ordflier
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Southwest Jumping On Delta Assets

Tue Nov 21, 2006 1:49 pm

New reports are reporting Southwest's interest in Delta assets which might be sold off to satisfy any governmental competition concerns.

Southwest is reported to be interested in gates, facilities and aircraft.

This whole mess is getting interesting.
ORDflier
 
SWA3GO
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RE: Southwest Jumping On Delta Assets

Tue Nov 21, 2006 1:56 pm

New reports are reporting Southwest's interest in Delta assets which might be sold off to satisfy any governmental competition concerns.[/quote]


Where did you see these reports?
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: Southwest Jumping On Delta Assets

Tue Nov 21, 2006 2:05 pm

Quoting ORDflier (Thread starter):
This whole mess is getting interesting.

WN is a very opportunity-driven organization, and I would not be surprised to see Southwest pick through assets DL may cast aside

Just be certain of one thing: WN has zero interest in the any sort of merger or acquisition of DL a la US Airways.
 
HPRamper
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RE: Southwest Jumping On Delta Assets

Tue Nov 21, 2006 2:05 pm

Gate space anyone? CVG for one is dying for some sizable LCC service....
 
AirTranTUS
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RE: Southwest Jumping On Delta Assets

Tue Nov 21, 2006 2:07 pm

I can understand gates at some airports, but the aircraft strike me as odd. They have no aircraft in common, unless WN wants some 738's, but they have so far indicated the opposite.
I love ASO!
 
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N328KF
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RE: Southwest Jumping On Delta Assets

Tue Nov 21, 2006 2:08 pm

Quoting SWA3GO (Reply 1):

Where did you see these reports?

Brief fair use excerpt from The Wall Street Journal:
Quote:

Southwest Aims to Buy Assets If US Air-Delta Deal Gets Done

[...]

Southwest Airlines Chief Executive Gary Kelly said he would be "very interested" in acquiring assets sold by US Airways Group Inc. or Delta Air Lines if the companies were to merge, potentially intensifying the bidding over coveted East Coast routes.

US Airways has said it likely would have to sell off some assets to quell antitrust concerns if its $8.7 billion hostile cash-and-stock bid for Delta succeeds. US Airways CEO Doug Parker said East Coast concerns could be addressed by selling one of the companies' overlapping Eastern shuttle services, which connect Boston, New York and Washington.

[...]

No other airline has signaled interest since the offer was announced, but analysts speculate that AMR Corp.'s American Airlines, Northwest Airlines or UAL Corp.'s United Airlines might be interested.

"We consider this [bid for Delta] a serious offer and a very substantial one, and one that we're assuming has a decent chance of actually happening," Mr. Kelly said in an interview late yesterday.

Mr. Kelly said Southwest Airlines co-founder and Chairman Herb Kelleher on Friday called executives at US Airways and Delta to let each airline know of Southwest's interest. "Assets could include aircraft, gates at airports, slots at slot-controlled airports," said Mr. Kelly, "but this is all very preliminary and who knows what twists and turns the deal will take. We just want to have an opportunity to grow on the East Coast."

[...]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB116406637902428854.html

[Edited 2006-11-21 06:12:12]
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
F9Animal
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RE: Southwest Jumping On Delta Assets

Tue Nov 21, 2006 2:12 pm

Delta is seriously getting jumped on. What is going on lately? Is there something about DL that we don't know? Is DL proactivley trying to sell assets or sell the airline?
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
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N328KF
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RE: Southwest Jumping On Delta Assets

Tue Nov 21, 2006 2:14 pm

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 6):
Delta is seriously getting jumped on. What is going on lately? Is there something about DL that we don't know? Is DL proactivley trying to sell assets or sell the airline?

It's got assets. Specifically, it has ex-PanAm assets (routes/slots). Sort of ironic that US Airways et. al. would be jumping on Delta for the same reason that Delta jumped on Pan Am.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
flydreamliner
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RE: Southwest Jumping On Delta Assets

Tue Nov 21, 2006 2:17 pm

Quoting AirTranTUS (Reply 4):
unless WN wants some 738's, but they have so far indicated the opposite.

