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PanAm_DC10
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WSJ: Airbus To Boost A320 Series Production

Mon Nov 20, 2006 2:46 pm

The WSJ is reporting that Airbus are planning to boost A320 series production from a current rate of 30 per month to 36 per month by December 2008. To meet demand and bolster sales.

Subcriber only http://online.wsj.com/public/us

Regards, PanAm_DC10
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leelaw
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RE: WSJ: Airbus To Boost A320 Series Production

Mon Nov 20, 2006 3:02 pm

"Airbus, in a Risky Bet, To Raise Production of A320" (selected excerpts from WSJ article cited in the threadstarter):

...The expected boost in cash flow could help Airbus pay bills of about $15 billion to fix manufacturing problems with its A380 superjumbo and to design from scratch another proposed jet, the A350 XWB.

Churning out more A320 jets also could help Airbus, a division of Franco-German European Aeronautic Defence & Space Co., grab market share in the short-haul segment of the market, which accounts for the majority of jetliner sales by number and where it competes with U.S. rival Boeing Co. Securing more customers for existing A320 single-aisle planes could help Airbus against Boeing five to 10 years from now, when both plane makers develop a new generation of short-haul planes.

Yet history shows that accelerating assembly lines carries risks. A decade ago, Boeing tried to increase production of its single-aisle 737 models too quickly. Its suppliers weren't able to meet demand, and Boeing was forced to disappoint customers and to declare losses amid a booming market.

Tom Williams, Airbus executive vice president for programs, who is handling the ramp-up, said bottlenecks at suppliers are a greater risk than Airbus's own ability to assemble the planes...

..."The risk of increasing output is breaking the supply chain," acknowledged Henri Courpron, Airbus executive vice president for procurement, in an interview. "In that case, you don't just lose the incremental increase, you get none" of the planes in production.

Still, the A320 ramp-up shows Airbus is willing to take risks to keep up the pressure on its U.S. rival...

...Airbus has a backlog of more than 1,800 orders for A320-family planes, and managers feel confident they can deliver those planes faster without creating a glut when the cyclical market next declines, the officials added. For this same reason, the company is spacing out its production increases and is focusing on customers that already have ordered the planes.

"We're not aggressively putting supply on the market that we then need to go sell," said Mr. Courpron.

Airbus managers also are examining boosting production of the company's A330 wide body, which is booked solid through 2008, but an assessment of that move is more preliminary, they added.

Because airlines order planes years ahead but then sometimes cancel them, Airbus overbooks production slots -- much like airlines overbook flights to offset passenger cancellations. Airbus planners then allocate specific production slots to individual customers several months before assembly work begins.


http://online.wsj.com/article/SB116398318123627934.html
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N328KF
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RE: WSJ: Airbus To Boost A320 Series Production

Mon Nov 20, 2006 4:17 pm

This is really non-news; I think it was expected.

With that said, with Airbus doubling down on the A320, Boeing should wait until Airbus commits financial dollars, push the engine makers for increased performance/efficiency, and then reveal Y1 in order to pull the rug out from under Airbus.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
Johnny
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RE: WSJ: Airbus To Boost A320 Series Production

Mon Nov 20, 2006 4:34 pm

@N328KF

That is nothing more than a dream of you.

Boeing has to start Y1 before Airbus starts their A320-replacement as we all know.
The number of sales in the last years speak a clear language.

Johnny
 
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N328KF
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RE: WSJ: Airbus To Boost A320 Series Production

Mon Nov 20, 2006 4:37 pm

Quoting Johnny (Reply 3):
That is nothing more than a dream of you.

Boeing has to start Y1 before Airbus starts their A320-replacement as we all know.
The number of sales in the last years speak a clear language.

I suggest a strategy and you extrapolate from it what you think I "want?" I think you need to detach emotion from your ability to participate in threads.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
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RE: WSJ: Airbus To Boost A320 Series Production

Mon Nov 20, 2006 5:04 pm

Quoting N328KF (Reply 2):
with Airbus doubling down on the A320

 confused 

We're talking about an increase in production rate from 30 to 36 per month, phased in over a year. That's one extra plane introduced per month every two months.

How exactly is that "doubling" and why is it "down"?

Given Boeing's large 737 backlog, launching Y1 too quickly could be counter productive for them as well. The NB market is so big that unless one of the manufacturers produces a real dog, you're unlikely to see anything other than a split in the 45-55% range.

Being second to market in such a big segment is unlikely to be significant - there's little chance of any "rug pulling" in this market segment.
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astuteman
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RE: WSJ: Airbus To Boost A320 Series Production

Mon Nov 20, 2006 5:11 pm

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 1):
Yet history shows that accelerating assembly lines carries risks

Both manufacturers are progressively ramping up production across a number of product lines. It certainly has to be done carefully.

