targowski
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Pilot Still Allowed To Smoke?

Mon Nov 20, 2006 4:17 am

on a recent road trip, my sister insisted that airline pilots are still allowed to smoke cigarettes while perfoming their duties, obstensibly so that nicotine cravings do not interefere with the concentration needed to operate the airplane.

i find this contention rather absurd, though my sister lives in poland and perhaps the smoking rules in the EU are less strict here.
 
N702ML
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RE: Pilot Still Allowed To Smoke?

Mon Nov 20, 2006 4:29 am

Trying to find it in writing, but I recall from my recurrent training this past year at a major US airline that YES...pilots may still smoke in the flight deck.
The opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of Southwest Airlines.
 
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Aeroflot777
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RE: Pilot Still Allowed To Smoke?

Mon Nov 20, 2006 4:31 am

Quoting N702ML (Reply 1):
Trying to find it in writing, but I recall from my recurrent training this past year at a major US airline that YES...pilots may still smoke in the flight deck.

WOW?! Really? That's huge news to me, ever knew that was allowed!!

Aeroflot777
 
N702ML
Posts: 406
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RE: Pilot Still Allowed To Smoke?

Mon Nov 20, 2006 4:33 am

Here we go...

Taken from FAR Sec. 121.317 - Passenger information requirements, smoking prohibitions, and additional seat belt requirements.

(g) No person may smoke while a "No Smoking" sign is lighted or while "No Smoking" placards are posted, except as follows:

(1) Supplemental operations. The pilot in command of an airplane engaged in a supplemental operation may authorize smoking on the flight deck (if it is physically separated from any passenger compartment), but not in any of the following situations:

(i) During airplane movement on the surface or during takeoff or landing;

(ii) During scheduled passenger-carrying public charter operations conducted under part 380 of this title; or

(iii) During any operation where smoking is prohibited by part 252 of this title or by international agreement.

(2) Certain intrastate domestic operations. Except during airplane movement on the surface or during takeoff or landing, a pilot in command of an airplane engaged in a domestic operation may authorize smoking on the flight deck (if it is physically separated from the passenger compartment) if --

(i) Smoking on the flight deck is not otherwise prohibited by part 252 of this title;

(ii) The flight is conducted entirely within the same State of the United States (a flight from one place in Hawaii to another place in Hawaii through the airspace over a place outside of Hawaii is not entirely within the same State); and

(iii) The airplane is either not turbojet-powered or the airplane is not capable of carrying at least 30 passengers

[Edited 2006-11-19 20:35:22]
The opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of Southwest Airlines.
 
khi747
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RE: Pilot Still Allowed To Smoke?

Mon Nov 20, 2006 6:23 am

Last year i was travelling from Islamabad to Karachi on AirBlue.I went to visit the cockpit and being a smoker i was delighted when i was offered one in the sharp looking interior of the A320.If pilots do wish to smoke in the cockpit,then why not? It does'nt jeapordize the safety of the flight in anyway as long as they take the precautions that are required of them.Smoking was banned from planes for the comfort of non smoking pax,not safety concerns.Since cockpits are isolated environments within the plane,i see no problem with it.
 
supa7E7
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RE: Pilot Still Allowed To Smoke?

Mon Nov 20, 2006 6:58 am

After an engine flameout in poor weather, I can see them reaching for a smoke!

Sort of remember reading research suggests smoking can have positive cognitive benefits.
"Who's to say spaceships aren't fine art?" - Phil Lesh
 
DeltaGuy
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RE: Pilot Still Allowed To Smoke?

Mon Nov 20, 2006 6:59 am

I've been on the jumpseat several times on AeroMexico, and 9 times out of 10, one or both of the pilots will whip out a cigarette on the climbout, and smoke several on the way.

Being a non-smoker myself, at first I was a little bit grossed out, but with the constant airflow in the cockpit, it disipates quickly.

DeltaGuy
"The cockpit, what is it?" "It's the little room in the front of the plane where the pilot sits, but that's not importan
 
Analog
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RE: Pilot Still Allowed To Smoke?

