A330323X
Topic Author
Posts: 2666
Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2003 4:06 pm

Continental Dumps RegionsAir; PKB/CKB Want Change

Wed Nov 22, 2006 3:09 am

The only thing surprising about this is that Continental put their name on the planes in the first place.

http://www.mariettatimes.com/news/story/new44_1121200682139.asp

Quote:
The Mid-Ohio Regional Airport Authority voted Monday to take the next step to replace carrier RegionsAir.

Officials unanimously decided to ask the U.S. Department of Transportation to send out an emergency request for proposals to provide federally subsidized essential air service at the airport as soon as possible.

[...]

The decision to seek a new carrier was made because Continental announced a split with RegionsAir, citing reliability issues after repeated delays and cancellations. It also was announced last week that the company was up for sale, citing higher-than-anticipated aircraft maintenance costs and revenue shortfalls.

[...]

Continental has announced it will stop taking reservations, but will continue to allow people to schedule flights until a certain date, which has not been announced, Strock said.

See also this article.

More comments later.
I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
 
eraugrad02
Posts: 661
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2005 6:12 am

RE: Continental Dumps RegionsAir; PKB/CKB Want Change

Wed Nov 22, 2006 3:23 am

I posted this a few days ago which it mentions that in the article.

http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3104294/
Desmond MacRae in ILM
 
cle757
Posts: 798
Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2005 8:28 am

RE: Continental Dumps RegionsAir; PKB/CKB Want Change

Wed Nov 22, 2006 3:40 am

Maybe CommuteAir will step in.
Cleveland the best location in the Nation
 
masseybrown
Posts: 4444
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

RE: Continental Dumps RegionsAir; PKB/CKB Want Change

Wed Nov 22, 2006 4:14 am

It sounds as if the STL operation is organizationally and financially independent from the CLE operation. That's pretty fast footwork for a corporation that was already on the ropes a year ago. Some bankers must be pretty unhappy as this plays out.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 6118
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

RE: Continental Dumps RegionsAir; PKB/CKB Want Change

Wed Nov 22, 2006 4:25 am

They should try to get Mesaba Saab service to DTW under EAS service.

Perhaps some some of one-stop arrangement DTW-PKB-CKB-DTW twice daily could work.
 
kl662
Posts: 114
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 4:39 pm

RE: Continental Dumps RegionsAir; PKB/CKB Want Change

Wed Nov 22, 2006 4:55 am

Interesting. I've been flying into CKB through CLE every week for the past month or so; never had a problem. The RegionsAir crews couldn't be nicer, and every flight has been either early or on time.

By and large, it's a much better alternative than PIT, but getting to CLE from SAN is a little difficult. Had to route SAN-LAX-CLE-CKB -- Saabs on both ends!  Smile

(BTW, what's up with all the Independence Air planes at CKB? Are they just being used for parts?)
 
A330323X
Topic Author
Posts: 2666
Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2003 4:06 pm

Continental Dumps RegionsAir; PKB/CKB Want Change

Wed Nov 22, 2006 5:02 am

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 3):
It sounds as if the STL operation is organizationally and financially independent from the CLE operation. That's pretty fast footwork for a corporation that was already on the ropes a year ago.

Of course, you can't actually believe anything RegionsAir says, what with their recent history. After all, their entire business plan for the Saab operation was based on telling a bunch of outrageous lies to a slew of naive communities--PKB/CKB/MGW, BFD/JHW, LNS, BKW/BLF, DUJ, LWB--and thus get selected at enough of them to achieve critical mass. Unfortunately for them, even though the lies were working, the wheels were falling off the operation even faster. Take the number of Saabs in the fleet, for example. They now state they have three birds to move, when they've been swearing to anyone who'll listen for months that they had four planes, and they promised the DOT when trying to salvage the BFD/JHW contract that they had irrevocably committed to leasing further additional planes. The truth? Hell if I know.

And I wouldn't bet on that STL operation lasting for long. They're screwing that up as well. Take PAH. RegionsAir posted a 43% completion factor there in July. They cancelled 57% of their flights to PAH in July! I've never in my life seen a number anything like that. It was so bad, and in such egregious breach of their obligations, that the DOT notes "Although we understand some situations cannot be avoided, the number of cancellations RegionsAir had during the 90-day notice period is unacceptable. In fact, had Paducah been a subsidized community, the Department would likely have withheld subsidy payments to the carrier due to its poor performance. However, Paducah’s service is not subsidized and the carrier has already vacated the community. Nonetheless, we have forwarded this matter to the Department’s General Counsel for Aviation Enforcement and Proceedings for fiuther investigation. In addition, when selecting air carriers to provide subsidized EAS, the program’s governing statute requires that we consider the demonstrated reliability of applicants in providing scheduled air service." Again, the DOT uses stronger language with RegionsAir than they've ever used with other airlines, and implicitly threatens not to reselect them at STL EAS markets due to the PAH debacle. As I mentioned before, American Airlines had to put their reputation with the DOT on the line in sticking up for RegionsAir. It's only a matter of time IMO before RegionsAir pisses off AA by ruining its brand in small markets as it did to CO's. And not just PAH--look at other STL markets like IRK or UIN that are furious with RegionsAir's constant stream of cancellations and double-digit monthly cancellations.