A steady increase from 30 to 36 per month over 2 years shouldn't entail massive risk, though, and Airbus have already shown themselves very capable of managing a controlled ramp-up on the A320 lines.

I'd consider it far less risky than the ambtious plans for the 787 being discussed at the moment, before mainstream production has even begun, using a new and largely untried production paradigm.
I'd like to think Boeing will manage them carefully, too.

Quoting N328KF (Reply 2):
and then reveal Y1 in order to pull the rug out from under Airbus.

I don't think Airbus are at particular risk from this immediately. Even at this accelerated rate, the 1 875 frame (and growing) backlog will last until about mid-2011.
I don't see many, if any, of those deliveries being at risk from a Y1 which is most unlikely to be available in numbers anytime before 2013, at best.

I suspect an unforseen downturn might be the greatest risk, as was, IIRC, the case with Boeing and the 737 as well.

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breiz
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RE: WSJ: Airbus To Boost A320 Series Production

Mon Nov 20, 2006 5:12 pm

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Thread starter):
Airbus are planning to boost A320 series production from a current rate of 30 per month to 36 per month by December 2008.

How does China fit into that scheme?
If and when their assembly line starts, that will be a lot of A320s.
 
astuteman
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RE: WSJ: Airbus To Boost A320 Series Production

Mon Nov 20, 2006 5:21 pm

Quoting Breiz (Reply 7):
If and when their assembly line starts, that will be a lot of A320s.

4 out of 36 per month? That's little more than 10% of overall production.

Airbus are already producing a LOT of A320's  

Edit - Incidentally, with 300 outstanding orders for A320's from China, that Chinese FAL will be contentedly turning out A320's just for it's domestic market for the next 6 years.............  Smile

Regards

[Edited 2006-11-20 09:41:10]
 
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RE: WSJ: Airbus To Boost A320 Series Production

Mon Nov 20, 2006 5:36 pm

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 5):
30 to 36 per month, phased in over a year



Quoting Astuteman (Reply 6):
A steady increase from 30 to 36 per month over 2 years

Oops, I can't count. blush 
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WINGS
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RE: WSJ: Airbus To Boost A320 Series Production

Mon Nov 20, 2006 5:42 pm

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Thread starter):
The WSJ is reporting that Airbus are planning to boost A320 series production from a current rate of 30 per month to 36 per month by December 2008. To meet demand and bolster sales.

Well interesting report PanAm_DC10, thank you for sharing it with us. Well this latest information actually comes to prove my belief that an increase in A32X and possibly A330 production was imminent.

Does any one know if these figures are including the Chinese assembly line?

If it doesn't it would mean that Airbus could possible be producing 40 A32X per month from 2009 onwards.

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Wings
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PanAm_DC10
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RE: WSJ: Airbus To Boost A320 Series Production

Mon Nov 20, 2006 5:43 pm

Quoting Breiz (Reply 7):
How does China fit into that scheme?

The Chinese production is not scheduled to start until 2009;

Aircraft assembly in China is planned to begin in early 2009, with the aim of ramping up production to reach four aircraft per month by 2011.

http://www.airbus.com/en/presscentre...0_26_agreement_A320_FAL_China.html

Quoting Breiz (Reply 7):
If and when their assembly line starts, that will be a lot of A320s.

Indeed, but todays report is over and above any production from the Chinese line, in addition, Airbus have verbally confirmed the WSJ report;

By Andrea Rothman
Nov. 20 (Bloomberg) -- Airbus SAS, the world's biggest planemaker, will boost production of the A320 family of single-aisle jets to 36 monthly by December 2008 from 30 to meet demand.

The move would help it more quickly meet customer orders, said Barbara Kracht, a spokeswoman, today in a telephone interview.


[END - Fair use excerpt: http://www.bloomberg.com ]

Quoting N328KF (Reply 2):
This is really non-news; I think it was expected.

What was expected was an increase to 34 frames per month, so I believe the subject warranted posting, the more so given reference to the A330. If you believe it to be non-news, I ask with respect, use the suggest delete button.

Regards, PanAm_DC10
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astuteman
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RE: WSJ: Airbus To Boost A320 Series Production

Mon Nov 20, 2006 6:35 pm

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 11):
the more so given reference to the A330

Indeed, PanAm_DC10.  checkmark 
(And thanks for the link).

An increase in A330 production would appear much more questionable, in my view.

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 1):
Airbus managers also are examining boosting production of the company's A330 wide body, which is booked solid through 2008, but an assessment of that move is more preliminary, they added.

 checkmark 
(And thanks for the quotes, Leelaw, for us non-subscribers.  Smile )

Regards
 
Johnny
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RE: WSJ: Airbus To Boost A320 Series Production

Mon Nov 20, 2006 6:50 pm

@N328KF

The problem with your strategy is, that the airplane with the lower number of sales should be produced longer than the other one.

That is highly doubtful, because i do not see a reason why Airbus should make the first step with a backlog of more than 1800 airplanes.