Mon Nov 20, 2006 7:19 am

Quoting KHI747 (Reply 4):
Smoking was banned from planes for the comfort of non smoking pax,not safety concerns

What about the safety of the FAs? Smoking certainly was a workplace safety issue for them, just as it would be for an FO if the PIC smoked.

How do cockpit smoke detectors handle smoking? Do they ever go off from cigarette smoke?
 
bahadir
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RE: Pilot Still Allowed To Smoke?

Mon Nov 20, 2006 10:32 am

Quoting KHI747 (Reply 4):
Last year i was travelling from Islamabad to Karachi on AirBlue.I went to visit the cockpit and being a smoker i was delighted when i was offered one in the sharp looking interior of the A320.If pilots do wish to smoke in the cockpit,then why not? It does'nt jeapordize the safety of the flight in anyway as long as they take the precautions that are required of them.Smoking was banned from planes for the comfort of non smoking pax,not safety concerns.Since cockpits are isolated environments within the plane,i see no problem with it.

Could this be an AtlasJet aircraft?  Smile I hate smoking, as well as second hand. You can turn the fans on, get the air circulating, etc. but it still is really bad.
Unfortunately in some cultures it is ok to smoke in the cockpit while there is a smoking ban for the pax.
Earthbound misfit I
 
Sabena332
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RE: Pilot Still Allowed To Smoke?

Mon Nov 20, 2006 10:42 am

Pilots smoke like there is no tomorrow, I had very few jumpseat flights when smoking wasn't alowed.

The best one was a jumpseat flight on some Russian airline... 1 cockpit, 4 persons (two pilots, my best friend, and myself), 5 boxes (more or less empty) of Marlboro Red, 3 hours flight time, all of us are smokers...... draw your own conclusion...  rotfl 

Patrick
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CJAContinental
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RE: Pilot Still Allowed To Smoke?

Mon Nov 20, 2006 10:49 am

I seriously doubt it, you have to think whether airlines today would even employ smokers if they could avoid it, due to health reasons.
Work Hard/Fly Right.
 
lowrider
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RE: Pilot Still Allowed To Smoke?

Mon Nov 20, 2006 11:11 am

Quoting CJAContinental (Reply 10):
you have to think whether airlines today would even employ smokers if they could avoid it, due to health reasons.

Alaska doesn't, at least not for flight crew positions.
Proud OOTSK member
 
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BreninTW
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RE: Pilot Still Allowed To Smoke?

Mon Nov 20, 2006 11:12 am

Quoting Analog (Reply 7):
How do cockpit smoke detectors handle smoking?

I was on an SAA flight HKG - JNB when a passenger lit up in the lavatory -- the smoke detectors didn't sound at all, my nose, however, did register the smell (I was in my seat at the time). I informed the cabin crew, who checked that the smoke detector hadn't been tampered with.
 
DeltaGuy
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RE: Pilot Still Allowed To Smoke?

Mon Nov 20, 2006 12:45 pm

Quoting CJAContinental (Reply 10):
I seriously doubt it, you have to think whether airlines today would even employ smokers if they could avoid it, due to health reasons.

As much as I'd like to not have to smell a coworker's breath reeking from 10 feet away after their smoke break, unfortunately there's little in the US we can do about it  bomb 

DeltaGuy
"The cockpit, what is it?" "It's the little room in the front of the plane where the pilot sits, but that's not importan
 
Baron52ta
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RE: Pilot Still Allowed To Smoke?

Mon Nov 20, 2006 1:48 pm

Smoking prohibtion in the flight deck is decided by the governing agency of the country from which the aircraft originates. But then it is ignored or upheld by the operating crew since there is no one to tell on them.
 
HBJZA
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RE: Pilot Still Allowed To Smoke?

Mon Nov 20, 2006 8:40 pm

Smoking is actually also forbidden in the cockpit on any airline operating non smoking flights. However pilots do whatever they want in there once door is closed. Probably all pilots smoking in the Flight Deck are doing it in the company's back....
 
legoguy
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RE: Pilot Still Allowed To Smoke?

Mon Nov 20, 2006 9:10 pm

One way to clear the smoke from the cockpit quickly is to open the cockpit door, and open a cockpit window for 0.5 seconds. The smoke will be at the back of the cabin just like that  Silly
Can you say 'Beer Can' without sounding like a Jamaican saying 'Bacon'?
 
