LHStarAlliance
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Lufthansa Giving Airbus 3/4 Year To Present 350XWB

Mon Nov 20, 2006 3:57 am

Mayrhuber has said to the Capital magazine that they will give Airbus 3/4 (three quarters of a year ,not 3 or 4 years ) year to present a new 350 version.

This means Airbus has until end of April to present it.

May we wait so long until a order comes or will they order the rest and in a half , 3/4 year order the 350 ?

Link , Sorry just in German :

http://www.capital.de/unternehmen/meldungen/694470.html

Edit : specify

[Edited 2006-11-19 20:20:33]
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slz396
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RE: Lufthansa Giving Airbus 3/4 Year To Present 350XWB

Mon Nov 20, 2006 4:08 am

My feeling is LH will SPLIT their wide body order amongst 787 AND A350XWB, in a way similar to SQ, possibly with the first type ordered already next month (together with more A380s) and then the A350XWB a few months later

In fact, the whole idea of splitting is a good thing to do since it looks more and more like the optimal size of the 787 is going to end pretty much where the ideal size for the A350XWB will begin.

By splitting the order you get the best of both worlds, no overly stretched range compromised 787-10 and no shrunk and bony A350-800 and provided you need to have sufficiently big fleets of both planes (20+) I don't think it matters much to operate both types...
 
Shinkai
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RE: Lufthansa Giving Airbus 3/4 Year To Present 350XWB

Mon Nov 20, 2006 4:16 am

If Lufthansa gives Airbus until 2009/2010 to present the A350XWB, then I do not see any reason for the office in Toulouse to be rushing or panicking at the moment.

Is Lufthansa not convinced by SQ's endorsement of the A350XWB?
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Johnny
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RE: Lufthansa Giving Airbus 3/4 Year To Present 350XWB

Mon Nov 20, 2006 4:20 am

@LHStarAlliance
"Mayrhuber has said to the Capital magazine that they will give Airbus 3/4 year to present a new 350 version."

-If you quote a german text only - pls translate in correctly! He did not say what YOU wrote!

He only said Airbus must FIX the specifications of the A350 in 6-9 month.
He did not say LH is waiting for a NEW A350-Version like you wrote!

All non-german-readers get a completely wrong picture of that interview after your translation!

Johnny
 
RichardPrice
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RE: Lufthansa Giving Airbus 3/4 Year To Present 350XWB

Mon Nov 20, 2006 4:20 am

Quoting Shinkai (Reply 2):
If Lufthansa gives Airbus until 2009/2010 to present the A350XWB, then I do not see any reason for the office in Toulouse to be rushing or panicking at the moment.

I think he means 'three quarters of a year' - 9 months, although end of April is only 6 months away on the outside.
 
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RE: Lufthansa Giving Airbus 3/4 Year To Present 350XWB

Mon Nov 20, 2006 4:20 am

@LHStarAlliance
"Mayrhuber has said to the Capital magazine that they will give Airbus 3/4 year to present a new 350 version."

-If you quote a german text only - pls translate in correctly! He did not say what YOU wrote!

He only said Airbus must FIX the specifications of the A350 in 6-9 month.
He did not say LH is waiting for a NEW A350-Version like you wrote!

All non-german-readers get a completely wrong picture of that interview after your translation!

Johnny
 
PlaneHunter
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RE: Lufthansa Giving Airbus 3/4 Year To Present 35

Mon Nov 20, 2006 4:24 am

Beim geplanten kleineren A350 müsse
Airbus allerdings in «einem halben, maximal dreiviertel Jahr» endlich
festlegen, mit welchen Spezifikationen das Flugzeug auf den Markt
komme.


Which means Airbus should finalize the A350's specifications between May 2007 and August 2007 at the latest.


PH
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LHStarAlliance
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RE: Lufthansa Giving Airbus 3/4 Year To Present 350XWB

Mon Nov 20, 2006 4:25 am

Quoting Johnny (Reply 3):
If you quote a german text only - pls translate in correctly! He did not say what YOU wrote!

