n1786b
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FI: PAL Selects 777

Mon Nov 20, 2006 5:30 pm

FI is reporting that PAL has selected the 777-300ER over the A340-600.

2 from Boeing and 2 from GEAC - for delivery starting in 09. They also state the Boeing deal is done and they are finalizing the GECAS deal.

- N1786B
 
centrair
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RE: FI: PAL Selects 777

Mon Nov 20, 2006 6:02 pm

Quoting N1786b (Thread starter):
FI is reporting that PAL has selected the 777-300ER over the A340-600

Great for Boeing the 773 and PAL. But I am not finding anything on Boeing.com or news sites...even FI.
Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
 
Devilfish
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RE: FI: PAL Selects 777

Mon Nov 20, 2006 6:15 pm

Quoting Centrair (Reply 1):
But I am not finding anything on Boeing.com or news sites...even FI.

Flightglobal is not showing anything about this, although Aviation Daily had it as posted in this thread.....

http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3101131/
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
WINGS
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RE: FI: PAL Selects 777

Mon Nov 20, 2006 6:20 pm

Quoting N1786b (Thread starter):
FI is reporting that PAL has selected the 777-300ER over the A340-600.

2 from Boeing and 2 from GECas - for delivery starting in 09. They also state the Boeing deal is done and they are finalizing the GECAS deal.

Well again excellent news for both Boeing and PAL. Under all the circumstances the right aircraft was chosen.

I'm surprised to see that only two will be bought, while four are being leased. I suspect that PAL are still tight on cash and a great part of the deposits held with the B744 contributed to the success of this order.

Regards,
Wings
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ZKNBX
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RE: FI: PAL Selects 777

Mon Nov 20, 2006 6:32 pm

Quoting WINGS (Reply 3):
a great part of the deposits held with the B744 contributed to the success of this order.

Looks like it. And looks like Airbus cut it's losses and decided not to tango on this one.
 
centrair
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RE: FI: PAL Selects 777

Mon Nov 20, 2006 6:41 pm

Maybe this is part of the 15 777 orders talked about in Seattle PI

Boeing orders shows a total of 16 UFO 777s. That is one more than the Seattle PI article noted.

not to mention 32 787s
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n1786b
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RE: FI: PAL Selects 777

Mon Nov 20, 2006 7:36 pm

Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 2):
Flightglobal is not showing anything about this, although Aviation Daily had it as posted in this thread.....

This is from the electronic version of FI - it will be available online shortly.

The article is on Page 8 - bottom right hand corner  Wink

- n1786b
 
sq212
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RE: FI: PAL Selects 777

Mon Nov 20, 2006 8:06 pm

 
Johnny
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RE: FI: PAL Selects 777

Mon Nov 20, 2006 8:09 pm

So another airline which switches from the B747 to the B777-300ER...
 
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solnabo
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RE: FI: PAL Selects 777

Mon Nov 20, 2006 8:14 pm

It was expected imo PAL ordered the 73ER, but surprised there´s no order for the 748i.

Congrats BO & PAL

Micke//  

[Edited 2006-11-20 12:17:18]
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2wingtips
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RE: FI: PAL Selects 777

Mon Nov 20, 2006 8:17 pm

Quoting Johnny (Reply 8):
So another airline which switches from the B747 to the B777-300ER...

And clearly another carrier that has rejected the A346.
 
kaitak
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RE: FI: PAL Selects 777

Mon Nov 20, 2006 8:19 pm

Quoting Johnny (Reply 8):
So another airline which switches from the B747 to the B777-300ER...

Or, to put it another way, an existing A340-300 customer which DIDN'T choose the A340-600. I had PAL pegged as a likely A346 customer on the basis that if they couldn't win PR, they might as well take the A340 into a surgery and put it quietly to sleep.
 
Johnny
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RE: FI: PAL Selects 777

Mon Nov 20, 2006 8:26 pm

I think they had the B744 still on order, so the decision was made simplier!

 Smile
 
2wingtips
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RE: FI: PAL Selects 777

Mon Nov 20, 2006 8:34 pm

Makes you wonder what Virgin blue will select for their Trans-Pacific services, if they can't get 777s before 2009/10. Could they be forced into a 346 purchase/lease, or will they delay until they can get 777s.
 
scouseflyer
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RE: FI: PAL Selects 777

Mon Nov 20, 2006 8:38 pm

Quoting 2wingtips (Reply 13):
Makes you wonder what Virgin blue will select for their Trans-Pacific services, if they can't get 777s before 2009/10. Could they be forced into a 346 purchase/lease, or will they delay until they can get 777s.