That would be the same as Boeing would start a B777-Successor before Airbus starts an A340-Replacement.


Johnny
 
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RE: WSJ: Airbus To Boost A320 Series Production

Mon Nov 20, 2006 7:03 pm

Quoting Astuteman (Reply 12):
An increase in A330 production would appear much more questionable, in my view.

I guess if they launch the frieghter this would need some extra places - and it's still selling reasonably strongly - and they might get part of the USAF tanker contract.
 
sabenapilot
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RE: WSJ: Airbus To Boost A320 Series Production

Mon Nov 20, 2006 7:04 pm

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 11):
If you believe it to be non-news, I ask with respect, use the suggest delete button.

Quite on the contrary PanAm_DC10, you deserve respect for your continued search for non-speculative highly interesting news which helps shine a clearer light on what is about to happen at both Airbus and Boeing.

I don't know how close you are following in on Boeing, but I can confirm that on many occasions you are pretty close in on the news from Airbus.

Obviously, your posts give some irritation because they go against the flow, but don't let that bother you, sir! You definitely show people the grand picture, something not many on this site can say when they focus on minor issues like which individual model outsells which competing product from the competition and then draw the popular conclusion A is in deep troubles...

You are correct Airbus is about to raise the production target to increase total production of the A32F at the assembly lines in Toulouse and Hamburg from the first said new target of 34 to a new target of 36 over a 24 months period. Next month Airbus will talk to all its suppliers to see if the additional 2 planes per month on top the 4 extra per month which were already planned will not pose any problems to them (most likely not), after which a formal go-ahead is expected by year's end or January next year at the very latest.

Airbus is indeed also seriously considering the output of its only other assembly line, i.e. the common A330/A340 assembly line, due to the continued high demand for some of the models coming from this single production line. Notably the fact the launch of the A330F had to be postponed at the very last minute at Farnborough to make room for SQ's pax A330s and the fact that in the mean time some more silent commitments to the A330F have come in (sorry can't say more) makes us confident the output needs to be increased to make it possible to launch the A330F first half next year and start deliveries in 2008 in parallel to a continued production of pax models on the line, rather than in replacement of them.

As for the Chinese assembly line, the aim is indeed to have it up and running in 2009, first at very low rates of course, but as from 2010 it should be assembling 2 additional A32F planes a month and in 2011 even 4 a month, increasing monthly global production of the A32F to a whopping 40 per month!

All this would lead Airbus to a annual output of roughly 575 narrow and wide body planes early next decade, EXCLUDING any (left A340s) and 45 A380s.

A manufacturer which is considering pumping out 620+ planes a year is not really a manufacturer which is fighting for survival like some would want to see... In fact it is a manufacturer which will be very difficult to overtake in production numbers for its main competitor for many years to come.
 
leelaw
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RE: WSJ: Airbus To Boost A320 Series Production

Mon Nov 20, 2006 7:23 pm

Quoting Sabenapilot (Reply 15):
Notably the fact the launch of the A330F had to be postponed at the very last minute at Farnborough to make room for SQ's pax A330s and the fact that in the mean time some more silent commitments to the A330F have come in (sorry can't say more) makes us confident the output needs to be increased to make it possible to launch the A330F first half next year and start deliveries in 2008 in parallel to a continued production of pax models on the line, rather than in replacement of them.

In an interview last week, Mr. Leahy told the Seattle Times:

"I would think you will see the industrial launch of an A330-200 freighter in the next few months.

"I have a few delivery positions that I'm marketing at the end of 2009 and 2010. But with everything else we've had on our plate, [the A330 freighter] hasn't been at the top of the list.

"You tend to go out to see Qantas or Emirates or Singapore first, to explain what's happening with the A380, before you go running around asking if you'd be interested in an A330 freighter for delivery in 2010."


http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...hnology/2003431623_leahyweb15.html

Apparently, Sabenapilot doesn't stand around the same water cooler at Airbus as Mr. Leahy.  Smile
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WINGS
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RE: WSJ: Airbus To Boost A320 Series Production

Mon Nov 20, 2006 7:30 pm

Quoting Sabenapilot (Reply 15):

Quite on the contrary PanAm_DC10, you deserve respect for your continued search for non-speculative highly interesting news which helps shine a clearer light on what is about to happen at both Airbus and Boeing.

Very well said Sabenapilot. It is for these very same qualities that make PanAm_DC10 one of the most respected members on Airliners.net. Keep on doing your thing PanAm_DC10.  Smile

Excellent post SabenaPilot. Very informative.

Regards,
Wings
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sabenapilot
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RE: WSJ: Airbus To Boost A320 Series Production

Mon Nov 20, 2006 7:35 pm

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 16):
"I have a few delivery positions that I'm marketing at the end of 2009 and 2010. But with everything else we've had on our plate, [the A330 freighter] hasn't been at the top of the list.

