TL8490
Posts: 132
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2005 8:50 pm

DL Call NW

Fri Nov 17, 2006 5:07 am

If ever there was a time to make nice with NW now is the time. At least with NW you get a truely global carrier with access to Asia.

The best for both employee groups at this point is to merge DL and NW....

Of course, I am not a bankrupcy expert and am not sure if they can merge as part of the process or if one of them has to exit before the process can start but, as anyone who cares at all for Delta ....NW is the only alternative that makes sense.

BTW ....anybody think a loan from AF/KL could be run through Skyteam to assist with the merger???
 
milesrich
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RE: DL Call NW

Fri Nov 17, 2006 12:26 pm

You are correct. Jerry's Dream of no mergers is shot. How they did not see this coming, I don't know, especially if US was shopping around. Yesterday, the Wall Street Pundits said that $8B for Delta was under valuing it coming out of Chapter 11. There will be lots of politicians against this deal. Sen. Johnny Isakson, R-GA, an Atlanta area native, has already come out against it. Saxby Chambliss, GA's other Senator will oppose as well. So will both Senators from Pennsylvania, North Carolina, Utah, Kentucky, and Ohio. While that is only 12 Senators, they come from both parties, and Congress will scrutinize this. US Airways has already dumped BWI, and PIT. CLT, CVG, and PHL will be next.

It's time to go to MSP and make a deal, and then the creditors might oppose the US Airways deal. US, on the other hand, will make a fortune on Delta's bonds in this deal.

It reminds me a little of the rush to buy National in the late 70's, when the "experts" decided the value of the airline was exceeded by the value of its equipment, 727's and DC-10's. Eastern (Frank Borman/Pre Lorenzo), Texas Air (Lorenzo), and Pan Am (Ed Acker and Marty Shugrue) bid up the price and Pan Am walked away the loser and the owner of National.

Also there are shades of the movie Wall Street. Only this time, it's not the Charlie Sheen/Charlie Bryant character making all the trouble, but rather that bozos that ran Delta, especially Leo Mullin, Michelle Burns, and Co.
 
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RedTailDTW
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RE: DL Call NW

Fri Nov 17, 2006 1:45 pm

If Delta thought that US Airways would get the merger approved, would they go to Northwest and talk (I mean, if you have to merge, go with an airline thats reasonable)? NW i think is much more reasonable than US. Could DL secretly make a deal with NW before US Airways makes its move?
Airlines Flown: AA, CO, HP, MQ, NW, RP, UA, US, WN, YX / Aircraft Flown: 737-200/300/700/800, 757-200/300, 777-200, A319/A320/A321, DC-9-30/50, DC-10-40, ERJ 140/145, E170, MD80/83/90
 
NASCARAirforce
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RE: DL Call NW

Fri Nov 17, 2006 3:19 pm

Quoting Tl8490 (Thread starter):
At least with NW you get a truely global carrier with access to Asia.

A Northwest and Delta merger would benefit both sides - Northwest flyers gain Europe, Delta flyers gain Asia.

Quoting Tl8490 (Thread starter):
BTW ....anybody think a loan from AF/KL could be run through Skyteam to assist with the merger???

How about through Boeing??? Maybe in exchange for some 777LRs and 787s.
 
DLKAPA
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RE: DL Call NW

Fri Nov 17, 2006 3:24 pm

Quoting RedTailDTW (Reply 2):
Could DL secretly make a deal with NW before US Airways makes its move?

Probably not legally.
And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same
 
detroitflyer
Posts: 367
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RE: DL Call NW

Fri Nov 17, 2006 3:34 pm

i hope that if the two of them merge, DTW ends up being the largest hub. We really have fantastic terminals
Boiler Up!!!
 
TrijetsRMissed
Posts: 1978
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RE: DL Call NW

Fri Nov 17, 2006 3:54 pm

Well one thing is for certain, if they merge there will be an overhaul of the fleet and many planes will be added to the desert. In time, the DC-9's and MD-88's would be gone, and I wouldnt be surprised if the 744's were sent on there way too, probably turned to freighters. This is if the airline ultimately remained under the current DL management's control. For the fact that more classic aircraft will be retired from the skies, I hope it doesn't happen.

