Wingspan
Topic Author
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US/DL Merger: Remember This In The Future

Fri Nov 17, 2006 4:35 am

After reading hundreds of posts on this site regarding this little game of management chess, this one has hit the nail on the head. From the DL responds to US discussion:

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 103):
Seems to me like US just wants to eliminate an annoying competitor. Like AA and Reno Air, but on a vastly larger scale.

 checkmark 

In short, BBBBBBBBBBBBINGO!!!! Cliffs notes for anyone with half a brain and not an airline wannabe or armchair QB. Simply put from Airline Mergers 101:

Fleet commonality: Not there. There will even be sub fleets of the aircraft shared.

Route Network: Just a little overlap: only the entire east coast. Each hub cannabilizes one another's traffic on both the east and west coast.

DP is not the most versed man, but he's no fool. But a newsflash to all airline employees: If you thinks he cares about you and your personal situation or airline corporate culture, then you're the ones who actually deserve the pay cuts given from the past five years.

He probably figures this has a cold chance in hell of actually going through,
but if it does, he eliminates a competitor gnawing at their principal revenue markets. US (Now DL) would continue to grow internationally, keep only the principal hubs, and layoff the excess labor. The corporate culture would be the same artificial BS that always wins in situations like this, with each employee group and seniority system left to fend for themselves in a legal sespool that will take at least two years to appease through standardized contracts.

Afterward, should he be thwarted in the attempt, NW will be next in line. Of the two, the DOJ would move much faster to approve this, but I suspect he is motivated by something else. Namely to please a European aircraft manufacturer who heavily invested in it during its darkest hours and, if combined, would stand to benefit greatly from an international carrier needing to place massive orders for both narrowbody and widebody aircraft in under a five year time window to replace the majority of its aging fleet. Can you smell a massive shot in the arm in the North American market to that manufacturer? Checkmate.



Regards,



Wingspan
Over the years, I've found that common sense is not that common.
 
FCYTravis
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RE: US/DL Merger: Remember This In The Future

Fri Nov 17, 2006 5:06 am

Quoting Wingspan (Thread starter):
Fleet commonality: Not there. There will even be sub fleets of the aircraft shared.

Again, fleet commonality is overstated. Once you get to fleets that number in the hundreds, it really doesn't matter, you've got to have all that infrastructure in place anyway.
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timboflier215
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RE: US/DL Merger: Remember This In The Future

Fri Nov 17, 2006 5:23 am

Quoting Wingspan (Thread starter):
Namely to please a European aircraft manufacturer who heavily invested in it during its darkest hours and, if combined, would stand to benefit greatly from an international carrier needing to place massive orders for both narrowbody and widebody aircraft in under a five year time window to replace the majority of its aging fleet. Can you smell a massive shot in the arm in the North American market to that manufacturer? Checkmate.

Don't you just love conspiracy theories?! Are you seriously suggesting AIRBUS is behind this??
 
Wingspan
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RE: US/DL Merger: Remember This In The Future

Fri Nov 17, 2006 5:59 am

Quoting FCYTravis (Reply 1):

Again, fleet commonality is overstated. Once you get to fleets that number in the hundreds, it really doesn't matter, you've got to have all that infrastructure in place anyway.

Attention Armchair QB: Think maintenance, think spares, think crew training, and then think again before saying it really doesn't matter.

Quoting Timboflier215 (Reply 2):

Don't you just love conspiracy theories?! Are you seriously suggesting AIRBUS is behind this??

Ah, Toolbox, I never said they were behind anything, only that they stood to benefit from it, on a grand scale. Maybe your view is clouded from across the pond due to the fact that you are still a student, but the airline manufacturing industry is a global business. If you think for a moment that companies don't expect favors in return for other favors, then I suggest you focus more clearly on your studies at Leicester.


Regards,


Wingspan
Over the years, I've found that common sense is not that common.
 
FCYTravis
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RE: US/DL Merger: Remember This In The Future

Fri Nov 17, 2006 6:05 am

Quoting Wingspan (Reply 3):
Attention Armchair QB: Think maintenance, think spares, think crew training, and then think again before saying it really doesn't matter.

Armchair QB? Haha. Dude, you're posting on an airline forum. We're ALL armchair QBs, including your egotistical self. Unless, that is, you have experience in the boardroom of a major airline which you'd like to explain to us.

Doug Parker has said repeatedly that he is not particularly concerned about commonality because all the subfleets are extremely large.

