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Buyantukhaa
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Attack On El Al Plane Foiled In FRA

Tue Nov 21, 2006 1:55 am

Quote:
German authorities are investigating a number of people in connection with what they suspect was a foiled plot to smuggle a bomb onto a passenger plane, the Federal Prosecutor's Office said on Monday.

German security sources said on condition of anonymity that the plane would have been at Frankfurt International Airport, one of the world's busiest. German newspaper Die Welt cited security sources as saying the target was a plane of Israel's El Al airline.

An El Al spokeswoman in Israel said the company does not respond to reports about security matters.

Prosecutors in Karlsruhe said they were investigating six suspects whom they had identified and a number of unidentified suspects. None of the names have been made public.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3330547,00.html
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LHStarAlliance
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RE: Attack On El Al Plane Foiled In FRA

Tue Nov 21, 2006 2:04 am

I hope the Police continues working as good as they are...
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N353SK
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RE: Attack On El Al Plane Foiled In FRA

Tue Nov 21, 2006 2:05 am

Did they even make it to the airport?
 
ltbewr
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RE: Attack On El Al Plane Foiled In FRA

Tue Nov 21, 2006 2:07 am

While FRA is not a perfect security airport, (no airport is) I would suspect that they do have higher than average security from my experiences as recent as of 2000. I would also suspect the additional security of El Al would have caught them if the FRA security didn't. Let us be glad that a potential threat was nailed by good police work.
 
Gr8Circle
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RE: Attack On El Al Plane Foiled In FRA

Tue Nov 21, 2006 2:12 am

I hopes this shuts up all those a.nutters who keep complaining about the security "hype" every time such topics are posted on this forum.....
 
haggis79
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RE: Attack On El Al Plane Foiled In FRA

Tue Nov 21, 2006 4:39 am

Quoting N353SK (Reply 2):
Did they even make it to the airport?

According to german news-sites they have been arrested in a very early stage of their plans, so no, they didn't make it to the airport. I think there is not even a completed bomb yet.

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 3):
While FRA is not a perfect security airport, (no airport is) I would suspect that they do have higher than average security from my experiences as recent as of 2000. I would also suspect the additional security of El Al would have caught them if the FRA security didn't.

authorities have not given very much about how the plot exactly looked like to the press. Only thing that is known is that they approached some guy working at FRA ground staff to smuggle a bomb into a plane (not even that it would have been El Al is confirmed, by the way). So your assumption may or may not be correct.

Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 4):
I hopes this shuts up all those a.nutters who keep complaining about the security "hype" every time such topics are posted on this forum.....

eh... why should it? Again a plot was killed by good intelligence work rather than by confiscating nail scissors or bottles of water....

EDIT: here are some links for those of you who speak German:
http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/justiz/0,1518,449593,00.html
http://www.sueddeutsche.de/,tt2l1/deutschland/artikel/249/92157/

I'll try to post a comprehension in English later... don't have that much time right now...

[Edited 2006-11-20 20:43:37]
300 310 319/20/21 332/3 343 AT4/7 143 B19 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 742/4 752/3 763/4 77E/W CR2/7/9 D95 E45/70 F50 F70 100 M11 M90
 
SFOMEX
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RE: Attack On El Al Plane Foiled In FRA

Tue Nov 21, 2006 4:45 am

El Al's security is so good that I wonder if those terrorists really waste their time plotting to shut down one of its planes. Their record speaks by itself...

Kudos to the German police!
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PanHAM
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RE: Attack On El Al Plane Foiled In FRA

Tue Nov 21, 2006 4:58 am

first of all -proves that good intelligence is much better than taking nail scissors away from old ladies.

next - since January this year, access to the airside is only possoible after thorough checks. I doubt that anyone with a red ID can get a suitcase through this security check without having a proper explanation. Most likely the plot would foil here already.

However, if a loader working on an El Al (or any other aircraft) would make it airside with a baggage piece it is likely that the other seacurity measures - no luggage loaded without passenger boarded - would probably fail.