The fleet probably would become:
738's
763's & 764's
752's, & 3's
A319's & 320's
A330's

They may even remove the 777's from the fleet, which DL currently own. It would not make sense having only 8 aircraft of the type with a large number A333's.
There's nothing quite like a trijet.
 
haggis79
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RE: DL Call NW

Fri Nov 17, 2006 5:21 pm

Quoting TrijetsRMissed (Reply 6):
They may even remove the 777's from the fleet, which DL currently own. It would not make sense having only 8 aircraft of the type with a large number A333's.

actually I think it would, due to the higher range of the 777s. The A333 overlaps more with the B764, imho...
300 310 319/20/21 332/3 343 AT4/7 143 B19 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 742/4 752/3 763/4 77E/W CR2/7/9 D95 E45/70 F50 F70 100 M11 M90
 
m404
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RE: DL Call NW

Fri Nov 17, 2006 5:21 pm

What dou folks think would happen to the majority of NW ground service and CSA agents that are left after the new contract? With DLs creation of Global Services, how do you think it would effect the remaining "career" agents?

Many of us have looked for a merger/buyout between DL/CO/NW in some form for a really long time so if pundits are calling for consolidation this might now have a better chance.

One excuse for such combinations has always been to "lower excess capacity" With LFs running into the 90s what excess capacity are they talking about? Or would that just give more room for such as Virgin America and other proposed LCCs.
Less sarcasm and more thought equal better understanding
 
jycarlisle
Posts: 242
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RE: DL Call NW

Fri Nov 17, 2006 5:32 pm

Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 3):
How about through Boeing??? Maybe in exchange for some 777LRs and 787s.

A random thought ... seeing a NW T7 painted in the newest scheme.  cloudnine 

Quoting Detroitflyer (Reply 5):
We really have fantastic terminals

The last time I was at DTW it look like it had improved a great deal from previous times I have flown in. I would hope that *if* a merger were to take place and *if* DTW would happen to be one of the hubs, that it would help improve Michigan's economy.  Wink

Looking forward to the flight into DTW next week.

Cheers,
Jeremy
"CHANGE IS: CLEAN PLANES AND DIRTY MARTINIS" (DL)
 
DAL767400ER
Posts: 5084
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RE: DL Call NW

Fri Nov 17, 2006 6:41 pm

Quoting Detroitflyer (Reply 5):
i hope that if the two of them merge, DTW ends up being the largest hub.

I think, great terminals aside, DTW would be f'd up trying to operate 1000+ flights out of the McNamara  Wink .
 
TL8490
Posts: 132
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2005 8:50 pm

RE: DL Call NW

Fri Nov 17, 2006 9:57 pm

Jerry has always sided with shareholder value....he did it at Western and he will do it again here....the only difference here is he brought in Leo Mullin and he feels a little responsible for this mess.

Having US buy DL is like having Target buy Nordstroms.

AT the Velvet Rope Tour meeting yesterday Delta Execs said that this would not happen....not sure if that should be a sign of alarm or not....
 
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deltadawg
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RE: DL Call NW

Fri Nov 17, 2006 10:16 pm

Quoting TrijetsRMissed (Reply 6):
They may even remove the 777's from the fleet, which DL currently own. It would not make sense having only 8 aircraft of the type with a large number A333's.

Don't forget that NW placed orders for 787's & 777's. So, if DL had any say in it this would be there way into the 787 replacements for the aging 767's and keep the current T7's and augment with the coming NW T7's. So, even after a possible DL/NW merger it would be a mixed fleet but you would probably see it more Boeing in the future than Airbus. Also, remember that NW also has Embraer e-jets coming as well.
GO Dawgs, Sic' em, woof woof woof
 
hjulicher
Posts: 649
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RE: DL Call NW

Fri Nov 17, 2006 10:43 pm

Quoting DeltaDAWG (Reply 12):
Don't forget that NW placed orders for 787's & 777's

Really? NW bought T7's. This is news to me!
LH 442
 
CAL
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RE: DL Call NW

Fri Nov 17, 2006 10:44 pm

Ok i know NW placed an order for 787's but when did they place an order for 777s???
CAL........Continental Airlines....... Work Hard, Fly Right
 
DAL767400ER
Posts: 5084
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RE: DL Call NW

Fri Nov 17, 2006 11:02 pm

NW doesn't have any 777s on order. They were RUMORED to order the 777, but never actually placed an order.
 