Hence the idea to increase production, Leelaw....

Which is -contrary to the A32F increase- not yet decided in principle, but even without an increase in annual production from the A330/A340 line, we will be well over 600 planes by early next decade....

Any links as to the expected total production from Boeing at around the same time, Leelaw?

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 16):
Sabenapilot doesn't stand around the same water cooler at Airbus as Mr. Leahy.

You seems to be obsessed with water coolers as of lately.

Better get your blood sugar level checked.
 
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autothrust
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RE: WSJ: Airbus To Boost A320 Series Production

Mon Nov 20, 2006 7:59 pm

Quoting Johnny (Reply 13):
That is highly doubtful, because i do not see a reason why Airbus should make the first step with a backlog of more than 1800 airplanes.

You are 100% right, its quite obvious Boeing will be forced to launch Y1 before Airbus with A320NG. However it will be interesting to watch if the A320NG can leapfrog the Y1. I assume the production costs will be lower for the Y1 then for the A320NG.
“Faliure is not an option.”
 
RichardPrice
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RE: WSJ: Airbus To Boost A320 Series Production

Mon Nov 20, 2006 8:10 pm

Interesting to note that as of the July 2007 closure of the A300 line, Airbus will have a spare production line available with the same fuselage cross section as the A330 - could that be a factor in their plans? How easily could this be converted to A330 production?
 
slz396
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RE: WSJ: Airbus To Boost A320 Series Production

Mon Nov 20, 2006 8:12 pm

Quoting Sabenapilot (Reply 15):
A manufacturer which is considering pumping out 620+ planes a year.

That's an awful lot of planes! Who would have thought to see such production numbers a few years ago... In fact, until less than 2 years ago, annual sales weren't even that high (at least not at Airbus, don't really know for Boeing)!

I suppose that this kind of production increase will generate an enormous cash flow which will allow Airbus to launch the A350XWB without to much financing problems?

Quoting AutoThrust (Reply 19):
its quite obvious Boeing will be forced to launch Y1 before Airbus with A320NG. However it will be interesting to watch if the A320NG can leapfrog the Y1. I assume the production costs will be lower for the Y1 then for the A320NG.

Isn't the A320NG just an intermediate update to make the current A320 even more competitive than it is today? This A320NG (or A320E) might be a good idea really, because once Airbus gets rid of the production limitations which it suffers from now and have hindered it from winning even more tenders, it might help them fill the additional production slots even more easy.
 
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RE: WSJ: Airbus To Boost A320 Series Production

Mon Nov 20, 2006 8:15 pm

Sabenapilot, if Airbus had enough A330F orders to launch at Farnborough they would have. I absolutely don't buy your SQ story. They could have announced 330/340 line production increases(well 330 anyway) to satisfy the demand.
Whilst I think the 330F will be launched and will sell, I don't think it has sold at the expected rate, hence the delay in launch.
How else can Airbus compete with Boeing in the near/mid term, other than increasing 32X/330 production rates? The 340 is dead(even PR won't go near the 346), the 380 is struggling at present and with all orders in the cancellation zone, I would expect more cancellations. Additionally, FI is today reporting that the 350XWB may only be powered by RR, as GE are yet to come to terms on the -800/-900 models, and have never been likely to power the -1000. XWB EIS will be 2013 at the earliest and more likely 2014 IMO, with the -1000 not available until 2015/16. I expect more than one carrier with firm 350 orders to also cancel.
Airbus need more 320 sales to pay for the 380/XWB/330F projects. That's what the production rate increase is all about IMO. A carbon fibre panel XWB, still won't go near matching the 787 CFRP barrel fuselage sections, no matter how hard John Leahy tries to rationalise it. Airbus clearly can't(efficiently and/or technically) match Boeing in CFRP fuselage barrel construction.
I would like to see Airbus push the technology envelope with the XWB. I fear they won't and/or can't)
 
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RE: WSJ: Airbus To Boost A320 Series Production

Mon Nov 20, 2006 8:16 pm

Quoting Sabenapilot (Reply 15):
A manufacturer which is considering pumping out 620+ planes a year is not really a manufacturer which is fighting for survival like some would want to see...

Arguably it IS about survival - generating the cash flow necessary to stay afloat........

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 1):
...The expected boost in cash flow could help Airbus pay bills of about $15 billion to fix manufacturing problems with its A380 superjumbo and to design from scratch another proposed jet, the A350 XWB.
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
astuteman
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RE: WSJ: Airbus To Boost A320 Series Production

Mon Nov 20, 2006 8:24 pm

Quoting 2wingtips (Reply 22):
Airbus need more 320 sales to pay for the 380/XWB/330F projects.

Airbus need more A320 deliveries to cope with a backlog which I understand to be unprecedented in magnitude for this type of airliner (over 1900 frames including orders announced this month).