Therefore - background checks and the lifting of passes (like it was done in Paris recently for 72 muslim workers) if in doubt, together with survaillance and intelkligence, is the right way to prevent terror attacks.
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todaReisinger
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RE: Attack On El Al Plane Foiled In FRA

Tue Nov 21, 2006 9:08 am

Quoting SFOMEX (Reply 6):
El Al's security is so good that I wonder if those terrorists really waste their time plotting to shut down one of its planes. Their record speaks by itself...

I would not be that convinced about the effectiveness of El Al's security system. And the danger of the dozens of airport workers around each parked airplane is of course one of the most serious. Not everyone is able to work unattended for an El Al plane, but in the meantime there is not a security agent near each airport worker all the time. Such a plot is a serious danger (among many others btw).
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Sabena332
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RE: Attack On El Al Plane Foiled In FRA

Tue Nov 21, 2006 9:21 am

This is what I have seen/heard/read in the news:

Some dudes planned to bomb down an El Al flight - originating from FRA - with a bomb hidden in a suitcase, and they wanted to bring it onboard with bribing an airport employee.  rotfl 

I simply can't believe how retarded some people are (fortunately they were that retarded!). No wonder that the police caught them in such an early stage of the planning.

Patrick
NZ1's mother is a disgusting crack-whore and his father is a worthless alcoholic!
 
todaReisinger
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RE: Attack On El Al Plane Foiled In FRA

Tue Nov 21, 2006 9:29 am

Quoting Sabena332 (Reply 9):
Some dudes planned to bomb down an El Al flight - originating from FRA - with a bomb hidden in a suitcase, and they wanted to bring it onboard with bribing an airport employee.

I simply can't believe how retarded some people are (fortunately they were that retarded!). No wonder that the police caught them in such an early stage of the planning.

there's really nothing amusing about this story. And just keep in mind: the most stupid, the craziest and the most unthinkable is sometimes the most "efficient"....
I bitterly miss the livery that should never have been changed (repetition...)
 
CXA330300
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RE: Attack On El Al Plane Foiled In FRA

Tue Nov 21, 2006 9:36 am

Any news on what sort of bomb it would have been?

Well done to the German police...
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Sabena332
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RE: Attack On El Al Plane Foiled In FRA

Tue Nov 21, 2006 9:39 am

Quoting TodaReisinger (Reply 10):
there's really nothing amusing about this story.

You are right. I just found it funny that some idiots thought that they can bomb an El Al plane via such a way.

Quoting TodaReisinger (Reply 10):
And just keep in mind: the most stupid, the craziest and the most unthinkable is sometimes the most "efficient"....

Yes, but - come on - what these guys tried was simply too stupid!

Patrick

PS: I'll fly on LY in January next year, and I am looking forward to it!
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airfrancejfk
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RE: Attack On El Al Plane Foiled In FRA

Tue Nov 21, 2006 9:41 am

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 7):
However, if a loader working on an El Al (or any other aircraft) would make it airside with a baggage piece it is likely that the other seacurity measures - no luggage loaded without passenger boarded - would probably fail.

Don't know if this would work. At JFK, El Al screen all of it's employees before they get to the aircraft. If you watch any El Al arrival, you will see their security agents hand wanding all loading, catering, fueling etc. employees before they get near the aircraft.

In addition, I understand that evertime the employee leaves the aircraft and return, they are subject to rescreening.
 
swissy
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RE: Attack On El Al Plane Foiled In FRA

Tue Nov 21, 2006 9:42 am

First well done German police (die polizei dein freund & helfer) which means something like "the police your friend & helper"

However I think especially Germany learned and did a lot since the 70's terror crap happen in Munich, job well done....

Cheers,
 
todaReisinger
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RE: Attack On El Al Plane Foiled In FRA

Tue Nov 21, 2006 9:52 am

Quoting Sabena332 (Reply 12):
Yes, but - come on - what these guys tried was simply too stupid!

I hope so, but I don't know; and sadly, terrorists are rarely that stupid these days....