NASCARAirforce
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RE: DL Call NW

Fri Nov 17, 2006 11:34 pm

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 10):
I think, great terminals aside, DTW would be f'd up trying to operate 1000+ flights out of the McNamara .

Better extend Concourse B and C further, and start drawing up plans for a "Concourse D" to be located between Runways 4L and 4R.

Quoting DeltaDAWG (Reply 12):
Don't forget that NW placed orders for 787's & 777's.

777s? That is new to me. I highly doubt that they would. There were rumors years ago of them getting 777s.
 
masseybrown
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Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

RE: DL Call NW

Fri Nov 17, 2006 11:35 pm

Quoting RedTailDTW (Reply 2):
Could DL secretly make a deal with NW before US Airways makes its move?

Neither Delta nor Northwest can do much of anything without the approval of the court. Beyond day to day operations, they can only negotiate and propose deals, their approval authority died when they declared bankruptcy.

There is nothing to stop them from secretly negotiating a proposal and presenting it to the courts, although I can't imagine how they could beat US Airway's offer to the unsecured creditors nor can I imagine them being able to get all the loose ends of such a deal arranged soon (by February).
 
JetBlueGuy2006
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RE: DL Call NW

Sat Nov 18, 2006 2:25 am

I would love to see a NW/DL Merger. IF that happened, I could see the hubs & focus cities as follows:

Hubs
1. DTW
2. ATL
3. MSP

Focus Cities
1. CVG
2. SLC*
3. MEM
4. JFK - International (DL)

* I could see SLC becoming a west-coast hub in the future

Just my .02
Home Airport: Capital Region International Airport (KLAN)
 
zschocheimages
Posts: 141
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 6:21 am

RE: DL Call NW

Sat Nov 18, 2006 2:38 am

Quoting JetBlueGuy2006 (Reply 18):
I would love to see a NW/DL Merger.

I agree completely. To me NW/DL are the best compliments of eachother. It wouldn't surprise me if this is where things head.
Why fly with 2 engines when you can have 3?
 
flysherwood
Posts: 881
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 2:58 am

RE: DL Call NW

Sat Nov 18, 2006 2:49 am

Quoting TrijetsRMissed (Reply 6):
The fleet probably would become:
738's
763's & 764's
752's, & 3's
A319's & 320's
A330's

They may even remove the 777's from the fleet, which DL currently own. It would not make sense having only 8 aircraft of the type with a large number A333's.

NWA has 50ea. 787's on order already. The 744's are not that old and would make no sense to just drop. Same is true with DL's 777's.
 
TrijetsRMissed
Posts: 1978
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 12:15 pm

RE: DL Call NW

Sat Nov 18, 2006 3:44 am

Quoting DeltaDAWG (Reply 12):
Don't forget that NW placed orders for 787's & 777's

I was unaware of that. Right after a large A330 order..are you sure?

Quoting Haggis79 (Reply 7):
actually I think it would, due to the higher range of the 777s. The A333 overlaps more with the B764

You might have a point there. It would depend on what routes were to keep and if indeed NW ordered 777s. I think it they would more likely opt for the A340 for fleet commonality.

Quoting Flysherwood (Reply 20):
The 744's are not that old and would make no sense to just drop. Same is true with DL's 777's.

Northwest was the launch customer for the 744, part of their fleet is coming up on 20 years. The DL 777s are about 7-8 years old. Not very old but not exactly brand new either.

Merger's between airlines usually include reduction because the size of the two combined is not always practible. Some of these aircraft would surely disappear.
There's nothing quite like a trijet.
 