He only said Airbus must FIX the specifications of the A350 in 6-9 month.
He did not say LH is waiting for a NEW A350-Version like you wrote!

I´m sorry If anybody hasn´t understand something well , I was in hurry , will not happen again ...  Yeah sure
But LH must wait this 6-9 months to order the 350 , if theres no 350 prsented they can´t order it .
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LHStarAlliance
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RE: Lufthansa Giving Airbus 3/4 Year To Present 350XWB

Mon Nov 20, 2006 4:27 am

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 6):
Which means Airbus should finalize the A350's specifications between May 2007 and August 2007 at the latest.

You get it ! I wanted to say that but didn´t found the way to write it
 Big grin
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atmx2000
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RE: Lufthansa Giving Airbus 3/4 Year To Present 350XWB

Mon Nov 20, 2006 5:17 am

Quoting Shinkai (Reply 2):
Is Lufthansa not convinced by SQ's endorsement of the A350XWB?

I'm not terribly impressed by SQ's tendency to believe Airbus claims. I think SQ was being too clever for their own good again.

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 1):
By splitting the order you get the best of both worlds, no overly stretched range compromised 787-10 and no shrunk and bony A350-800 and provided you need to have sufficiently big fleets of both planes (20+) I don't think it matters much to operate both types...

I don't think there is any basis for your premise that the 787 will be overly stretched with the -10 model. The question continues to be whether Boeing will make modifications that give it additional range at cost of more R&D and what will power it. The longer Airbus takes to get the A350 to the market the less pressure Boeing has to push something out quickly.
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Stitch
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RE: Lufthansa Giving Airbus 3/4 Year To Present 350XWB

Mon Nov 20, 2006 5:25 am

Quoting Shinkai (Reply 2):
If Lufthansa gives Airbus until 2009/2010 to present the A350XWB, then I do not see any reason for the office in Toulouse to be rushing or panicking at the moment. Is Lufthansa not convinced by SQ's endorsement of the A350XWB?

SQ's "endorsement" right now is just a paper one, though admittedly that is about all it can be as Airbus has yet to offer the A350XWB for formal sale. However, I have not seen any reports here of SQ showing strong, to say nothing of unequivocal, statements of support that they will order the plane, regardless of it's final form. SQ is also keeping 20 787 options in-hand which gives them some protection should they decide, in the end, to not take the A350XWB. And yes, they are also keeping 20 A350XWB options in hand should they decide to commit in a larger way.

I still see LH choosing the 787-9 and/or 787-10 as an A343 replacement. That is the least efficient long-haul widebody in LH's fleet so it should be the first one to be replaced. I also expect a significant option placement, as well, to cover them on the A333 replacement if the A350XWB doesn't end up fitting that role for them.
 
khobar
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RE: Lufthansa Giving Airbus 3/4 Year To Present 350XWB

Mon Nov 20, 2006 6:24 am

Quoting Johnny (Reply 3):
He only said Airbus must FIX the specifications of the A350 in 6-9 month.
He did not say LH is waiting for a NEW A350-Version like you wrote!



Quoting Johnny (Reply 3):
All non-german-readers get a completely wrong picture of that interview after your translation!

But Airbus is presenting a new A350 - this one with a CFRP skin.

I guess you were unaware of that.
 
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RE: Lufthansa Giving Airbus 3/4 Year To Present 350XWB

Mon Nov 20, 2006 9:13 am

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 6):
Which means Airbus should finalize the A350's specifications between May 2007 and August 2007 at the latest.

So, can/will LH order the A350 without finalised specifications?
Johnny, pertaining to your earlier thread on the LH WB order due in DEC, does this now mean that the order will be announced in stages with no decision on 787/350 until the 350 specs are finalised?
 
scaledesigns
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RE: Lufthansa Giving Airbus 3/4 Year To Present 350XWB

Mon Nov 20, 2006 9:52 am

Aibus can take as long as they want.LH keeps pushing the time line
up for them anyway.LH will order the A350.No need to worry!
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Johnny
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RE: Lufthansa Giving Airbus 3/4 Year To Present 350XWB

Mon Nov 20, 2006 2:37 pm

@ Khobar
"But Airbus is presenting a new A350 - this one with a CFRP skin.
I guess you were unaware of that."