Quoting Sabena332 (Reply 12):
PS: I'll fly on LY in January next year, and I am looking forward to it!

Great, and that means you're going to visit Israel....! Make sure to stay a few days in TLV...really a great city, I just love it.
I bitterly miss the livery that should never have been changed (repetition...)
 
7474ever
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RE: Attack On El Al Plane Foiled In FRA

Tue Nov 21, 2006 6:49 pm

From "HaAretz", one of Israel's leading newspapers :


Germany nabs group planning to attack El Al flight

By Assaf Uni and Zohar Blumenkrantz

BERLIN - German police arrested six Muslims over the weekend on suspicion of planning to blow up an El Al aircraft upon take-off from a Frankfurt airport, German security officials told the German paper Die Welt.

The six allegedly contacted an airport worker last summer whom they planned to bribe to bring an explosive charge disguised as a suitcase on the flight. The German prosecution announced the arrest yesterday, but refused to reveal the details of the plan.

The prosecution said the plan was foiled after the six were unable to agree on the amount of money to pay the worker.

El Al Israel Airlines said it knew nothing of the plot except what had been published in the German press. El Al's Frankfurt office said it did not wish to comment on security matters. However, a source said El Al had not been involved in thwarting the plot at the Frankfurt airport, during either security checks or passenger check-in.

The police said the group was working for an undisclosed terrorist organization. Five of the suspects were released yesterday after 24 hours in lockup.
 
windshear
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RE: Attack On El Al Plane Foiled In FRA

Tue Nov 21, 2006 6:58 pm

Quoting SFOMEX (Reply 6):
El Al's security is so good that I wonder if those terrorists really waste their time plotting to shut down one of its planes. Their record speaks by itself...

Yes, but one day they might succeed.

I am acquainted with one El Al security worker, and my source tells me, that FRA is mostly being uncooperative. At times German police have been asked to remove a person whom El Al deemed suspicious, and the police refused.

Quote:
Several of the suspects had approached someone during the summer who had access to the security department at a German airport and who had expressed willingness to smuggle a suitcase or bag onto a plane for payment, a statement said.

The suspects repeatedly made contact with the person but were unable to agree on a price for planting a bomb, it said. Die Welt said the person was a male employee of Frankfurt airport.

That is not funny at all, in fact it is very serious, and FRA should really start to evaluate their personnel... My source tells me this as well.

Boaz.

[Edited 2006-11-21 10:58:56]

[Edited 2006-11-21 11:02:14]
"If you believe breaking is possible, believe in fixing also"-Rebbe Nachman
 
peh
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RE: Attack On El Al Plane Foiled In FRA

Tue Nov 21, 2006 7:05 pm

Quoting Ual777 (Reply 16):
The offenders weren't (gasp).....muslim were they?

This is utterly offensive! Like most members of civilised society, I'd rather see militants (Islamic or otherwise) behind bars than beside me on a plane. Painting an entire religion as prone to terror just paints you as an idiot.
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7474ever
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RE: Attack On El Al Plane Foiled In FRA

Tue Nov 21, 2006 7:06 pm

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 7):
However, if a loader working on an El Al (or any other aircraft) would make it airside with a baggage piece it is likely that the other seacurity measures - no luggage loaded without passenger boarded - would probably fail.

It doesn't have to be a piece of luggage. It can be the bomb itself smuggeled into one of the suitcases. In this case "other security measures" you mentioned worth nothing.

Quoting Sabena332 (Reply 9):
Some dudes planned to bomb down an El Al flight - originating from FRA - with a bomb hidden in a suitcase, and they wanted to bring it onboard with bribing an airport employee.

I simply can't believe how retarded some people are (fortunately they were that retarded!). No wonder that the police caught them in such an early stage of the planning.

I really don't think these guys are stupid. As a matter of fact, LY takes these threats VERY SERIOUSLY.
 