TL8490
Posts: 132
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2005 8:50 pm

RE: DL Call NW

Sat Nov 18, 2006 5:12 am

Let's face facts...Boeing is going to have alot to say in this process and if they could get NW traffic on Boeing jets they just might put up some money. My guess is they are not all that wild about US Airways calling the shots and ordering the jets in the future.

Has anyone thought about a private equity group coming forward to take Delta and Northwest private right after they emerge???
 
detroitflyer
Posts: 367
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 11:01 am

RE: DL Call NW

Sat Nov 18, 2006 7:46 am

well

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 10):
think, great terminals aside, DTW would be f'd up trying to operate 1000+ flights out of the McNamara

Well detroit, is currently building a much bigger, better terminal..
Boiler Up!!!
 
planemaker
Posts: 5411
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RE: DL Call NW

Sat Nov 18, 2006 8:00 am

Quoting M404 (Reply 8):
One excuse for such combinations has always been to "lower excess capacity" With LFs running into the 90s what excess capacity are they talking about? Or would that just give more room for such as Virgin America and other proposed LCCs.

Excess capacity is not about LFs. Excess capacity is about, for example, not being able to raise your fares by a measly $10... even though the LFs are into the 90's!
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
 
deltaguy767
Posts: 634
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RE: DL Call NW

Sat Nov 18, 2006 8:08 am

I think that a NW/DL merger would work out much better over a US/DL one, however I see a few concerns:

1)Unions: After the NW MX Union fiasco is DL going to be prepared to handle more unions?

2)Fleet: The short and long range come into play here in terms of B/A. As the above have mentioned if this entity takes shape, we can expect the long range fleet to stay the same along with the medium haul, however with the multitude of rolling options of 738's that DL has compared to the amount of A319/20's NW has in the fleet, could we see NW just phase out the A's in favor of the DL 738's?

Obviously this is all speculation and a little armchair CEOing, but as the railroads did back in the 60's and 70's, the airlines are going to have to do the same thing which is CONSOLIDATE! Although I would prefer to see a stand alone DL come out of BK and survive, weather that is a reality is something we will have to wait for.

Cheers From BDL,  wave 
DeltaGuy767
A Good Landing is one you walk away from!
 
planemaker
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Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2003 12:53 pm

RE: DL Call NW

Sat Nov 18, 2006 8:25 am

Quoting DeltaGuy767 (Reply 25):
as the railroads did back in the 60's and 70's, the airlines are going to have to do the same thing which is CONSOLIDATE! Although I would prefer to see a stand alone DL come out of BK and survive, weather that is a reality is something we will have to wait for.

If DL doesn't do it now, they will have to later... and who knows what kinda of partner they will end up with later?
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
 
DAL767400ER
Posts: 5084
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:47 am

RE: DL Call NW

Sat Nov 18, 2006 8:27 am

Quoting Detroitflyer (Reply 23):
Well detroit, is currently building a much bigger, better terminal..

Which one, the new North Terminal that will be dominated by non-Skyteam carriers? That doesn't help the case of McNamara handling 1000 flight per day.
 
grrtvc
Posts: 188
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2003 1:15 am

RE: DL Call NW

Sat Nov 18, 2006 8:52 am

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 27):

Why do you feel the WorldGateway could not handel a 1,000 flights? In its current configuration, in an expanded, or at all?

In its current configuration I would agree it would be difficult to do. The typical turns per gate at a hub is 6 to 8. Taking into account that the WorldGateway is around 120 gates that would equal between 780 - 960 flight. Expand the B-Concourse by 5 to 10 gates and you have 1,000+ flights.

GRRTVC
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: DL Call NW

Sat Nov 18, 2006 9:30 am

Quoting DeltaDAWG (Reply 12):
Don't forget that NW placed orders for 787's & 777's.



Quoting Flysherwood (Reply 20):
NWA has 50ea. 787's on order already.

Neither of those things are correct.

NS
 
steeler83
Posts: 7391
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 2:06 pm

RE: DL Call NW

Sat Nov 18, 2006 11:30 am

Quoting Milesrich (Reply 1):
US Airways has already dumped BWI, and PIT.