Or leasing some of the 346's that EK has placed with someone else......
 
andrewtang
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RE: FI: PAL Selects 777

Mon Nov 20, 2006 8:43 pm

Obviously GEAC had fought hard to lease 2 B773ER to PR. As GE engines arent available on the A346, it's hard to imagine them buying the A346 to lease to PR.
 
centrair
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RE: FI: PAL Selects 777

Mon Nov 20, 2006 9:20 pm

Quoting Sq212 (Reply 7):
http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles...+order+Boeing+777s+instead+of.html

Great News for Boeing and PAL.

I too had them pegged for the A346. 773ER is turning out to be a real hit for the Seattle (Chicago) folks. Wonder if/when a US carrier will order some.
Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
 
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PanAm_DC10
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RE: FI: PAL Selects 777

Mon Nov 20, 2006 10:17 pm

Very interesting;

Report #1: A local media outlet reports 6 x 777s are on the way
Report #2: As noted by DEVILFISH, Aviation Daily reported it

The "chatter" intensifies......Hmmm

Report #3: Flight International reports it........

....yet not a word from PAL other than announcement this week. What if they actually ordered the A346HGW  duck 

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KL808
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RE: FI: PAL Selects 777

Mon Nov 20, 2006 10:59 pm

Congratulations Philippine Airlines. Though surprised that PR went with the B777-300ER, im happy that they are finally getting some needed new aircrafts.

I just hope that they will retain the 5 B747-400's and use these aircrafts as expansion to more destinations in America and Asia.

Quoting WINGS (Reply 3):
I suspect that PAL are still tight on cash and a great part of the deposits held with the B744 contributed to the success of this order.

This is true, PR is still under receivership. I hope that PR got a good deal on this mega deal for 6 B77W's.

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 17):
....yet not a word from PAL other than announcement this week. What if they actually ordered the A346HGW

I doubt that sir, this is good as done. Filipino's hold to their word, unless something super super sweat was offered.

Drew
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Stitch
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RE: FI: PAL Selects 777

Mon Nov 20, 2006 11:09 pm

Quoting Centrair (Reply 5):
Maybe this is part of the 15 777 orders talked about in Seattle PI...

I asked the same thing in the other PAL A346/77E3 thread and was informed this was not the case. So if they are leased from GECAS, GECAS will evidently be placing another order per that source.

Quoting Johnny (Reply 8):
So another airline which switches from the B747 to the B777-300ER...

Yup. The 773ER is really making hay while the sun shines, taking orders that before would have had to go to the 748 and A388 and successfully ducking the future threat of the A350SWB-1000.

Quoting 2wingtips (Reply 13):
Makes you wonder what Virgin blue will select for their Trans-Pacific services, if they can't get 777s before 2009/10.

Boeing is probably working hard with their suppliers - who are the current bottleneck - to increase production to meet demand. DJ probably wants the 773ER, so I expect Boeing will work to get it to them.

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 17):
What if they actually ordered the A346HGW?  duck 

FI is pretty highly regarded by many here, so I am going to hazard a guess they're not going to be taking local and a-net comments as "gospel truth" and report it without some solid fact-checking with sources at PAL.  Smile
 
WINGS
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RE: FI: PAL Selects 777

Mon Nov 20, 2006 11:20 pm

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 17):
Very interesting;

Report #1: A local media outlet reports 6 x 777s are on the way
Report #2: As noted by DEVILFISH, Aviation Daily reported it

The "chatter" intensifies......Hmmm

Report #3: Flight International reports it........

....yet not a word from PAL other than announcement this week. What if they actually ordered the A346HGW

Well wouldn't that be interesting. How often has Flight International been wrong about orders prior to confirmation?

Don't they usually have to a reliable source prior to announcing ?

Regards,
Wings
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jimyvr
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RE: FI: PAL Selects 777

Mon Nov 20, 2006 11:41 pm

Quoting N1786b (Thread starter):
2 from Boeing and 2 from GEAC

So the total is 4. Where's the other 2?
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KL808
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RE: FI: PAL Selects 777

Tue Nov 21, 2006 12:05 am

Quoting Jimyvr (Reply 21):
Where's the other 2?

The other 2 are in options for now.

It seems to me that whats going to happen is that by 2009 PR will be operating 4 B744 and 2 B777-300ER's.