Quoting DTW.SCE" class=quote target=_blank>PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 4):
They should try to get Mesaba Saab service to DTW under EAS service.

Perhaps some some of one-stop arrangement DTW-PKB-CKB-DTW twice daily could work.

Colgan will be the favorite to replace RegionsAir at the West Virginia communities, likely with US Airways Express service to a combination of PIT and DCA (yes, DCA), but possibly with United Express service to IAD. I don't expect Air Midwest to bid on any additional markets in the East anytime soon, as they're rather short on planes right now. I also don't think a Mesaba bid would be competitive if they chose to make one.

Also, PKB gets more traffic than the other two communities, and has traditionally had more stand-alone flights, with CKB/MGW generally sharing most of their flights.

Of course, historical traffic levels at all three communities have gone to hell since RegionsAir got involved. The decline at PKB in enplanements has cost it $850,000 in annual FAA grants. The decline at CKB in enplanements will likely cost it all of its scheduled air service within 6 years.
I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: Continental Dumps RegionsAir; PKB/CKB Want Change

Wed Nov 22, 2006 6:11 am

The irony is that in the last month, Regions has had pretty good reliability, actually. But the problem is they're reliable for a while, and then the a/c seem to fall apart again. A little over a month ago, Regions had an O-fer day out of CLE: every arrival and departarue was cancelled because all four a/c were out of service. That was sad.

Any chance a new carrier could run the route out of CLE?
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
A330323X
Topic Author
Posts: 2666
Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2003 4:06 pm

RE: Continental Dumps RegionsAir; PKB/CKB Want Change

Wed Nov 22, 2006 6:25 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 7):
Any chance a new carrier could run the route out of CLE?

CommutAir could certainly bid on the route if they wanted to, but they won't get it. Their 19-seat costs are not at all competitive. The only EAS routes they win are the ones where no other carriers bother to bid. They used to apply for more routes, but their costs were so out of line, they haven't been bothering as much lately, so I doubt they'll bid on this. I'm not sure what their Dash costs will be like, though.

CommutAir (or another Continental Connection operator) wouldn't get community support anyway, since the communities will certainly want to make a clean break away from CLE and the CO brand, to reinforce in the travelers' minds that there is a change in service to something more reliable.
I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: Continental Dumps RegionsAir; PKB/CKB Want Change

Wed Nov 22, 2006 6:32 am

Quoting A330323X (Reply 8):
CommutAir could certainly bid on the route if they wanted to, but they won't get it. Their 19-seat costs are not at all competitive.

But remember, Commutair is switching over to the Q200's next year, and could make a case that they are much more reliable and solid that anything Regions had, which is true.

Quoting A330323X (Reply 8):
CommutAir (or another Continental Connection operator) wouldn't get community support anyway, since the communities will certainly want to make a clean break away from CLE and the CO brand, to reinforce in the travelers' minds that there is a change in service to something more reliable.

Possible, but don't be surprised that CO makes a pitch to those cities that with a reliable carrier like Commutair, that CLE is still a good hub to help these markets grow a bit, especially with CO making plans for expansion out of CLE in '07 and '08.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
A330323X
Topic Author
Posts: 2666
Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2003 4:06 pm

RE: Continental Dumps RegionsAir; PKB/CKB Want Change

Wed Nov 22, 2006 6:42 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 9):
But remember, Commutair is switching over to the Q200's next year, and could make a case that they are much more reliable and solid that anything Regions had, which is true.

No one is arguing that CommutAir is reliable. But so is Colgan (and Air Midwest and Mesaba and so on). So it'll come down to cost. And CommutAir will be too expensive.

The last time CommutAir bid against Colgan for BFD/JHW, CommutAir's costs for the *Beech* were 60% higher than Colgan's costs for the *Saab*.

And again, I don't think CommutAir will bother to bid anyway.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 9):
Possible, but don't be surprised that CO makes a pitch to those cities that with a reliable carrier like Commutair, that CLE is still a good hub to help these markets grow a bit, especially with CO making plans for expansion out of CLE in '07 and '08.

Continental won't be making any pitch at all, as they couldn't care less which markets CommutAir is serving under their pro-rate agreement.