BWI is nothing more than a spoke in the US/HP system, PIT is still one of US' larger bases with 160 flights, granted this is a far cry from the 500+ flights it used to have...

Quoting Milesrich (Reply 1):
CLT, CVG, and PHL will be next.

You think that the PHL hub will not survive? Sure, the facility sucks, but it most certainly has the pax to make the money. Although someone will bring up the argument that the costs of delays, baggage, etc... will ultimately offset pax profits, I am sure...

Quoting Detroitflyer (Reply 23):
Well detroit, is currently building a much bigger, better terminal..

Better? A really decent terminal already exists. DTW will be on the lines of superior once this project is completed...

As far as any merger with US, I say they consider NW... Both have large Airbus fleets, especially the A330 for int'l travel. Plus, NW has Asia, while US has Europe, the Caribbean and Latin America...
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
JetBlueGuy2006
Posts: 1482
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 5:38 am

RE: DL Call NW

Sat Nov 18, 2006 11:32 am

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 29):
Neither of those things are correct.

NW has ordered 18 with an option for 50 more:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Boeing_787_orders

http://www.zap16.com/civ%20fact/civ%20boeing%20787.htm
Home Airport: Capital Region International Airport (KLAN)
 
DeltaGuy
Posts: 3965
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2001 5:25 am

RE: DL Call NW

Sat Nov 18, 2006 11:36 am

Quoting Milesrich (Reply 1):
but rather that bozos that ran Delta, especially Leo Mullin, Michelle Burns, and Co.

Hey now, don't forget morons like Fred Reid too- the one who singlehandedly said that AirTrash wasn't a threat to DL's market, and also took several million in "retention" bonuses. One grade-A fucking loser.

DeltaGuy
"The cockpit, what is it?" "It's the little room in the front of the plane where the pilot sits, but that's not importan
 
NASCARAirforce
Posts: 2452
Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 7:27 am

RE: DL Call NW

Sat Nov 18, 2006 12:16 pm

Quoting Detroitflyer (Reply 23):
Well detroit, is currently building a much bigger, better terminal..

Bigger and better than what? The North Terminal is only going to have 22 - 24 gates (forgot which). The McNamara Terminal I believe is complete in Concourse C.

Quoting GRRTVC (Reply 28):
Why do you feel the WorldGateway could not handel a 1,000 flights? In its current configuration, in an expanded, or at all?

If Delta and Northwest merged, I highly doubt DTW would handle 1,000 flights a day. ATL would be the #1 hub, while DTW would be the #2 hub.

Not sure how much room there is to add on Concourse B and C, despite them adding 25 gates in the past 2 years. I assume there is room for another 20 gates, however Concourse C gates could only be for RJs. Concourse A cannot be expanded further due to the crosswind runways and their taxiways. Any further development would have to occur west of Runway 4R/22L, where there is room for at least another Concourse A size building between 4L and 4R, but it won't come to that.

DTW was handling over 500 a day in the old Davey Terminal, the Mac isn't anywhere near capacity yet. With a full build out of B and C, and some better efficiency ie better turn around times or a rolling hub operation, the Mac could handle 1000 flights a day. Runways would not be a problem either, just some minor delays.
 
flydreamliner
Posts: 1928
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2006 7:05 am

RE: DL Call NW

Sat Nov 18, 2006 12:56 pm

Quoting TrijetsRMissed (Reply 6):
They may even remove the 777's from the fleet, which DL currently own. It would not make sense having only 8 aircraft of the type with a large number A333's.

No dice. The 777 has the range to run a lot of current routes the A333 doesn't. The 777s wouldn't go anywhere, in fact, they'd add more. The A333 and 764s would be the heavy haulers across the atlantic, the 777s would be on the longer routes.

Quoting Jycarlisle (Reply 9):
The last time I was at DTW it look like it had improved a great deal from previous times I have flown in. I would hope that *if* a merger were to take place and *if* DTW would happen to be one of the hubs, that it would help improve Michigan's economy. Wink

Because of its mx and numerous other things, MSP would stay on, but most likely as a regional hub. DTW would be their big northeast/central hub.

