rdwootty
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US Airways Closed To Muslims?

Thu Nov 23, 2006 5:28 am

Watching the news I see that you are not allowed to pray before a flight with USairways and if you do you will be taken of the aircraft in handcuffs and interviewed . Then because of the airline you have missed the flight and you will not be allowed to fly unless you but a new ticket!! Freedom I do not think so and I certainly will not be selling USAirways tickets if they treat the customers like that. The ticket clerk was very officous and dreogartory to the customers and as we would call it in the UK " Snotty". There is no need and it seems to prove that the US is a paranoid country.
I am not a muslim but was very disturbed watching this clip as to the customer service level of USAirways.
 
ABQopsHP
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RE: US Airways Closed To Muslims?

Thu Nov 23, 2006 5:39 am

Keep in mind what you see in the news is highly edited.
ABQ ops, Cactus 202 requesting you order 5 Green Chile Chicken stew for us to p/u on arrival. ;)
 
User avatar
EA CO AS
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RE: US Airways Closed To Muslims?

Thu Nov 23, 2006 5:42 am

Quoting Rdwootty (Thread starter):
Watching the news I see that you are not allowed to pray before a flight with USairways and if you do you will be taken of the aircraft in handcuffs and interviewed .

What a ridiculous comment.  sarcastic 

Quoting Rdwootty (Thread starter):
There is no need and it seems to prove that the US is a paranoid country.

Take your views to non-av, pal - you can bash the U.S. all you want in there. Let's keep this forum to rational discussion of civil aviation, m'kay?
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
luisca
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RE: US Airways Closed To Muslims?

Thu Nov 23, 2006 5:43 am

Stop being so self righteous. The people that hijacked 4 airplanes and murdered 3000 people on 9/11/01 did it in the name of Islam.

All Muslims may not be terrorist, but the religion is used as an excuse for terrorism, and as such If I see 6 middle eastern passengers praying together before a flight and then sitting separately I would be suspicious too.

US airways did the right thing, there was no other option but to question them, if there had been a air marshal in the flight then he could have done it without having to take them off.

I have not read anywhere that they were not offered compensation for the delay, but if this is the case then THIS was wrong and US should have fixed their travel arrangement.

It is very easy to say I would have done differently, but you dont know in the heat of a situation, with YOUR life possibly threatened, if you would have done the same, these 6 men may not have been terrorist, but they sure as hell fit the profile.

In the words of Carlos Mencia; when saying that if he were an airport screener hed only screen arabs, "When an Arab would ask me why I only check him, I would point to the pictures of the terrorist and say you look like number 3 and number 10 check him twice"

And if US looses you as a customer then boo hoo, they could care less, they have gained many more by proving they care MORE about safety than about political correctness.

[Edited 2006-11-22 21:50:15]
If it ain't Boeing (or Embraer ;-)) I ain't Going!
 
whappeh
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RE: US Airways Closed To Muslims?

Thu Nov 23, 2006 5:50 am

Quoting Luisca (Reply 3):
Stop being so self righteous. The people that hijacked 4 airplanes and murdered 3000 people on 9/11/01 did it in the name of Islam.

I don't know if I can fully agree with that statement...

Quoting Luisca (Reply 3):
US airways did the right thing, there was no other option but to question them, if there had been a air marshal in the flight then he could have done it without having to take them off.

However I can say I fully agree with that one.

I don't get why US Airways is the airline everyone loves to hate. They are a company that moves aircraft around full of people for a living, you don't like them don't fly them, but it always seems anytime they do something different or get on the news, people come out of the woodwork proclaiming how horriable and bad of a company they are. It baffles me.
-Travel now, journey infinitely.
 
aviatortj
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RE: US Airways Closed To Muslims?

Thu Nov 23, 2006 5:50 am

I've suggested deletion.

If you think what happened on US Airways would not happen on other airlines, you are sadly mistaken. Just imagine how things would have worked out if they had simply left the plane when the captain asked. People close to the situation are suggesting that these men were trying to see how far they could take things simply for the publicity. I'm certain the Imams are not the victims.
 
NIKV69
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RE: US Airways Closed To Muslims?

Thu Nov 23, 2006 5:58 am

Quoting AviatorTJ (Reply 5):
If you think what happened on US Airways would not happen on other airlines, you are sadly mistaken

 checkmark 

This was more pax paranoia than US' fault the FA just responded to the story she got from the Passenger. Which was embellished quite a bit. We are letting the terrorists win again. We are scared when some body prays in the gate?
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
jacobin777
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RE: US Airways Closed To Muslims?

Thu Nov 23, 2006 6:00 am

Quoting Luisca (Reply 3):
I have not read anywhere that they were not offered compensation for the delay, but if this is the case then THIS was wrong and US should have fixed their travel arrangement.