No, i was not to be honest.

A CFRP-fuselage was one of the discussed options considered by AIRBUS.

But according my information only the fuselage-MATERIALS will change - so no NEW A350.Just other materials.
 
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RE: Lufthansa Giving Airbus 3/4 Year To Present 350XWB

Mon Nov 20, 2006 3:19 pm

Quoting Johnny (Reply 14):
But according my information only the fuselage-MATERIALS will change - so no NEW A350.Just other materials.

It's a rather major change.
 
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RE: Lufthansa Giving Airbus 3/4 Year To Present 350XWB

Mon Nov 20, 2006 5:04 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 10):
SQ's "endorsement" right now is just a paper one, though admittedly that is about all it can be as Airbus has yet to offer the A350XWB for formal sale.

Yes, I don't see how SQ's endorsement or intent to purchase an A/C that is not yet clearly defined nor even green-lighted would influence LH's decision.

But it seems, since the 350 is turning out to be a larger A/C, by enlarge, and with a different mission, that it will not be eclipsed by the 787 even though it's "late." They will not complete directly, it seems, but indirectly, like the 330 and 777 do now, as airlines research their future growth needs. Many airlines seem to want to wait for it, or at least until they find out what it's going to be, rather than order the 787. Innovations ilke the CFRP skin and possibly bleedless engines, I would imagine, are making the bird more competitive with 787 technology then earlier 350 proposals.
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kellmark
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RE: Lufthansa Giving Airbus 3/4 Year To Present 350XWB

Mon Nov 20, 2006 11:41 pm

I just find this whole A350XWB thing to be such an exercise of poor market analysis and underestimation of the competition.

By the time Airbus makes it actually competitive with the 787/777 products, if that ever happens, (since again they are using half measures, with a skin on top of a frame, instead of the whole fuselage being composite), Boeing will have moved another step or two beyond. They will not stand still.

Also, LH will make their own complete market/operational analysis of the products that they want to acquire. I don't think that whatever SQ has done will influence them in the least. But I do think that the jobs situation in Germany with Airbus, might have an influence.
 
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Stitch
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RE: Lufthansa Giving Airbus 3/4 Year To Present 350XWB

Tue Nov 21, 2006 1:38 am

Well Airbus appears to be ready to announce the "A350XWB Mk. II" - http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3105854/ - however, the EIS for the A359 is now mid-2013 at the earliest, the A3510 is now 2015, and I am guessing the A358 is 2015 or later.

I believe this plays directly into the hands of Boeing when it comes to courting SQ for more 787 and 777 orders and it may very well play into the hands of Boeing when courting LH. And this may improve the 773ERs chances a great deal, since it will be now at least a decade before they can get anything better. And adding a three-class 773ER fleet for the longest-haul missions (where the 773ER's fuel-burn advantages are most pronounced over the A346) this allows LH to keep their current and incoming A346s in two-class config and rotate them with the A343 fleet to meet high-season and low-season traffic demands.

I also believe this improves the chances of a 787-9 and/or 787-10 order to replace the A343 fleet and, frankly, puts the A333 fleet replacement in danger, as well, as it will be around a decade for LH to be able to get A359s...
 
LHStarAlliance
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RE: Lufthansa Giving Airbus 3/4 Year To Present 350XWB

Tue Nov 21, 2006 2:00 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 18):
Well Airbus appears to be ready to announce the "A350XWB Mk.

I hope so , wait until april would be terrible  banghead  I´m waiting for the order
since Juli...

Airbus management has done such a bad work in the last 3 years...