Quoting JetBlueGuy2006 (Reply 18):
Hubs
1. DTW
2. ATL
3. MSP

Focus Cities
1. CVG
2. SLC*
3. MEM
4. JFK - International (DL)

* I could see SLC becoming a west-coast hub in the future

Just my .02

Primary hubs:
ATL
DTW
SLC

Secondary hubs/focus cities
MSP
JFK (atlantic gateway)
LAX (pacific gateway) Both DL and NW have talked about developing it.

CVG and MEM would be dropped, as DTW and ATL make them useless.

Quoting Flysherwood (Reply 20):

NWA has 50ea. 787's on order already. The 744's are not that old and would make no sense to just drop. Same is true with DL's 777's.

NW's 744s are some of the oldest 744s in existence.

Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 33):
If Delta and Northwest merged, I highly doubt DTW would handle 1,000 flights a day. ATL would be the #1 hub, while DTW would be the #2 hub.

Well, MSP and DTW together handle about 1100/day. If CVG were dropped and some of MSP's transcon and international stuff were transferred to DTW, leaving MSP as a regional hub, DTW would be inching up towards 1,000.


Their fleet would look like this:

744 (to be within 5yrs replaced with 77W)
772LR/ER
787 (to eventually replace A330 and 767 fleet)
A333
A332
767-400ER
767-300ER
757-200/757-300
737-800
A320/A319
E190

They would likely take on the rest of DL's 737s on order,and perhaps even a few more to replace the MD80/MD90. Likewise E190 would replace DC-9.
"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
 
haggis79
Posts: 535
Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2006 8:05 pm

RE: DL Call NW

Sat Nov 18, 2006 1:17 pm

the whole thing makes sense to me..... AF/KL would probably also be happy.... however, I doubt it will happen...  pessimist 
300 310 319/20/21 332/3 343 AT4/7 143 B19 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 742/4 752/3 763/4 77E/W CR2/7/9 D95 E45/70 F50 F70 100 M11 M90
 
ZKNBX
Posts: 440
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2006 5:24 pm

RE: DL Call NW

Sat Nov 18, 2006 1:24 pm

I second the above, that a NW / DL merger would be preferable to a US/DL merger, because there is less overlap., but it is still messy...

CVG is so close to DTW and MEM is so close to ATL... me thinks significant rationalisation.

NW lacks East coast capacity, latin american and atlantic coverage so DL is a winner for them and DL needs transpacific coverage in the short - medium term if it is to remain a serious player.

Quoting TrijetsRMissed (Reply 6):
The fleet probably would become:
738's
763's & 764's
752's, & 3's
A319's & 320's
A330's

They may even remove the 777's from the fleet, which DL currently own. It would not make sense having only 8 aircraft of the type with a large number A333's.



Yes - and No. 763 / 764 is close to 330 you are correct. 777 is a notch above. The combined airline would need a transpacific a/c.. however, NW are presently using the A332 on the transpacific to complement the 744. Fleet is a mess, frankly, with all those MD88 and DC9s.. would need a lot of work to sort it out properly. NW has some A330 commitments still outstanding (15 or so), and commitments for the 787 which is worth its weight in gold... to replace DL's huge 763 fleet. Contrary to reports above, NW NEVER ordered the 777.

Quoting JetBlueGuy2006 (Reply 18):
could see SLC becoming a west-coast hub in



Can't agree. SLC is simply not a coastal hub, by simple fact of its location. I also think the combined mass of DL and NW at LAX, SFO and SEA means that there is less and less need for such concentration at SLC... so you would see some rationalisation of operations. Ditto MEM. I would expect the combined airline to spin off MEM and focus on ATL... (i.e. ATL, JFK, DTW, MSP, SLC as hubs)... what about MCO?
 
NASCARAirforce
Posts: 2452
Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 7:27 am

RE: DL Call NW

Sat Nov 18, 2006 1:31 pm

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 34):
Their fleet would look like this:

744 (to be within 5yrs replaced with 77W)
772LR/ER
787 (to eventually replace A330 and 767 fleet)
A333
A332
767-400ER
767-300ER
757-200/757-300
737-800
A320/A319
E190

What would be the point of having both the 737 and the A319/320? How many 737s are owned vs leased? How many A319s/320s are owned vs leased?