Not only that they were not offered compensation, but after they were given the "all clear" by the authorities, US refused to allow them to purchase a ticket back..they wound up flying on NW

Quoting Luisca (Reply 3):
All Muslims may not be terrorist, but the religion is used as an excuse for terrorism, and as such If I see 6 middle eastern passengers praying together before a flight and then sitting separately I would be suspicious too.

Racism and stupidity at its finest...nice to know it still exists in the United States.... sarcastic 

Quoting Luisca (Reply 3):
US airways did the right thing, there was no other option but to question them

"no other option"? it looks like as if the media originally got 1/2 the story wrong as it was....the did nothing wrong..they are guilty of the way they look and their race

Quoting Luisca (Reply 3):

In the words of Carlos Mencia; when saying that if he were an airport screener hed only screen arabs, "When an Arab would ask me why I only check him, I would point to the pictures of the terrorist and say you look like number 3 and number 10 check him twic

what a stupid and ignorant comment to make..I guess idiocy likes company.. sarcastic ..



"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Franklin's Contributions to the Conference on February 17 (III) Fri, Feb 17, 1775"
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rdwootty
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RE: US Airways Closed To Muslims?

Thu Nov 23, 2006 6:00 am

You are quite right in that the airline must ensure the safety of the passengers. However it was very clear from the TV that USAirways did not consider the customers needs and as stated above the ticket counter girl did herself and the airline no favours at all. Just thinking that maybe there are more muslims in the US than in the middle east so it needs some sort of understanding from the "other" citizens if the Muslims wish to travel. It is such a pity that EA CO etc seems to think I am anti American I am not but there needs to be understanding of travellers needs. Interestingly at BHX they were the first European airport to install a wudu and a prayer room. Is this provided at US Airports?
 
aviatortj
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RE: US Airways Closed To Muslims?

Thu Nov 23, 2006 6:05 am

I don't care if someone's yelling "Allah, allah, allah" or "Jesus, Jesus, Jesus" down the jetway or on the plane. This isn't the place for it! Keep it to yourself! If you have to pray enough to cause disruption, schedule your flight at a different time, Jew, Muslim, Catholic.
 
prebennorholm
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RE: US Airways Closed To Muslims?

Thu Nov 23, 2006 6:05 am

Remember that an airline ticket is a contract. That contract has conditions, including:

When pax are ordered to board the plane, then they board.

When pax are ordered to sit in their seat with a fastened seat belt, then...

Etc.

When pax stick to their part of the contract, then the airline should do what they can to stick to their part - to bring pax from A to B.

When pax do not stick to their part of the contract, then the contract is cancelled.

Handcuffs come to use when pax disagree with contract conditions in a physical way.

It is no more complicated than that. And it's nothing special for USairways.
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
trex8
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RE: US Airways Closed To Muslims?

Thu Nov 23, 2006 6:06 am

Quoting Luisca (Reply 3):
All Muslims may not be terrorist, but the religion is used as an excuse for terrorism, and as such If I see 6 middle eastern passengers praying together before a flight and then sitting separately I would be suspicious too.

so if I see several white men pray together before a flight and then seperate I should be worried about another Oklahoma City ?? Gee, guess I will have to tell the guys next time before going to our AirGuard duty not to do bible study!
 
airbusfanyyz
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RE: US Airways Closed To Muslims?

Thu Nov 23, 2006 6:06 am

Quoting Luisca (Reply 3):
Stop being so self righteous. The people that hijacked 4 airplanes and murdered 3000 people on 9/11/01 did it in the name of Islam.

Oh I see....just like how people involved in the Northern Ireland conflict used to bomb sites in London etc. did it in the name of Christianity?

No it's all about power and greed and by acting in a racist and arrogant matter you've lowered yourself to their level.

Remember those people who hijacked the 4 planes and committed the horrific murder of 3000 people came from Saudi Arabia and Egypt yet the dictators in those countries are still in power and the rest swept under the rug....

Hello pot, it's the kettle calling.

Cheers,
Kaz

[Edited 2006-11-22 22:15:41]
 
ABQopsHP
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RE: US Airways Closed To Muslims?

Thu Nov 23, 2006 6:09 am

Yes some airports in the USA provide ecumenical rooms of prayer for pax. ABQ has one.
ABQ ops, Cactus 202 requesting you order 5 Green Chile Chicken stew for us to p/u on arrival. ;)
 
whappeh
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RE: US Airways Closed To Muslims?

Thu Nov 23, 2006 6:13 am

Quoting ABQopsHP (Reply 13):
Yes some airports in the USA provide ecumenical rooms of prayer for pax. ABQ has one.

That seems to be a good idea.

