highflyer9790
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BOS' New Runway 14/32 Now Open!

Mon Nov 20, 2006 12:08 pm

Finally, after years of protest and court cases and more, Boston's logan interantional finally has readied its newly built runway for action, to start thanksgiving morning! although it will only be used by commuter and regional traffic, delays should be shortened.

http://www.boston.com/business/globe...06/11/19/the_30_year_saga_of_1432/

See also:
http://cbs4boston.com/topstories/local_story_323182941.html

IMO, BOS could use A LOT more expansion, but is limited by land and neigborhood activists, and any massport monkey-wrenches thrown into the mix.

Well, at least its something!

highflyer   

[Edited 2006-11-20 04:21:19]
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SailorOrion
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RE: BOS' New Runway 14/32 Now Open!

Mon Nov 20, 2006 4:59 pm

Maybe BOS (like SFO, NYC and LAX) might try the HKG approach and just built some proper facility out in the sea  Smile

SailorOrion
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: BOS' New Runway 14/32 Now Open!

Mon Nov 20, 2006 5:36 pm

Quoting SailorOrion (Reply 1):
Maybe BOS (like SFO, NYC and LAX) might try the HKG approach and just built some proper facility out in the sea

Not with the billions of dollars airport and airlines have invested into the facilities at BOS.
That said, sure glad to see the new runway open. It sure has been finished rather fast. Now, BOS needs to be allowed to built that taxiway between the 2 4/22s.
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: BOS' New Runway 14/32 Now Open!

Mon Nov 20, 2006 7:14 pm

Quoting SailorOrion (Reply 1):
Maybe BOS (like SFO, NYC and LAX) might try the HKG approach and just built some proper facility out in the sea

SailorOrion

Actually, BOS has a lot of it's airfield built from reclaimed sea. It was the first airport, in the world to build into the sea. Today, some 80% of the airfield is reclaimed from the sea, as is most of the city of Boston, it self.

Here is an interesting bit of (worthless?) trivia. The General Manager of the original Boston Airport (the original name, long before it was renamed E.L. Logan International Airport), was the first person to coin the word "airport".

BOS opened on 13 June 1923, originally as a military airport, with airmail service.

http://www.massport.com/logan/about_histo.html
 
PHLBOS
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RE: BOS' New Runway 14/32 Now Open!

Tue Nov 21, 2006 12:21 am

From the above-Boston.com article:

In the 1990s, a key Dukakis operative, former transportation secretary and Massport board member Frederick P. Salvucci , engineered construction of the 270-room Hyatt Harborside Hotel, a stone's throw from the end of the new runway, largely to create as big an obstacle as possible to Massport extending 14/32 or using it for planes flying over the city.

Worth noting, this is the same Fred Sulvucci that launched the Big Dig project.

Looks like the Hyatt Harborside Hotel is to BOS' 14/32 what the Aker/Kvaener crane is to PHL's 8-26.
"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
 
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ZSOFN
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RE: BOS' New Runway 14/32 Now Open!

Tue Nov 21, 2006 12:39 am

Just to clarify the new runway's position etc...


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Adam Queen



Shot was obviously taken during construction - I'd imagine it looks a little different now.
 
SailorOrion
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RE: BOS' New Runway 14/32 Now Open!

Tue Nov 21, 2006 12:52 am

Considering the new runway is NOT parallel to the exsiting 15/33s, how will the approach procedures look, the paths do intersect.

SailorOrion
 
mk777
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RE: BOS' New Runway 14/32 Now Open!

Tue Nov 21, 2006 2:27 am

Do they ever use the 15L/33R runway at BOS, it looks tiny?
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KarlB737
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RE: BOS' New Runway 14/32 Now Open!

Tue Nov 21, 2006 3:25 am

Courtesy: Boston Herald

Logan Airport’s Sixth Runway Set To Open

http://news.bostonherald.com/localRegional/view.bg?articleid=168205
 
andz
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RE: BOS' New Runway 14/32 Now Open!

Tue Nov 21, 2006 3:35 am

Quoting Mk777 (Reply 7):
Do they ever use the 15L/33R runway at BOS, it looks tiny?

It is tiny!

After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: BOS' New Runway 14/32 Now Open!

Tue Nov 21, 2006 3:50 am

Quoting Mk777 (Reply 7):
Do they ever use the 15L/33R runway at BOS, it looks tiny?

Mostly being use for GA props, and IIRC, Cape Air also uses it for it's Cessnas as well.

Quoting SailorOrion (Reply 6):
Considering the new runway is NOT parallel to the exsiting 15/33s, how will the approach procedures look, the paths do intersect.

I'm no pilot, but suspect for approach, a plane approaching 32 will fly parallel to the rwy 33L approach at standard seperation and will make the 10° (or less, depending on the exact magnetic heading) left turn to align with 32 .
 
LH423
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RE: BOS' New Runway 14/32 Now Open!

Tue Nov 21, 2006 4:52 am

Quoting Mk777 (Reply 7):
Do they ever use the 15L/33R runway at BOS, it looks tiny?