If they would had done it well there wouldn´t be 380 delays and no 350 "redesign" , I hope it improves ...  Yeah sure
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kellmark
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RE: Lufthansa Giving Airbus 3/4 Year To Present 350XWB

Tue Nov 21, 2006 4:32 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 18):
Well Airbus appears to be ready to announce the "A350XWB Mk. II"

Let's see, the 787 flies next year, EIS in 2008. The Airbus product will be at least 4, maybe 5 or 6 years later and still not match it technologically.(Totally composite fuselage, bleedless engines). And it may be too large for the segment. I think it would be much better for Airbus to rethink this whole thing and make a product that is truly better in the long term. They are late anyway. In the meantime they are still selling the A330, which has had some good success. Put some new engines on the A330 in the meantime to remain in the market and go push the A330F as well. They are trying to do too much at once and trying to hit a constantly moving target. At some point they have to settle on a focused strategy that will work for them.
 
LHStarAlliance
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RE: Lufthansa Giving Airbus 3/4 Year To Present 35

Tue Nov 21, 2006 4:40 am

Quoting Kellmark (Reply 20):
Let's see, the 787 flies next year, EIS in 2008

... If it´s on time... suspicious B hasn´t commented 380 delays
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Stitch
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RE: Lufthansa Giving Airbus 3/4 Year To Present 350XWB

Tue Nov 21, 2006 4:53 am

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 21):
... If it´s on time... suspicious B hasn´t commented 380 delays...

Probably because Boeing's management team are professional enough to know it would be unseemly to trash-talk the A380 program and they'd look like hypocrites if the 787 program is delayed even one day past schedule.
 
kellmark
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RE: Lufthansa Giving Airbus 3/4 Year To Present 350XWB

Tue Nov 21, 2006 4:59 am

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 21):
If it´s on time... suspicious B hasn´t commented 380 delays



It is an agressive schedule, but Boeing has stated that they are on time and within the performance promises to the customer, although they are still trying to reduce weight further.

As far as not saying anything about A380 delays, Boeing is being very smart and professional about it. Their answer is to make a better product
and deliver it on time. That is worth a million words and they know it.

What Boeing is really doing here is not just produce a new revolutionary aircraft, but to re-invent the way it produces them as well. I think that is where the real problems with Airbus are. They have to re-invent themselves as well, and of course that is an extremely difficult thing to do in their situation of ownership, structure, politics, etc. It is going to be interesting how this turns out.
 
LHStarAlliance
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RE: Lufthansa Giving Airbus 3/4 Year To Present 350XWB

Tue Nov 21, 2006 5:00 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 22):
Probably because Boeing's management team are professional enough to know it would be unseemly to trash-talk the A380 program and they'd look like hypocrites if the 787 program is delayed even one day past schedule.

Most possible thats the reason...
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DfwRevolution
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RE: Lufthansa Giving Airbus 3/4 Year To Present 35

Tue Nov 21, 2006 5:03 am

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Thread starter):
Mayrhuber has said to the Capital magazine that they will give Airbus 3/4 (three quarters of a year ,not 3 or 4 years ) year to present a new 350 version.

Then what? LH will give Airbus more time?  Yeah sure

Remember in 2003 when LH said they weren't interested in the 787 if Boeing equipped the aircraft with yoke controls? After three years, they continue to delay their RFP order so that Airbus can go back and revise the A350.

LH is finding every reason not to order the 787, so they might as well just place a speculative A350 LOI today.

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 1):
By splitting the order you get the best of both worlds, no overly stretched range compromised 787-10

There is noting "overly stretched" about the 787-10. In actuality, the 787 would make an excellent 300-320 seat aircraft. You know very little about the 787 platform, as Boeing optimized the airframe and wings for growth well beyond the 787-9.

The problem is engine thrust. Neither Ge or Rolls Royce has committed to developing a powerplant option with +80,000 lbf take-off thrust. Boeing has on-paper one of the most efficient aircraft ever developed, but they are waiting on the engine OEM to find a way to get it off the ground...

Quoting Stitch (Reply 18):
I also believe this improves the chances of a 787-9 and/or 787-10 order to replace the A343 fleet and, frankly, puts the A333 fleet replacement in danger, as well, as it will be around a decade for LH to be able to get A359s...