Your comment seems to infer that Airbus are increasing A320 production only in order to pay for ongoing projects.
It's not a view that I can subscribe to, unfortunately.

One thing I'll say about N328KF's comments regarding Y1.
The inevitable advent of Y1 makes it even more sensible for Airbus to make hay with the A320, and maximise the sales they can take in the period prior to Y1 starting to exert an influence

Regards
 
leelaw
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RE: WSJ: Airbus To Boost A320 Series Production

Mon Nov 20, 2006 8:35 pm

Quoting Sabenapilot (Reply 18):
Which is -contrary to the A32F increase- not yet decided in principle, but even without an increase in annual production from the A330/A340 line, we will be well over 600 planes by early next decade....

Congratulations. Hopefully, you won't be negatively impacted by the Power8 cost-cutting drive and will still be at Airbus to enjoy the success.

Quoting Sabenapilot (Reply 18):
Any links as to the expected total production from Boeing at around the same time, Leelaw?

Nope, and I'm not sure why you're launching an unnecessary and silly A v. B digression?

Quoting Sabenapilot (Reply 18):
You seem to be obsessed with water coolers lately.

Only when I see water cooler gossip presented as if it were fact.

Quoting Sabenapilot (Reply 18):
Better get your blood sugar level checked.

I appreciate your concern. Coincidentally, I had a physical examination just last week and my doctor tells me my blood sugar level is just fine.  bigthumbsup 
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Johnny
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RE: WSJ: Airbus To Boost A320 Series Production

Mon Nov 20, 2006 8:37 pm

@Wingtips
"Airbus need more 320 sales to pay for the 380/XWB/330F projects"

More "sales" than 1900...?

i think you mean more deliveries, but i doubt that 2 add. airplanes/month have an influence or can pay for the A380-problem...

Johnny
 
scouseflyer
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RE: WSJ: Airbus To Boost A320 Series Production

Mon Nov 20, 2006 8:44 pm

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 20):
Interesting to note that as of the July 2007 closure of the A300 line, Airbus will have a spare production line available with the same fuselage cross section as the A330 - could that be a factor in their plans? How easily could this be converted to A330 production?

I might be wrong but I belive that the A300 hanger is not much cop for the A330/340 as the planes have to be squeezed in and basically hand assembled. They may however be able to use the land when this hanger is demolished.
 
Oykie
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RE: WSJ: Airbus To Boost A320 Series Production

Mon Nov 20, 2006 9:22 pm

Thank you PanAm_DC-10 for keeping us up to date. IIRC Streif would like to move final assembly on the A320 to Germany as part of the restructuring of Airbus company. Would this still be possible with the increase in production rate?
Dream no small dream; it lacks magic. Dream large, then go make that dream real - Donald Douglas
 
slz396
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RE: WSJ: Airbus To Boost A320 Series Production

Mon Nov 20, 2006 9:26 pm

Quoting 2wingtips (Reply 22):
If Airbus had enough A330F orders to launch at Farnborough they would have. I absolutely don't buy your SQ story. They could have announced 330/340 line production increases(well 330 anyway) to satisfy the demand.

It is a fact the official launch of the A330 was announced for Farnborough and an official order announcement for 30 A330F was posted by a lessor on the last day, but then at almost the same time Airbus announced the SQ deal including 20 A350xwb and some more A380s, as well as 19 A330s which need to be delivered in a relatively short term to the airline , after which the launch announcement of the A330F was immediately withdrawn.

Saying the 2 are NOT linked is looking next to all evidence in my eyes.

Besides, increasing production is not as easy as you make it sound. Otherwise, why would it take almost 2 years to to increase A32F production by a few planes?

You may not like the messege sabena-pilot is bringing, but it sure sounds very plausible to me and it does match all the facts we've seen so far.
 
RichardPrice
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RE: WSJ: Airbus To Boost A320 Series Production

Mon Nov 20, 2006 9:29 pm

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 29):
Besides, increasing production is not as easy as you make it sound. Otherwise, why would it take almost 2 years to to increase A32F production by a few planes?

Parts supplies all down the chain need ramping up, which cant be done instantly.
 
slz396
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RE: WSJ: Airbus To Boost A320 Series Production

Mon Nov 20, 2006 11:44 pm

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 25):
Only when I see water cooler gossip presented as if it were fact.

I am confused now.

Are you saying the WSJ is publishing water cooler gossip when they publish an interview with Airbus' Executive VPs Programs and Procurement on the likeliness of increases in A330 and A320 production output?
 
Aviator27
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RE: WSJ: Airbus To Boost A320 Series Production

Tue Nov 21, 2006 12:11 am

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 5):
How exactly is that "doubling" and why is it "down"?

He was not referring to doubling the production rate of the A320. "Doubling Down" is an American phrase from gambling in the card game "Black Jack". Its where you would double your bet on your first two cards. You're basically increasing your bet and increasing the stakes.