Maybe I am missing something, but prayer is a private conversation between you and whatever power you define, why the need for the extra actions? Its illogical to ban prayer from the gate area, or on aircraft because no rules can ban your thoughts, however shouldn't common sense by all parties be applied? Religious fanatics are to blame for what has been happening, and like what had been said before, it doesn't matter who is being prayed too, if someone runs down the isle of the aircraft yelling "ALLAH HERE I COME" or "JESUS HERE I COME" they're going to get the same treatment.
-Travel now, journey infinitely.
 
aviatortj
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RE: US Airways Closed To Muslims?

Thu Nov 23, 2006 6:21 am

Quoting Trex8 (Reply 11):

so if I see several white men pray together before a flight and then seperate I should be worried about another Oklahoma City ?? Gee, guess I will have to tell the guys next time before going to our AirGuard duty not to do bible study!

Hell yes you should be worried. A group like that that goes together, then separates is suspicious on some level. And just to play devil's advocate, everyone likes to bring up the federal building in OK. That happened once, right? How many other times has a white male killed that many people?

Edited to add: Also consider the venue. What group has killed the most people with airplanes? Fertilizer? Guns?

[Edited 2006-11-22 22:22:40]
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: US Airways Closed To Muslims?

Thu Nov 23, 2006 6:24 am

Quoting Luisca (Reply 3):
Stop being so self righteous. The people that hijacked 4 airplanes and murdered 3000 people on 9/11/01 did it in the name of Islam.

People of all different religions terrorise in the name of them and its a shame. Islam is a peaceful religion and its a shame that a few bad apples ruin it for the other 99+% of muslims who are peaceful. Christianity has just as much a bloddy record. Fundimentalism is a bad thing.

I appolgize, but I had to vent.
It is what it is...
 
travellin'man
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RE: US Airways Closed To Muslims?

Thu Nov 23, 2006 6:27 am

What comes up here in this thread, and in the one closed earlier today is that the sight of Muslims praying is believed to justifiably provoke revulsion and fear, and actions based on that paranoia, not instead on critical judgment. There are 1 billion Muslims in this world, I think as many 5 million Arab Americans in the US, most of whom are Muslim. Many of them pray, and pray for the same things that most Christians pray for: peace, happiness, health, a resolution to the world's problems. Fake arguments about how people shouldn't pray in public disguise this rejection of a ritual which is eminently human and non-intrusive. To see Muslims and immediately launch into justifications for why they might be terrorists is like people in the 50's saying they felt justified branding black people as rapists, murderers, and thieves, and therefore subject to all kinds of harassment.

Praying is not suspicious behaviour. Learn to see cultural differences for what they are: simply that, not in and of themselves automatic indicators of anti-social behaviour. Just because it doesn't appear "normal" doesn't make it bad; it's just different, and its difference enriches our national texture as the most diverse country on the planet. Our ability to survive and thrive depends on our being intelligent about these things, not equating 19 hijackers with 1/6 of the world's population, just as anyone as a Westerner (in their right minds) would not like to be equated with Hitler for wearing pants or some other surface similarity of no real value.
It is not enough to be rude; one must also be incorrect.
 
luisca
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RE: US Airways Closed To Muslims?

Thu Nov 23, 2006 6:32 am

Quoting AviatorTJ (Reply 15):
Hell yes you should be worried. A group like that that goes together, then separates is suspicious on some level. And just to play devil's advocate, everyone likes to bring up the federal building in OK. That happened once, right? How many other times has a white male killed that many people?

Thats right, I for once will not let PC compromise safety, I am sick of how people immediately label someone a racist simply because of advocating profiling. People conveniently forget that If we have another terrorist attack much much much more likely than not it will be carried out by a Muslim terrorist group than some crazy fundamentalist redneck.

Any suspicious behavior while traveling is reason for investigation, and praying in group and sitting separately is suspicious, whether your Muslim, Christian, Hindu or scientologist.
If it ain't Boeing (or Embraer ;-)) I ain't Going!
 
naritaflyer
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RE: US Airways Closed To Muslims?

Thu Nov 23, 2006 6:32 am

Quoting Trex8 (Reply 11):
so if I see several white men pray together before a flight and then seperate I should be worried about another Oklahoma City ?? Gee, guess I will have to tell the guys next time before going to our AirGuard duty not to do bible study!

No, you don't understand. This does not apply to white people but it applies to non-whites in the eyes of white people. White person who speaks English is above reproach. Didn't you know that?
 
luisca
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RE: US Airways Closed To Muslims?

Thu Nov 23, 2006 6:41 am

Quoting Naritaflyer (Reply 19):
No, you don't understand. This does not apply to white people but it applies to non-whites in the eyes of white people. White person who speaks English is above reproach. Didn't you know that?