Yes. General aviation, Cape Air and Dash-8s use 15L/33R. In fact I landed on 33R about a month ago on an Air Canada Jazz Dash-8-100.

LH423
« On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux » Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
 
mk777
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RE: BOS' New Runway 14/32 Now Open!

Tue Nov 21, 2006 5:10 am

Quoting LH423 (Reply 11):
In fact I landed on 33R about a month ago on an Air Canada Jazz Dash-8-100.

Must be quick brakes upon landing, I am sure or is it smooth sailing?

Anyhow, someone should post a pic of the new runway. it would be nice to see an aerial shot of it.
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LH423
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RE: BOS' New Runway 14/32 Now Open!

Tue Nov 21, 2006 5:19 am

Quoting Mk777 (Reply 12):
Must be quick brakes upon landing, I am sure or is it smooth sailing

It definitely was a quicker braking than I've had on other Dash-8 landings which are usually a lot slower since at most airports the Dash-8 doesn't need to use its full STOL capabilities. Not sure if it was due to the runway or just the windy conditions that day but the captain planted that thing down firmly. Fun thing about those planes is that, unlike most planes, you can watch the landing gear in action. We took a nice bounce on that landing.

LH423
« On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux » Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
 
highflyer9790
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RE: BOS' New Runway 14/32 Now Open!

Tue Nov 21, 2006 7:27 am

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 2):
That said, sure glad to see the new runway open. It sure has been finished rather fast. Now, BOS needs to be allowed to built that taxiway between the 2 4/22s.

that would be nice...more of a convience and taxi time cutter...id rather see the money pumped into turning 33L into a CAT III (which would help ALOT) or something like that....
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RobertS975
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RE: BOS' New Runway 14/32 Now Open!

Tue Nov 21, 2006 10:28 am

OK, the new runway 14-32 is 5000 feet long and can be used for landings on 32 and takeoffs on 14. The reverse directions will not be available. As has been pointed out, there is a Hyatt hotel on the NW end of the runway.

Here's my question... will RJ pilots accept a takeoff clearance for a 5000 foot runway when there is a runway twice that length (15R-33L)? There is a significant safety factor with the longer runway.
 
PITrules
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RE: BOS' New Runway 14/32 Now Open!

Tue Nov 21, 2006 10:55 am

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 4):
In the 1990s, a key Dukakis operative, former transportation secretary and Massport board member Frederick P. Salvucci , engineered construction of the 270-room Hyatt Harborside Hotel, a stone's throw from the end of the new runway, largely to create as big an obstacle as possible to Massport extending 14/32 or using it for planes flying over the city.

Good to see Massport has people in charge who purposely create obstacles to his/her own organization!
FLYi
 
highflyer9790
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RE: BOS' New Runway 14/32 Now Open!

Tue Nov 21, 2006 1:38 pm

Quoting RobertS975 (Reply 15):
Here's my question... will RJ pilots accept a takeoff clearance for a 5000 foot runway when there is a runway twice that length (15R-33L)? There is a significant safety factor with the longer runway.

I think the runway will be used more for props for takeoffs, because 5000 is plenty for them. even though some RJs are rated for that kind of performance, i doubt we'll see it in the beginning. landing, for sure, we'll see RJs, because they can definately squeeze into there. I hope Rjs take off from there only because there a major factor in the delays. i would think i short field T/O procedure would be sufficient?
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N757ST
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RE: BOS' New Runway 14/32 Now Open!

Wed Nov 22, 2006 8:26 am

The RJ is a high performance jet... no short field procedure, at least for the CRJ, exists. That being said, a flap 20 winter take off can usually be done if under 47,000 or so pounds, we do it all the time in PHL on rwy 8, so you will probably see some usage of the new runway for takeoffs.
 
highflyer9790
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RE: BOS' New Runway 14/32 Now Open!

Wed Nov 22, 2006 10:11 am

Quoting N757ST (Reply 18):
so you will probably see some usage of the new runway for takeoffs.

Thats reassuring...thanks for the info N757ST. Does that go for E170/190 as well? B6 has a lot of flights to JFK with those from bos....
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deltairlines
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RE: BOS' New Runway 14/32 Now Open!

Wed Nov 22, 2006 11:28 am

Flew in right over the new runway tonight when landing on 4R...was really weird seeing a runway appear right away while still in the air before we reached 9/27 - it's built pretty much right on the edge of the airport.
 
SailorOrion
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RE: BOS' New Runway 14/32 Now Open!

Wed Nov 22, 2006 5:21 pm

Well, by the charts a

1) 747-400D could take off in 5000ft @ 230 tons break release weight. Not that this is any useful.
2) 757-200 could take off in 5000ft @ 100 tons.

So plenty of operational freedom, especially considering 737s with winglets.

Another question about 14/32: Is it grooved?

SailorOrion
 
SailorOrion
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RE: BOS' New Runway 14/32 Now Open!

Thu Nov 23, 2006 11:45 pm

Ok, 14/32 is grooved, which helps in landing performance during rain.