I kind of think the leased Airbus narrowbodies would be sent back to the leasing companies. Some of the oldest owned 320s might just go to the desert, the newer ones could be sold off second hand. Airbus pilots that are kept would probably be trained for newer 737s coming in as the Airbuses are removed.
 
Jano
Posts: 744
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2004 1:48 am

RE: DL Call NW

Sat Nov 18, 2006 2:29 pm

Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 37):
What would be the point of having both the 737 and the A319/320? How many 737s are owned vs leased? How many A319s/320s are owned vs leased?

NW's 319/320
109 owned, 30 leased per http://ir.nwa.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=111021&p=irol-fleet

DL's 737
75 owned, 13 leased per http://www.delta.com/about_delta/cor...ats_facts/aircraft_fleet/index.jsp

Interesting that DL 737+MD88+MD90=136+88 = 224, NW DC9+A22X=105+109=214. I always thought that DL was much bigger in this segment than NW.
The Widget Air Line :)
 
grrtvc
Posts: 188
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2003 1:15 am

RE: DL Call NW

Sat Nov 18, 2006 2:57 pm

Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 33):
If Delta and Northwest merged, I highly doubt DTW would handle 1,000 flights a day. ATL would be the #1 hub, while DTW would be the #2 hub.

Wouldn't disagree that the likely hood of DTW becoming the #1 hub is a far reach. If DL and NW were to merge ATL would remain the #1 hub with DTW pulling #2. DTW does have an O&D market but I could envision DTW being more of a "process" hub, a true hub if you will; passengers come in, get sorted, and processed out.

Considering the economic condition of the DTW area, cheap labor could ultimately be what would keep NW/DL there. Just an opinion

I can't recall the max build-out of the WorldGateway but it was somewhere around 150 gates between the 3 concourses. It was anticipated that if the B & C concourse was ever built out that there would be another people mover installed. This of course would require a lot of work but that was the idea we had. Certainly there is enough room between 4L/22R and 4R/22L that at least two more concourses could be built.

Your point about the runways being more of a restriction is more likely once/if the B & C concourse was maxed out.

GRRTVC
 
NASCARAirforce
Posts: 2452
Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 7:27 am

RE: DL Call NW

Sun Nov 19, 2006 2:04 am

Quoting GRRTVC (Reply 39):
Wouldn't disagree that the likely hood of DTW becoming the #1 hub is a far reach. If DL and NW were to merge ATL would remain the #1 hub with DTW pulling #2. DTW does have an O&D market but I could envision DTW being more of a "process" hub, a true hub if you will; passengers come in, get sorted, and processed out.

DTW could become a #1 hub if NW took over DL, but not if DL took over NW it would make more sense on east/west routes - i.e. New York and Northeast region to the Western U.S., where ATL is a little out of the way. ATL is strategic for sorting out flights from the Midwest and northeast to Florida. ATL is more strategic for Carribean, while DTW is more strategic for Asia.

Quoting GRRTVC (Reply 39):
Considering the economic condition of the DTW area, cheap labor could ultimately be what would keep NW/DL there. Just an opinion

Well the Detroit area is historically a heavy unionized area, however unemployment is so high in Detroit people would be willing to work for relatively cheap (better than not working at all). Not sure what would happen between Northwest and Delta, where Northwest has a big union, while Delta is less unionized.

Quoting GRRTVC (Reply 39):
I can't recall the max build-out of the WorldGateway but it was somewhere around 150 gates between the 3 concourses. It was anticipated that if the B & C concourse was ever built out that there would be another people mover installed. This of course would require a lot of work but that was the idea we had. Certainly there is enough room between 4L/22R and 4R/22L that at least two more concourses could be built.

I never saw the latest ALP for DTW, not sure if any more runways are planned in the next 10-20 years, or where else they plan on developing on the field. I was using mapquest and photoshop one time just to see what DTW would look like with 5-6 parallel runways and a terminal located between 22L and 22R.