And all the communities would see anyway is that, in their minds, Continental and Cleveland was the combination that ruined their air service and enplanements. They won't be worried about specifics like the exact operator. Keep in mind that these are the same people after all that selected RegionsAir's original bid, which promised Delta Connection service to CVG. They just don't know any better. (That the DOT lets these communities make ignorant decisions like that is another matter...)
I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
 
AmtrakGuy
Posts: 372
Joined: Thu Sep 09, 1999 11:25 am

RE: Continental Dumps RegionsAir; PKB/CKB Want Change

Wed Nov 22, 2006 6:49 am

Quoting A330323X (Reply 10):
especially with CO making plans for expansion out of CLE in '07 and '08.

Refresh my mind....what's CO plans for CLE in '07 and '08?
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: Continental Dumps RegionsAir; PKB/CKB Want Change

Wed Nov 22, 2006 7:40 am

Quoting AmtrakGuy (Reply 11):
Refresh my mind....what's CO plans for CLE in '07 and '08?

-CO is adding two new banks of flights, slated for mid-February.

-Chataqua will be taking over some COEX flights out of CLE.

-Commutair will be taking posession of 37-seat Q-200's, and expanding their presence in CLE

-In '08, CO begins seasonal nonstop CLE-CDG service.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: Continental Dumps RegionsAir; PKB/CKB Want Change

Wed Nov 22, 2006 7:49 am

Quoting A330323X (Reply 8):

A quote from within the article linked to this thread:

"Earlier this week, Caldwell said Continental Connection officials told him they want to replace RegionsAir."

So, yes, Continental IS interested in continuing the service, despite your belief that they don't care. They do care, trust me.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
flyinryan99
Posts: 1428
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2001 6:54 am

RE: Continental Dumps RegionsAir; PKB/CKB Want Change

Wed Nov 22, 2006 8:55 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 12):
CO is adding two new banks of flights, slated for mid-February.

Do you happen to know what time those banks are going to be at? That will bring them to 6??
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: Continental Dumps RegionsAir; PKB/CKB Want Change

Wed Nov 22, 2006 9:01 am

Quoting Flyinryan99 (Reply 14):
Do you happen to know what time those banks are going to be at? That will bring them to 6??

10am and 2pm. And that will bring the total number of banks out of CLE to 9 banks, not 6. Banks will be, approximately at 9am, 10am, 1130am, 1pm, 215pm, 330pm, 5pm, 7pm, and 830pm.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
flyinryan99
Posts: 1428
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2001 6:54 am

RE: Continental Dumps RegionsAir; PKB/CKB Want Change

Wed Nov 22, 2006 9:16 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 15):
10am and 2pm. And that will bring the total number of banks out of CLE to 9 banks, not 6. Banks will be, approximately at 9am, 10am, 1130am, 1pm, 215pm, 330pm, 5pm, 7pm, and 830pm.

Thanks for the info. I couldn't remember. I do remember back when COEx was running the 1900s they had usually 4 daily flights to their stations like TOL, FNT, and FWA. Do you think they will return to that form also? I know some still only have 3 flights a day. Or will these banks be mainline banks? Thanks...
 
N766UA
Posts: 7843
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 1999 3:50 am

RE: Continental Dumps RegionsAir; PKB/CKB Want Change

Wed Nov 22, 2006 9:23 am

Wow.... who saw this coming....  sarcastic 
This Website Censors Me
 
FCYTravis
Posts: 1172
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2005 4:21 am

RE: Continental Dumps RegionsAir; PKB/CKB Want Change

Wed Nov 22, 2006 9:41 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 13):
So, yes, Continental IS interested in continuing the service, despite your belief that they don't care. They do care, trust me.

As mentioned, at this point I wouldn't believe Doug Caldwell if he told me the Earth was round.

Besides, COConx doesn't have an operator cheap enough to win the bid. Three small West Virginia EAS markets are not going to make or break the CLE hub.
USAir A321 service now departing for SFO with fuel stops in CAK, COS and RNO. Enjoy your flight.
 
masseybrown
Posts: 4444
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

RE: Continental Dumps RegionsAir; PKB/CKB Want Cha

Wed Nov 22, 2006 4:14 pm

Quoting FCYTravis (Reply 18):
Three small West Virginia EAS markets are not going to make or break the CLE hub.

Every merger thread on A.net assumes the CLE hub gets closed. CLE needs every flight and market they can get.  Wink

IIRC from looking at the numbers a while ago, PKB has more traffic than the other two combined and is about 100 mi closer to CLE than to Washington airports. Maybe CLE could try to keep PKB.
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: Continental Dumps RegionsAir; PKB/CKB Want Change

Thu Nov 23, 2006 2:26 am

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 19):
Every merger thread on A.net assumes the CLE hub gets closed. CLE needs every flight and market they can get.  Wink

Haha! Yes, that's true, I mean, we're closing next week, according to the armchair CEO's on here. Nevermind the planned flight EXPANSION for next year.

