unitedMSY
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2 New Airlines To Enter Gulfport/Biloxi Market

Wed Nov 22, 2006 11:48 am

I was down at GPT today, and from what I have been told by Airport people, 2 new airlines are slated to enter this market soon. We are currently served by:

AirTran (ATL, FLL, TPA)
American Eagle (DFW)
Northwest (MEM)
Delta (ATL, MCO)
Continental (IAH)

My guess is the other 2 would be USAirways and United, because Southwest is big in MSY, and jetBlue is big there as well. Seems logical to have United in here especially, with all the better connection options to the Midwest via ORD (Something DL cannot provide too well through ATL). I hope for United, I think they could do well here just like in MSY, granted we would be a smaller market for them here. I currently drive to MSY for UA flights to ORD, I refuse to use ATL to get to the 3rd largest and probaly finest city in the US. USAirways would do good too, although Delta already provides the Northeast connections. With our large Asian population, it would be a benefit to connect to ORD as United is the ONLY U.S. airline to serve Vietnam. I am really pulling for UA in GPT, I know its possible. GPT is terribly underserved, and when new service is announced, it's "Big Comfy MD-88's to Atlanta!" not "UA adds 2 dailies to ORD" or "USAirways adds 2 CLT's", let's get some real news around here.....the terminal expansion is going ok, so it will be ready soon.
 
Falcon Flyer
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RE: 2 New Airlines To Enter Gulfport/Biloxi Market

Wed Nov 22, 2006 12:44 pm

Could one of them be Allegiant ? Maybe start a small scale operation like it has at Laughlin ?
My definition of cool ? Not trying so hard to be cool.
 
United777atGU
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RE: 2 New Airlines To Enter Gulfport/Biloxi Market

Wed Nov 22, 2006 2:00 pm

I hope it is UA too, since they just announced service to Huntsville, Alabama recently. They also have 3 daily non-stops to IAD from MSY, all of which are now mainline (the newest / third addition was express turned mainline during the fall....but what am I saying, you already know all this stuff!!). It'd be nice to see United down there and give people more options...
I hope for the best.
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F9Animal
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RE: 2 New Airlines To Enter Gulfport/Biloxi Market

Wed Nov 22, 2006 2:13 pm

My vote goes to Allegiant. The market would be a good fit for them.
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N1120A
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RE: 2 New Airlines To Enter Gulfport/Biloxi Market

Wed Nov 22, 2006 2:20 pm

Quoting UnitedMSY (Thread starter):
MSY, and jetBlue is big there as well.

Um, jetBlue only has 2 flights a day to New Orleans. I really don't know how that can be considered "big"

Quoting UnitedMSY (Thread starter):
With our large Asian population, it would be a benefit to connect to ORD as United is the ONLY U.S. airline to serve Vietnam.

And that service originates in SFO. It would make more sense for United to restore their MSY-SFO flight, which is the last remaining hub they need to restore.

Quoting Falcon flyer (Reply 1):

Could one of them be Allegiant ? Maybe start a small scale operation like it has at Laughlin ?

I think GPT probably already has too much competition for G4, including an LCC presence with FL. Further, MSY is so close that they are working against even more. I would see G4 in MOB or PNS before GPT.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
TrijetsRMissed
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RE: 2 New Airlines To Enter Gulfport/Biloxi Market

Wed Nov 22, 2006 2:28 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 4):
Quoting Falcon flyer (Reply 1):

Could one of them be Allegiant ? Maybe start a small scale operation like it has at Laughlin ?

I think GPT probably already has too much competition for G4, including an LCC presence with FL. Further, MSY is so close that they are working against even more. I would see G4 in MOB or PNS before GPT.

Well one thing is certain, G4 will likely expand in some form as the AS MD-83's are delivered, whether it be to the routes you listed or others.
There's nothing quite like a trijet.
 
FATFlyer
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RE: 2 New Airlines To Enter Gulfport/Biloxi Market

Wed Nov 22, 2006 2:54 pm

A few non-stops from Allegiant to some new markets might be possible.

But remember that the Laughlin operation is actually a charter service for Harrahs. So IF it was Allegiant you could only be looking at flights that go once a day to bring gamblers into the Grand Biloxi. That would not benefit the area much.

Would they start a small operation like at PIE to smaller cities for vacationers? I don't know, I'd have my doubts about that right now. But Allegiant has been making interesting moves lately.

Besides the ones mentioned there are a number of other possibles to ponder. An ExpressJet focus city? One of the new announced airlines like SkyValue?
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
MAH4546
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RE: 2 New Airlines To Enter Gulfport/Biloxi Market

Wed Nov 22, 2006 3:02 pm

Quoting UnitedMSY (Thread starter):
Delta (ATL, MCO)

MCO service ended, again, two months ago.
a.
 
unitedMSY
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RE: 2 New Airlines To Enter Gulfport/Biloxi Market

Wed Nov 22, 2006 3:58 pm

Oh yeah, I hope MSY gets UA back to SFO as well. It was insane for them to fly RJ's from MSY to OKC and STL, only to cancel the flight because they had no passengers booked. I got off the plane one time in MSY, and they had TWO pax going to STL. Unacceptable! They filled the SFO flights from what I have been told, so I hope they restore them ASAP. I still think GPT could support UAX, I have a feeling it will be UAX. Allegiant, we dont need them. We are flooded with service to Florida as it stands, we need an airline that can carry both business (post hurricane biz is strong) and tourism (the casinos) to GPT.
 
unitedMSY
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RE: 2 New Airlines To Enter Gulfport/Biloxi Market

Wed Nov 22, 2006 4:07 pm

That was mighty stupid to pull GPT-MCO, those flights usually went out pretty full. Dont expect to see G4 in MOB, that place is getting screwed royally. With PNS on the right, and GPT on the left, they have taken the brunt of the storm. They continue to loose traffic daily, and their fares are soaring. GPT picks up a ton of their traffic, as well as PNS, and occasionally MSY. I have doubts to MOB, especially after DL has raped them of most of their service (added more flights to GPT, MSY, and PNS). Expect G4 in GPT or MSY before MOB.
 