Drew
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JAL
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RE: FI: PAL Selects 777

Tue Nov 21, 2006 12:06 am

What a wonderful surprise!
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MCOflyer
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RE: FI: PAL Selects 777

Tue Nov 21, 2006 12:47 am

Congrats to Boeing and PAL. The 773ER is a very efficient a/c and PAL will love it due to its high range and capacity. I wonder if Boeing and other 777 operators ever considered this slogan: 2 engines 2 be efficent. It seems to fit PAL.

MCOflyer
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YULWinterSkies
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RE: FI: PAL Selects 777

Tue Nov 21, 2006 12:56 am

Quoting 2wingtips (Reply 10):
And clearly another carrier that has rejected the A346.



Quoting Kaitak (Reply 11):
Or, to put it another way, an existing A340-300 customer which DIDN'T choose the A340-600.

When 2 choices are available, the most modern usually wins. Have you recently seen carriers ordering 767s instead of 332s for example?

2 useless A-bashing replies.
When I doubt... go running!
 
tak
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RE: FI: PAL Selects 777

Tue Nov 21, 2006 12:58 am

Great news for PAL and for Beoing. I'm Curious whether the options will be used and if so when. What do you guys think? Just could not afford to order two more at this time or hedging their bets?

Ciao
 
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Stitch
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RE: FI: PAL Selects 777

Tue Nov 21, 2006 1:02 am

Quoting Tak (Reply 26):
Great news for PAL and for Boeing. I'm Curious whether the options will be used and if so when. What do you guys think? Just could not afford to order two more at this time or hedging their bets?

As PR is not in the strongest financial health at the moment, sending their four 744 deposits to two 773ERs probably covered a good chunk of the cost of those two birds. And leasing two more helps them conserve cash. And the lower capacity helps PR increase their average RASM per flight then if they had kept the 744, to say nothing of the 748. Plus the lower operating costs and higher dispatch reliability will help.

So if this all works as expected, PR will use these four birds to build up their cash to take their options.
 
MCOflyer
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RE: FI: PAL Selects 777

Tue Nov 21, 2006 1:07 am

Quoting YULWinterSkies (Reply 25):
When 2 choices are available, the most modern usually wins. Have you recently seen carriers ordering 767s instead of 332s for example?

Yes, LAN and NH. Austrian will be getting rid of their A330's while keeping their 767 and 777's.

MCOflyer
Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
 
sstsomeday
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RE: FI: PAL Selects 777

Tue Nov 21, 2006 1:07 am

Quoting YULWinterSkies (Reply 25):
2 useless A-bashing replies.

Actually, to be fair, I believe they were in response to what could be considered a flippant, B-bashing comment.... regarding the 747-8....

Quoting Johnny (Reply 8):
So another airline which switches from the B747 to the B777-300ER...
I come in peace
 
tak
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RE: FI: PAL Selects 777

Tue Nov 21, 2006 1:29 am

Thanks for your thoughts Stitch! Still 4 planes especially 773s are nothing to sneeze at, Ciao
 
na
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RE: FI: PAL Selects 777

Tue Nov 21, 2006 1:42 am

The Boeing 777, what a surprizzzzzzzzzzzzzz...
 
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Stitch
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RE: FI: PAL Selects 777

Tue Nov 21, 2006 1:47 am

Quoting NA (Reply 31):
The Boeing 777, what a surprizzzzzzzzzzzzzz...

The A346 probably would have been the easier choice for PR to make, to be honest, but it appears that the ability to get the 773ER quicker and the ability to reduce the up-front cash outlay for at least two of them thanks to the deposits still being held by Boeing pushed them to the 7777.
 
Lostmoon744
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RE: FI: PAL Selects 777

Tue Nov 21, 2006 1:50 am

Mabuhay!  praise  Awesome news for PR and Boeing. Congratulations.

I am curious to know, with PR's potentially new routes, would any of those new sectors be to/from the eastern United States? JFK/EWR?

Is there a market for this part of the world that PR could benefit? I would imagine it would be a westbound flight perhaps to LAX or SFO. Thanks.

Lostmoon744  airplane 
 
KL808
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RE: FI: PAL Selects 777

Tue Nov 21, 2006 1:56 am

Quoting Lostmoon744 (Reply 33):
I am curious to know, with PR's potentially new routes, would any of those new sectors be to/from the eastern United States? JFK/EWR?

Is there a market for this part of the world that PR could benefit? I would imagine it would be a westbound flight perhaps to LAX or SFO. Thanks.

If they will return to NYC, it would probably be an extension to the YVR route.

As of late there has been lots of talk that PR will open a route to SAN via YVR.

This ofcourse can now come to fruition with the acquisition of new aircrafts.