Either way, CO is never shy about going into markets. I do thnk CO Connection and CO will try and make arrangements to keep the flights here. If not, no, it's not going to kill the hub. I would imagine, perhaps, that maybe CO Connection might go back anyway in a few years once they're well into their CLE expansion.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
redngold
Posts: 6673
Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2000 12:26 pm

RE: Continental Dumps RegionsAir; PKB/CKB Want Cha

Thu Nov 23, 2006 3:55 am

Quoting A330323X (Reply 10):

No one is arguing that CommutAir is reliable. But so is Colgan (and Air Midwest and Mesaba and so on).

I don't know about you, but I know of one distinct instance in which Air Midwest was absolutely horrible - their last two years in RDG before USAirways Express service was terminated to that city. Service was so bad that USAirways began chartering a bus to carry passengers to PHL in place of the plane!

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 12):
Chataqua

Chautauqua
Up, up and away!
 
AmtrakGuy
Posts: 372
Joined: Thu Sep 09, 1999 11:25 am

RE: Continental Dumps RegionsAir; PKB/CKB Want Change

Thu Nov 23, 2006 4:31 am

Quoting Flyinryan99 (Reply 16):
Quoting Flyinryan99 (Reply 14):
Do you happen to know what time those banks are going to be at? That will bring them to 6??

10am and 2pm. And that will bring the total number of banks out of CLE to 9 banks, not 6. Banks will be, approximately at 9am, 10am, 1130am, 1pm, 215pm, 330pm, 5pm, 7pm, and 830pm.

And this will bring to what # of flights? Will I (and many others) have easy time to make connection flights to west coast from east coast (visa versa)? The last time I tried to use CLE, they weren't going where I want to go and/or the timing was not as good as I would like.

And do you know how many new flights will be mainline and RJ/Prop?
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: Continental Dumps RegionsAir; PKB/CKB Want Change

Thu Nov 23, 2006 4:43 am

Quoting AmtrakGuy (Reply 22):
And this will bring to what # of flights? Will I (and many others) have easy time to make connection flights to west coast from east coast (visa versa)?

The flights have not been loaded yet into the system. But that's the timetable-2nd to last week of February.

Quoting AmtrakGuy (Reply 22):
And do you know how many new flights will be mainline and RJ/Prop?

I have no information on the breakdown of what will be what with regards to the kind of equipment.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
A330323X
Topic Author
Posts: 2666
Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2003 4:06 pm

Continental Dumps RegionsAir; PKB/CKB Want Change

Thu Nov 23, 2006 5:49 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 13):
"Earlier this week, Caldwell said Continental Connection officials told him they want to replace RegionsAir."

And we're supposed to believe Caldwell now because he has such a great track record of telling the truth? Like when he told the communities in the first place that there service would be Delta Connection to CVG?

Quoting Redngold (Reply 21):
I don't know about you, but I know of one distinct instance in which Air Midwest was absolutely horrible - their last two years in RDG before USAirways Express service was terminated to that city.

I'll certainly admit that Air Midwest had their own bad service issues about 4-5 years ago, when their reliability was not as good as the other "reliable" EAS providers, and nowhere near what it is now that their service has improved dramatically.

But I'd also note that never was their reliability anywhere remotely near as bad as RegionsAir's is. I dare you to find *one* city that's happy with their RegionsAir service right now. I know the West Virginia folks sure wish they still had Air Midwest instead of RegionsAir.
I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
 
A330323X
Topic Author
Posts: 2666
Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2003 4:06 pm

Continental Dumps RegionsAir; PKB/CKB Want Change

Thu Nov 23, 2006 7:57 am

And PKB is the first one to officially make a move, with their letter requesting that the DOT issue an emergency RFP to replace RegionsAir.

Some highlights:

Quote:
The airport will lose its primary airport designation based on the 2006 enplanements which will jeopardize our capital improvement projects for 2008. We have suffered significant revenue losses for the year based on the unreliable air service.

Discussions with the incumbent carrier have given us no reason to foresee a turn-around in service in the near future. The airport is unable to sustain its backing of this carrier. We have shared this information with the airports at Morgantown and Clarksburg and believe their governing authorities have reached similar conclusions.

They also issue a table of enplanements, showing that PKB enplanements are down 66.98% year-to-date. Yes, that's right, RegionsAir chased away two-thirds of the customers.

They also include a table showing arrivals and departures, indicating that RegionsAir is still cancelling a number of flights way above what other carriers would find acceptable, despite their protestations about the service now being reliable.
I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: Continental Dumps RegionsAir; PKB/CKB Want Change

Thu Nov 23, 2006 8:07 am

Quoting A330323X (Reply 25):
They also include a table showing arrivals and departures, indicating that RegionsAir is still cancelling a number of flights way above what other carriers would find acceptable, despite their protestations about the service now being reliable.