FATFlyer
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RE: 2 New Airlines To Enter Gulfport/Biloxi Market

Wed Nov 22, 2006 4:12 pm

Allegiant at MSY is very unlikely. It doesn't fit their model since MSY already has flights to LAS, TPA and Orlando. And I don't see a new focus city at MSY, although more are coming.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
MAH4546
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RE: 2 New Airlines To Enter Gulfport/Biloxi Market

Wed Nov 22, 2006 5:02 pm

Quoting UnitedMSY (Reply 9):
That was mighty stupid to pull GPT-MCO, those flights usually went out pretty full.

Full or not, they obviously did not make money, so it was not stupid.
a.
 
southsky
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RE: 2 New Airlines To Enter Gulfport/Biloxi Market

Thu Nov 23, 2006 2:27 am

Quoting UnitedMSY (Reply 9):
Expect G4 in GPT or MSY before MOB.

The lack of LCC service and service in general would put MOB above GPT in expansion order in my book. GPT already has Air Tran going to three destinations and MOB has zero LCCs. In fact, if G4 can get to LAS without any weight (etc) restrictions from MOB, I think you would definitely see daily flights not long after service commencement.
 
PVD757
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RE: 2 New Airlines To Enter Gulfport/Biloxi Market

Thu Nov 23, 2006 2:34 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 11):
Full or not, they obviously did not make money

there hasn't been a huge list of routes that they HAVE made money on the last couple years...
 
MSYtristar
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RE: 2 New Airlines To Enter Gulfport/Biloxi Market

Thu Nov 23, 2006 3:14 am

I can see United Express and US Airways Express RJ's flying into GPT. I think GPT-CLT/ORD could work.

Allegiant...that's an interesting one...GPT-LAS anyone? Maybe twice weekly, service connecting two major casino meccas in the U.S. I don't think you'll see GPT-SFB...way too thin of a market...if DL couldn't make GPT-MCO work, there's no way Allegiant could fill an MD-80.

As a side note, The entire Gulf Coast region is in the midst of a tremendous building spree currently....lots of new economic development all the way from New Orleans through Gulfport/Biloxi and on to Mobile....the airlines will slowly get used to this idea and add more service accordingly.
 
AirCop
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RE: 2 New Airlines To Enter Gulfport/Biloxi Market

Thu Nov 23, 2006 3:29 am

How about one of these new scheduled charters companies such as Skyvalue (?) from Gary, or something similar.
 
N1120A
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RE: 2 New Airlines To Enter Gulfport/Biloxi Market

Thu Nov 23, 2006 3:39 am

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 14):
Allegiant...that's an interesting one...GPT-LAS anyone? Maybe twice weekly, service connecting two major casino meccas in the U.S.

If that could make money, someone would have started ACY-LAS a long time ago. Really, both airports are too centered around the D end of O&D.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
unitedMSY
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RE: 2 New Airlines To Enter Gulfport/Biloxi Market

Thu Nov 23, 2006 4:16 am

Actually GPT-SFB was a rolling success with Southeast DC-9 charters in 2000. Southeast went belly up, and the route was scrapped. Dont count on Allegiant in MOB, seriously. MOB already had their chance with Valujet, Airtran, United, and so forth....and all those carriers left on the basis that "Delta drove us out". Delta dont control anything in GPT thankfully, as AirTran is mutilating their loads, so that is good for the competition, which would allow USAir and United to enter the market. Delta cant even fill an MD-88 to half capacity on a normal basis here, DL is just sending them in as a "protection" from AirTran. So look for more expansions here in GPT, and MSY, as Delta looses its "southern grip" and more airlines, like MSYtristar said, begin to roll in.
 
southsky
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RE: 2 New Airlines To Enter Gulfport/Biloxi Market

Thu Nov 23, 2006 6:11 am

Quoting UnitedMSY (Reply 17):
MOB already had their chance with Valujet, Airtran, United, and so forth....and all those carriers left on the basis that "Delta drove us out"

When Sun Country ran scheduled "charters" to MSP from MOB one and two year(s) ago they experienced like 97% loads. The reason: the airline used MOB's budding cruise industry and sent down newer planes (738's) and travelers responded. I think G4 can use the same formula, but in reverse. If G4 comes along I believe the planes will fill up. If an airline will give the market a chance with service that compares to DL out of MOB (mainline - so most likely an LCC) they will do well.

UA's service died because of 9-11 along with their money troubles. If I remember correctly, they had 70-80 LFs - nothing spectacular - but not bad at all.
 
srbmod
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RE: 2 New Airlines To Enter Gulfport/Biloxi Market

Thu Nov 23, 2006 6:26 am

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 14):
Allegiant...that's an interesting one...GPT-LAS anyone? Maybe twice weekly, service connecting two major casino meccas in the U.S

Not bloody likely. The only folks that probably fly between these two cities use their company's private jets.

Allegiant into GPT is an interesting thought though. I'm sure there are some markets that could support several times a week service into the city. I could also see them potentially adding service into UTA since Pan Am Clipper Connection bailed on their UTA-ATL service last month. Allegiant's dealings with Harrah's and some of the other casino companies could potentially make one of both of those cities happen.