As for your nutball Airbus conspiracy theory, Doug has also said repeatedly that US Airways is talking to both Airbus and Boeing about fleet replacement for the 737s - and he's also stressed the fact that he does not want US Airways to become a captive customer of Airbus. Thanks to the A350 debacle, US is losing its opportunities to open up Asian and European service from PHX.

Heck, I think half the reason US is buying DL is to get a hold of Delta's vast widebody fleet. Airbus can kiss that A350 "order" goodbye.

[Edited 2006-11-16 22:10:47]
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ksupilot
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RE: US/DL Merger: Remember This In The Future

Fri Nov 17, 2006 6:08 am

Quoting FCYTravis (Reply 4):
Doug Parker has said repeatedly that he is not particularly concerned about commonality because all the subfleets are extremely large.

And old! One of DLs largest sub-fleet is on its lest leg (sadly) the MD-80. I love the Mad Dogs but it is nearly a sure thing they will go if there is a merger.
 
petazulu
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RE: US/DL Merger: Remember This In The Future

Fri Nov 17, 2006 6:18 am

Wingspan,

Did you just cal someone a toolbox? How old are you? Why are you so bitter and why in the world do you think you know better than anyone else what is going on? You sound seriously deluded with your own gradeur.
 
Wingspan
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RE: US/DL Merger: Remember This In The Future

Fri Nov 17, 2006 6:51 am

Quoting KSUpilot (Reply 5):
I love the Mad Dogs but it is nearly a sure thing they will go if there is a merger.

I love the MD-88s too, and you're right, they would be among the very first to go in the initial, along with the US 733s/734s, and 762s, probably at the next D-check intervals or earlier. The 75s get a reprieve and would probably remain separate subfleets for some time because the lift requirement would be so sorely needed.


Oh yes, and to this mess...

Quoting FCYTravis (Reply 4):
Armchair QB? Haha. Dude, you're posting on an airline forum. We're ALL armchair QBs, including your egotistical self.

No, Travis. You see, some people who post here are actually in the airline business, and have the accompanying experience and industry insight that goes along with it.

Quoting FCYTravis (Reply 4):
Unless, that is, you have experience in the boardroom of a major airline which you'd like to explain to us.

To be polite, I don't have to explain squat to you. This has little to do with personal ego, but with relevance. To me, your opinion is about as valid as a kid who boards a 74 or triple and thinks "Gee, I can fly it in FS, so I can do it here too." If I need a PR lackey for something, I'll remember who to call.

Quoting Petazulu (Reply 6):
How old are you?



Sir, you can view my profile just as I can view yours.

Quoting Petazulu (Reply 6):

Why are you so bitter and why in the world do you think you know better than anyone else what is going on?

Because I'm actually in the business in a capacity that this discussion pertains to. Sorry amigo, but being a consultant who is a FF on the shuttle from LGA doesn't make you knowledgeable in this industry.

Quoting Petazulu (Reply 6):

You sound seriously deluded with your own gradeur.

If having delusions of grandeur is being informed, insult the few left on these boards who want to engage in meaningful debate and they won't be on this board for long, they'll just stay over at pprune and leave this place for the, ah, worldly consultants.  Big grin



Regards,




Wingspan
Over the years, I've found that common sense is not that common.
 
FCYTravis
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RE: US/DL Merger: Remember This In The Future

Fri Nov 17, 2006 7:01 am

Ah yes, the ad-hominem card. Quite useful when you can't actually accept the fact that people might disagree with your assertions.

Here's a clue, Wingspan. This place is a Web forum. People discuss things. They agree. They disagree. They talk. They debate, civilly and interestingly. We share opinions and ideas. What they don't do is make proclamations and then attack anyone who dares to disagree with them as "omg armchair QB, you're worthless."

Wingspan, here's a another clue. I don't care who you are or what you do, you're an armchair QB on this issue. None of us are actually going to have any say in this US/DL merger mess, because none of us are part of US or DL management, nor are we part of the DL creditor committee. Nothing we say or do here will ultimately have any impact whatsoever on what happens.

Doug Parker could spend $100 billion to buy out DL and replace every single airframe in the combined fleet with Beechcraft 1900s, building new hubs in ICT, DUJ and CIC, and none of your bleating would change that in the slightest.

"Remember this in the future:" - We're all just armchair QBs dicking around on the Internet. Yourself included.