If the price is right, why not?

Quoting N328KF (Reply 7):
It's got assets. Specifically, it has ex-PanAm assets (routes/slots). Sort of ironic that US Airways et. al. would be jumping on Delta for the same reason that Delta jumped on Pan Am.

You mean some of the most consistently profitable routes in commercial aviation? Pan-Am got in on the ground floor and built a very solid transatlantic operation. Those routes, DL's ex pan-am transatlantic routes, are golden.
"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: Southwest Jumping On Delta Assets

Tue Nov 21, 2006 2:19 pm

Quoting AirTranTUS (Reply 4):
I can understand gates at some airports, but the aircraft strike me as odd. They have no aircraft in common, unless WN wants some 738's, but they have so far indicated the opposite.

If the two carriers were to merge, the "game plan" over at WN would have to change, so we may yet see the 738 reconsidered. The logistic issues regarding a 737-800 fleet are not all together difficult as was discussed in 2004 when WN considered a bid for the TZ 738 fleet.

DL also holds about 50 737NG delivery slots IIRC, so WN may perhaps purchase the purchase rights to new jets  Wink
 
SWA3GO
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RE: Southwest Jumping On Delta Assets

Tue Nov 21, 2006 2:28 pm

Quoting N328KF (Reply 5):

Thanks for the article. Even a "Herb" referece in there. Interesting....
 
DLPMMM
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RE: Southwest Jumping On Delta Assets

Tue Nov 21, 2006 10:10 pm

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 8):
You mean some of the most consistently profitable routes in commercial aviation? Pan-Am got in on the ground floor and built a very solid transatlantic operation. Those routes, DL's ex pan-am transatlantic routes, are golden

Except for LHR, there are no "golden" transatlantic routes since open skies agreements went into effect with most European countries. WN's interest is clearly in the Shuttle operations, as mentioned in the cited article. I would also assume that WN would be interested in any DCA or LGA slots that might also become available.

This would make alot of sense for WN, as this fits perfectly into their business model of domestic short haul point to point service between major metropolitan areas. They know how to run an hourly bus service.
 
bobnwa
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RE: Southwest Jumping On Delta Assets

Tue Nov 21, 2006 10:16 pm

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 8):
Those routes, DL's ex pan-am transatlantic routes, are golden.

What routes would these be? Any US airline can fly pretty much anywhere it wants to in Europe with one exception which DL did get from PA (LHR)>
 
avconsultant
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RE: Southwest Jumping On Delta Assets

Tue Nov 21, 2006 10:21 pm

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 8):
Pan-Am got in on the ground floor and built a very solid transatlantic operation. Those routes, DL's ex pan-am transatlantic routes, are golden

Those routes were golden prior to the "open Skies Agreement", remember after DL soon discovered after purchasing the PanAm transatlantic network they overpaid. A lot of the PanAm routes were abandoned after 9/11. DL has now returned to focusing on the Atlantic from JFK. Unfortunately when DAL scaled back in 2001 and 2002, AA and CO seized the opportunity from BOS and EWR.

DL and USAirways both operate "The Shuttle". I can see SW showing interest. Also, I wonder if SW is banking on JFK consolidating the PHL and wanting to expand PHL?
 
UAL777UK
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RE: Southwest Jumping On Delta Assets

Tue Nov 21, 2006 10:25 pm

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 12):
What routes would these be? Any US airline can fly pretty much anywhere it wants to in Europe with one exception which DL did get from PA (LHR)>

 checkmark 
 
afay1
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RE: Southwest Jumping On Delta Assets

Tue Nov 21, 2006 10:26 pm

http://money.aol.com/news/articles/_...-for/n20061121080109990003?cid=403

If you read this version, the article's idiot author writes about Southwest's service to Manchester, Vt.!
 
scaledesigns
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RE: Southwest Jumping On Delta Assets

Tue Nov 21, 2006 10:31 pm

This is a nothing article.If the US/DL merger happened they would be forced
to sell some of the east coast operation by the goverment.Southwest is just getting in line,along with everybody else.
F1 Tommy
 
DLPMMM
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RE: Southwest Jumping On Delta Assets

Tue Nov 21, 2006 10:34 pm

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 12):
What routes would these be? Any US airline can fly pretty much anywhere it wants to in Europe with one exception which DL did get from PA (LHR)>

DL did not get any LHR rights from Pan Am. DL does not have any LHR rights.
 