Yes, they have, but I can tell you for a fact that in the last month, their reliability has gone way up, and they've cancelled very few flights. That's the irony of this.

However, RA has had spurts like this before, where all runs well for a while, and then for an extended period of time they cancel a lot of flights.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
cle757
Posts: 798
Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2005 8:28 am

RE: Continental Dumps RegionsAir; PKB/CKB Want Change

Thu Nov 23, 2006 8:34 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 12):
CO is adding two new banks of flights, slated for mid-February

If this was going to happen, new flights would already be in the schedule.
Cleveland the best location in the Nation
 
A330323X
Topic Author
Posts: 2666
Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2003 4:06 pm

RE: Continental Dumps RegionsAir; PKB/CKB Want Change

Thu Nov 23, 2006 8:35 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 26):
Yes, they have, but I can tell you for a fact that in the last month, their reliability has gone way up, and they've cancelled very few flights. That's the irony of this.

I have no doubt that their reliability has greatly improved. But it went from horrendous to merely extremely bad.

Think of it this way--if they only cancelled one flight every three days, that's still less than a 90% completion factor, which is awful. (And as I've noted, it's not just the West Virginia SF3 markets that are getting huge numbers of cancellations, either.)

And, of course, even if RegionsAir never cancelled another flight ever, it's too late. They still wouldn't be able to bring back the lost enplanements, many of whom simply will never fly RegionsAir again because they'll never trust them, and many of whom have unfortunately permanently changed their travel habits and will never again fly from the small WV airports regardless of carrier--it's the latter group that is why I continue to believe CKB will lose its air service even with a new carrier, because RegionsAir has irreparably damaged the market.

Enplanements dropping by 2/3 in one year, that's just unfathomable for that to happen to an airport, and I've had a dozen people tell me I was exaggerating when I've mentioned they were down that much before, that it just wasn't possible--but now there's proof in black and white. Ditto for the 43% completion factor over at PAH.
I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: Continental Dumps RegionsAir; PKB/CKB Want Change

Thu Nov 23, 2006 8:47 am

Quoting A330323X (Reply 28):
I have no doubt that their reliability has greatly improved. But it went from horrendous to merely extremely bad.

In their defense, the last month, they've been very good, not extremely bad. I can vouch for that.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
AmtrakGuy
Posts: 372
Joined: Thu Sep 09, 1999 11:25 am

RE: Continental Dumps RegionsAir; PKB/CKB Want Change

Thu Nov 23, 2006 9:46 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 23):
Quoting AmtrakGuy (Reply 22):
And this will bring to what # of flights? Will I (and many others) have easy time to make connection flights to west coast from east coast (visa versa)?

The flights have not been loaded yet into the system. But that's the timetable-2nd to last week of February.

Quoting AmtrakGuy (Reply 22):
And do you know how many new flights will be mainline and RJ/Prop?

I have no information on the breakdown of what will be what with regards to the kind of equipment.

Okay...how many flights are going in/out of CLE? and breakdown with mainline and RJ/Prop? this should give us ideas how much growth will happened.

Quoting CLE757 (Reply 27):
Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 12):
CO is adding two new banks of flights, slated for mid-February

If this was going to happen, new flights would already be in the schedule.

Thanks..hopefully someone can fill us in.
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: Continental Dumps RegionsAir; PKB/CKB Want Change

Thu Nov 23, 2006 10:20 am

Quoting CLE757 (Reply 27):
If this was going to happen, new flights would already be in the schedule.

Whatever. That's what I've heard, from multiple sources, in EIT and in management.

Oh...I forgot...management: they're those nasty liars whom you can't trust. I forgot. My bad, CLE757.

I've heard that and that we'll have bids on the floor that go into effect in both February and March. The February bid to cover increased seasonal service, and the March one to cover the new banks and new schedule.

Maybe you are right, but I'll stick with what I've heard until I hear otherwise, thank you.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
kcrwflyer
Posts: 2535
Joined: Tue May 18, 2004 11:57 am

RE: Continental Dumps RegionsAir; PKB/CKB Want Change

Thu Nov 23, 2006 11:18 am

Quoting DTW.SCE" class=quote target=_blank>PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 4):
They should try to get Mesaba Saab service to DTW under EAS service.

Perhaps some some of one-stop arrangement DTW-PKB-CKB-DTW twice daily could work.

Does XJ even have any EAS routes on this side of the country? I thought it was all Midwest stuff.

Quoting A330323X (Reply 6):
Colgan will be the favorite to replace RegionsAir at the West Virginia communities, likely with US Airways Express service to a combination of PIT and DCA (yes, DCA), but possibly with United Express service to IAD.

Does Colgan even have the planes to do that right now? I thought all aircraft were pretty fully utilized.