SapphireLHR
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RE: Pilot Still Allowed To Smoke?

Mon Nov 20, 2006 9:48 pm

I distinctly remember reading in the Serendipity inflight magazine for Sri Lankan Airlines that all their flights were no smoking flights, EXCEPT for their Columbo to Tokyo flights. Why this should be different I have no idea and it may have changed by now.
 
pilotaydin
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RE: Pilot Still Allowed To Smoke?

Mon Nov 20, 2006 10:13 pm

Quoting CJAContinental (Reply 10):
I seriously doubt it, you have to think whether airlines today would even employ smokers if they could avoid it, due to health reasons.

nothing of the sort, that's called discrimination, if you can pass JAR-FCL 3 medical requirements, a company can't impose such stipulations on your personal habits as criteria to empoy you....
The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
 
JAGflyer
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RE: Pilot Still Allowed To Smoke?

Mon Nov 20, 2006 10:21 pm

Would you say that there are a lot of smokers in the aviation industry period? I know I see A LOT of airport and flight crews smoking outside the terminal.
Support the beer and soda can industry, your recycle old airplanes!
 
AirbusA6
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RE: Pilot Still Allowed To Smoke?

Mon Nov 20, 2006 10:41 pm

Quoting DeltaGuy (Reply 6):
Being a non-smoker myself, at first I was a little bit grossed out, but with the constant airflow in the cockpit, it disipates quickly.

Constant airflow - did you have the window open  Wink

Can staff smoke in other cabin areas such as the crew bunks? Or do they all have to cram into the cockpit for a quick drag...
it's the bus to stansted (now renamed National Express a6 to ruin my username)
 
swissy
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RE: Pilot Still Allowed To Smoke?

Mon Nov 20, 2006 10:55 pm

I do not understand the fuss about it, I am a smoker and I have no problem not to smoke on a flight, regardless if some of the crew members has a puff in the cockpit.......
Had many flights between ZRH-IST and I had a chance to talk with the crew and yes we had a puff.... in the cockpit.

Like I am all for smoking out side...... but some of these so called "healthier" living people here think smoking is the one and only reason people die of cancer... (ever studied some environment pollution lately?) of cores not because you would have to sue yourself......(for pollute my & your planet).

OK just  flamed  me now....... Big grin it is Monday now...

Cheers,
 
beechcraft
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RE: Pilot Still Allowed To Smoke?

Mon Nov 20, 2006 10:55 pm

Non smoking police at Lufthansa applies to ALL Passengers and Crewmembers. It is not allowed to smoke in the Cockpit, or anywhere else on Board.

Denis
That's it! You people have stood in my way long enough. I'm going to clown college!
 
OV735
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RE: Pilot Still Allowed To Smoke?

Mon Nov 20, 2006 11:33 pm

A friend told me how he was jumpseating an Enimex (small cargo carrier, used to do a lot of UN missions and support for the Paris-Dakar rally) An-72, and how three out of four crewmembers up front were more or less chain smokers.

In my opinion, a pilot will always be much more aware of the possible consequences of careless handling of the cigarette, whereas a passenger might not realise that it might result in an onboard fire. Thus, if it doesn't disturb vision, and doesn't mix with cabin air, I see no reason to ban pilots from smoking at their own discretion (apart from healthcare reasons).

Cheers,
OV735
 
FutureFO
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RE: Pilot Still Allowed To Smoke?

Mon Nov 20, 2006 11:58 pm

No smoking is permitted in the US. AS gives you a nicotine test prior to getting hired. You must nicotine free for at least 6 months. That is why the smoking lounges in the terminals are generally filled with staff enjoying a smoke before they head on the next flight.
I Don't know where I am anymore
 
Analog
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RE: Pilot Still Allowed To Smoke?

Tue Nov 21, 2006 12:09 am

Quoting Pilotaydin (Reply 18):

nothing of the sort, that's called discrimination, if you can pass JAR-FCL 3 medical requirements, a company can't impose such stipulations on your personal habits as criteria to empoy you....