TPAnx
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RE: Southwest Jumping On Delta Assets

Tue Nov 21, 2006 10:35 pm

Interesting. Recently read an article in one of the local papers headlined:
"What if they flew internationally?" It noted that SW flew more people
domestically than AA flew domestically and internationally. I'm not a fan of SW, but you have to admire the business model.
TPAnx
I read the news today..oh boy
 
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STT757
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RE: Southwest Jumping On Delta Assets

Tue Nov 21, 2006 10:43 pm

Quoting AvConsultant (Reply 13):
Also, I wonder if SW is banking on JFK consolidating the PHL and wanting to expand PHL?

WN would be interested in slots/gates at LGA, DCA, BOS and PHL.
There's also the possibility of US moving most if not all of DL's JFK operations to PHL, that would give WN a place to build a large operation in the NYC area.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
ltbewr
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RE: Southwest Jumping On Delta Assets

Tue Nov 21, 2006 10:44 pm

Perhaps WN would buy one of the LGA-BOS-DCA shuttles. That would fit into their general way of ops, of fast turnaround and the like. Clearly they could use 737's on those routes, so no problem there, and could run it with non-WN models for a while due to their route specificity. If as part of a deal they added gates from DL or US to their ATA gates, especially at LGA they already have, then they they could get a good foothold into all three markets at primary airports. It may also push some price competition into those markets on key routes, especially the shuttle.
 
BigOrange
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RE: Southwest Jumping On Delta Assets

Tue Nov 21, 2006 11:27 pm

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 20):
Perhaps WN would buy one of the LGA-BOS-DCA shuttles. That would fit into their general way of ops, of fast turnaround and the like.

They could also take over the Marine terminal at LGA which would give them an advantage for the short turnarounds.
 
bobnwa
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RE: Southwest Jumping On Delta Assets

Tue Nov 21, 2006 11:45 pm

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 17):
DL did not get any LHR rights from Pan Am. DL does not have any LHR rights

Thanks for the correction. I left out the word not.
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: Southwest Jumping On Delta Assets

Wed Nov 22, 2006 12:09 am

Quoting BigOrange (Reply 21):
They could also take over the Marine terminal at LGA which would give them an advantage for the short turnarounds.

LGA & DCA are the New York and Washington area airports WN covets getting slots into, and since US would have to divest more than just one or the other east coast shuttles, some of these slots would be $$$ for Doug Parker to gain back from Gary Kelly.
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
 
747luvr
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RE: Southwest Jumping On Delta Assets

Wed Nov 22, 2006 12:14 am

WN is picking up a bigger piece of the pie here at MCO...i think they're up to 100 flights a day now, maybe more (?). They took some of DL slots/gates here.
 
LawnDart
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RE: Southwest Jumping On Delta Assets

Wed Nov 22, 2006 12:28 am

Quoting ORDflier (Thread starter):
New reports are reporting Southwest's interest in Delta assets which might be sold off to satisfy any governmental competition concerns.

Actually, the article states Delta and/or USAirways assets...The aircraft in question are probably US's 733s, not DL's 738s...the gates in question are probably US's PHL and CLT facilities, not anything at DCA/LGA/JFK (although those would be prime assets to get).

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 11):
Except for LHR, there are no "golden" transatlantic routes since open skies agreements went into effect with most European countries.

Open entry does not apply to LGW either...that's why DL had to pay UA to assure they got the JFK-London route rights UA was dropping, even though DL would fly into LGW.

With WN making a blanket statement like that, you would expect DL to make a counter statement, and they did: "We are not offering any assets for sale". Also, JetBlue must be shi**ing in their mess kit, wondering if WN is coming to JFK. Watch for them to make a blanket "We're interested in assets, too" statement, as AirTran already has (before WN, even).