Why would EAS cities get use of DCA slots??
 
A330323X
Topic Author
Posts: 2666
Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2003 4:06 pm

RE: Continental Dumps RegionsAir; PKB/CKB Want Cha

Thu Nov 23, 2006 1:19 pm

Quoting KcrwFlyer (Reply 32):
Does XJ even have any EAS routes on this side of the country? I thought it was all Midwest stuff.

They've bid for a couple (including PKB as a matter of fact), but Mesaba usually isn't competitive with its bids in the East. With respect to the PKB bid, Mesaba wanted over $1.25 million for just 2x daily SF3 PKB-DTW, compared to RegionsAir's make-believe proposals wanting about $450,000 for 3x daily SF3 PKB-CVG or $1.2 million for 5x daily SF3 PKB-CVG, or Air Midwest's more relevant proposals for $500,000 for 4x daily BE1 PKB-PIT or $600,000 for 5x daily BE1 PKB-PIT. Clearly, Mesaba was not seriously considered by the DOT, and I see no reason why things would be different now.

They do serve one or two similar non-EAS markets, though, like LBE.

Quoting KcrwFlyer (Reply 32):
Does Colgan even have the planes to do that right now? I thought all aircraft were pretty fully utilized.

I'm sure they could scrape up a plane or two. While they are pretty well utilized, they've also been growing quite a good deal. As EAS service is stable revenue, I think they'd lease additional equipment for it if necessary upon being awarded the contract.

Quoting KcrwFlyer (Reply 32):
Why would EAS cities get use of DCA slots??

Since CKB/MGW have historically had DCA service, there are special slots set aside and allocated to them (and LWB) that are available to anyone who would like to resume service on the routes, subsidized or otherwise. (I'd note, though, that DCA service to either of the two cities [or anywhere else] would need to be on a 30-seat plane and not on a 19-seat plane, as the security regulations at DCA require a secure cockpit door and a flight attendant.)

[Edited 2006-11-23 05:21:18]
I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
 
kcrwflyer
Posts: 2535
Joined: Tue May 18, 2004 11:57 am

RE: Continental Dumps RegionsAir; PKB/CKB Want Change

Fri Nov 24, 2006 2:24 am

Quoting A330323X (Reply 33):
Since CKB/MGW have historically had DCA service, there are special slots set aside and allocated to them (and LWB) that are available to anyone who would like to resume service on the routes, subsidized or otherwise. (I'd note, though, that DCA service to either of the two cities [or anywhere else] would need to be on a 30-seat plane and not on a 19-seat plane, as the security regulations at DCA require a secure cockpit door and a flight attendant.)

Even though they can do DCA, I'm pretty sure IAD would be more successfull
 
A330323X
Topic Author
Posts: 2666
Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2003 4:06 pm

RE: Continental Dumps RegionsAir; PKB/CKB Want Cha

Fri Nov 24, 2006 3:28 am

Quoting KcrwFlyer (Reply 34):
Even though they can do DCA, I'm pretty sure IAD would be more successfull

No, DCA would be far more successful. They'll have a much better time drawing business travellers (and higher yields from those travellers). And the cities are already familiar with the US Airways Express brand, and with DCA service. And domestic connectivity on US at DCA is just as good as on UA at IAD.

Just look over at LWB--Air Midwest couldn't make LWB-IAD work on a Beech, while US has used 50-seat RJs out of LWB to DCA and LGA in the past few years.

The slot-controlled airports are that way for a reason, because people want to go there.

There might very well be other factors that lead Colgan to bid for IAD service instead of DCA service, but demand (and revenue) would not be one of them.
I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
 
SHUPirate1
Posts: 3428
Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2003 2:53 pm

RE: Continental Dumps RegionsAir; PKB/CKB Want Change

Fri Nov 24, 2006 4:26 am

Isn't there an FAA directive of some sort (or something from the alphabet quacks) banning nineteen-seat aircraft from Washington-National?
Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
 
A330323X
Topic Author
Posts: 2666
Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2003 4:06 pm

RE: Continental Dumps RegionsAir; PKB/CKB Want Change

Fri Nov 24, 2006 4:33 am

Quoting SHUPirate1 (Reply 36):
Isn't there an FAA directive of some sort (or something from the alphabet quacks) banning nineteen-seat aircraft from Washington-National?

Didn't I already say that?  Smile

Quoting A330323X (Reply 33):
(I'd note, though, that DCA service to either of the two cities [or anywhere else] would need to be on a 30-seat plane and not on a 19-seat plane, as the security regulations at DCA require a secure cockpit door and a flight attendant.)

It wouldn't pose a problem for Colgan, who would operate the Saab 340B on the route under the DCA scenario.
I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
 
atct
Posts: 2472
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2001 6:42 am

RE: Continental Dumps RegionsAir; PKB/CKB Want Change

Fri Nov 24, 2006 5:16 am

Yea who saw this coming?