I can only see this as hurting Boeing's chance. At this late date in the 787 program, the -8 and -9 are essentially firmed whereas Airbus can re-draw their "paper plane" to whatever LH wants.

Allowing Airbus an additional 3 quarters to develop a competitive A350 is essentially saying: "We're buying your product, so go back to the drawing board and meet these specifications."
 
osiris30
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RE: Lufthansa Giving Airbus 3/4 Year To Present 350XWB

Tue Nov 21, 2006 5:07 am

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 21):
... If it´s on time... suspicious B hasn´t commented 380 delays

No, Boeing has commented on them... several times including statements to the effect of:

"We don't expect the 380 delays will impact us" and "We're sure Airbus will get their problems sorted out, we wish them the best".

Why would Boeing comment anything beyond that? The 380 is Airbus's nightmare, and Boeing is in not position to comment on it. Had Airbus not poo-poo-ed the 787 so much they might not have so much egg on their face right now.

As for the 787 (which Boeing has control over) they have stated pretty much exactly where they are: About 4-5K lbs over Boeing's target weight (not customers), and on schedule time wise, with some manufacturing issues here and there that they are working through, and have planned alternate paths for should they become a problem.

What more is there for Boeing to say? (I doubt you'll hear terms like "cheap plastic copy" from Boeing)
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Stitch
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RE: Lufthansa Giving Airbus 3/4 Year To Present 350XWB

Tue Nov 21, 2006 5:10 am

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 25):
I can only see this as hurting Boeing's chance. At this late date in the 787 program, the -8 and -9 are essentially firmed whereas Airbus can re-draw their "paper plane" to whatever LH wants.

Allowing Airbus an additional 3 quarters to develop a competitive A350 is essentially saying: "We're buying your product, so go back to the drawing board and meet these specifications."

Yet can LH both wait a decade (or more) for the A350XWB to finally EIS and then hope that the A350XWB family is as efficient or more-so then the 787 family when it does?
 
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RE: Lufthansa Giving Airbus 3/4 Year To Present 350XWB

Tue Nov 21, 2006 5:14 am

Quoting Osiris30 (Reply 26):
we wish them the best".

American fair play...
 Wow!  Silly I like this

Quoting Osiris30 (Reply 26):
What more is there for Boeing to say?

I don´t mind about A or B , I´m sure A and B play fair game , and I love B and A A/C...
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sstsomeday
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RE: Lufthansa Giving Airbus 3/4 Year To Present 350XWB

Tue Nov 21, 2006 5:31 am

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 25):
Remember in 2003 when LH said they weren't interested in the 787 if Boeing equipped the aircraft with yoke controls? After three years, they continue to delay their RFP order so that Airbus can go back and revise the A350.

LH is finding every reason not to order the 787, so they might as well just place a speculative A350 LOI today.

I wish I could understand this.

1) Is it commonality to LH's fleet or future fleet?
2) Is it political (German aerospace jobs on the line, pressure from German government)?
3) Do they anticipate launch-customer discounts or customising?
4) Is it prejudice or national pride? Would Germans revolt at the idea of their national carrier snubbing the home-grown 350?
5) Is it the larger size/capacity projected for the first 350 production models? So really, is it a different class of A/C altogether that they are holding out for? Is the first 350 variant projected to have more range or something?

There must be logical reasons for airlines to dig in and wait for a yet undefined, future A/C when there are more and more production slots available for the 787 prior to 350 AIS at that get's pushed forward.

Somebody explain it to me? I suspect it's mostly reason #2 and #4... for Lufthansa. But for an Asian airline or American leasing company to take the same position is baffling to me.
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Shenzhen
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RE: Lufthansa Giving Airbus 3/4 Year To Present 350XWB

Tue Nov 21, 2006 5:46 am

Quoting SSTsomeday (Reply 29):
Somebody explain it to me? I suspect it's mostly reason #2 and #4... for Lufthansa. But for an Asian airline or American leasing company to take the same position is baffling to me.