Drew
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flydreamliner
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RE: FI: PAL Selects 777

Tue Nov 21, 2006 1:57 am

Quoting YULWinterSkies (Reply 25):
When 2 choices are available, the most modern usually wins. Have you recently seen carriers ordering 767s instead of 332s for example?

2 useless A-bashing replies.

That sounds defensive. They aren't useless - A346 shares a type rating with the A343's in PAL's fleet, the 773ER does not, likewise mx would be similar between the two - so it is significant 777 was chosen over A340 here. It's also significant that almost no new airlines at all have ordered A346 recently, only its initial customers adding a few more.... and some airlines like CX are getting rid of them.
"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
 
DIA
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RE: FI: PAL Selects 777

Tue Nov 21, 2006 2:05 am

Quoting Lostmoon744 (Reply 33):
Mabuhay!

Well said. It'll be nice to see PAL enter the 777 family. The livery will look great on the long-bodied ERs. Hopefully these a/c will start a great new era for PR...much like yesteryear when PAL was renowned for their service (on their 747, DC-10, A300, and DC-8 international flights...

remember their "Love Bus" service?!
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797charter
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RE: FI: PAL Selects 777

Tue Nov 21, 2006 2:16 am

Quoting Johnny (Reply 8):
So another airline which switches from the B747 to the B777-300ER...



Quoting Solnabo (Reply 9):
It was expected imo PAL ordered the 73ER, but surprised there´s no order for the 748i.



Quoting Johnny (Reply 12):
think they had the B744 still on order, so the decision was made simplier

As I see it, Boeing was the logical choice, - as the had the B744 on order.
But what surprises me, and also worries me a little, is that even a 744 operator switches to the 773 - and then still no confirmed 748 in the book.


Regards

Steen
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airlineaddict
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RE: FI: PAL Selects 777

Tue Nov 21, 2006 2:54 am

Quoting Lostmoon744 (Reply 33):
I am curious to know, with PR's potentially new routes, would any of those new sectors be to/from the eastern United States? JFK/EWR?

Unfortunately, I don't think so. If anything, I would think that the new 77Ws would be used on the flights to YVR and LAS as well as the additional A343 flights to LAX and SFO. The freed up A343s could be used to develop routes to SAN and SEA. China and India have also been mentioned as has Italy.

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2006/...ess/AS_FIN_Philippine_Airlines.php

Can you imagine flying a 77W from YVR to LAS?  drool 
 
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Stitch
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RE: FI: PAL Selects 777

Tue Nov 21, 2006 3:14 am

Quoting 797charter (Reply 37):
But what surprises me, and also worries me a little, is that even a 744 operator switches to the 773 - and then still no confirmed 748 in the book.

PR probably feels the 747 is too large, which is why they never consumated their last 744 order.
 
797charter
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RE: FI: PAL Selects 777

Tue Nov 21, 2006 3:20 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 39):
Quoting 797charter (Reply 37):
But what surprises me, and also worries me a little, is that even a 744 operator switches to the 773 - and then still no confirmed 748 in the book.

PR probably feels the 747 is too large, which is why they never consumated their last 744 order.

Well right, - but as I read the article, the 773 are going to replace their old 744's...
Keep it clear of the propellers
 
jacobin777
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RE: FI: PAL Selects 777

Tue Nov 21, 2006 3:27 am

Quoting KL808 (Reply 34):

As of late there has been lots of talk that PR will open a route to SAN via YVR.

A 773W to SAN? Now that that would be a sight to see..!!
"Up the Irons!"
 
Lostmoon744
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RE: FI: PAL Selects 777

Tue Nov 21, 2006 3:30 am

Quoting AirlineAddict (Reply 38):
Can you imagine flying a 77W from YVR to LAS? drool

 drool  indeed! That would be awesome. Thanks for the article and your opinion. Living in New York City, it would be wonderful to see PR colors in JFK or EWR one day; but for now, it looks like I'll have to travel to PST for any PR flights.
 
irobertson
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RE: FI: PAL Selects 777

Tue Nov 21, 2006 3:38 am

Quoting 797charter (Reply 40):
Well right, - but as I read the article, the 773 are going to replace their old 744's...

Maybe they aren't completely filling them and they could stand to have a slightly smaller and more efficient airplane? I dunno.
 
jfk777
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RE: FI: PAL Selects 777

Tue Nov 21, 2006 3:39 am

What often gets lost in these A346 vs. 773ER comparisons is the A346 with new engines and different systems a very different plane then the A343. The 773ER is not as diiferent from a GE90 powered 772ER then the A346 vs. A343.
 