By the way, shouldn't this thread have been included in one of the "official-sanctioned by the airliners.net guard-dogs" threads?
 
777FlyGuy
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RE: Southwest Jumping On Delta Assets

Wed Nov 22, 2006 12:39 am

As with many threads on this board, people are putting the cart WAAAAY before the horse. This merger is far from a done deal. No one at DL wants it, the DOJ is going to scrutinize it very closely. I can't fathom why Parker and US feel the urge to merge when they haven't even proven they can make the current entity work, let alone digest another, larger carrier. But hey, in 25 years, WN will probably be the only airline flying in the USA.
 
Zone1
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RE: Southwest Jumping On Delta Assets

Wed Nov 22, 2006 12:43 am

Quoting STT757 (Reply 19):

WN would be interested in slots/gates at LGA, DCA, BOS and PHL.

I really don't see WN taking over the BOS-LGA part of Delta Shuttle. They have no presence at BOS, and there really isn't anything stopping them right now. BOS has plenty of open gates in Delta's A terminal and the airport isn't slot restricted.
/// U N I T E D
 
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TVNWZ
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RE: Southwest Jumping On Delta Assets

Wed Nov 22, 2006 1:15 am

Quoting 777FlyGuy (Reply 26):
I can't fathom why Parker and US feel the urge to merge when they haven't even proven they can make the current entity work, let alone digest another, larger carrier.

You do deals when the time is right financially, not necessarily operationally. It's all about the money--not operations.
 
777FlyGuy
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RE: Southwest Jumping On Delta Assets

Wed Nov 22, 2006 1:25 am

Quoting TVNWZ (Reply 28):
You do deals when the time is right financially, not necessarily operationally. It's all about the money--not operations.

So then the HP/US merger has proven financially sound and they are already making such profits that they feel they can shell out $8 billion for another merger? Sorry, I'm just a little skeptical here. This has disaster written all over it. Maybe not for the stockholders, but the employees and flying public will be the ones to suffer.
 
AtlBill
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RE: Southwest Jumping On Delta Assets

Wed Nov 22, 2006 1:37 am

Not that this would happen, however a Southwest and Delta merger makes a lot more sense from a route perspective then USAir and Delta.
 
coa747
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RE: Southwest Jumping On Delta Assets

Wed Nov 22, 2006 1:49 am

I for one do not think US Airways buying Delta would be a good thing. US Airways still hasn't worked out all the wrinkles of the first merger/buyout and now they want Delta. Delta will be better off on its own. I am against any further merging of the large legacy carriers. Why would we want less competition and higher prices. The United/US Airways deal was struck down and I see the same happening to this deal. The government isn't going to approve this. It is bad for consumers all the way around. I think Mr Parker has a Napoleon complex. Time to dial it down a notch and just focus on running your current airline and not taking over the world. Just ask American how that TWA merger went. Or rather the TWA employees.
 
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ptharris
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RE: Southwest Jumping On Delta Assets

Wed Nov 22, 2006 1:56 am

Quoting AtlBill (Reply 30):
Not that this would happen, however a Southwest and Delta merger makes a lot more sense from a route perspective then USAir and Delta.

I see where you're coming from, but you're right... it won't happen. Couple of things I see:

US - Internationally Recognized
DL - Internationally Recognized
WN - Southwest who?

Alliances:

US/HP - Star Alliance
DL - Skyteam
WN - no alliances

And not to mention that no other airline seems to want to work with Southwest or vice versa. And can you imagine boarding a DL 767 or 777 the Southwest style? It'd be nuts!! Besides, Canyon Blue shouldn't be painted on a widebody. It would depreciate the airframe.. Boeing or Airbus. Big grin
If at first you don't succeed, skydiving isn't for you.
 
DLPMMM
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RE: Southwest Jumping On Delta Assets

Wed Nov 22, 2006 2:03 am

Quoting Zone1 (Reply 27):
I really don't see WN taking over the BOS-LGA part of Delta Shuttle. They have no presence at BOS, and there really isn't anything stopping them right now. BOS has plenty of open gates in Delta's A terminal and the airport isn't slot restricted.