Bobski
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RE: Attack On El Al Plane Foiled In FRA

Tue Nov 21, 2006 7:54 pm

Quoting Peh (Reply 19):
This is utterly offensive! Like most members of civilised society, I'd rather see militants (Islamic or otherwise) behind bars than beside me on a plane. Painting an entire religion as prone to terror just paints you as an idiot

I don't understand why these people are called 'militants'. They're not 'militants', they are terrorists.

I agree that it is wrong to paint an entire religion as terrorists, but I can understand why some people feel that way. Every major international terrorist attack of the last 20-odd years has been perpetrated by Islamic terrorists. Whenever someone calls on the Islamic world/community to do something, they shuffle their feet and do nothing. When moderate peaceful Muslims do nothing to differentiate themselves from terrorists except complain that they are being victimised and profiled by anti-terror legislation then of course people are going to distrust Muslims.
Who is Benjamin Breeg?
 
Gary2880
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RE: Attack On El Al Plane Foiled In FRA

Tue Nov 21, 2006 8:05 pm

Quoting Peh (Reply 19):
Quoting Ual777 (Reply 16):
The offenders weren't (gasp).....muslim were they?

This is utterly offensive! Like most members of civilised society, I'd rather see militants (Islamic or otherwise) behind bars than beside me on a plane. Painting an entire religion as prone to terror just paints you as an idiot.

Exactly, i also find it offencive for someone to think that only Muslims can hate Israel

 mischievous 
Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel :- Samuel Johnson
 
WesternA318
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RE: Attack On El Al Plane Foiled In FRA

Tue Nov 21, 2006 8:10 pm

Quoting Bobski (Reply 21):
Every major international terrorist attack of the last 20-odd years has been perpetrated by Islamic terrorists. Whenever someone calls on the Islamic world/community to do something, they shuffle their feet and do nothing. When moderate peaceful Muslims do nothing to differentiate themselves from terrorists except complain that they are being victimised and profiled by anti-terror legislation then of course people are going to distrust Muslims.

Amen to that, remind me ot Paypal ya $500
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aeroplan73
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RE: Attack On El Al Plane Foiled In FRA

Tue Nov 21, 2006 8:15 pm

Quoting BuyantUkhaa (Thread starter):
Again a plot was killed by good intelligence work rather than by confiscating nail scissors or bottles of water....

 checkmark 
I remember, the choices were chicken or fish. I had the lasagna.
 
Gary2880
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RE: Attack On El Al Plane Foiled In FRA

Tue Nov 21, 2006 8:20 pm

Quoting Bobski (Reply 21):
Every major international terrorist attack of the last 20-odd years has been perpetrated by Islamic terrorists.

Missed the Brighton bomb by 2 years, lucky quote.

Quoting Bobski (Reply 21):
When moderate peaceful Muslims do nothing to differentiate themselves from terrorists

Why should the billion other peaceful Muslims have to prove themselves to ignorant Westerners? do you proactively differentiate yourself from the BNP, KKK or Neo Nazi's? When you meet a black guy in the street is the first thing you say, hey there how are you by the way not a member of the KKK here!  Wink What would you like them to do? Terrorists would just as soon kill peaceful Muslims as not being true believers or some other crap. Muslims are not a country, are not a government, how would you like them to stop the terrorists? how would you like it if your faith was hijacked by a bunch of psycho's, and knowing the aforementioned psycho's would kill you soon as blink if you badmouth their cause.

Quoting Bobski (Reply 21):
then of course people are going to distrust Muslims.

You missed out a word in that sentance

then of course ignorant people are going to distrust Muslims.

There you go  Smile
Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel :- Samuel Johnson
 
peh
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RE: Attack On El Al Plane Foiled In FRA

Tue Nov 21, 2006 8:27 pm

Quoting WesternA318 (Reply 23):
Amen to that, remind me ot Paypal ya $500

Hmm, Timothy McVeigh. Yeah, we'll keep bringing it up. Every person is capable of terrible acts. WESTERNA318, you're (a big) part of the problem. The sooner you realise that, the safer this world will be for me and my kids.