Trvlr
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RE: FI: PAL Selects 777

Tue Nov 21, 2006 4:19 am

If the new aircraft aren't to be delivered until 2009, how does this affect PAL's expansion plans? In some press articles recently, PAL indicated that new routes to SAN and SEA would start much earlier, within 6-12 months.

Aaron G.
 
Devilfish
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RE: FI: PAL Selects 777

Tue Nov 21, 2006 4:48 am

Quoting WINGS (Reply 3):

I'm surprised to see that only two will be bought, while four are being leased.

Only two will be leased and the last two are options with Boeing.

Quoting Centrair (Reply 5):
Maybe this is part of the 15 777 orders talked about in Seattle PI

This is not a part of that order.

Quoting Andrewtang (Reply 15):
Obviously GEAC had fought hard to lease 2 B773ER to PR.

Or it may be the other way around.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 19):
So if they are leased from GECAS, GECAS will evidently be placing another order per that source.

As mentioned in the report, the two airframes from GECAS were still only covered by an LOI and has yet to be finalized.

Quoting Tak (Reply 26):
I'm Curious whether the options will be used and if so when.

Per another report, PR was expecting the 773ERs until 2011. A lot of things could happen between now and then.

Quoting 797charter (Reply 40):
Well right, - but as I read the article, the 773 are going to replace their old 744's...

That wouldn't be till much later as they're still short on capacity and six 773ERs just aren't enough for their plans.

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 44):
What often gets lost in these A346 vs. 773ER comparisons is the A346 with new engines and different systems a very different plane then the A343.

Aircraft merits aside, Boeing had the aces in this deal. Boeing was holding substantial deposits which, given PR's financial situation, would be suicidal to forfeit. The A346 with no other engine choice is severely handicapped as PR might be looking for a leaseback deal with GECAS, while the rest of the fleet have GE engines. Airbus in their current predicament is not in a position to offer PR a deal to offset the potential loss of the 744 deposits, nor might they be inclined to even if they could. Lastly, the contentious point of the 773ER being more economical than the 346.

Quoting Trvlr (Reply 45):
PAL indicated that new routes to SAN and SEA would start much earlier, within 6-12 months.

I think those plans were not this definite.
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
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glideslope
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RE: FI: PAL Selects 777

Tue Nov 21, 2006 5:00 am

Quoting Centrair (Reply 16):
I too had them pegged for the A346. 773ER is turning out to be a real hit for the Seattle (Chicago) folks. Wonder if/when a US carrier will order some.

The 777 in general this year. I knew the 345/346 were falling out of favor quickly for their inefficiency, but even I'm surprised at the amount of 777 sales.  bigthumbsup 
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justloveplanes
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RE: FI: PAL Selects 777

Tue Nov 21, 2006 5:12 am

Quoting SSTsomeday (Reply 29):
Actually, to be fair, I believe they were in response to what could be considered a flippant, B-bashing comment.... regarding the 747-8....

Quoting Johnny (Reply 8):
So another airline which switches from the B747 to the B777-300ER...

The comment on taking a 77W instead of 748I is not bashing in anyway whatsoever the 748I. It is simply pointing out a real trend based on the outstanding qualities of 77W that is performing above everybody's expectations and I'd be willing to bet that includes Boeing.

The reason I find Johnny's comment intersting is that every 77W choice over a VLA enhances a case for Boeing to stop jumping through hoops over the 748I and concentrate on improving the 777 still further. It is the right aircraft for the times and it can made even more dominant. With the recent announcment of the XWB-1000 to 2015 at least, the dilemma becomes a bit more interesting.
 
KL808
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RE: FI: PAL Selects 777

Tue Nov 21, 2006 5:13 am

Quoting AirlineAddict (Reply 38):
Can you imagine flying a 77W from YVR to LAS?



Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 41):
A 773W to SAN? Now that that would be a sight to see..!!

Though it would be cool to see B77W's in YVR, LAS and hopefully SAN, I doubt that will happen.

PR will stick to the A343 on those routes. The B77W's would just be too big of an aircraft for that market.

Expect to see the B77W's to replace the A343 flights to SFO and LAX.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 39):

PR probably feels the 747 is too large, which is why they never consumated their last 744 order.

PR doesn't feel that the B744 is too small, they want something bigger and have shown a lot of interest in buying A380's, but due to their financial stand point they cant buy them.

The A380/B748 capacity would be well fitted on the MNL-LAX/SFO route.

I think there was some talk a couple of months back that PR was looking at purchasing/leasing 2 A380's. Maybe ILFC would be a good partner.

Drew
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