Im glad this airline is going kaput. As a former employee I can say it is 10 times worse than it appears. The People (non-management) are great, but the people who run the place are plain lunatics. Doug Caldwell is an incompetent fool, HR is in serious dis-array. (Ive been gone for 3 months and they still havent gotten my paperwork right from when I worked there).

Note: the Crews are great, as are the lower personel (station people etc.). Another carrier needs to come along and buy Regex's assests so at least the good working employee wont be out of a job when they finaly go kaput. Its no longer a question of if, but when regex will bite the dust.


ATCT
Trikes are for kids!
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: Continental Dumps RegionsAir; PKB/CKB Want Change

Fri Nov 24, 2006 5:37 am

A bit of an update, AmtrakGuy, on the status of what I told you about the new banks I mentioned. Was talking to one of our ATO management people, and he told me they'll find out next week if the new 10am and 2pm banks will start in February or not. Those banks WILL start in 2007, but the date of the start isn't known yet. Mid-February was the original timeframe, but it still might be moved back.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
A330323X
Topic Author
Posts: 2666
Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2003 4:06 pm

RE: Continental Dumps RegionsAir; PKB/CKB Want Change

Fri Nov 24, 2006 6:06 am

Quoting ATCT (Reply 38):
Note: the Crews are great, as are the lower personel (station people etc.). Another carrier needs to come along and buy Regex's assests so at least the good working employee wont be out of a job when they finaly go kaput. Its no longer a question of if, but when regex will bite the dust.

I can't comment on the flight crews, who would obviously be likely to go along with the planes if the fleet is sold, but otherwise might be out of luck--are the RegionsAir pilots unionized? If yes, they probably have fragmentation rights.

But as for the ground crews in the outstations, even if the company is not sold, and just loses the EAS contracts at various cities, most if not all EAS providers (certainly Air Midwest, Colgan, Great Lakes) will give a very high priority to hiring the previous airline's employees when they are transitioning into a new EAS market.
I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
 
atct
Posts: 2472
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2001 6:42 am

RE: Continental Dumps RegionsAir; PKB/CKB Want Change

Fri Nov 24, 2006 9:34 am

The pilots are unionized, though its not a strong one. (I believe its Teamsters). The F/a's are not unionized.


ATCT
Trikes are for kids!
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: Continental Dumps RegionsAir; PKB/CKB Want Change

Fri Nov 24, 2006 9:44 am

Quoting A330323X (Reply 35):
And domestic connectivity on US at DCA is just as good as on UA at IAD.

*slap*

NS
 
kcrwflyer
Posts: 2535
Joined: Tue May 18, 2004 11:57 am

RE: Continental Dumps RegionsAir; PKB/CKB Want Change

Sat Nov 25, 2006 1:47 am

Quoting A330323X (Reply 35):
Just look over at LWB--Air Midwest couldn't make LWB-IAD work on a Beech, while US has used 50-seat RJs out of LWB to DCA and LGA in the past few years.

Anything you see with 50 seats and jet engines in LWB was paid for by the Greenbrier. Thats not demand my friend. Those flights are far from full.

Quoting A330323X (Reply 35):
There might very well be other factors that lead Colgan to bid for IAD service instead of DCA service, but demand (and revenue) would not be one of them.

Interesting you say that. Colgans loads to IAD from CRW are much better than those from DCA, with nearly identical pricing.
 
A330323X
Topic Author
Posts: 2666
Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2003 4:06 pm

Continental Dumps RegionsAir; PKB/CKB Want Change

Sat Nov 25, 2006 4:21 am

Quoting KcrwFlyer (Reply 43):
Anything you see with 50 seats and jet engines in LWB was paid for by the Greenbrier. Thats not demand my friend. Those flights are far from full.

The Greenbrier subsidizes the flights, but certainly does not pay for them. With regards to the US flights in particular, the Greenbrier also does not tell US where to fly them. US picks the destinations it thinks will be most successful, in this case the premium airports.

I'd also note, yet again, that loads are not an indication of much of anything. The yields on those LGA-LWB flights are outrageously good.

Quoting KcrwFlyer (Reply 43):
Interesting you say that. Colgans loads to IAD from CRW are much better than those from DCA, with nearly identical pricing.