[Edited 2006-11-16 23:06:54]
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bobnwa
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RE: US/DL Merger: Remember This In The Future

Fri Nov 17, 2006 7:03 am

Quoting Wingspan (Reply 7):
Because I'm actually in the business in a capacity that this discussion pertains to. Sorry amigo, but being a consultant who is a FF on the shuttle from LGA doesn't make you knowledgeable in this industry.

Your position in the airline business gives you special knowledge of the merger side of the business? I don't think so. How many merger discussion have you taken part in as part of yur job. Who were the carriers? What area regarding the mergers was your expertise in? You are coming across as a bit pompous.
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: US/DL Merger: Remember This In The Future

Fri Nov 17, 2006 7:07 am

Quoting FCYTravis (Reply 8):
Doug Parker could spend $100 billion to buy out DL and replace every single airframe in the combined fleet with Beechcraft 1900s, building new hubs in ICT, DUJ and CIC, and none of your bleating would change that in the slightest.

Now thats a good idea! What about ACT (Waco,TX) for US's new Asian hub??? Itll be nice to see a brand new fleet of A380's parked at the major airport they have there.  Silly
It is what it is...
 
Wingspan
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RE: US/DL Merger: Remember This In The Future

Fri Nov 17, 2006 8:15 am

Quoting FCYTravis (Reply 8):
This place is a Web forum. People discuss things. They agree. They disagree. They talk. They debate, civilly and interestingly. We share opinions and ideas.

Sure, and that's the point.

Quoting FCYTravis (Reply 8):
What they don't do is make proclamations and then attack anyone who dares to disagree with them as "omg armchair QB, you're worthless."

Funny, If I were to go online to a forum regarding your chosen profession and BS my way along when others were actually trying to engage in industry debate, I'd feel out of place, and pretty stupid to boot. Not to mention that you would know things seemed out of place.

Quoting FCYTravis (Reply 8):
"Remember this in the future:" - We're all just armchair QBs dicking around on the Internet.

See previous response.

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 9):

You are coming across as a bit pompous.

My apologies if that is the case. I am not an absolutist in my thoughts, but I must admit I get somewhat irritated when I'm looking to debate with industry people and armchair QBs are telling me I'm the one who is without a clue. Perhaps it was my choice in where I posted this thread.

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 9):
Your position in the airline business gives you special knowledge of the merger side of the business? I don't think so. How many merger discussion have you taken part in as part of yur job. Who were the carriers? What area regarding the mergers was your expertise in?

Bobnwa, I said my position is in a capacity that this discussion pertains to. That did not nor was it intended to mean an attorney whose specialty is in airline antitrust/merger acquisitions, and perhaps the word indirectly should have been added (Hint: Think an ATP on a desk in operations research/network planning, etc. for a major.) I suppose I was hoping to have some interesting debate with, probably people like you, with an airline background. Oh well, life goes on. Best wishes to all.




Regards,





Wingspan
Over the years, I've found that common sense is not that common.
 
FCYTravis
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RE: US/DL Merger: Remember This In The Future

Fri Nov 17, 2006 8:32 am

Quoting Wingspan (Reply 11):
Funny, If I were to go online to a forum regarding your chosen profession and BS my way along when others were actually trying to engage in industry debate, I'd feel out of place, and pretty stupid to boot. Not to mention that you would know things seemed out of place.

If I went into a sports car racing forum and began making proclamations that I knew everything and that anyone who disagreed with me was a know-nothing armchair QB, I'd come off right pompous too. That's what you did here, whether you realize it or not.

You made a statement. I disagreed, respectfully, pointing out arguments made by someone else. You could have said "OK, well, I disagree with your position, and here's why, and here's where I think my industry knowledge applies." I might still have disagreed, but I would have been enlightened by your knowledge and respectful of what you do on a daily basis.

Instead, you chose to stoop to ad-hominem attacks on people designed to silence dissent. That's your choice - but it doesn't spread your wisdom, nor does it make anyone respect you.

No, I don't work in the industry. I (and my employer) just fund the paychecks of those who do, to the tune of more than 100,000 paid miles in the sky this year.