Perhaps that is the rule in Turkey, but elsewhere discrimination is usually only forbidden if it's against a protected class (like race, religion, etc.). The US does not hold cigarette smokers to be a protected class of people, nor does it hold bad pilots to be a protected class.  Smile

Besides, it's pretty easy for a lawyer to rationalize this: "We don't want our crew starting fires every 15 minutes." That's in addition to the health risk that smokers pose to non-smokers (I'm talking long-term exposure here).
 
md80fanatic
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RE: Pilot Still Allowed To Smoke?

Tue Nov 21, 2006 12:18 am

If it is possible to isolate the cockpit, airflow-wise....then perhaps it would be wise to construct a similar isolated environment in the back of the aircraft for pax who would also like to smoke. Or is it simply a matter of control exerted by the throngs of anti-smoking tyrants in an effort to alleviate yet another hissy fit on their part?

Thank goodness logic reigns supreme forward of the cockpit door.
 
DeltaGuy
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RE: Pilot Still Allowed To Smoke?

Tue Nov 21, 2006 1:19 am

Quoting AirbusA6 (Reply 20):
Constant airflow - did you have the window open

Yes, and my elbow was out in the slipstream  Wink Seriously, with all the fans and ventilation in the cockpit it dissipates far quicker than if you were in a closet the size of a cockpit with no fans at all.

Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 26):
If it is possible to isolate the cockpit, airflow-wise

The cockpit usually has it's own temperature controls and thus it's own fans/climate control, so it works alright.

DeltaGuy
"The cockpit, what is it?" "It's the little room in the front of the plane where the pilot sits, but that's not importan
 
soups
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RE: Pilot Still Allowed To Smoke?

Tue Nov 21, 2006 1:38 am

on Skytrax, one of Virgin Nigeria report,the pilot was smoking and passengers asked what was that smell. crew simply replied the pilot is smoking
Next destinations, Suarabaya, beirut, paris, Accra
 
airplanenut
Posts: 592
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RE: Pilot Still Allowed To Smoke?

Tue Nov 21, 2006 2:35 am

I was spotting at LAX over the summer and a China Air Cargo 744 flight deck was all lit up taxiing to the ramp...
Why yes, in fact, I am a rocket scientist...
 
iairallie
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RE: Pilot Still Allowed To Smoke?

Tue Nov 21, 2006 2:44 am

Many airlines have company policies that are more restrictive than FAA/CAA minimum rules. I have never seen a pilot smoke in the flight deck in 5 years of being an FA for several different airlines.
Enough about flying lets talk about me!
 
HKA
Posts: 142
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RE: Pilot Still Allowed To Smoke?

Tue Nov 21, 2006 2:47 am

I would ask a different question : What do chronic smokers do on very long flights ?

Immagine a smoker that is in habit of smoking at least once every hour.

He would go crazy.
 
David L
Posts: 8547
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:26 am

RE: Pilot Still Allowed To Smoke?

Tue Nov 21, 2006 3:01 am

Quoting OV735 (Reply 23):
In my opinion, a pilot will always be much more aware of the possible consequences of careless handling of the cigarette,



Quoting Analog (Reply 25):
"We don't want our crew starting fires every 15 minutes."

I'm sure the smoking bans are purely health related. Fires were not started "every 15 minutes" when passengers were allowed to smoke. I don't think they were even started every 15 years.  Smile
 
N702ML
Posts: 406
Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2005 8:00 am

RE: Pilot Still Allowed To Smoke?

Tue Nov 21, 2006 3:48 am

Quoting HBJZA (Reply 15):
Smoking is actually also forbidden in the cockpit on any airline operating non smoking flights.

Perhaps in certain countries, but per the United States FAR, it is still allowed in the correct circumstances. No smoking in the cabin does not mean no smoking on the flight deck unless, I am assuming, company policy prohibits it.

Quoting Baron52ta (Reply 14):
Smoking prohibtion in the flight deck is decided by the governing agency of the country from which the aircraft originates

Yup.

Quoting FutureFO (Reply 24):
No smoking is permitted in the US. AS gives you a nicotine test prior to getting hired. You must nicotine free for at least 6 months.

No smoking in the PASSENGER CABIN is permitted. Again...the FAR will tell you....its legal on the flight deck.