As for the other airline, I would go with either US or UA.
 
Zone1
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RE: 2 New Airlines To Enter Gulfport/Biloxi Market

Thu Nov 23, 2006 6:52 am

Quoting UnitedMSY (Reply 17):
Dont count on Allegiant in MOB, seriously. MOB already had their chance with Valujet, Airtran, United, and so forth....and all those carriers left on the basis that "Delta drove us out".

One thing is very different these days in MOB, though. DL only controls about 45% of the market; down from like 70% a couple of years ago. DL has cut service to MOB drastically in the last year and a half. Everyone has picked up DL's market share. However, with the cut in seats, fares have skyrocketed. Eventually someone will call DL's bluff in MOB and the new entrant could do well. I think UA could have a chance in MOB now.

For GPT I really don't see two Star Alliance carriers starting service at the same time. It would be great if United started service but I think US will be one of them. For the other airline, take your pick of the smaller LCC's. There are plenty of other cities in the southeast that UA would probably serve over GPT.

[Edited 2006-11-22 22:55:59]
/// U N I T E D
 
Falcon Flyer
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RE: 2 New Airlines To Enter Gulfport/Biloxi Market

Thu Nov 23, 2006 8:23 am

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 14):
I don't think you'll see GPT-SFB...way too thin of a market



Quoting UnitedMSY (Reply 17):
Actually GPT-SFB was a rolling success with Southeast DC-9 charters in 2000.

GPT-SFB may not be as thin a market as you might think. In addition to the Southeast charters operated in 2000, SFB was one of the destinations served by the RenoAir Gulf Coast Flyer operation. With Allegiants penchant for once and twice weekly frequencies, they might be the carrier to finally make it work.
My definition of cool ? Not trying so hard to be cool.
 
FlyPNS1
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RE: 2 New Airlines To Enter Gulfport/Biloxi Market

Thu Nov 23, 2006 10:58 am

Quoting Southsky (Reply 12):
In fact, if G4 can get to LAS without any weight (etc) restrictions from MOB, I think you would definitely see daily flights not long after service commencement.

Why fly all the way to LAS for a casinos when you have (or will have) casinos just down the road in Gulfport/Biloxi. Once they are fully up to speed, the Mississippi Gulf Coast will have more than 10 full service casinos....that kills off part of the demand for LAS service.

I could see GPT-CLT service on US or maybe GPT-IAD on UA. ORD is tougher because with slot restrictions, its hard for AA/UA to add flights without dropping flights elsewhere.
 
srbmod
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RE: 2 New Airlines To Enter Gulfport/Biloxi Market

Thu Nov 23, 2006 11:22 am

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 22):
Why fly all the way to LAS for a casinos when you have (or will have) casinos just down the road in Gulfport/Biloxi. Once they are fully up to speed, the Mississippi Gulf Coast will have more than 10 full service casinos....that kills off part of the demand for LAS service.

Boils down to a matter of preference. While the casinos in Mississippi (Both Gulf Coast and Tunica) are less than a half day's drive for a large part of the southern US (and within the drive vs. fly threshold for many), some would rather spend the same amount of time (or less) to fly to Las Vegas. Myself, I'd rather fly to Las Vegas than drive to Biloxi.

Then you have folks who may make multiple trips to the Gulf Coast casinos (or up to Tunica) but take a trip or two to Las Vegas. Those multiple trips to a casino's property in Mississippi may fund a trip to Las Vegas.
 
GentFromAlaska
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RE: 2 New Airlines To Enter Gulfport/Biloxi Market

Thu Nov 23, 2006 11:50 am

My vote goes to F9. It was discussed the Denver based carrier might be looking at Baton Rouge. GPT seem a better choice. If memory serves me GPT is about seventy miles from NOLA.
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
 
FATFlyer
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RE: 2 New Airlines To Enter Gulfport/Biloxi Market

Thu Nov 23, 2006 12:09 pm

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 22):
Why fly all the way to LAS for a casinos when you have (or will have) casinos just down the road in Gulfport/Biloxi. Once they are fully up to speed, the Mississippi Gulf Coast will have more than 10 full service casinos....that kills off part of the demand for LAS service.

Actually not, the more comfortable people are with gambling the more they go gambling and the more they go to Vegas. Nearly 2/3s of the Vegas visitors say they will return even with gambling opening closer to home.

Vegas is like the big dog that people go to see. And Vegas is more than casinos, the entertainment and dining now dwarfs nearly everywhere else in the country.

As an example, we have 5 Indian casinos within a one hour drive of Fresno plus several poker club casinos. Something like 8,000 slots and 200 table games in the area now. Since they've opened over the last 10-12 years or so flights from FAT to LAS have gone from about 100 seats a day to about 400 average seats a day now.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
unitedMSY
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RE: 2 New Airlines To Enter Gulfport/Biloxi Market

Thu Nov 23, 2006 1:35 pm

Yeah I would look for GPT-IAD first, before ORD on UAX. I still support it, if UAX entered GPT, and I would make a double commute via IAD to ORD to support (Yes, I am biased about United  Smile ) and I would encourage the flying public to use the service.
 
MSYtristar
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RE: 2 New Airlines To Enter Gulfport/Biloxi Market

Thu Nov 23, 2006 1:41 pm

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 24):
My vote goes to F9. It was discussed the Denver based carrier might be looking at Baton Rouge. GPT seem a better choice. If memory serves me GPT is about seventy miles from NOLA.

I don't think you'd see F9 going to GPT, nor do I think DEN-BTR is a great idea. Now I could maayyybee see UA fly DEN-GPT down the road...but I think they'd do ORD-GPT first, no questions asked.