But LGA is slot restricted and space limited. No use in having a presence in BOS with no where to go! There is a reason that the BOS-LGA-DCA shuttles are highly valued operations.
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: Southwest Jumping On Delta Assets

Wed Nov 22, 2006 2:32 am

Quoting Ptharris (Reply 32):
US - Internationally Recognized
DL - Internationally Recognized
WN - Southwest who?

That's laughable. WN's success has been observed, praised, and copied all over the world. US and DL have been poster children of the ailing legacy carrier.

Heck, WN has a market cap worth more than those two airlines combine.

Quoting Ptharris (Reply 32):
And not to mention that no other airline seems to want to work with Southwest or vice versa.

Funny, how are Southwest passengers departing for HNL on a daily basis?

Quoting Ptharris (Reply 32):
And can you imagine boarding a DL 767 or 777 the Southwest style? It'd be nuts!!

Yeah, the flight might actually depart on time...  Wink
 
mtnwest1979
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RE: Southwest Jumping On Delta Assets

Wed Nov 22, 2006 2:52 am

Well, WN could pick up a DCA-LGA-BOS shuttle, but run it as a seperate entity, like Northeast Shuttle or something. Could even have business class,etc.
Guess it'll be the 2 year wait and see game.
"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
 
HPRamper
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RE: Southwest Jumping On Delta Assets

Wed Nov 22, 2006 3:17 am

Quoting 777FlyGuy (Reply 29):
So then the HP/US merger has proven financially sound and they are already making such profits that they feel they can shell out $8 billion for another merger? Sorry, I'm just a little skeptical here. This has disaster written all over it.

Most of that money is, in fact, coming from stock options which in no way affect the bottom line of US. Those stocks, by the way, are nearing an all-time high since Wall Street seems to feel differently about this proposal than you do. As for being bad for the employees, ask around for all those US and HP people who lost their jobs as a result of the merger. Oh wait...there aren't any. In fact the airline has taken on about 3500 new hires since the merger PLUS brought back the furloughs.

US would do a hell of a lot better job merging with DL than WN would. Besides, it would wreck the entire WN business model which is based on simplicity.

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 34):
Funny, how are Southwest passengers departing for HNL on a daily basis?

Wow. I understand you're just proving a point, but that's akin to Northwest having an alliance with only Sun Country. Not a big deal.
 
planemaker
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RE: Southwest Jumping On Delta Assets

Wed Nov 22, 2006 3:31 am

Quoting ORDflier (Thread starter):
New reports are reporting Southwest's interest in Delta assets which might be sold off to satisfy any governmental competition concerns.

Southwest is reported to be interested in gates, facilities and aircraft.

Well, it looks like they certainly will need them...

The BTS released the August traffic numbers and guess what...

Southwest hauled more pax than any other US carrier - 8.7-million pax (and that was for system wide numbers... not just domestic).

While WN beat out AA by just 200,000 pax BTW, AA is still the largest airline as measured by RPMs) it is nevertheless still amazing that Southwest had the most total enplanements!

And the above brings us back to why there are legacy merger talk and speculation... look at the growth of the LCCs and, in particular, look at WN's undelivered 73Gs on order.
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
 
ScottB
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RE: Southwest Jumping On Delta Assets

Wed Nov 22, 2006 3:37 am

Well, I do have to wonder if Gary Kelly is trying to stir the pot a bit here. One of the main reasons why Delta's creditors/Wall Street might be inclined to go along with the US/DL merger is the fact that the "new Delta" would be able to reduce East Coast capacity, thus driving up fares. If Southwest were to take assets divested from the combined entity (as dictated by DoJ's Antitrust Division), the whole revenue play gets blown out of the water -- especially if Southwest can pick up gates and slots at LGA and DCA.