It might have to do with Boeing understanding that Airbus doesn't really have a competing model in the 787/777 market, therefore they are less likely to discount to the level that these airlines believe they deserve.

Some here think that Boeing and Airbus will offer the world to get an airlines order, which might not be so true when there isn't a model that is very competitive in todays operating environment from the competing OEM.

A 6 -9 month delay could save the airline 100 million or more on a 10 frame purchase if an alternative is available.

Cheers
 
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Stitch
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RE: Lufthansa Giving Airbus 3/4 Year To Present 350XWB

Tue Nov 21, 2006 6:00 am

My guess? Airbus successfully "bluffed" companies to wait for the "better" A350 rather then order the 787. And those companies have now missed out on the first wave of smaller widebody replacements.

Now, you'd think that would honk them off and influence them not to order Airbus, but those airlines are pragmatists. They've already "missed the boat" and have to wait, so now that the A350's 2010 EIS was the same time they could get 787 slots, they might as well wait and see if the A350 really would be better, though the more fore-sighted companies placed deposits with Boeing for the 787 for 2010-2011 slots.

So Airbus rolls out the A350XWB "Mk. I" with an EIS now of 2011 instead of 2010. But it's bigger. And some of the RFP's against the 787 still show it not being "better". So Airbus goes back and decides that CFRP, while still "dangerous", can be made less-so by applying it in panels instead of as a continuously-laid barrel section. And that will add at least two years to the EIS.

I believe now is when fleet decisions have to be made for many of those on the sidelines. For those airlines who hedged their bets and reserved 787 slots, I believe they will now execute them just to be sure they have something. Worst case, they can sell them back to Boeing before the frames reach the "customer customization" point and Boeing can then re-sell them or shuffle production slots.

For those who didn't, they now have to wait until 2013 for either plane, but with the 787 's 2013 availability being driven by lack of supply due to demand and the A350's availability being driven by constant program revisions and updates, I think many are going to choose Boeing.

Some of those may hedge their bets and LoI/MoU both and pray Boeing will increase production on the main line and/or start a second so they don't have to wait until 2013 for delivery.

I'll be honest. At this point in the A350 program, I believe that many, if not most, of the airlines who buy it will buy it because it's an Airbus and for whatever reasons, Airbus is all they're going to buy. In my view, it is no longer about being "the right plane at the right time" unless you're a start-up in 2013.

I know that goes against everything I have said before about the A350XWB. And I am sure people can show me cases where current fleets are new enough that a 2013+ replacement date is the right time, which is why I will not make an absolute statement. But it appears to me that Airbus has just waited to long, for whatever reason(s), and now is just too far behind the eight-ball right now.

I understand they have to do something. Airbus finds itself now with the A330/A340 vs. the 787/77W where Boeing found itself with the 737 Classic vs. the A320. The right call now might very well be the "traditional" Al-Li A350 and A350XWB (A360?) combination. Hopefully you can do both for around $8 billion, leveraging a lot of the A330/A340 to do the A350 and minimizing the extra production line work for the "A360". And get both into the air in 2012.

No, the A350 is not going to be as good as the 787 but it will be a lot closer then the A330. And the "A360" should be better then the 77W and Boeing is not going to rush out and launch Y3 on top of it.

Boeing has done darn well with the 737NG, even though the A320 has her advantages. I believe Airbus can do well with the A350 and A360. For if they go with a CFRP-paneled A350XWB and it isn't what Airbus expects/hopes/needs it to be...  covereyes 
 
LHStarAlliance
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RE: Lufthansa Giving Airbus 3/4 Year To Present 350XWB

Tue Nov 21, 2006 6:11 am

No airline goes Airbus , because it´s airbus , They´ll buy A if they present a good
work on the 350XWB if it´s bad like the original 350 , no commitments will come ...
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RE: Lufthansa Giving Airbus 3/4 Year To Present 350XWB

Tue Nov 21, 2006 6:21 am

Quoting SSTsomeday (Reply 29):
Is it political (German aerospace jobs on the line, pressure from German government)?