[Edited 2006-11-21 12:31:16]

[Edited 2006-11-21 12:33:06]
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windshear
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RE: Attack On El Al Plane Foiled In FRA

Tue Nov 21, 2006 8:42 pm

Quoting Peh (Reply 26):
Hmm, Timothy McVeigh



Quoting Gary2880 (Reply 25):
Missed the Brighton bomb by 2 years, lucky quote.

Clearly Bobski's point is still valid.

Boaz.
"If you believe breaking is possible, believe in fixing also"-Rebbe Nachman
 
AirNZ
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RE: Attack On El Al Plane Foiled In FRA

Tue Nov 21, 2006 8:47 pm

Quoting Peh (Reply 26):
Hmm, Timothy McVeigh. Yeah, we'll keep bringing it up. Every person is capable of terrible acts. WESTERNA318, you're (a big) part of the problem. The sooner you realise that, the safer this world will be for me and my kids.

I certainly see your point yes, but I can also see where he's (and other's) coming from.
I am not racist in any way, nor am I ignorant of it, but my experience over the last 30 years has taught me that certainly whilst not all members of a community actively support terrorism, a very large majority will equally do nothing to help prevent it out of misplaced 'loyality', or whatever you may wish to call it (such as cooperating with police etc. to bring perpetrators to justice).
To be honest, the world will be a safer place for you and your children when authorities start doing something about it instead of pandering to claims of 'victimisation' etc.
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Gary2880
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RE: Attack On El Al Plane Foiled In FRA

Tue Nov 21, 2006 8:56 pm

Quoting Windshear (Reply 27):
Clearly Bobski's point is still valid.

So clearly wrong yet it's still valid.

Well argued.  sarcastic 

Clearly you will use any oppertunity to have a pop at Muslims.  butthead 
Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel :- Samuel Johnson
 
windshear
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RE: Attack On El Al Plane Foiled In FRA

Tue Nov 21, 2006 9:04 pm

Quoting Gary2880 (Reply 29):
Clearly you will use any oppertunity to have a pop at Muslims.

ok?!  scratchchin 

Sour looser Big grin

Boaz.
"If you believe breaking is possible, believe in fixing also"-Rebbe Nachman
 
Gary2880
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RE: Attack On El Al Plane Foiled In FRA

Tue Nov 21, 2006 9:09 pm

After our time apart I'm glad to see your strength of argument is still on top form, Windfart  Smile
Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel :- Samuel Johnson
 
windshear
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RE: Attack On El Al Plane Foiled In FRA

Tue Nov 21, 2006 9:23 pm

Quoting Gary2880 (Reply 31):
After our time apart I'm glad to see your strength of argument is still on top form, Windfart

 rotfl  but Gary, you are the one resorting to name-calling  rotfl 

Boaz.
"If you believe breaking is possible, believe in fixing also"-Rebbe Nachman
 
Gary2880
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RE: Attack On El Al Plane Foiled In FRA

Tue Nov 21, 2006 9:28 pm

Oh, sorry about that i accidentally mistyped your name, a thousand apologies  Smile
Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel :- Samuel Johnson
 
Curmudgeon
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RE: Attack On El Al Plane Foiled In FRA

Tue Nov 21, 2006 9:48 pm

Quoting Peh (Reply 19):
This is utterly offensive! Like most members of civilised society, I'd rather see militants (Islamic or otherwise) behind bars than beside me on a plane. Painting an entire religion as prone to terror just paints you as an idiot.

It is subjective. I wasn't offended. You would rather see militants behind bars for what? being militant? Having an opinion? A belief system?

Further, he didn't paint all Muslims as prone to being terrorists. He was saying that most terrorists are prone to being Muslim. To assert otherwise makes you sound like an idiot, and a knee jerk one at that.