Back to Airbus. Their A32x sells well. Airlines can't get enough of them. With the CPIP (Continuous Product Improvement Program) the airplane gets better every year. However, I think if the aviation boom in Asia fizzles out, there will be a lot of unclaimed A320's on the market. The lease rates would fall (they are way too high right now anyways). I know Airbus has been trying hard to lower the lease rates by increasing production, but when they do that, demand increases also. More A32x equals more job security for me.
 
jdevora
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RE: WSJ: Airbus To Boost A320 Series Production

Tue Nov 21, 2006 12:17 am

Quoting Sabenapilot (Reply 15):
Notably the fact the launch of the A330F had to be postponed at the very last minute at Farnborough to make room for SQ's pax A330s and the fact that in the mean time some more silent commitments to the A330F have come in (sorry can't say more) makes us confident the output needs to be increased to make it possible to launch the A330F first half next year and start deliveries in 2008 in parallel to a continued production of pax models on the line, rather than in replacement of them.

It is the first time that I saw an explanation about the PR note about the 330F that was online ony a few hours...  Smile

Cheers
JD
 
leelaw
Posts: 4520
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RE: WSJ: Airbus To Boost A320 Series Production

Tue Nov 21, 2006 12:44 am

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 31):
Are you saying the WSJ is publishing water cooler gossip when they publish an interview with Airbus' Executive VPs Programs and Procurement on the likeliness of increases in A330 and A320 production output?

Absolutely not, in this case the WSJ article appears to be factual and transparently sourced.
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
jdevora
Posts: 225
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RE: WSJ: Airbus To Boost A320 Series Production

Tue Nov 21, 2006 1:05 am

Quoting 2wingtips (Reply 22):
Sabenapilot, if Airbus had enough A330F orders to launch at Farnborough they would have. I absolutely don't buy your SQ story.

I don't have any facts about the 330F, but there is a hint about what Sabenapilot is telling is what happened. There was an Airbus press release about the 330F out there just for a few hours, looks like that they reached a last minute agreement with SQ and they had to postpone their previous plans.
Flight Global: Airbus coy on A330-200 Freighter

Quote:
Airbus made a last-minute decision to postpone an announcement of the A330-200 Freighter programme launch during the Farnborough air show despite receiving a commitment for 30 aircraft from an undisclosed customer.

A-330-200F, When?

Quote:
Its been announced but not launched, hence the confusion over the 30 UFO A330-200F orders at Farnbrough that were retracted soon after.



Quoting 2wingtips (Reply 22):

They could have announced 330/340 line production increases(well 330 anyway) to satisfy the demand.

I don't think that they could announce something as important as a rate increase after a good sales day at Farnborough.
 
tak
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RE: WSJ: Airbus To Boost A320 Series Production

Tue Nov 21, 2006 1:14 am

Quick question: has boeing given any thought to ramping up production of the 737? I know a little about the previous failures, but could that be accomplished now?, Thanks in advance
 
jacobin777
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RE: WSJ: Airbus To Boost A320 Series Production

Tue Nov 21, 2006 2:10 am

Quoting Sabenapilot (Reply 15):
Obviously, your posts give some irritation because they go against the flow, but don't let that bother you, sir! You definitely show people the grand picture, something not many on this site can say when they focus on minor issues like which individual model outsells which competing product from the competition and then draw the popular conclusion A is in deep troubles...

I can't believe I'm actually agreeing with Sabenapilot.... Wow!  covereyes   praise 

Quoting WINGS (Reply 17):
Very well said Sabenapilot. It is for these very same qualities that make PanAm_DC10 one of the most respected members on Airliners.net. Keep on doing your thing PanAm_DC10. Smile

 checkmark ...Hi Wings... Smile

I agree..we need PanAM_DC10 to keep up the good work here on A.net and prevent people from perverting the truth..its nice to know there are certain people here on A.net who can be consistently relied upon.. Smile

Quoting AutoThrust (Reply 19):

You are 100% right, its quite obvious Boeing will be forced to launch Y1 before Airbus with A320NG.

Both Boeing and Airbus have a massive backlog, neither carrier needs to be "forced".....when the technology becomes available, both manufacturers will decide what strategy to employ...
"Up the Irons!"
 
Shenzhen
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RE: WSJ: Airbus To Boost A320 Series Production

Tue Nov 21, 2006 3:38 am

Quoting Tak (Reply 36):
Quick question: has boeing given any thought to ramping up production of the 737? I know a little about the previous failures, but could that be accomplished now?, Thanks in advance

I believe Boeing are also ramping production of the 737, but not to the tune of 40 per month. With nearly 1500 737s in the backlog, they could certainly ramp the delivery rate higher, but I believe that they recently said it was more prudent from their stand point to tell Airlines sorry, we are sold out until xx/xx.

Boeing has a little more experience in ramping production, then having to make significant cuts, therefore they are probably a little more conservative today.