LH is a 100% private company. The government has no say in what LH should order or not.

Quoting SSTsomeday (Reply 29):
Is it prejudice or national pride? Would Germans revolt at the idea of their national carrier snubbing the home-grown 350?

Definitely not. Whether LH orders from Airbus, Boeing, Embraer, Lockheed or Douglas (if MD was still around) is of no importance to all Germans. They just want to get safe from A to B. Besides, when it comes to jobs, LH is a job machine. As PlaneHunter has said several times, while other companies are cutting jobs, LH is creating them.

Quoting SSTsomeday (Reply 29):
Somebody explain it to me? I suspect it's mostly reason #2 and #4... for Lufthansa.

Your suspicions, as I outlined above, are wrong. It's all about whether the plane can fit LH's business model and make money. No politics or public outrage will stop LH from ordering from Boeing or a company that is not European.
 
LHStarAlliance
Topic Author
Posts: 2096
Joined: Sat Nov 18, 2006 9:15 pm

RE: Lufthansa Giving Airbus 3/4 Year To Present 350XWB

Tue Nov 21, 2006 6:25 am

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 33):
No politics or public outrage will stop LH from ordering from Boeing or a company that is not European.

It doesn´t make sense to say this one time more , I´ve been reading a.net for 1 year and germans say this thousands times but they refuse to understand it...
Boycott The Olympic Games In Beijing !
 
osiris30
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RE: Lufthansa Giving Airbus 3/4 Year To Present 350XWB

Tue Nov 21, 2006 6:26 am

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 32):
No airline goes Airbus , because it´s airbus

That's not true at all. Plenty of Airlines buy only Boeing or only Airbus for various strategic and economic reasons.
I don't care what you think of my opinion. It's my opinion, so have a nice day :)
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: Lufthansa Giving Airbus 3/4 Year To Present 350XWB

Tue Nov 21, 2006 6:33 am

Quoting SSTsomeday (Reply 29):

1) Is it commonality to LH's fleet or future fleet?
2) Is it political (German aerospace jobs on the line, pressure from German government)?
3) Do they anticipate launch-customer discounts or customising?
4) Is it prejudice or national pride? Would Germans revolt at the idea of their national carrier snubbing the home-grown 350?

Perhaps all of the above.

As a side-note to #4, the travelers and local population rarely take interest in fleet planning. If there is ever a "revolt," it typically comes from local politicians..

Quoting SSTsomeday (Reply 29):
5) Is it the larger size/capacity projected for the first 350 production models? So really, is it a different class of A/C altogether that they are holding out for? Is the first 350 variant projected to have more range or something?

IMO, less likely than #1-4.

The 787-9 and A350-800 are essentially equal in size
The 787-10 and A350-900 are essentially equal in size

As for the A350-1000 that may eventually offer 350 seats, I think that's totally out of consideration at the moment. It would be 2015 before Airbus could have such an airplane in-service, which means launch might not even occur until after 2010.

With LH still evaluating the 773ER and A346, I think we can safely assume that the A350-1000 is out of consideration. That leaves the A359 and A358 which have like-for-like Boeing counterparts.
 
sstsomeday
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RE: Lufthansa Giving Airbus 3/4 Year To Present 350XWB

Tue Nov 21, 2006 7:35 am

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 36):
Perhaps all of the above.

As a side-note to #4, the travelers and local population rarely take interest in fleet planning. If there is ever a "revolt," it typically comes from local politicians..

I agree that the travelling public doesn't really care who manufactures the A/C they are flying in, but I think the German press might be a catalyst in raising public awareness to LH choosing B over A in a large order. And I could see aerospace workers in Germany becoming very vocal with protests, etc. But - that's all conjecture on my part, of course.

I appreciate all of your posts with regard to my questions in Reply #29.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 31):
My guess?

Stitch, you are a wealth of information, and I always read your posts with interest.
I come in peace

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