The way I see it, DoJ will force the combined airline to sell off the assets of one of the Shuttles, as well as most or all of Delta's slot portfolio and gates at both LGA and DCA. As I mentioned in another thread, I also suspect one of the "synergies" US Airways expects to attain would be dumping Delta's lease on Terminal A at BOS through the bankruptcy court, given that US's half of Terminal B is severely underused. These would all be extremely attractive assets for WN to pick up.

I would also suspect that as a condition of merger approval, a combined DL/US would be forced to give up significant numbers of gates at both ATL and CLT. I can see them being forced to cede the gates they hold on Concourse D at ATL (or perhaps being forced to sell the north half of Concourse C) to AirTran or another bidder, as well as 10-20% of US's mainline jet gates at CLT. They would certainly be forced to give up Delta's gates at PHL, if not additional gates in Terminal B/C as well. Gate space no longer seems to be an issue at either PIT or CVG, although Delta might be required to give other airlines space in CVG's Terminal 3. What happens to SLC is less clear, especially since there is a strong WN presence at all PHX, LAS, and SLC, and competition for connecting traffic via DEN.

One of the biggest hurdles I see is going to be opposition from smaller communities in the Southeast and Northeast due to potentially significant losses in service and attendant higher fares. MEM and IAD really are not credible competitors for connecting traffic in most of the region. And Southwest is unlikely to start service to most small markets even if they were to pick up assets.
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: Southwest Jumping On Delta Assets

Wed Nov 22, 2006 3:43 am

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 36):
Wow. I understand you're just proving a point, but that's akin to Northwest having an alliance with only Sun Country. Not a big deal.

Ptharris' absolute statement that WN is not interested in code-share or alliance traffic is false. I'm not "proving a point," I'm correcting an assumption that is factually wrong. Sorry if that ruffles your feathers...

Perhaps it is analogous to NW/Sun Country, but it is nevertheless providing WN with significant revenue and load factors they would not otherwise have.
 
777FlyGuy
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RE: Southwest Jumping On Delta Assets

Wed Nov 22, 2006 3:44 am

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 36):
for being bad for the employees, ask around for all those US and HP people who lost their jobs as a result of the merger. Oh wait...there aren't any. In fact the airline has taken on about 3500 new hires since the merger PLUS brought back the furloughs.

Correct. Now what will happen to those employees after the estimated 10% capacity cut (probably larger) takes place? The redundancy on the east coast has to mean there are going to be significant cuts, thus job losses. So? Do they still need all the recalled employees? Assuming this merger happens, to think the airline isn't going to shrink is naive at best. We'll see....
 
avconsultant
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RE: Southwest Jumping On Delta Assets

Wed Nov 22, 2006 3:52 am

Quoting LawnDart (Reply 25):
.The aircraft in question are probably US's 733s, not DL's 738s

Jet Airways (India) placed a deposit on these aircraft with GECAS when DL entered BK last year. Grinstein was angered with GECAS acceptng the deposit which is normal for him, he's cooky as it is.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 19):
There's also the possibility of US moving most if not all of DL's JFK operations to PHL,

Really? That would surprise me with the issues US has experienced with PHL and DL new upgrades at JFK. The NYC is the worlds largest area for demand to Europe. Well, I just noticed my ATA breifing came in and today WSJ mentions DL JFK operations is fragmented and confusing.

Quoting Zone1 (Reply 27):
I really don't see WN taking over the BOS-LGA part of Delta Shuttle.

FL inquired about US shuttle ops in 2004. They're curbing back on aircraft deliveries and growth maybe this is a ploy to position themselves for this operation. History will show when FL is quiet is when you watch them.

Quoting 777FlyGuy (Reply 29):
So then the HP/US merger has proven financially sound and they are already making such profits that they feel they can shell out $8 billion for another merger?

Easily, Parker and team wants a reputable & well established carrier. At first glance everyone see's anti-trust issues. Most would see barriers where Parker, an entreuprenier, see's opportunity. He's working the divestitures to their advantage in paying off the merger. Looking at what his management team has accomplished they're already dangerous and more so after the DL acquisition.