GPT/Biloxi is popular enough for the people living with a few hours drive, as well as nearbye short range air markets like ATL/TPA/MEM, but you can't compare it to Vegas. I know they try to promote their beaches as well, but if you've ever seen the Gulf water in Gulfport, you wouldn't want to take a step in it. It has that nice brown color too it year-round.
 
unitedMSY
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RE: 2 New Airlines To Enter Gulfport/Biloxi Market

Thu Nov 23, 2006 1:52 pm

Oh the water here is nasty, it looks like someone used the bathroom in it. We drive to Pensacola if we want to go swimming. I would bathe in Lake P. in NOLA before swimming in our nasty waters....
 
MSYtristar
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RE: 2 New Airlines To Enter Gulfport/Biloxi Market

Thu Nov 23, 2006 1:57 pm

Quoting UnitedMSY (Reply 28):
I would bathe in Lake P. in NOLA before swimming in our nasty waters

Before Katrina I used to go out on my friends boat to go tubing in Lake P...never really a bad experience. And it's kind of cool that you could be seven miles from land and still walk in the lake. I used to venture out in the water in Biloxi when I was a kid, but that's before I knew any better. Now, you have to go to PNS at a minimum before you get those nice blue waves.
 
MAH4546
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RE: 2 New Airlines To Enter Gulfport/Biloxi Market

Thu Nov 23, 2006 2:08 pm

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 27):
GPT/Biloxi is popular enough for the people living with a few hours drive, as well as nearbye short range air markets like ATL/TPA/MEM, but you can't compare it to Vegas.

Very regional. However, oddly enough, Las Vegas is one of their top ten O&D markets, probably lot's of casino business traffic.

1) Atlanta 232
2) Tampa 153
3) Miami/Lauderdale 149
4) DC/Baltimore 103
5) Houston 88
6) New York City 53
7) Chicago 47
8) Philadelphia 44
9) Las Vegas 41
10) Dallas 38
a.
 
dsuairptman
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RE: 2 New Airlines To Enter Gulfport/Biloxi Market

Thu Nov 23, 2006 3:29 pm

Ironic that I just flew through GPT yesterday.

The market diffently can support additional growth, however I think it will be Summer 2007 before any new carriers open routes. That is the planned completion date for the terminal expansion and right now the building can't really handle any more than it holds right now.

Once complete the airport will bear 8 gates and an extended ramp for hard standing planes, this would give room for up to 12 planes to be parked at a time.

On future services, the following are all possible (and some will happen):

FL: The long awaited return of the ATL RON flt. (This time permentaly)
MCO may be in the cards as well, but not before ATL expansion

DL: Following the ATL trend, expect a mainline RON flt. on the MD80 or 738
The MCO n/s will resume when DLX has aircraft availability.
Conversion of more DLX to 70 seaters.

CO: More flight upgrades to 737. EWR n/s will happen, it is just a matter of
time

AA: Intially will take GPT-DFW up to 4x dly. Will add ORD n/s and pherhaps MIA down the line. Mainline to DFW and ORD not out of the realm of possibility

UA: Could easily see 2x dly to ORD and 1X dly to IAD for starters. ORD increasing to 3x dly. ORD flts on E170/CR7s. IAD on CRJ200/700.

US: Carrier is meant for GPT. W/ there hubs and focus citites and GPT draw to those markets it would work well. N/S to CLT on larger CRJS w/ one going mainline possible. CLT has the market for Coast tourisim as proved by the tourist operators that sold success with Southeast charter flights. Even though that was a junket, the demand had to be there for it to happen. With US you also have connections and a convient alternate to ATL.

N/S to PHL would fit well, nice market for tourisim tavel and int'l conx.

N/S to DCA, this would be a profit king. The route would have plenty of gov't travellers clamoring for it both ways, plus the DC area is another area cited for Coast bound tourist

NW: The big loser. With N/S to IAH/ATL/CLT/DFW the demand for MEM would quickly be absorbed by larger planes going to larger hubs. N/S on Airways to PHL would cut into DTW int'l traffic and if CO launched GPT-CLE or DLX launched GPT-CVG, it would pretty much stamp out N/S to DTW
NW would find its own riches is doing what it does best (besides screwing employees) and take advantage of the MSP hub to launch 2x dly GPT-MSP on the 320, providing n/s links to an area also proven in providing Coast toursit traffic as well as conx to the Mid West, Pacific Northwest and Western Canada.
GEAUX SAINTS!
 
GentFromAlaska
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RE: 2 New Airlines To Enter Gulfport/Biloxi Market

Thu Nov 23, 2006 4:24 pm

Quoting Dsuairptman (Reply 31):
Once complete the airport will bear 8 gates and an extended ramp for hard standing planes, this would give room for up to 12 planes to be parked at a time

Geeze twelve airframes at a time. I remember the days in 1982 when Republic was the only carrier that served GPT. GPT-MOB-ATL. If you were traveling beyond ATL you had to change planes. It made for a long ride to BNA.
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
 
dsuairptman
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RE: 2 New Airlines To Enter Gulfport/Biloxi Market

Thu Nov 23, 2006 5:15 pm

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 32):
Geeze twelve airframes at a time. I remember the days in 1982 when Republic was the only carrier that served GPT. GPT-MOB-ATL. If you were traveling beyond ATL you had to change planes. It made for a long ride to BNA.

Very true. when the terminal first opened it only had two jet ways and very little ramp space. All that could really fit back then was a couple of baby nines and a Jetstream 31.

Nice not to have to make so many stops nowadays.
GEAUX SAINTS!
 