[Edited 2006-11-17 00:52:16]
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TeamAmerica
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RE: US/DL Merger: Remember This In The Future

Fri Nov 17, 2006 8:37 am

Quoting Wingspan (Thread starter):
I suspect he is motivated by something else. Namely to please a European aircraft manufacturer who heavily invested in it during its darkest hours

 spit  Oh, Puh-leez! He is not "motivated" by any such thing. US has no obligation to Airbus at all. Remains to be seen if the A350 order goes to the XWB or gets cancelled altogether.
Failure is not an option; it's an outcome.
 
planemaker
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RE: US/DL Merger: Remember This In The Future

Fri Nov 17, 2006 8:52 am

Quoting Wingspan (Thread starter):
In short, BBBBBBBBBBBBINGO!!!!

It is abundantly obvious that when one company merges with another it is "eliminating a competitor." It is unavoidable.

Quoting Wingspan (Thread starter):
Fleet commonality: Not there. There will even be sub fleets of the aircraft shared.

Route Network: Just a little overlap: only the entire east coast. Each hub cannabilizes one another's traffic on both the east and west coast.

What, the $1.65-billion in annual savings from the merger that DP estimates isn't a good thing?

BTW, the fleet issue is dealt with over time (although there are immediate benefits). And where there is route overlap, aside from giving the merged carrier critical market share in a lot of markets, it is actually a good thing in many respects (e.g. it allows the merged carrier to swap in larger aircraft with lower CASMs - and get rid of a lot of 50-seat RJs, more effective use of ground assets, including slots, etc, etc.)
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
 
baw716
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RE: US/DL Merger: Remember This In The Future

Fri Nov 17, 2006 8:54 am

Wingspan,
Read my post on the other thread. I think you have a very valid point.
baw716
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Tango-Bravo
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RE: US/DL Merger: Remember This In The Future

Fri Nov 17, 2006 9:05 am

Quoting Wingspan (Thread starter):
DP is not the most versed man, but he's no fool.

...but perhaps the HP/US merger has infected him with an acute case of egomania?
 
timboflier215
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RE: US/DL Merger: Remember This In The Future

Fri Nov 17, 2006 9:29 am

Quoting Wingspan (Reply 3):
I never said they were behind anything, only that they stood to benefit from it,

Indeed you did not explicitly say any such thing, but I thought that it was implied from the tone of your post. I apologise if I mis-read what you are trying to say. While Aiburs *may* gain from this (although that is highly dubious, as I personally believe the merged US/DL would buy Boeing), I can't imagine that they'd have any active role in the merger.

Quoting Tango-Bravo (Reply 16):

Surely the US board, and others within the company would have had a say on whether or not US should make an approach?? If it was just to please Doug Parker's eager, then hope they would say "no" to any offer being made.
 
Charger
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RE: US/DL Merger: Remember This In The Future

Fri Nov 17, 2006 9:40 am

Quoting Wingspan (Thread starter):
DP is not the most versed man, but he's no fool. But a newsflash to all airline employees: If you thinks he cares about you and your personal situation or airline corporate culture, then you're the ones who actually deserve the pay cuts given from the past five years

Agree 100%. Parker could care less who stays or who go's. As long as his pockets are being lined with green stuff he don't care.

Quoting Wingspan (Thread starter):
He probably figures this has a cold chance in hell of actually going through,
but if it does, he eliminates a competitor gnawing at their principal revenue markets.

Or at least slowing down their expansion plans for a while.

Quoting Wingspan (Thread starter):
Namely to please a European aircraft manufacturer who heavily invested in it during its darkest hours and, if combined, would stand to benefit greatly from an international carrier needing to place massive orders for both narrowbody and widebody aircraft in under a five year time window to replace the majority of its aging fleet. Can you smell a massive shot in the arm in the North American market to that manufacturer? Checkmate.

I don't necessarily agree with this one. I think Boeing will have alot to say here as they are one of the biggest creditors and they have to be looking at future orders from Delta once they come out of bankruptcy.

Quoting Tango-Bravo (Reply 16):
...but perhaps the HP/US merger has infected him with an acute case of egomania?

Agree 100%.
 
PSA727
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RE: US/DL Merger: Remember This In The Future

Fri Nov 17, 2006 10:15 am

Quoting Wingspan (Reply 7):
No, Travis. You see, some people who post here are actually in the airline business, and have the accompanying experience and industry insight that goes along with it.

Airline experts who have collectively lost how many billions in the last
5 years and have taken how many of their companies into bankruptcy
court?

I seriously doubt that this is a way to eliminate competition. If so, then
Parker should be trying to buy out Southwest.