Yesterday, WN said they were looking at assests. Today, CO has said the same thing. If FL is vocal, I'll be surprised they're the passive aggressive one. I would expect AA will say something soon other than they welcome a WN expansion somewhere other than Dallas.
 
avconsultant
Posts: 709
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 1:18 am

RE: Southwest Jumping On Delta Assets

Wed Nov 22, 2006 4:02 am

Quoting LawnDart (Reply 25):
.The aircraft in question are probably US's 733s, not DL's 738s

Jet Airways (India) placed a deposit on these aircraft with GECAS when DL entered BK last year. Grinstein was angered with GECAS accepting the deposit which is normal for him, he's kooky as it is.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 19):
There's also the possibility of US moving most if not all of DL's JFK operations to PHL,

Really? That would surprise me with the issues US has experienced with PHL and DL new upgrades at JFK. The NYC is the worlds largest area for demand to Europe. Well, I just noticed my ATA briefing came in and today WSJ mentions DL JFK operations is fragmented and confusing.

Quoting Zone1 (Reply 27):
I really don't see WN taking over the BOS-LGA part of Delta Shuttle.

FL inquired about US shuttle ops in 2004. They're curbing back on aircraft deliveries and growth maybe this is a ploy to position themselves for this operation. History will show when FL is quiet is when you watch them.

Quoting 777FlyGuy (Reply 29):
So then the HP/US merger has proven financially sound and they are already making such profits that they feel they can shell out $8 billion for another merger?

Easily, Parker and team wants a reputable & well established carrier. At first glance everyone sees anti-trust issues. Most would see barriers where Parker, an entrepreneur, sees opportunity. He's working the divestitures to their advantage in paying off the merger. Looking at what his management team has accomplished they're already dangerous and more so after the DL acquisition.

Yesterday, WN said they were looking at assets. Today, CO has said the same thing. If FL is vocal, I'll be surprised they're the passive aggressive one. I would expect AA will say something soon other than they welcome a WN expansion somewhere other than Dallas.
 
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ptharris
Posts: 244
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 12:58 pm

RE: Southwest Jumping On Delta Assets

Wed Nov 22, 2006 4:03 am

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 34):
Funny, how are Southwest passengers departing for HNL on a daily basis?

Are you serious? ATA? My God man, I was talking about a REAL airline. HAHA!! And lets see who is working with them.... umm... oh look... only Southwest. Hmm... market flexibility, yet again, non-existant. But nice try though.

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 34):
WN's success has been observed, praised, and copied all over the world.

Oh right right. Fly by night LCCs that put a choke hold on airlines throughout the world. Yeah, flying Wal-Marts... woohoo.  vomit  WN is an airline that just needs to stay it's little spot in the airline world and know it's role, in my opinion.
If at first you don't succeed, skydiving isn't for you.
 
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ptharris
Posts: 244
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RE: Southwest Jumping On Delta Assets

Wed Nov 22, 2006 4:29 am

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 39):
Ptharris' absolute statement that WN is not interested in code-share or alliance traffic is false

Now that's bold. Please, share with us the attempts WN has made with other carriers to codeshare. Or the attempts of other airlines to try and share business with WN. Last I knew when I was with another airline, incoming business (to other carriers) is at a high price, and outgoing (from WN) is rigged with strings attached. It makes business dealings with them uphill to say the least. But hey, it's business right?  box 
If at first you don't succeed, skydiving isn't for you.
 
DfwRevolution
Posts: 8590
Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:31 pm

RE: Southwest Jumping On Delta Assets

Wed Nov 22, 2006 4:32 am

Quoting Ptharris (Reply 43):
Are you serious? ATA? My God man, I was talking about a REAL airline. HAHA!! And lets see who is working with them.... umm... oh look... only Southwest.

If you want to belittle me, you'll have to try again. Better yet don't: grow up, or stop posting.

ATA is a legitimate code-share partner and the two airlines have profited from their reciprocal agreement.

Quoting Ptharris (Reply 43):
Hmm... market flexibility, yet again, non-existant

Disregarding the fact that "market flexibility" is a phrase you just pulled out of your ass, WN management has shown on countless occasions to have the flexibility and acumen to accommodate almost any situation.