Increasing production by 20 percent, on top of the A320 high deliveries today, will probably result in a 50-60 percent rate cut in the not too distant future. Hopefully, it won't affect too many employees down the road.

Cheers
 
leelaw
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RE: WSJ: Airbus To Boost A320 Series Production

Tue Nov 21, 2006 3:42 am

"Airbus Ramps Up Production Of Smaller Jets To Make Up For Problems With Big Ones"

The Associated Press

PARIS — Airbus plans to increase production of its A320 family of airliners, a company official said today, as the European aircraft maker bets on strong demand for its smaller planes to take the sting out of costly delays to its flagship A380 superjumbo.

Airbus spokesman Justin Dubon confirmed the plans, reported by the Wall Street Journal, which will see 32 of the single-aisle planes produced per month from January, instead of the 30 produced currently. Production will increase further to 34 planes per month in March 2008 and 36 by December that year.

Management approved the ramp-up at a meeting Friday, Dubon said. "The reason is that the backlog for A320 aircraft is so huge..."


http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...ospace/2003439872_webairbus20.html
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scbriml
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RE: WSJ: Airbus To Boost A320 Series Production

Tue Nov 21, 2006 3:45 am

Quoting Shenzhen (Reply 38):
will probably result in a 50-60 percent rate cut in the not too distant future.

Two questions.

1) Why? The 40-per month production rate won't be reached till 2009.

2) What is your definition of "not too distant future"?
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
 
supa7E7
Posts: 1360
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RE: WSJ: Airbus To Boost A320 Series Production

Tue Nov 21, 2006 3:54 am

THis thread is really pathetic.

The Americans are saying their antique is better than Europe's antique A320. Who cares? They are both antiques!!

They are also the best thing available, so with no other choice, the world orders the products. Nonetheless, they will be obsolete quite soon. The A320 will be a 707 before too long.

Since 1988 or so, many things have changed. Compare a 1988 Toyota to a 2007 Toyota. See, things have changed. It is time for Airbus and Boeing to get more aggressive about saving fuel in this world. I wish them both well.
"Who's to say spaceships aren't fine art?" - Phil Lesh
 
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N328KF
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RE: WSJ: Airbus To Boost A320 Series Production

Tue Nov 21, 2006 4:19 am

Quoting Supa7E7 (Reply 41):
Since 1988 or so, many things have changed. Compare a 1988 Toyota to a 2007 Toyota. See, things have changed. It is time for Airbus and Boeing to get more aggressive about saving fuel in this world. I wish them both well.

Gee, I guess I imagined that whole 787 thing...
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
Shenzhen
Posts: 1664
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2003 12:11 pm

RE: WSJ: Airbus To Boost A320 Series Production

Tue Nov 21, 2006 4:35 am

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 40):
wo questions.

1) Why? The 40-per month production rate won't be reached till 2009.

2) What is your definition of "not too distant future"?

Looking at history, significant production cuts happened in the early 70s, early 80s, early 90s and early 20s.

Going on history, I would say shortly after Airbus reach their increased production, they will need to start looking at cuts. Airplane production lags the economy by about a year, so when the economy starts going south, expect deliveries to follow suit shortly thereafter (good time to sell stock also, as there is a delay to the overall market).

Nothing wrong with Airbus trying to get as much out of their A320 line whilst the getting is good.....

Cheers
 
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glideslope
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RE: WSJ: Airbus To Boost A320 Series Production

Tue Nov 21, 2006 5:10 am

Quoting N328KF (Reply 2):
This is really non-news; I think it was expected.

With that said, with Airbus doubling down on the A320, Boeing should wait until Airbus commits financial dollars, push the engine makers for increased performance/efficiency, and then reveal Y1 in order to pull the rug out from under Airbus

I'll wager there is a Group in a Starbucks in Seattle as we read.  bigthumbsup 

Quoting Johnny (Reply 3):
@N328KF

That is nothing more than a dream of you.

Johnny on the run?
To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy.” Sun Tzu
 
flydreamliner
Posts: 1928
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RE: WSJ: Airbus To Boost A320 Series Production

Tue Nov 21, 2006 5:39 am

Quoting Johnny (Reply 3):
Boeing has to start Y1 before Airbus starts their A320-replacement as we all know.
The number of sales in the last years speak a clear language.

Not really, A320 and 737 have been more or less competitive in recent years in terms of their sales. Airbus has said A320NG isn't in the near future, and Boeing has said don't expect Y1 before 2015, and I think it is safe to say both Boeing and Airbus can keep their narrowbody queues full until 2015. Boeing has the advantage of the technologies developed in the 787 program - their superior, more developed technologies with composites and bleedless will make building the next generation composite narrowbody that much cheaper, faster, and more effective. The biggest mistake in the history of Airbus was writing off composites while Boeing was developing Sonic Cruiser and then Dreamliner. That arrogance will cost them dearly for a long time.