MSYtristar
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RE: 2 New Airlines To Enter Gulfport/Biloxi Market

Fri Nov 24, 2006 1:13 am

I know we're looking into the future here, and this is my prediction of service at GPT...a little more realistic considering the market is almost all casino-oriented traffic...and as discussed earlier, GPT is more of a regional market. New service will be added, but not on a huge scale.

Quoting Dsuairptman (Reply 31):
FL: The long awaited return of the ATL RON flt. (This time permentaly)
MCO may be in the cards as well, but not before ATL expansion

FL doens't fill the 2x to ATL right now consistently, so I wouldn't expect a 3rd flight until the market improves and more casinos open.

Quoting Dsuairptman (Reply 31):
DL: Following the ATL trend, expect a mainline RON flt. on the MD80 or 738
The MCO n/s will resume when DLX has aircraft availability.
Conversion of more DLX to 70 seaters.

Maybe one more mainline to ATL tops, but don't look for MCO to comeback in the near future.

Quoting Dsuairptman (Reply 31):
CO: More flight upgrades to 737. EWR n/s will happen, it is just a matter of
time

I can see one RJ to EWR, but no more 737's to IAH...they have a mix right now that works for the market.

Quoting Dsuairptman (Reply 31):
AA: Intially will take GPT-DFW up to 4x dly. Will add ORD n/s and pherhaps MIA down the line. Mainline to DFW and ORD not out of the realm of possibility

Mainline to DFW...a long shot...mainline to ORD...not a chance.

Quoting Dsuairptman (Reply 31):
UA: Could easily see 2x dly to ORD and 1X dly to IAD for starters. ORD increasing to 3x dly. ORD flts on E170/CR7s. IAD on CRJ200/700

3x daily to ORD is overkill for GPT. Likely two flights at the most. IAD would happen well after ORD.

Quoting Dsuairptman (Reply 31):
US: Carrier is meant for GPT. W/ there hubs and focus citites and GPT draw to those markets it would work well. N/S to CLT on larger CRJS w/ one going mainline possible. CLT has the market for Coast tourisim as proved by the tourist operators that sold success with Southeast charter flights. Even though that was a junket, the demand had to be there for it to happen. With US you also have connections and a convient alternate to ATL.

2/3x daily CRJ/ERJ CLT-GPT is very possible, but no mainline.

Quoting Dsuairptman (Reply 31):
NW: The big loser. With N/S to IAH/ATL/CLT/DFW the demand for MEM would quickly be absorbed by larger planes going to larger hubs. N/S on Airways to PHL would cut into DTW int'l traffic and if CO launched GPT-CLE or DLX launched GPT-CVG, it would pretty much stamp out N/S to DTW
NW would find its own riches is doing what it does best (besides screwing employees) and take advantage of the MSP hub to launch 2x dly GPT-MSP on the 320, providing n/s links to an area also proven in providing Coast toursit traffic as well as conx to the Mid West, Pacific Northwest and Western Canada

I thice you'll still see GPT-MEM thrice daily, even if all of them are downgraded to CRJ's. MEM-MSP is a long ways off, and when it happens, it certainly won't be on a 320...more like a CRJ. MEM-DTW...maybe a 6 &7 only CRJ service for starters.
 
unitedMSY
Posts: 111
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2006 11:33 am

RE: 2 New Airlines To Enter Gulfport/Biloxi Market

Fri Nov 24, 2006 12:52 pm

I could see UAX entering GPT with the CRJ-200 at first, to ORD, then upgrading to one of our planes, a 170 or a CRJ-700. As it stands right now, MESA would be the most likely canidate with their CR2. UA tried ORD-DAB with it, so they could easily stretch it down to GPT. I do not think any airline would even think of entering GPT right now, with the current state of the terminal. GPT has always had the problem with poor security access (lines up to 1 hour or more, defeats the purpose of GPT and thats why I drive to MSY) and poor parking facilities, no room at times (also defeats the purpose of GPT, thats why I drive to MSY), and last, no good connecting flights (Dealing with ATL, the 3rd and main reason I dont use GPT). It seems the airport authority and local government are fairly poor at talking to airlines, and thats why 100,000 of our residents, as well as myself, drive to MSY. Until GPT can do a 180, expect MSY to continue to mutilate the growth. The airport is going to have to CONVINCE the airlines to risk this market, they will probaly succeed, but until then, look at MSY continue to grow. My suggestions for GPT:

-Get rid of Republic Parking (Those people most likely dropped out of high school, thats why the parking machines run out of tickets and traffic backs up onto Airport Rd, and it takes about 20 minutes for their "new" employees to figure out how to do an employee car tag). Also, Republic has no plans for a parking garage, a much needed thing for this market.

-Oust about 75% of the Airport authority, these people do not know how to properly market GPT to the airlines, and that is why you see Delta adding a million flights to ATL.

-Improve TSA. Get MORE magnometers. It is horrible to stand in line for 2 hours for a 50 minute flight to a local hub.

-Now that they moved Hudson News inside, and the local news made a BIG deal that you "can now buy beverages and food beyond security" (Yayy, MSY and MOB had this since I was 5) they need to find a new retailer outside the security checkpoint.

-Improve ground transportation. It's disgusting, period. The local public transit is not allowed to serve GPT, Casinos and Taxis only. Another reason I am willing to carpool people to MSY to fly, when I fly.

-Get a business center, not another acrade. GPT continues to drive away business passengers daily.

-Get more E-Ticket kiosks. Half the airlines have them.

-Promote BUSINESS traffic, not just Casinos. Every sign in that blasted airport promotes gambling, what about our local industry???? The airlines do take that into consideration.