Also, on a thread about a foiled attack on El Al, is it such a stretch to think that a Muslim might be involved?
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Bobski
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RE: Attack On El Al Plane Foiled In FRA

Tue Nov 21, 2006 11:06 pm

Gary2880:

The Brighton bomb was domestic terrorism, I was talking about major international terrorism. Lockerbie, Beslan, 9/11, July 7th, Madrid, Bali, all those people Hezbollah kidnapped and killed in Lebanon over the last 20 years, these all have one common thread running through them and that is that they were all perpetrated by people claiming to be Muslims in the name of whatever crooked corruption of Islam it is they follow. However I accept that my statement may have been misleading, so for the sake of clarity, I will clarify my statement as "The majority of serious international terrorism over the last 20-odd years..."

I personally believe Islam is a noble and peaceful religion, I really do. I believe that terrorists aren't true Muslims, just crackpots who have corrupted an otherwise noble faith to justify mass murder. This is why I think it is important for real, moderate true Muslims to stand up and distance themselves from these people. You're right, people are ignorant. They are ignorant of the difference between Islam and people who kill in the name of their corrupt version of Islam. It is precisely because people are so ignorant that true Muslims need to do more to help fight extremists and terrorists. By standing up to extremists who murder in the name of their faith, they can show the world that extremists do not speak for them. By sitting back and doing nothing they only help the ignorant masses in their generalisation of Islam as a violent faith.

[Edited 2006-11-21 15:08:02]
Who is Benjamin Breeg?
 
Gary2880
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RE: Attack On El Al Plane Foiled In FRA

Tue Nov 21, 2006 11:29 pm

Quoting Bobski (Reply 35):
international terrorism

i see so you were talking about international terrorism. terrorism that comes from abroad. yes i can see how foreigners would make up a larger majority of people coming from abroad

put it another way. The word terrorism does not go hand in hand with brown skin. Dunblane, Brighton, Omagh, Oklahoma city, All white and all home grown, all terrorists terrorizing the people. Given the current climate yes it is hardly surprising alot of terrorists are Muslim. but not ALL terrorists are Muslim as is proven by the attacks i listed above. To instantly jump to the Muslim conclusion is a wrong one, holier than thou attitudes. is wrong. It is racist, and it is sickening.

Quoting Bobski (Reply 35):
moderate true Muslims to stand up and distance themselves from these people.

as they do when they can. you must agree it is understandable that it may happen less than you would like, less than they would like as well no doubt, risking getting blown up by your ''own'' kind. to attempt to prove a point to the West. When they do protest few people bother to watch al jazeera, or read Arabic news papers, where such things will be reported. i highly doubt such a story would grace the desks of Faux news and CNN. Not exactly the ''angle'' they are after.

Quoting Bobski (Reply 35):
By standing up to extremists

Would you stand up to a suicide bomber, someone so brain washed they are willing to blow themselves up. I hear so much what Muslims should do, not very often do i hear a solution that the author would be willing to do themselves in a similar situation.
Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel :- Samuel Johnson
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Attack On El Al Plane Foiled In FRA

Tue Nov 21, 2006 11:41 pm

Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 4):
I hopes this shuts up all those a.nutters who keep complaining about the security "hype" every time such topics are posted on this forum.....

First of all, great job there.

As for the hype, I think that the threat is real. However, the "hype" (yes it exists) has unfortunately led to ineffective but expensive security measures in most places. I'd rather see effective security measures than the joke we have in many places today.

I would not complain about being bodysearched and questioned every time I have to go to the airport. However, I will complain about money being wasted if it isn't having an impact.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
georgiaame
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RE: Attack On El Al Plane Foiled In FRA

Tue Nov 21, 2006 11:52 pm

Within the past month, some idiot posed the question on this BB, asking why El Al needed the security they impose on all their flights. Naturally, there were a gazillion responses and innumerable excuses and complaints from the politically correct hand wringers.

Let me post just one response.