Maybe it's a way to get NW to start making overtures to the US crowd.
That's a merger that makes more sense. NW would give US an enormous
advantage in the Asian market that US could never accomplish on its own.
fly high, pay low...Germanwings!
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: US/DL Merger: Remember This In The Future

Fri Nov 17, 2006 10:26 am

Quoting Tango-Bravo (Reply 16):
...but perhaps the HP/US merger has infected him with an acute case of egomania?

Couldn't be better said!!! If he really wanted to have a domestic network that the FTC/DOJ could support him on he would go after NW. If he played his cards right and wanted a good set of routes to Asia he would go after NW, as well as a few profitable routes to Europe. But in all reality Wiungspan hit this one right on the head about tryiing to eliminate a direct competitor first, even though I don't quite buy the conspiricy therory about Airbus being behind the whole ponzy scheme. DL is not at the gates of liquidation as Gigneil and other DL-haters wish were the case, and I don't see the FTC/DOJ approving this thing, in fact I see them throwing this thing out if DL's creidtors most notably Boeing, GE Capitol and American Express don't tell DP to go fly a kite first! Airbus is just too broke to be secretly underwriting this thing (unless of course they have secret government money piplines from the socialist governments of France and Spain we don't know about!), and is in a serious financial mess themselves with the A380 fiasco and the A350 debacle. Further as I see it, the $8 billion in cash and stock isn't going to cut it and has grosely undervalues DL and I quite honestly think it is going to take at least another $3-4 billion in CASH to get the three above large creditors who have the ultimate say in the finances of DL to drop the ball on their future.

[Edited 2006-11-17 02:27:28]
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jmc1975
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RE: US/DL Merger: Remember This In The Future

Fri Nov 17, 2006 10:26 am

Quoting Charger (Reply 18):
Agree 100%. Parker could care less who stays or who go's. As long as his pockets are being lined with green stuff he don't care.

You sound like an expert on Doug Parker.  sarcastic  Do you even know him????????
.......
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: US/DL Merger: Remember This In The Future

Fri Nov 17, 2006 10:37 am

Quoting Jmc1975 (Reply 21):
You sound like an expert on Doug Parker. Do you even know him????????

How else would you explain his actions? Of course hes motivated by money. Of course he doesnt care who goes. This is a horrible match as its obvious to most people. He wouldnt be doing this if money wasnt his primary concern.
It is what it is...
 
Charger
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RE: US/DL Merger: Remember This In The Future

Fri Nov 17, 2006 10:44 am

Quoting Jmc1975 (Reply 21):
Do you even know him????????

No do you wiseguy????

Isn't it always amazing that there are one or two individuals who have to bring these conversations down to this level???

[Edited 2006-11-17 02:50:25]
 
Charger
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RE: US/DL Merger: Remember This In The Future

Fri Nov 17, 2006 10:48 am

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 22):
How else would you explain his actions? Of course hes motivated by money. Of course he doesnt care who goes. This is a horrible match as its obvious to most people. He wouldnt be doing this if money wasnt his primary concern.

Exactly. Thank you!!!


Any CEO, COO, President, Vice President, or upper mangement's number 1 priority is $$$$$$.
 
ABQopsHP
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RE: US/DL Merger: Remember This In The Future

Fri Nov 17, 2006 11:13 am

As for getting rid of the compition? Its a dirty game, but someone is going to do it. Maybe its a good thing I went on leave after all.
A line is evidence that other people exist.
 
petazulu
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RE: US/DL Merger: Remember This In The Future

Fri Nov 17, 2006 11:33 am

Charger,

It's called capitalism my friend. Profit is the prime motivator of all economic activity. If it was not a top priority or PRIVATE enterprise, we would be a social welfare state (think USSR). If you prefer, you can move away or start or own political party if you want corporate leaders who do not want to maximize shareholder value.
 
atlaaron
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RE: US/DL Merger: Remember This In The Future

Fri Nov 17, 2006 11:39 am

I'm sticking to my theory that DP made the bid thinking someone else like UA will end up making a larger bid and overpaying for DL. He feels this will weaken someone like UA and US still comes out on top. US will then scoop up NW who they really want.
 
ikramerica
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RE: US/DL Merger: Remember This In The Future

Fri Nov 17, 2006 11:58 am

Quoting Wingspan (Reply 3):
Attention Armchair QB: Think maintenance, think spares, think crew training, and then think again before saying it really doesn't matter.