GPT is doing one good thing, expanding the terminal, but everything I mentioned has NOT been mentioned or planned, and it will continue to eat away at GPT until something is done. I am disgusted by our Airport, I support new service, but they need to clean up their act. There is enormous potential in this market, but it needs support.
 
krsw757
Posts: 61
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2005 12:22 pm

RE: 2 New Airlines To Enter Gulfport/Biloxi Market

Sat Nov 25, 2006 6:13 am

What about USA 3000?
 
dsuairptman
Posts: 692
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2003 9:45 am

RE: 2 New Airlines To Enter Gulfport/Biloxi Market

Sat Nov 25, 2006 2:00 pm

Quoting UnitedMSY (Thread starter):
I am really pulling for UA in GPT, I know its possible. GPT is terribly underserved, and when new service is announced, it's "Big Comfy MD-88's to Atlanta!" not "UA adds 2 dailies to ORD" or "USAirways adds 2 CLT's", let's get some real news around here.....the terminal expansion is going ok, so it will be ready soon.

You should really watch what you say as to some this sounds contradictory.
If you do pull for GPT, then promote new service, but DO NOT BITCH about the fantastic upgrades GPT supports and has finally achieved after years of struggeling! Those DL mad dogs play a vital role in increased capacity to meet demand! They may not fly through your favorite hub but, don't come giving smack about it! And NO it is not just a presence againsit FL. DL luached the mainline as Sat. only for deamnd and guess what...the demand grew to the point it went daily and now 2x dly on mainline DL. Look for further gowth not just in new airlines but, upgraded equipment. The more seats on legit carriers (especially w/ mainline planes) is all for the better !

Quoting UnitedMSY (Reply 35):
-Now that they moved Hudson News inside, and the local news made a BIG deal that you "can now buy beverages and food beyond security" (Yayy, MSY and MOB had this since I was 5) they need to find a new retailer outside the security checkpoint.

Have you even been inside the terminal lately?! The place is cramped to the max due to renovation. Putting Hudson's in the sterile area was part of the renovation. Right now there is no room for a store outside security, the old Hudson's space is being converted into the new security screening area. Maybe after that is complete and renovation moves to the front of the terminal a pre security store will be added, but right now there is no room!

Quoting UnitedMSY (Reply 35):
-Get more E-Ticket kiosks. Half the airlines have them.

What are you talking about? Every airline there has at least 2 kiosks each. That may not be as many as you would like but, there getting the job done. Agian after the growing pains of renovation end and the check in area is expanded you may see more if the airlines decide to add them.

Quoting UnitedMSY (Reply 35):
Promote BUSINESS traffic, not just Casinos. Every sign in that blasted airport promotes gambling, what about our local industry???? The airlines do take that into consideration.

Ture every thing in there pushes the casinos. They are a big part of increased demand for GPT, however there is just as much a substantial demand for business travel. The one thing you have to remember is that people headed somewhere for business usually know where it is their going to, the really don't need neon signs telling them about it.
GEAUX SAINTS!
 
dsuairptman
Posts: 692
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2003 9:45 am

RE: 2 New Airlines To Enter Gulfport/Biloxi Market

Sat Nov 25, 2006 3:11 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 30):
1) Atlanta 232
2) Tampa 153
3) Miami/Lauderdale 149
4) DC/Baltimore 103
5) Houston 88
6) New York City 53
7) Chicago 47
8) Philadelphia 44
9) Las Vegas 41
10) Dallas 38



Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 34):
FL doens't fill the 2x to ATL right now consistently, so I wouldn't expect a 3rd flight until the market improves and more casinos open.

How do you know this and where are the numbers behind this?

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 34):
I can see one RJ to EWR, but no more 737's to IAH...they have a mix right now that works for the market.

FYI CO was ready to upgrade another flight to ERJ pre Katrina, as the market rebuilds, more mainline CO metal will arrive.

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 34):
3x daily to ORD is overkill for GPT. Likely two flights at the most. IAD would happen well after ORD.

Who is to say that? I defer to the current O&D list above.

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 34):
2/3x daily CRJ/ERJ CLT-GPT is very possible, but no mainline.

Why only launch with 2x?! The market is growing and could easily support 3x (This what USX usually luanches with in new markets)
I wager to look for 4x GPT-CLT on a mix of CR2/CRJ7. As the list above states DCA would be a gold mine for an airline to launch GPT N/S

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 34):
I thice you'll still see GPT-MEM thrice daily, even if all of them are downgraded to CRJ's. MEM-MSP is a long ways off, and when it happens, it certainly won't be on a 320...more like a CRJ. MEM-DTW...maybe a 6 &7 only CRJ service for starters.

DTW was at one time close to happening, then things went south. However the area is strongly courtting NW for N/S MSP (If the red tail dosen't bleed to death first). It may luanch on a DC9, but diffently not a route for an RJ.

One more thing for everyone who seems obssesed with this idea that GPT is MSY's little brother and just a regional market, your wrong. The area supporting GPT has experinced tremendous growth and will contiue growing as the area rebuilds. This area very much supports its local airport and and as this massive growth has continued, the airlines have responded with upgraded service and this will not subside. Just as current airlines grow their seats in GPT, new carriers become more enticedto add service. New service will arrive on regionals but, just as some current carriers continue to upgrade flights to mainline (and that will continue), the new entrants will also grow their pax numbers and revenue and will most likely increase their seats to this market as well. As for taveling to the other side of NOLA for a flight, there will still be some, but in far fewer numbers than the past. GPT will continue its magnificant growth and continue to reap and win back pax once lost to other airports
GEAUX SAINTS!
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24595
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: 2 New Airlines To Enter Gulfport/Biloxi Market

Sat Nov 25, 2006 3:56 pm

Quoting Dsuairptman (Reply 38):
Who is to say that? I defer to the current O&D list above.