Alaska has a company policy, it is not basing its actions on laws against smoking.

Quoting IAirAllie (Reply 30):
I have never seen a pilot smoke in the flight deck in 5 years of being an FA for several different airlines.

I can say the same....several years of flying at several US airlines...have never seen it.
The opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of Southwest Airlines.
 
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anair80
Posts: 189
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RE: Pilot Still Allowed To Smoke?

Tue Nov 21, 2006 4:10 am

Quoting HKA (Reply 31):
I would ask a different question : What do chronic smokers do on very long flights ?

Immagine a smoker that is in habit of smoking at least once every hour.

He would go crazy.

No wonder there at times there are rude and aggresive people on certain flights, that suddenly need to divert for these people. They get nervous and go freakkking CRAZY~~~

One personal thing is that if someone lights one up in my area, whether it is on a plane or else where in a closed environment, i'll be FREAKKKKING PISSSED~! I simply can't stand cigarettes.
 
CJAContinental
Posts: 343
Joined: Sat May 27, 2006 9:03 pm

RE: Pilot Still Allowed To Smoke?

Tue Nov 21, 2006 4:25 am

Quoting DeltaGuy (Reply 13):

What aircraft do you fly then?
Work Hard/Fly Right.
 
David L
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Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:26 am

RE: Pilot Still Allowed To Smoke?

Tue Nov 21, 2006 4:29 am

Quoting Anair80 (Reply 34):
No wonder there at times there are rude and aggresive people on certain flights, that suddenly need to divert for these people. They get nervous and go freakkking CRAZY

Have you ever heard of such an incident where drugs or large quantities of alcohol were not involved?
 
CJAContinental
Posts: 343
Joined: Sat May 27, 2006 9:03 pm

RE: Pilot Still Allowed To Smoke?

Tue Nov 21, 2006 4:40 am

Yeah, do you remember the one with the swedish supermodel, apparently she went nuts. She was on her way to New york from london I think, had to land near labrador or somewhere.
Work Hard/Fly Right.
 
David L
Posts: 8547
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:26 am

RE: Pilot Still Allowed To Smoke?

Tue Nov 21, 2006 4:48 am

Quoting CJAContinental (Reply 37):
Yeah, do you remember the one with the swedish supermodel, apparently she went nuts.

OK, excluding "celebrities".  Smile
 
iairallie
Posts: 2326
Joined: Thu May 20, 2004 5:42 am

RE: Pilot Still Allowed To Smoke?

Tue Nov 21, 2006 4:49 am

Quoting HKA (Reply 31):
What do chronic smokers do on very long flights ?

Um they can plan ahead and bring nicorrette, the patch or any of the other products widely available. They have a responsibility to follow the rules and do what they can to keep their behavior under control.
Enough about flying lets talk about me!
 
David L
Posts: 8547
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:26 am

RE: Pilot Still Allowed To Smoke?

Tue Nov 21, 2006 5:02 am

Quoting IAirAllie (Reply 39):
They have a responsibility to follow the rules and do what they can to keep their behavior under control.

Please! Just how many sober, non-celebrity smokers don't "keep their behaviour under control" on long flights? They behave the same way everyone else does except they'd like a smoke. You make it sound so dramatic.

There have been air-rage incidents involving non-smokers, you know.  Smile
 
ktachiya
Posts: 1500
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RE: Pilot Still Allowed To Smoke?

Tue Nov 21, 2006 5:47 am

Actually, interesting....... Japan was the last country to have all its flights banned with smoking. I think its because the smoking population is so large there.......... But the first company who did in the world (Air Canada) is the first airline that did it to its flights to Japan.
Flown on: DC-10-30, B747-200B, B747-300, B747-300SR, B747-400, B747-400D, B767-300, B777-200, B777-200ER, B777-300
 
Analog
Posts: 1193
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2006 3:24 am

RE: Pilot Still Allowed To Smoke?

Tue Nov 21, 2006 11:35 am

Quoting Ktachiya (Reply 41):
Actually, interesting....... Japan was the last country to have all its flights banned with smoking. I think its because the smoking population is so large there.......... But the first company who did in the world (Air Canada) is the first airline that did it to its flights to Japan.