Quoting Breiz (Reply 7):
If and when their assembly line starts, that will be a lot of A320s.

You might want to ask McDonnell Douglas about that. Their experience with a factory in China was not as optimistic as they had hoped. It will add to the A320 production, it won't completely change the game though.

Quoting Johnny (Reply 13):
That would be the same as Boeing would start a B777-Successor before Airbus starts an A340-Replacement.

From my understanding, 777 has more than a few years of backlog at current, and A340 seems not to be selling so much at all anymore, and the A350XWB is not even yet on the drawing board. When A350XWB comes out, using its composite panels, instead of the more technologically advanced barrels, and cannot provide the same weight savings, Boeing will merely produce Y3, built on the same then proven technology of 787 with superior performance and a lower development cost. Boeing realized there was something to be said in waiting for Airbus and then one upping them shortly after in long-haul. A340 had a few years of the market to itself, and then 777 was released, and has stolen more and more market share every year since. Strieff said A was 10 years behind B in terms of some of its development. I'm just saying, Y3 would not be that hard to put together in light of 787. GE has already said that they could produce a GE90 variant to produce even higher yet levels of thrust than GE90-115B. A new GE90, much like the 'CF6-80', with new GEnx technologies and a newer, more powerful core would not be that long of a development cycle, nor would be building a larger aircraft on 787 technology.

Quoting Glideslope (Reply 44):
I'll wager there is a Group in a Starbucks in Seattle as we read. bigthumbsup

It might be in Chicago, nowadays.
"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
 
astuteman
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RE: WSJ: Airbus To Boost A320 Series Production

Tue Nov 21, 2006 6:06 am

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 39):
"Airbus Ramps Up Production Of Smaller Jets To Make Up For Problems With Big Ones"

The Associated Press



Quoting Leelaw (Reply 39):
Management approved the ramp-up at a meeting Friday, Dubon said. "The reason is that the backlog for A320 aircraft is so huge..."

Ah, the press - don't you just love them........  Smile

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 45):
I think it is safe to say both Boeing and Airbus can keep their narrowbody queues full until 2015

 checkmark 

Regards
 
2wingtips
Posts: 487
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RE: WSJ: Airbus To Boost A320 Series Production

Tue Nov 21, 2006 6:37 am

Thanks for the explanation re the 330F "dropped" announcement at Farnborough. I have no reason to dispute that, or that the 330F will be eventually launched and sell quite well.
What I find strange is that an order for 19 A333s by SQ could totally disrupt the 330F launch. Does the commitment for 30 330Fs still stand, or are there other issues with the 330F? 19 new frames shouldn't disrupt the production for more than a few months. I seem to remember a structural issue with the forward nose gear. Has this been resolved? It's now 5 months since Farnborough, Boeing continues to annihilate Airbus in the freighter stakes and still no news on the 330F.
I still don't buy that the SQ announcement was the one and only reason for the delay to the 330F launch.
I tend to think that the 330F has been forgotten these last few months whilst Airbus tries to put out the spot-fires surrounding the 380/350XWB.
But if the aircraft design was firm enough and they actually had firm orders, then surely these would have been announced?
 
Shenzhen
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RE: WSJ: Airbus To Boost A320 Series Production

Tue Nov 21, 2006 6:47 am

Quoting 2wingtips (Reply 47):
Thanks for the explanation re the 330F "dropped" announcement at Farnborough. I have no reason to dispute that, or that the 330F will be eventually launched and sell quite well.
What I find strange is that an order for 19 A333s by SQ could totally disrupt the 330F launch. Does the commitment for 30 330Fs still stand, or are there other issues with the 330F? 19 new frames shouldn't disrupt the production for more than a few months. I seem to remember a structural issue with the forward nose gear. Has this been resolved? It's now 5 months since Farnborough, Boeing continues to annihilate Airbus in the freighter stakes and still no news on the 330F.
I still don't buy that the SQ announcement was the one and only reason for the delay to the 330F launch.
I tend to think that the 330F has been forgotten these last few months whilst Airbus tries to put out the spot-fires surrounding the 380/350XWB.
But if the aircraft design was firm enough and they actually had firm orders, then surely these would have been announced?

If Airbus had firm orders for the A330F, then they are now paying compensation on these delays as well. My guess would be that they didn't have firm orders, and at best a proposal that they cancelled, if it contained delivery slots that Airbus will now keep for themself (to lease to airlines such as SQ).

Cheers
 
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scbriml
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RE: WSJ: Airbus To Boost A320 Series Production

Tue Nov 21, 2006 7:41 am

Quoting Shenzhen (Reply 48):
If Airbus had firm orders for the A330F, then they are now paying compensation on these delays as well.

This seems a bit of a leap. We know very little about the A330F deal, including when they were/are scheduled for delivery, and yet you already have Airbus paying compensation for them. Interesting.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!

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