The O&D list shows that anything more than 2x to ORD is overkill.

Quoting Dsuairptman (Reply 38):
I wager to look for 4x GPT-CLT on a mix of CR2/CRJ7. As the list above states DCA would be a gold mine for an airline to launch GPT N/S

Anything more than 2x CLT-GPT isn't happening, and no airline in there right mind would waste a valuable DCA slot to GPT. With the government rebuilding traffic, it might make temporary sense, but definitley not past that. Most of GPT's Washington traffic is to BWI on airTran.

Quoting Dsuairptman (Reply 38):

DTW was at one time close to happening, then things went south. However the area is strongly courtting NW for N/S MSP (If the red tail dosen't bleed to death first). It may luanch on a DC9, but diffently not a route for an RJ.

MSP-GPT or DTW-GPT would be an RJ and nothing more. Northwest has used RJs on routes as long as MSP-TUS.
a.
 
FCYTravis
Posts: 1172
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2005 4:21 am

RE: 2 New Airlines To Enter Gulfport/Biloxi Market

Sat Nov 25, 2006 4:23 pm

Quoting Dsuairptman (Reply 31):
The MCO n/s will resume when DLX has aircraft availability.

DLConx does not have an aircraft availability problem. They have a "way too many high-CASM 50-seat RJ" problem. The MCO RJ-minihub was a stopgap desperation move to try and get some use out of the masses of RJs that DL has contracted, and that move has been rather unprofitable. It's already been shrunk quite a bit, as Freedom's ERJs move out to JFK and ATL. You can't make money selling RJ seats to families going to see Mickey.

Doug Parker has said flat-out that if US is successful in their DL acquisition, the Florida RJ operation will be the first thing he shuts down.
USAir A321 service now departing for SFO with fuel stops in CAK, COS and RNO. Enjoy your flight.
 
dsuairptman
Posts: 692
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2003 9:45 am

RE: 2 New Airlines To Enter Gulfport/Biloxi Market

Sat Nov 25, 2006 4:49 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 39):
Anything more than 2x CLT-GPT isn't happening, and no airline in there right mind would waste a valuable DCA slot to GPT. With the government rebuilding traffic, it might make temporary sense, but definitley not past that. Most of GPT's Washington traffic is to BWI on airTran.

I flat out disagree with you big time on this. CLT 3x would happen. This would provide a convenant alternative to nearby ATL while stimulating growth in both directions and allowing greater access to East Coast destinations. And agian, CLT has been a source for toursit traffic. Combined with business travel, 3x would work. Even if it started as 2x it would grow quickly, as other airlines in this market have discovered.

You must have never been to the GPT market to make a statement claiming DCA would not happen! There are 3 major federal government employers in this market springing from that smaller government installations, N/S to DCA would be hot property at GPT.
GEAUX SAINTS!
 
N1120A
Posts: 26468
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: 2 New Airlines To Enter Gulfport/Biloxi Market

Sat Nov 25, 2006 5:08 pm

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 23):
Boils down to a matter of preference. While the casinos in Mississippi (Both Gulf Coast and Tunica) are less than a half day's drive for a large part of the southern US (and within the drive vs. fly threshold for many), some would rather spend the same amount of time (or less) to fly to Las Vegas. Myself, I'd rather fly to Las Vegas than drive to Biloxi.

Not to mention that people can gamble to their heart's content in New Orleans anyway.

Quoting Dsuairptman (Reply 38):
Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 34):
3x daily to ORD is overkill for GPT. Likely two flights at the most. IAD would happen well after ORD.

Who is to say that? I defer to the current O&D list above.

47 seats a day are sold. 2 CRJs ends up being 100. 3 is definately overkill.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24595
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: 2 New Airlines To Enter Gulfport/Biloxi Market

Sat Nov 25, 2006 5:54 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 42):

47 seats a day are sold. 2 CRJs ends up being 100.

It is 47 both ways, so 2 CRJs is 200.

Quoting Dsuairptman (Reply 41):
CLT has been a source for toursit traffic.

No, it isn't. Charlotte-Gulfport has so little O&D (>10), DOT doesn't even register it. The Gulfport/Biloxi region is an extremely limited geographic market. Most of their tourists come from within the region, and few come from outside the South, Texas, and Florida.

[Edited 2006-11-25 09:55:15]
a.
 
MSYtristar
Posts: 7543
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2005 12:52 am

RE: 2 New Airlines To Enter Gulfport/Biloxi Market

Sun Nov 26, 2006 12:50 am

Quoting Dsuairptman (Reply 38):
One more thing for everyone who seems obssesed with this idea that GPT is MSY's little brother and just a regional market, your wrong

Actually, I am right. Sorry.

Dsuairprtman, you're living in a dream land if you think GPT can support all that service. Time to come back to reality!
 