Quoting Ptharris (Reply 43):
Fly by night LCCs that put a choke hold on airlines throughout the world

There's nothing "fly by night" about the most consistently profitable airline in the world. Nor have jetBlue, Ryanair, Easyjet, GOL, or any number of LCC been a detriment to the industry.

Perhaps you're unfamiliar with the "Southwest Effect," a phenomena observed in numerous markets. When a significant LCC is established at a given airport, ticket prices fall and enplanements rise for all carriers! You can't blame the LCCs for offering a desirable product while legacy carriers spent the 80s and 90s trying to hold post-deregulation networks together.

No one is making you fly Southwest, and your attitude is uncalled for. Stop being ignorant, or stop posting...
 
elmothehobo
Posts: 967
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RE: Southwest Jumping On Delta Assets

Wed Nov 22, 2006 4:34 am

Quoting Ptharris (Reply 43):
Fly by night LCCs that put a choke hold on airlines throughout the world.

... which for the most part have near perfect safety records, have been consistently profitable and higher customer satisfaction rates than their bloated and unprofitable competitiors?

Quoting Ptharris (Reply 43):
Are you serious? ATA? My God man, I was talking about a REAL airline. HAHA!! And lets see who is working with them.... umm... oh look... only Southwest. Hmm... market flexibility, yet again, non-existant. But nice try though.

You couldn't be farther from the truth. ATA is far more flexible than most other carriers in North America. Unlike carriers that depend entirely on scheduled commercial traffic, ATA gets something like half its revenue and an even greater percentage of its profit from AMC flights. So when commercial goes down the drain again, they can sit back and have the AMC traffic make up for the lost traffic. No matter how bad the economy, the troops need to travel.

And really, does anyone need to work with them? This whole LCC alliance thing is relatively new. Let's see how this works out.

Me thinks you aren't a big fan of change.
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: Southwest Jumping On Delta Assets

Wed Nov 22, 2006 4:35 am

Quoting Ptharris (Reply 44):
Now that's bold.

It's fact. Sometimes that hurts

Quoting Ptharris (Reply 44):
Please, share with us the attempts WN has made with other carriers to codeshare

They are code-sharing with TZ at this very moment.

Quoting Ptharris (Reply 44):
Or the attempts of other airlines to try and share business with WN

See: ATA

The code-share agreement was a condition requested by TZ during the investment reorganization WN made with the carrier in late-2004.
 
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ptharris
Posts: 244
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RE: Southwest Jumping On Delta Assets

Wed Nov 22, 2006 5:00 am

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 45):
If you want to belittle me, you'll have to try again. Better yet don't: grow up, or stop posting.

Sir, if you feel I was belittling you, please get ahold of yourself. Merely trying to illustrate a point that you obviously aren't going to listen to isn't an attempt to belittle you. It's clear you have strong feelings for Southwest and I certainly didn't mean to place those feelings in question.

It's obviously very personal for you, since you've sent me a private message with vulgarities and verbal attacks, so let's agree to disagree, shall we?

OH, one other thing I want to make clear, however... it seems that my comments earlier may have been misleading. I wasn't saying that Southwest was a fly by night operation. In no way have I said that Southwest's operational plans haven't worked. They have. However, it's a matter of opinion on my part that Southwest shouldn't be in the international market at all.
If at first you don't succeed, skydiving isn't for you.
 
rampart
Posts: 1798
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 5:58 am

RE: Southwest Jumping On Delta Assets

Wed Nov 22, 2006 5:00 am

Quoting Ptharris (Reply 43):
WN is an airline that just needs to stay it's little spot in the airline world and know it's role, in my opinion.

 Yeah sure What, are you some shipwrecked executive from Braniff 1972 and just washed onshore? WN carrying more passengers than any other US airline is lost on you? Or the successful North American carriers that mimic WN, adding to the LCC proportion that continues to mine away the market share from the legacies? Or the now vast empires of Ryan Air and EasyJet and similar LCCs in Europe?

It's the 21st Century, man, try to take part!

-Rampart