Not sure if you remember how some of the original plans for the midfield terminal looked or not. I saw an old Master plan and ALP with alternate plans made in the 1980s, its in the Embry Riddle Library, showing all these different places where runways could go and terminals. Then the Detroit Free Press back in the mid 1990s had a different design for the Midfield Terminal than what there is today. The original was for a large international/widebody terminal with 24 gates seperate from a smaller narrowbody terminal with a couple of regional/feeder terminals next to it. It was supposed to be connected by an underground subway that would actually run on a circular track to hit different spots of the terminals.

The B and C concourse could not have a people mover today like there is in Concourse A. Most likely it would have to be built underneath the concourse instead. Just no room for it to run above like in A.

If 150 gates were in operation in the midfield terminal, you could easily get 1000 daily flights if DTW went to a rolling hub operation rather than in peaks and lulls. There are times of the day when there are few aircraft occupying the gates, while other times it is hard to find a place for the planes to park.

1,000/17 is 58 departures an hour. A Northwest/Delta operation would need to be able turn around aircraft the size of an A320/737-800 in less than an hour, which could be done easily.

How many gates does DL have at ATL?

Quoting GRRTVC (Reply 39):
Your point about the runways being more of a restriction is more likely once/if the B & C concourse was maxed out.

It already is a restriction with A. You can't build out anymore because it would interfere with taxiways, aprons and runway safety areas.

I am not sure why they didn't build the Ticketing area seperate from Concourse A and have it connected with a tunnel, 2-3 gates probably could have been added to that area if the middle section where the world clubs, GM store etc is hadn't been put there.
 
Avion346
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RE: DL Call NW

Sun Nov 19, 2006 4:51 am

Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 33):
the Mac isn't anywhere near capacity yet.

 checkmark 

I was recently transiting in DTW during the morning operation and saw MANY gates in the A concourse that weren't scheduled to house any flights until the evening. Likewise in the B/C concourses. There is definitely room to increase capacity at the Mac, especially in the morning.
 
NASCARAirforce
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Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 7:27 am

RE: DL Call NW

Sun Nov 19, 2006 6:34 am

The A concourse has less flights now because a lot of mainline got transferred down to regional. That is why B and C got expanded, while A is underused.
 
floridaflyboy
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RE: DL Call NW

Sun Nov 19, 2006 7:31 am

I don't know what dream world everyone's living in. DL and NW are COMPLETELY incompatible companies from the fleets to the cultures. It wouldn't work, and I hope to god it doesn't happen.
Good goes around!
 
NASCARAirforce
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RE: DL Call NW

Sun Nov 19, 2006 9:29 am

I hope it doesnt either. Mergers are a nightmare to us spotters, but then again it is better than total bye bye like Eastern.
 
deltal1011man
Posts: 4549
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RE: DL Call NW

Sun Nov 19, 2006 5:15 pm

Jano

DLs current fleet is only the 738s the rest of the 732s are in a graveyards somewhere.DL owns all of there 737 fleet. They stoped flying the 732s in AUG.
 Smile
New airliners.net web site sucks.
 
diamond
Posts: 3000
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2004 8:01 am

RE: DL Call NW

Mon Nov 20, 2006 3:42 pm

Please continue all DL/US merger conversations in one of these 5 official threads:

Official DL/US Merger Thread: Fleet Speculation  
http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3105700/

Official DL/US Merger Thread: Actual News Reports  
http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3105698/

Official DL/US Merger Thread: Alliances
http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3105697/

Official DL/US Merger Thread: Express/Connection
http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3105696/

Official DL/US Merger Thread: General & Misc.  
http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3105695/

The following 29 threads are being locked.

http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3101120/
http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3101594/
http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3101823/
http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3102040/
http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3102235/
http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3102338/
http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3102343/
http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3103401/
http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3103695/
http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3104869/
http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3105230/
http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3099151/
http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3099206/
http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3099232/
http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3099274/
http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3099317/
http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3099484/
http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3099503/
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http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3099757/
http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3100017/
http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3100179/
http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3100287/
http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3100493/
http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3100550/
http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3100859/
http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3097793/
http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3097961/
http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3098201/
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http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3098984/
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