It should be operational by now? So when do we expect wind conditions that actually cause it to be used?

SailorOrion
 
SailorOrion
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RE: BOS' New Runway 14/32 Now Open!

Fri Nov 24, 2006 12:14 am

Ok I have done some more digging:

1) 32 and 33s have an angle of 10°
2) NO ILS installed on 32. RNAV/visual approaches only. How often are there CAT I or higher conditions on KBOS during northwestern winds, because in that case 14/32 would be closed.
3) RNAV approach to 32 parallel to 33L, then a slight turn to left well after the FAF.
4) MAP to the 32 seems to be the point when the left turn is initiated. MA goes straight ahead on runway heading of 33L, then turns left
5) Departure 14 (LOGAN THREE) maintain runway heading till 1.0 DME then turn left onto 120°

Sounds like good photo opportunities around Boston Harbor

SailorOrion
 
airbazar
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RE: BOS' New Runway 14/32 Now Open!

Fri Nov 24, 2006 12:22 am

Quoting RobertS975 (Reply 15):
OK, the new runway 14-32 is 5000 feet long and can be used for landings on 32 and takeoffs on 14. The reverse directions will not be available. As has been pointed out, there is a Hyatt hotel on the NW end of the runway.

The question I have is this. If the intention for building the hotel is to make that side of the runway unusuable, what happens when there's an aborted landing and a go-around must be performed? Can the aircraft still clear the building? I'm going to assume yes, but it sounds kinda strange.
 
RobertS975
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RE: BOS' New Runway 14/32 Now Open!

Fri Nov 24, 2006 1:28 am

Quoting SailorOrion (Reply 23):
2) NO ILS installed on 32. RNAV/visual approaches only. How often are there CAT I or higher conditions on KBOS during northwestern winds, because in that case 14/32 would be closed

I am a native here, and generally speaking, a NW wind is a VFR day almost without exception. You might get a ceiling of 2000 foot broken on an unstable day, but nothing lower than that.

Quoting SailorOrion (Reply 21):
1) 747-400D could take off in 5000ft @ 230 tons break release weight. Not that this is any useful.
2) 757-200 could take off in 5000ft @ 100 tons.

So plenty of operational freedom, especially considering 737s with winglets.

Guys, I realize that 5000 feet is enough for takeoff and landings for most operations. But it does shave safety margins when there is a 10,000 foot runway a mile away. What I am saying is this: if I were a CRJ captain or a 737NG captain, I beleive that I would ask for the longer runway simply because it would give an extra margin of safety in the event of rejected TO. For landings on 32, no question that a 5000 foot strip is a short landing that would require heavy reverse thrust and braking.

An airport diagram with the new runway shown under constrction at the bottom:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:BOS_airport_map.PNG
 
SailorOrion
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RE: BOS' New Runway 14/32 Now Open!

Fri Nov 24, 2006 6:51 pm

 
highflyer9790
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RE: BOS' New Runway 14/32 Now Open!

Sat Nov 25, 2006 10:10 am

Quoting RobertS975 (Reply 25):
if I were a CRJ captain or a 737NG captain, I beleive that I would ask for the longer runway simply because it would give an extra margin of safety in the event of rejected TO.

i would tend to agree, but BOS is a pretty busy airport. if the wind is out of the southeast in which case 15R is being used for departures, 14 will now be used to permeate the traffic buildup there and shuffle props and RJs to the new 14. Even if you wanted to depart from 15R, you may be instrcuted to use 14, or your airline with gas prices the way they are dollarsign  dollarsign  dollarsign  would probably make it mandatory to takeoff from the runway with the least amount of wait. plus, if you are delayed already.....
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ckfred
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RE: BOS' New Runway 14/32 Now Open!

Sat Nov 25, 2006 3:37 pm

Quoting PITrules (Reply 16):
Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 4):
In the 1990s, a key Dukakis operative, former transportation secretary and Massport board member Frederick P. Salvucci , engineered construction of the 270-room Hyatt Harborside Hotel, a stone's throw from the end of the new runway, largely to create as big an obstacle as possible to Massport extending 14/32 or using it for planes flying over the city.

Good to see Massport has people in charge who purposely create obstacles to his/her own organization!

You have to remember that in some places, people are apointed to a government agency to keep it from doing its job, rather than oversee its growth. There's a reason why some people call Massachusetts the People's Republic.

As for the Hyatt, I wondered for years why it was built out at the corner of the airport property. Most airport hotels that are located on the property are built either within walking distance of the terminal, such as the O'Hare Hilton or within the terminal complex, such at the DFW Hyatt, which sits on top of the new international terminal.
 
coa747
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RE: BOS' New Runway 14/32 Now Open!

Sat Nov 25, 2006 4:08 pm

Southwest routinely uses 17/35 at PHL which is only 5,460 ft. long. They do so to the displeasure of US Airways who's 737's and A319, 20's and 21's can't use it for most flights. This is where the winglets on those 700's really earn their keep.