THIS IS WHY! Live with it.
"Trust, but verify!" An old Russian proverb, quoted often by a modern American hero
 
F22KA
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RE: Attack On El Al Plane Foiled In FRA

Tue Nov 21, 2006 11:54 pm

Right, terrorists! Who believes in terrorists and tooth fairy? There is no such thing... It is just a fabrication of Mossad and CIA so that they can control the World. (sarcastic)
Of course there are terrorists and these morons are a threat to the civilized World.
I wonder what would happen if some of these morons would start teaching their children to live for Allah and not just die for Allah.
 
CO7e7
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RE: Attack On El Al Plane Foiled In FRA

Tue Nov 21, 2006 11:58 pm

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 3):
While FRA is not a perfect security airport, (no airport is)

I agree... not airport is has %100 perfect security... however, TLV is by far the closest to perfect i have seen and experienced.

-Zaki
 
Stratofish
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RE: Attack On El Al Plane Foiled In FRA

Wed Nov 22, 2006 12:07 am

First of all, we all shall use the word ALLEDGEDLY!!! So far we have not been presented proof, have we?

Quoting Windshear (Reply 17):
That is not funny at all, in fact it is very serious, and FRA should really start to evaluate their personnel... My source tells me this as well.

Anyone working airside at ANY German airport has to undergo the most comprehensive security- and background check(s) in the world. It is to be repeated every year and you actually sign a waiver document so the authorities in charge can legally "violate" your basic civil rights in order to determine if you are trustworthy or not.
So Fraport or whatever the respective employer was, must (and can easily) rely on the judgement of the authorities as they are in a better position to do so.

Your "source" should know that...
The Metro might be the Sub(optimal)way
 
rjpieces
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RE: Attack On El Al Plane Foiled In FRA

Wed Nov 22, 2006 12:14 am

Quoting Gary2880 (Reply 21):
Exactly, i also find it offencive for someone to think that only Muslims can hate Israel

Of course, you don't have to be Muslim to be a raging anti-Semite...
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
Gary2880
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RE: Attack On El Al Plane Foiled In FRA

Wed Nov 22, 2006 12:21 am

Precisely.

Although raging Communist would probably be more accurate.  Smile just for accuracy and balance. Muslims and Christians are hardly free from my contempt.

Don't want to be showing favouritism towards the Jews! i would like rid of all religions equally  Wink
Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel :- Samuel Johnson
 
F22KA
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RE: Attack On El Al Plane Foiled In FRA

Wed Nov 22, 2006 12:39 am

Gary2880, do not tell me you are a commie!
 
Gary2880
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RE: Attack On El Al Plane Foiled In FRA

Wed Nov 22, 2006 12:43 am

Okay i won't tell you.

 eyebrow   cheeky 
Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel :- Samuel Johnson
 
F22KA
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RE: Attack On El Al Plane Foiled In FRA

Wed Nov 22, 2006 12:57 am

You must be ... kidding me!!! You know, I have a special place in my hearth for you guys. I lived under commies for 20+ years, lost my grand parents in a forced labor camp... ,endured hunger, lived in cement blocks with no electricity and no heat in the winter... , subhuman living conditions.
commie = scum of the scum
 
F22KA
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RE: Attack On El Al Plane Foiled In FRA

Wed Nov 22, 2006 1:01 am

Dude it's like me bragging that I am a nazi, which I am not.
 
Sabena332
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RE: Attack On El Al Plane Foiled In FRA

Wed Nov 22, 2006 1:22 am

Quoting TodaReisinger (Reply 15):
Great, and that means you're going to visit Israel....! Make sure to stay a few days in TLV...really a great city

Unfortunately I won't be there as a tourist, a friend and me accompany a (female Big grin) volleyball team which is playing a tournament there. We'll organize a few things for them while they are staying there so I guess it will be more work than holidays. Anyway, we got a very good fare and I can imagine that it will be a lot of fun. Hopefully we'll have some time to explore Tel Aviv.

Patrick
NZ1's mother is a disgusting crack-whore and his father is a worthless alcoholic!
 