You can't compare CRW to the situation in MGW/CKB. At CRW, they have far superior connecting options on US Airways Express via CLT and PHL, so the DCA flights are almost all O&D passengers. This would not be the case at MGW/CKB--since the flights would be the only options at those cities, they would carry both O&D passengers and connecting passengers. And you have the same issue with the United Express CRW-IAD flights. IAD is the only option to carry United passengers for East Coast connections, so those flights have both O&D passengers and connecting passengers. Again, you're confusing loads and yields. I have no doubt that the UAX flights to IAD have stronger loads than the USX flights to DCA, but I also have no doubt that the USX flights to DCA have stronger yields and more O&D pax--US gets an average fare of $263.31 *each way* on DCA-CRW, which is an astonomical yield of over $1 a mile! With yields like that, who cares about connecting pax or mediocre loads? And since US gets over 80% of the market share, it's clear that people would rather pay the premium to fly into DCA, and that UA is unable to attract O&D pax. (That's not necessarily a bad thing--I'm sure Colgan's UAX flights do fine with all connecting pax but higher load factors.) And again, the situation wouldn't be similar at MGW/CKB, since those pax would not have several options from one carrier, let alone multiple carriers, so both O&D pax and connecting pax will be on whatever option is available.
I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
 
A330323X
Topic Author
Posts: 2666
Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2003 4:06 pm

RE: Continental Dumps RegionsAir; PKB/CKB Want Change

Wed Nov 29, 2006 5:41 am

And now it's CKB's turn to formally ask the DOT to issue an emergency RFP.

Some highlights:

Quote:
The Benedum Airport Authority unanimously voted on November 22, 2006 to petition the Department of Transportation (DOT) for an Emergency Request for Proposal (RFP) be issued to obtain a replacement Air Carrier for Clarksburg/Fairmont, West Virginia (CKB).

The present carrier, Regions Air, was selected to fulfill this need on September 9, 2005. Scheduled service did not begin until May 2006 with a limited schedule (2 flights) daily. Finally, Regions attained the level of service identified by the DOT order the following month of 3 weekday round trips.

From the inception of this service operational problems (reliability) have existed
which eroded the traveling public’s confidence. Frequent cancellations and delays caused major interruptions in passenger schedules to the point that few, if any, local citizens still consider the scheduled service at Clarksburg a viable consideration for the travel plans. (Please note the attached accounting of cancelled and delayed flights).

Continental Airlines, Regions’ Code Sharing partner has pulled their agreement
which further isolates our community and the airline serving it. Continental was very reluctant to permit advertising of this service due to the negative impact Regions’ reliability problems would have on their name as a Code Sharing Partner.

MGW is still taking their good old time, assuming that they too are unhappy with their air service. (How could they not be?!)

And, of course, the DOT continues fiddling while West Virginia burns.
I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
 
nkops
Posts: 2159
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 10:09 am

RE: Continental Dumps RegionsAir; PKB/CKB Want Change

Wed Nov 29, 2006 5:53 am

Quoting KcrwFlyer (Reply 43):
Anything you see with 50 seats and jet engines in LWB was paid for by the Greenbrier. Thats not demand my friend. Those flights are far from full.

I remember when US was doing the 737-200 between LWB-LGA... the most I ever saw on there was about 50 pax, but the yield was extremely high I believe.
:evil:
 
A330323X
Topic Author
Posts: 2666
Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2003 4:06 pm

RE: Continental Dumps RegionsAir; PKB/CKB Want Change

Fri Dec 08, 2006 7:34 am

And MGW makes all three of them.

http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/pdf99/432424_web.pdf

Quote:
The purpose of this letter is to inform your office of the City of Morgantown’s dissatisfaction with the current commercial air service provided by RegionsAir, Inc. at the Morgantown Municipal Airport (MGW). RegionsAir, operating as “Continental Connection”, has proven to be unreliable since the service transition beginning with the “interim service” from May 2006 to July and continued on through the full-schedule which commenced on July 15, 2006 to the present. Numerous situations, in regard to cancellations and delays, has resulted in customer/patron discontent which has been expressed on many occasions through personal conversation and telephonic/electronic means.

Due to the recent marketing campaign cancellation by Continental Airlines and the uncertainty of Continental’s intent to sustain their endorsement of the Continental Connection service, MGW and the City of Morgantown respectively requests that your office issue an RFP at the earliest date to minimize possible disruption to commercial air service for Morgantown and the surrounding communities.

RegionsAir’s “reliability data” is provided in the attached enclosures for the periods of May through November, 2006. As an overview of performance, this data reflects a scheduled completion factor percentage (CF%) of 86.11 % over a seven month period.

The overly optimistic local newspaper seems to think an Emergency RFP will be sent as soon as Friday (which is still months too late). It would be the first time in recent memory that the DOT has taken such a drastic move. If the RFP is indeed issued tomorrow, and only allowed 2 weeks for proposals (instead of 30 days), and only 2 weeks for comments (instead of 3+ weeks), and the DOT made their decision in record time, then a carrier would be selected around the end of January. I think that is too optimistic a timetable, but hopefully I'll be wrong. And that's just for carrier selection and doesn't take into account the transition period before the new carrier begins service.
I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.