Nobody says it doesn't matter, only that it won't make or break a merger when we are talking about sizable fleets. The smallest subfleets in each airline would be the first to go, the rest would be operationally acceptable.

If DL can have a subfleet of 140 MD80s, why is it all of a sudden not feasible if DL+US has that same huge subfleet? Same amount of crew, spares, pilots, etc., etc. 80-120 737NG have crew commonality with the 100 737Classics. It doesn't make having 200 A320 family any more or less economical. The huge 757 and 767 fleets also work together even if engines are not common.

Commonality becomes more important when the fleet sizes are smaller (DL+US long haul fleet). It's the very limited 777 and 330 fleets that are the big question, as well as the FUTURE fleet direction (787/350 and 797/320NG).

Airbus, frankly, gambled on the idea that commonality would be important throughout an airline fleet and compromised some of their designs to achieve it (cockpit location of the A380, for example), but history has not demonstrated that an airline cares much about it when it comes to NB vs. WB, or even between smaller and larger WB aircraft. See SQ choosing the 777 along with the A380, QF choosing the 787 and A380, for examples. And airlines can operate two large narrow body families side by side (737+320, 737+MD80, A320+DC9, etc.)
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
Charger
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RE: US/DL Merger: Remember This In The Future

Fri Nov 17, 2006 1:09 pm

Quoting Petazulu (Reply 26):
It's called capitalism my friend. Profit is the prime motivator of all economic activity. If it was not a top priority or PRIVATE enterprise, we would be a social welfare state (think USSR). If you prefer, you can move away or start or own political party if you want corporate leaders who do not want to maximize shareholder value.

Since it is becoming clear that some on here can't read or just don't want to, I will clarify. I have no problem with any company merging as long as it doesn't become a monopoly. I simply stated that Doug Parker's main concern is money, which is true isn't it? Isn't that his job, to ensure a profit for the stock holders? I have no problem with that, and if that means getting rid of many jobs so be it. Many other companies have done it. My company has done it many, many times.
So basically I have no idea what your rant is about.

So I stand by my statement that any CEO, COO, CFO, or any other upper managements #1 priority is $$$$$. How many jobs are kept and at what pay rate fall well below that, and I can gaurantee that if the merger is successful, Doug Parker (and a few select others) will walk away with a big fat bonus check in his pocket. I've seen it first hand with my company many times.
 
gigneil
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RE: US/DL Merger: Remember This In The Future

Fri Nov 17, 2006 1:12 pm

Quoting Wingspan (Thread starter):
Fleet commonality: Not there. There will even be sub fleets of the aircraft shared.



Quoting Wingspan (Reply 3):

Attention Armchair QB: Think maintenance, think spares, think crew training, and then think again before saying it really doesn't matter.

Two words:

HIGHLY COMPLIMENTARY FLEETS.

That is all.

NS
 
cubastar
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RE: US/DL Merger: Remember This In The Future

Fri Nov 17, 2006 1:52 pm

Quoting Planemaker (Reply 14):
What, the $1.65-billion in annual savings from the merger that DP estimates isn't a good thing?

That's his projection. In situations like this the synergies seldom work out quite as well as expected.

Quoting Tango-Bravo (Reply 16):
but perhaps the HP/US merger has infected him with an acute case of egomania?

EGOs have been running this business for years and years. Many well informed financial people wouldn't touch airlines as an investment. A lot of money for a few people perhaps over short periods of time.

Quoting Timboflier215 (Reply 17):
Surely the US board, and others within the company would have had a say on whether or not US should make an approach?? If it was just to please Doug Parker's eager, then hope they would say "no" to any offer being made.

Let's again think EGOs.

Quoting Jmc1975 (Reply 21):
You sound like an expert on Doug Parker. Do you even know him????????

Quite frankly, instead of using common sense and voiceing wild speculations most posters here in A.net sound like they know everything about everybody.
 
planemaker
Posts: 5411
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2003 12:53 pm

RE: US/DL Merger: Remember This In The Future

Fri Nov 17, 2006 3:01 pm

Quoting Cubastar (Reply 31):
That's his projection. In situations like this the synergies seldom work out quite as well as expected.

Until they are detailed no one can comment on how accurate or not they are. However, even if he is 1/3 off his projections, that is still a lot of "synergy"!!

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 28):
And airlines can operate two large narrow body families side by side (737+320, 737+MD80, A320+DC9, etc.)

Yes, one just has to look at easyJet or airTran, for example... and they are all LCCs to boot.