Gary2880
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RE: Attack On El Al Plane Foiled In FRA

Wed Nov 22, 2006 1:37 am

Quoting F22KA (Reply 45):

I have send you an instant message on the subject. Hopfully it will explain things. Please feel free to get back to me via pm or email.
Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel :- Samuel Johnson
 
Bobski
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RE: Attack On El Al Plane Foiled In FRA

Wed Nov 22, 2006 1:42 am

Quoting Gary2880 (Reply 35):
i see so you were talking about international terrorism. terrorism that comes from abroad. yes i can see how foreigners would make up a larger majority of people coming from abroad

put it another way. The word terrorism does not go hand in hand with brown skin. Dunblane, Brighton, Omagh, Oklahoma city, All white and all home grown, all terrorists terrorizing the people. Given the current climate yes it is hardly surprising alot of terrorists are Muslim. but not ALL terrorists are Muslim as is proven by the attacks i listed above. To instantly jump to the Muslim conclusion is a wrong one, holier than thou attitudes. is wrong. It is racist, and it is sickening.

I have NEVER said anything remotely like this. To blame the current climate for Muslim terrorism is stupidly short-sighted. Most Islamic terrorist attacks happened long before Bush/Blair/Iraq/whatever. I never said that all terrorists are Muslims, I said that most of the large international terrorist attacks of the last 20 years have been perpetrated by Islamic terrorists, hence why people might distrust them. You are right. There certainly have and always will be domestic terrorists like the ones you mentioned, but these attacks are relatively rare, relatively less lethal and as a result not as high a threat as Islamic terror which is a very real threat.You can spin it all you want, but these are FACTS.

Quoting Gary2880 (Reply 35):
Quoting Bobski (Reply 35):
moderate true Muslims to stand up and distance themselves from these people.

as they do when they can. you must agree it is understandable that it may happen less than you would like, less than they would like as well no doubt, risking getting blown up by your ''own'' kind. to attempt to prove a point to the West. When they do protest few people bother to watch al jazeera, or read Arabic news papers, where such things will be reported. i highly doubt such a story would grace the desks of Faux news and CNN. Not exactly the ''angle'' they are after.

If you watch Al Jazeera or read Arabic newspapers, you will see large numbers of extremists denying the Holocaust, blaming Jews for everything including 9/11 and promoting violent jihad against the Western infidels. My point was that the majority of peaceful moderate Muslims do not make their voices heard when there is a terror attack. Contrary to what you think, these kind of things would and do get reported by the BBC/CNN/Fox News/CBS/whatever. I suggest you actually watch some of these news networks before passing judgement.

Quoting Gary2880 (Reply 35):
Quoting Bobski (Reply 35):
By standing up to extremists

Would you stand up to a suicide bomber, someone so brain washed they are willing to blow themselves up. I hear so much what Muslims should do, not very often do i hear a solution that the author would be willing to do themselves in a similar situation.

What do you mean? Do you mean would I stand up to a suicide bomber if I knew one was near me and planning to blow himself up? I would bloody well try to. If you're talking about standing up against suicide bombing in general, then again yes I would. I don't see why it is so difficult for a community to condemn someone who is willing to murder innocent people in their name. People need to stand up and distance themselves from extremists. They need to start exposing the few radical violence-inciting Imams for the scum that they are and helping us to get rid of them. When the Muslim community don't speak out loud enough, the great and ignorant unwashed (also known as the readership of the tabloid press) will automatically assume that they support terrorism. Yes, some people really are that stupid.

I have tried to be civilised about this, but like all the other communists that I have met/spoken to you seem to not care about other people's opinions. If they don't live in your little fantasy world, then like all Reds you are quite happy to insult people and accuse them of racism when no such accusation is justified. This, of course, is why all communists that I have spoken to have zero credibility, because in the face of civilised discussion they simply resort to insults and statements with absolutely no basis in fact. At no point did I say all Muslims are terrorists, and at no point did I say all terrorists are Muslims/foreign/brown/whatever. If you seriously want to be taken seriously then I suggest you learn a little tolerance for other people's views, no matter what your personal opinion might be.

[Edited 2006-11-21 17:45:55]
Who is Benjamin Breeg?