Japanese flights must have been pretty bad, even in the non-smoking sections. Last year I made the mistake of sitting a few rows away from the door to a smoking car on a Japanese train. Everytime the door opened I was engulfed in a thick cloud of putrid smoke (excuse the hyperbole).

That reminds me, didn't LH have smoking/non-smoking divided along the longitudinal axis of the aircraft (smokers left, non-smoking right)?
 
474218
Posts: 4510
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 12:27 pm

RE: Pilot Still Allowed To Smoke?

Tue Nov 21, 2006 11:58 am

Quoting Analog (Reply 7):
What about the safety of the FAs? Smoking certainly was a workplace safety issue for them, just as it would be for an FO if the PIC smoked.

How are the FA's effected, they are not on the flight deck they are back in the cabin, where smoking is not allowed. Maybe its the FO that smokes?

Quoting Legoguy (Reply 16):
One way to clear the smoke from the cockpit quickly is to open the cockpit door, and open a cockpit window for 0.5 seconds. The smoke will be at the back of the cabin just like that

First problem with your scenario is that due to the cabin pressure you could not open the window. Cabin pressure holds it in place. Second problem is that, if you did get the window open the air would not rush to the back of the cabin. But the air in the back of the cabin would rush forward to get out through the open window.
 
Analog
Posts: 1193
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2006 3:24 am

RE: Pilot Still Allowed To Smoke?

Tue Nov 21, 2006 5:53 pm

Quoting 474218 (Reply 43):

How are the FA's effected, they are not on the flight deck they are back in the cabin, where smoking is not allowed.

FA's were affected by smoke in the cabin when people smoked in the cabin (before the smoking ban). I was responding to reply 4.

I was not aware of any FAs ever being created by smoke though.  Wink
 
David L
Posts: 8547
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:26 am

RE: Pilot Still Allowed To Smoke?

Tue Nov 21, 2006 7:06 pm

Quoting Analog (Reply 44):
I was not aware of any FAs ever being created by smoke though.

Ah yes, the old "effected/affected" conundrum.  Smile
 
md80fanatic
Posts: 2365
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 11:29 pm

RE: Pilot Still Allowed To Smoke?

Tue Nov 21, 2006 9:55 pm

The whole thing seems a little odd to me. Employees can smoke while customers cannot. If it weren't for the customers, there would be no plane to smoke in (or to fly).

Would it be okay if chefs smoke in the kitchen while the paying customers in the dining area cannot?
 
David L
Posts: 8547
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:26 am

RE: Pilot Still Allowed To Smoke?

Tue Nov 21, 2006 10:04 pm

Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 46):
Would it be okay if chefs smoke in the kitchen while the paying customers in the dining area cannot?

But chefs smoking in the kitchen could easily affect the food that the paying customers are eating. I'm sure if a significant amount of smoke was reaching the main cabin from the cockpit, it would be stopped.
 
HBJZA
Posts: 283
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2006 6:23 pm

RE: Pilot Still Allowed To Smoke?

Wed Nov 22, 2006 12:35 am

Quoting HKA (Reply 31):
I would ask a different question : What do chronic smokers do on very long flights ?

I used to work only on European routes so not very long. But a few times it happened that a pax really needed to smoke one. So he would simply stay seated, light up his cig and smoke. By the time one of the crew member would realise or be alerted by another pax, he had smoked almost the entire cigarette. And as our rule was to simply remind the smoker that smoking is actually forbidden on board and that the next time he gets caught smoking he will be arrested by police upon arrival.
The pax simply said : Oh I didn't know it was a non smoking flight, I'm really sorry.........duh
Which ended as the pax being happy because he had a cig. and the cabin crew being very frustrated because he knew he got fooled but couldn't do much.
 
David L
Posts: 8547
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:26 am

RE: Pilot Still Allowed To Smoke?

Wed Nov 22, 2006 12:58 am

Quoting HBJZA (Reply 48):
The pax simply said : Oh I didn't know it was a non smoking flight, I'm really sorry.........duh
Which ended as the pax being happy because he had a cig. and the cabin crew being very frustrated because he knew he got fooled but couldn't do much.

I can't see that happening now.  Smile

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