthansa To Announce Longhaul-order!

Fri Nov 17, 2006 6:03 am

I smell a 777 order!!Maybe some leased 777s from GECAS??
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aerokiwi
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RE: Lufthansa To Announce Longhaul-order!

Fri Nov 17, 2006 6:10 am

Regarding the XWB - Can LH really wait 8+ years for this bird? Has the -1000 even been launched? Has anything even been launched?
 
beech19
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RE: Lufthansa To Announce Longhaul-order!

Fri Nov 17, 2006 6:17 am

Quoting Aerokiwi (Reply 24):
Regarding the XWB - Can LH really wait 8+ years for this bird? Has the -1000 even been launched? Has anything even been launched?

No... No... and um... No.  duck 
Who knows if it ever will...
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scouseflyer
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RE: Lufthansa To Announce Longhaul-order!

Fri Nov 17, 2006 6:19 am

Quoting Aerokiwi (Reply 24):
Regarding the XWB - Can LH really wait 8+ years for this bird? Has the -1000 even been launched? Has anything even been launched?

Nothing has been launched - but LH might be a launch customer (along with SQ)

however I think that this order is going to be 787s and A380s

[Edited 2006-11-16 22:34:06]
 
mptpa
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RE: Lufthansa To Announce Longhaul-order!

Fri Nov 17, 2006 6:28 am

Quoting Beech19 (Reply 21):
Is this really a written policy somewhere? or are you just speculating because of the airlines history? Never rule out anything... in this day in age where costs are rising a company will do what is best for its bottom line, now, today. Not just because they have a tradition of doing something contradictory to it.

Never say never. SQ used to only finance the a/c purchases from cashflow it generated, and now they are leasing as well.
 
beech19
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RE: Lufthansa To Announce Longhaul-order!

Fri Nov 17, 2006 6:34 am

Quoting Mptpa (Reply 27):
Never say never. SQ used to only finance the a/c purchases from cashflow it generated, and now they are leasing as well.

I didn't say they would never do something. I said "never rule out" and i was talking about them going away from "purchase only" to "leaseing also." Read my post again if you must...
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2wingtips
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RE: Lufthansa To Announce Longhaul-order!

Fri Nov 17, 2006 6:40 am

Re the GECAS 777 UFO order, it is pretty well known EK will take at least 5 773ERs from this and the order appears to be a 777F/773ER mix(not sure if 772LRs are involved). So, I'm not sure if LH will be a part of this.
 
Ken777
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RE: Lufthansa To Announce Longhaul-order!

Fri Nov 17, 2006 7:37 am

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 19):
could take advantage of the FedEx cancellation to get some pretty early delivery positions...

I wouldn't be surprised if the earlier FedEx slots simply vanished - moving customers already facing delays up a bit. While Airbus would like the additional sales shifting existing customers up a bit will help reduce the compensation they will have to pay down the line. Plus it wouldn't be the best in customer relations to sell more 380s and deliver them before the delayed planes.

On the LH order I'll go out on a limb (since there is no money involved  Smile ) and say 787/777/748i with some 330s for a short term lift.

This will be the first time we can see how the 748i competes with the 380 - AND the 777s. Should be interesting.
 
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Stitch
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RE: Lufthansa To Announce Longhaul-order!

Fri Nov 17, 2006 7:37 am

Quoting UA777300ER (Reply 17):
I must have missed the speculation/info on the 787-11 model. What is this variant expected to be?

It is indeed pure speculation at this time, but roughly it would be a bit smaller then the 773ER and a bit larger then the A3510 and A346. Length would be around 246 ft. and MTOW would be between 560,000lbs and 600,000lbs. New undercarriage and improved thrust engines would be required.
 
kaneporta1
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RE: Lufthansa To Announce Longhaul-order!

Fri Nov 17, 2006 8:48 am

787-8s and even 787-3s to replace the A306s.
787-9 or A350-800 to replace the A343s, that could go either way
A350-1000 to replace the A346s
More A380s

That's my guess, but I do see 787s and A350 operating side by side with LH.
By the way, is it a coincidence that the official A350XWB launch and the LH order are around the same time?

[Edited 2006-11-17 00:51:48]
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osiris30
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RE: Lufthansa To Announce Longhaul-order!

Fri Nov 17, 2006 8:59 am

I'm guess the order will not include 350's. There hasn't been enough time for them to decide to order 350s yet. My guess is 87s and 80s. (Sorry for any bad spelling posting from my cell phone)
I don't care what you think of my opinion. It's my opinion, so have a nice day :)
 
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Stitch
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RE: Lufthansa To Announce Longhaul-order!

Fri Nov 17, 2006 9:07 am

This isn't an "all or nothing" order, is it? So LH could order the 787 (and 777?) in certain models, but such an order would not forestall an A350XWB order five or more years down the line, would it?

If this is an all-or-nothing, then it's going to be a good day for Boeing as I can't see LH taking a chance on the A350XWB both while it's still in definition and there is no guarantee that it will launch when Airbus wants it to.
 
 
Sabena332
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RE: Lufthansa To Announce Longhaul-order!

Fri Nov 17, 2006 9:50 am

Quoting Johnny (Thread starter):
According to LH internal sources the expected Longhaul-order will be announced in December 2006 and not in 2007!

My sis' boyfriend's dog said that the dog of her boyfriend's parents knows something because it heard it somewhere from some dude, etc. etc.  Yeah sure

Sorry but these "I've heard something from company internal sources" threads are as useless as an A vs. B thread. Please mention a reliable source*

*A.net rule #8: If you have something to say, please do so; however be sure to mention your sources, perhaps with an HTML link or reference to a publication. If you are merely providing an opinion, please MENTION THIS in your post. We would like to avoid arguments based on rumors or misinformation.

When you simply want to discuss about the future fleet of any airline, then please make that clear in the thread title!

Thanks!

Patrick
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