Quoting ABQopsHP (Reply 25):
As for getting rid of the compition? Its a dirty game, but someone is going to do it.

The airlines have been sheltered... hopefully things will start to change, and for DP it makes business sense to be on the offensive and trying to control the process rather than having to defend later on.
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
 
NASCARAirforce
Posts: 2452
Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 7:27 am

RE: US/DL Merger: Remember This In The Future

Fri Nov 17, 2006 3:14 pm

There won't be a merger.

Boeing will bail out Delta like Airbus bailed out U.S.

Delta will be Boeing's b**** like US is Airbus's now. Delta in exchange has to order 50 new 787s and some nice shiney new 777-200LRs or 777-300s.
 
silentbob
Posts: 1537
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2006 1:26 pm

RE: US/DL Merger: Remember This In The Future

Fri Nov 17, 2006 4:10 pm

Quoting ATLAaron (Reply 27):
I'm sticking to my theory that DP made the bid thinking someone else like UA will end up making a larger bid and overpaying for DL. He feels this will weaken someone like UA and US still comes out on top. US will then scoop up NW who they really want.

It's also a situation where you're only going to merge one time from here on out. If they went after NW, there wouldn't be a chance to merge with another airline later. In most scenarios, merging with NW would make them (US-NW) the smallest fish in the pond again after everyone else pairs up. It also prevents any other airline from merging with DL and really becoming a dominant force.

I may be crazy but the US-DL thing makes some sense to me as there is something to be said for reinforcing where you are already strong. The ability to draw down on the regional side as well as streamlining the mainline flights is huge.
 
atlaaron
Posts: 973
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 11:30 pm

RE: US/DL Merger: Remember This In The Future

Fri Nov 17, 2006 4:16 pm

Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 33):
Boeing will bail out Delta like Airbus bailed out U.S.

I'm not sure that Delta needs bailed out. Although I was a little surprised with their weak Q3 numbers, I don't think they need a bailout. Nor is that why US is interested.
 
NASCARAirforce
Posts: 2452
Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 7:27 am

RE: US/DL Merger: Remember This In The Future

Fri Nov 17, 2006 11:40 pm

Quoting ATLAaron (Reply 35):
I'm not sure that Delta needs bailed out. Although I was a little surprised with their weak Q3 numbers, I don't think they need a bailout. Nor is that why US is interested.

Weak Q3 numbers may be due to bankruptcy costs. Northwest actually would have turned a profit too in Q3 had it not been for the bankruptcy costs.
 
jmc1975
Posts: 2884
Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2000 10:57 am

RE: US/DL Merger: Remember This In The Future

Sat Nov 18, 2006 9:32 am

Quoting Charger (Reply 23):
No do you wiseguy????

Isn't it always amazing that there are one or two individuals who have to bring these conversations down to this level???

 rotfl  rotfl  rotfl  Simply Classic!

Quoting ATLAaron (Reply 27):
I'm sticking to my theory that DP made the bid thinking someone else like UA will end up making a larger bid and overpaying for DL. He feels this will weaken someone like UA and US still comes out on top. US will then scoop up NW who they really want.

Shhhhhh....... nobody's supposed to know. It's supposed to be kept on the "DL"!  Wink
.......
 
diamond
Posts: 3000
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2004 8:01 am

RE: US/DL Merger: Remember This In The Future

Mon Nov 20, 2006 3:38 pm

Please continue all DL/US merger conversations in one of these 5 official threads:

Official DL/US Merger Thread: Fleet Speculation  
http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3105700/

Official DL/US Merger Thread: Actual News Reports  
http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3105698/

Official DL/US Merger Thread: Alliances
http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3105697/

Official DL/US Merger Thread: Express/Connection
http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3105696/

Official DL/US Merger Thread: General & Misc.  
http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3105695/

The following 29 threads are being locked.

http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3101120/
http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3101594/
http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3101823/
http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3102040/
http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3102235/
http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3102338/
http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3102343/
http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3103401/
http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3103695/
http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3104869/
http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3105230/
http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3099151/
http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3099206/
http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3099232/
http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3099274/
http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3099317/
http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3099484/
http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3099503/
http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3099505/
http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3099757/
http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3100017/
http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3100179/
http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3100287/
http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3100493/
http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3100550/
http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3100859/
http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3097793/
http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3097961/
http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3098201/
http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3098328/
http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3098984/
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