MSYtristar
Posts: 7543
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2005 12:52 am

RE: 2 New Airlines To Enter Gulfport/Biloxi Market

Sun Nov 26, 2006 4:29 am

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 44):



Quoting Dsuairptman (Reply 38):
GPT will continue its magnificant growth

There has been no magnificent growth....what qualifies as magnificent? A couple of MD-88 upgrades? A 737 upgraded to IAH? Come one. GPT will always be a regional market as long as MSY is around. That's just the way it is, and it is not meant to be "anti GTP".
 
unitedMSY
Posts: 111
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2006 11:33 am

RE: 2 New Airlines To Enter Gulfport/Biloxi Market

Sun Nov 26, 2006 3:24 pm

MSYtristar does have a point. GPT is going to grow, of course, but it will always be second class to MSY. In GPT you still cannot board a nonstop to LAX, DEN, IAD, MCO*, DCA, ORD, MDW, etc. There is alot of business on this strip of coast that seeps to MSY, including myself. My point is, GPT needs to stop promoting larger planes, and focus on promoting a local drive or campaign to get additional service to more cities, who cares about the plane, heck, I would take an ERJ to ORD. They make a big stink about 737s to IAH or MD88's to ATL, yes, a nice upgrade, but it would be bigger news if GPT had ERJ's to CLT, ORD, etc. And you are wrong about the E-Ticket kiosks. Delta does NOT have them, however, they generally staff the lobby with a sufficient amount of people, so it is usually not a problem. As for the DL MD-88's, the loads suck, period. I am not going to post actual loads as its confidential, but I have seen 88's dispatch with less than 25% capacity filled. They do a decent job on the 1:15 P.M. flight on some days, but the night flight is a complete and utter joke. And yes, MSYtristar is right about AirTran's loads in GPT. I have friends there in GPT, and I know the loads, you could say on par with Delta's MD-88 loads. This market is flooded with excessive ATL seats that need to go fast. We all know too well Beau Rivage is what pumps the money into AirTran here, and if they were not here, GPT would still be the way it was in 1995. The sad fact is, fares are higher here quite often on AirTran, so my parents drive to, you guessed it, MSY, to fly cheaper. Casino's are not everything, business and competiton is what makes the fares go down. I doubt DCA would spare a slot for GPT, when they have flights via MSY which pull in a ton of Mississippi residents. GPT-MSP, on a NWA DC-9? LOL, NW has used CRJ's on MSP-JAX and MSP-TUS many times. Magnificent growth? Yes, if you want to see hourly flights to ATL on what will probaly be empty 757's that are "courted" by the local community. The local community needs to "court" additional service, starting small, maybe even just on weekends to ORD and CLT, and just give it a try, and build the service. People ask why my license plate says "FLYMSY"? Because I travel twice weekly to ORD and I do not have time or desire to waste hours of my life commuting through ATL or IAH to get to the 3rd largest U.S. city.
 
A330323X
Posts: 2666
Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2003 4:06 pm

RE: 2 New Airlines To Enter Gulfport/Biloxi Market

Sun Nov 26, 2006 4:29 pm

Quoting Dsuairptman (Reply 38):
Why only launch with 2x?! The market is growing and could easily support 3x (This what USX usually luanches with in new markets)
I wager to look for 4x GPT-CLT on a mix of CR2/CRJ7.

So, if in your words, USX usually launches markets with three dailies, why then should we expect four dailies here?  Yeah sure

And when's the last time US has started a new domestic market with CR7 (or E70) service? (Hint: it's never.)

And, of course, USX (excluding Air Midwest) hasn't launched a new city for over 5 years, so it's hardly relevant what they have historically done. HPX, on the other hand, regularly started routes with even a single frequency.

With respect to other similar routes in the area, US serves MGM with 3x CRJ, MOB with 4x CRJ, and JAN with 3x CRJ. At each of those markets, which are already mature with an established US presence, US has unsuccessfully tried expanding in the recent past, either with an additional frequency or with larger equipment on some frequencies.

I do think US could very well start service in the GPT market, but it'll likely be 2x to CLT or possibly 3x to CLT, certainly not 4x, and certainly not with anything other than a 50-seat RJ. (I also don't think they'd consider 2x CLT + 1x PHL, as US doesn't like using their RJs on stage lengths that long.)

Quoting Dsuairptman (Reply 38):
As the list above states DCA would be a gold mine for an airline to launch GPT N/S

As Mark already said, no airline is ever going to waste a DCA slot on GPT. The only similarly-sized markets to get DCA service get it via Air21 or Vision 100 slots, and if any more of those become available, there are still plenty more small hubs that would get service before GPT. Like LIT. Or PNS. Or TLH. Or EYW. Or MOB. Or XNA. Or BHM. Or ILM. Or LEX. I think you get the idea.

Could a DCA-GPT flight make money? Probably. But those other cities would all make *more* money, and with extremely limited slots, you have to serve the markets that make the *most* money possible.
I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
 
N1120A
Posts: 26468
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: 2 New Airlines To Enter Gulfport/Biloxi Market

Sun Nov 26, 2006 6:38 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 43):
No, it isn't. Charlotte-Gulfport has so little O&D (>10), DOT doesn't even register it. The Gulfport/Biloxi region is an extremely limited geographic market. Most of their tourists come from within the region, and few come from outside the South, Texas, and Florida.

Not to mention the fact that the region's air transport needs are well covered by MSY, which is a rather easy drive anyway. If Mobile, a much larger city that is farther from MSY, sees most of its traffic head to New Orleans, there is no reason to expect anything else from Biloxi.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
FCYTravis
Posts: 1172
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2005 4:21 am

RE: 2 New Airlines To Enter Gulfport/Biloxi Market

Sun Nov 26, 2006 7:29 pm

Quoting A330323X (Reply 47):
US doesn't like using their RJs on stage lengths that long.

It'll be interesting to see how that works out with any attempt to connect more Midwest dots to the East Coast hubs. OMA-PHL on a US CRJ would be hell, but I'd guess that an E70 would be massive overkill.

Then again, US currently flies CRJs CLT/PHL-MSP, CLT-XNA and PHX-DSM/OMA, none of which are exactly short hops.  Yeah sure
USAir A321 service now departing for SFO with fuel stops in CAK, COS and RNO. Enjoy your flight.