I understand were your coming from but I just have to say that all cultures are guilty of racism, Blacks, Whites, Latins, Arabs, Japanese, Chinese they all have racism.

Racism is not a white only club, I have seen it in Latin America, I have seen it in the US, didn't Japan Murder thousands of Chinese because they were "Inferior"?

I am Latin, and the only time I have experienced racist insults, etc. in the US was once and you know who the offenders where? three black men.
If it ain't Boeing (or Embraer ;-)) I ain't Going!
 
travellin'man
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RE: US Airways Closed To Muslims?

Thu Nov 23, 2006 6:44 am

If this had been a group of Catholic priests or Pentecostalist preachers, even Jewish rabbis, conducting a prayer together in hushed voices, without wild and flamboyant gestures, people would have noticed them, but not assigned any negative value judgment to them. No one would have assumed they were terrorists, or expressed any resentment that they were conducting some form of semi-private ritual in public. They would have thought, "They are praying." If anything, they would have assigned a positive value to it. That this was not the case for these Muslims says a lot about our fear based society, and sadly, also its ignorance.
It is not enough to be rude; one must also be incorrect.
 
Gary2880
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RE: US Airways Closed To Muslims?

Thu Nov 23, 2006 6:50 am

Quoting Luisca (Reply 18):
I am sick of how people immediately label someone

You and me both brother  Smile
Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel :- Samuel Johnson
 
travellin'man
Posts: 469
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RE: US Airways Closed To Muslims?

Thu Nov 23, 2006 6:54 am

Quoting Luisca (Reply 18):
I am sick of how people immediately label someone a racist simply because of advocating profiling.

That's because racial profiling doesn't work. Criminal profiling DOES work, and in that process race is a minor factor. Ask the Israelis.
It is not enough to be rude; one must also be incorrect.
 
scalebuilder
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RE: US Airways Closed To Muslims?

Thu Nov 23, 2006 6:59 am

Quoting Travellin'man (Reply 21):
That this was not the case for these Muslims says a lot about our fear based society, and sadly, also its ignorance.

Sadly, you're so right

Quoting Luisca (Reply 20):
I am Latin, and the only time I have experienced racist insults, etc. in the US was once and you know who the offenders where? three black men.

I assume it should matter little, if at all to you, what the origin of racism may be. Sorry it happened to you.

Sorry it happened to the 6 Clerics aboard the US Airways flight too. This was racism in the right meaning of the word, and just as embarrasing to our free society.
Go the extra mile......and avoid the traffic!!!
 
prebennorholm
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RE: US Airways Closed To Muslims?

Thu Nov 23, 2006 7:00 am

When looking for the root cause for this incident, then...

Nobody gets handcuffed for praying to whatever god including Odin, Thor, Zeus etc.

But at an airport you do what the officials tell you to do. You may complain afterwards, if you think that you are badly treated, but otherwise...

If you start to get physical, then you get handcuffed. Game over.
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
D L X
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RE: US Airways Closed To Muslims?

Thu Nov 23, 2006 7:10 am

Quoting Luisca (Reply 3):
In the words of Carlos Mencia; when saying that if he were an airport screener hed only screen arabs, "When an Arab would ask me why I only check him, I would point to the pictures of the terrorist and say you look like number 3 and number 10 check him twice"

1) What a F--KING MORONIC thing to say, and 2) What a F--KING MORONIC thing to repeat. Being latin, you should be the first to jump up and say how ridiculous that was. When a cop pulls you over, would you let him get away with pointing to pictures of gang members and saying " you look like number 3 and number 10?" F--KING MORONIC.

Quoting Rdwootty (Reply 8):
Interestingly at BHX they were the first European airport to install a wudu and a prayer room. Is this provided at US Airports?

Yes. Every airport I've been to has one. You should check them out before you label.

Quoting Luisca (Reply 18):
Thats right, I for once will not let PC compromise safety, I am sick of how people immediately label someone a racist simply because of advocating profiling. People conveniently forget that If we have another terrorist attack much much much more likely than not it will be carried out by a Muslim terrorist group than some crazy fundamentalist redneck.

I take it back. Maybe you ARE cool with the cop that thinks you're in a gang just because you're Latin.

Quoting Luisca (Reply 18):
praying in group and sitting separately is suspicious, whether your Muslim, Christian, Hindu or scientologist.

Bullshit. Ever been to the Bible Belt? People pray openly and in groups all the time down there, and it's no big deal. You have much to learn, in my opinion.
 
travellin'man
Posts: 469
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RE: US Airways Closed To Muslims?

Thu Nov 23, 2006 7:21 am

Quoting Prebennorholm (Reply 25):
But at an airport you do what the officials tell you to do. You may complain afterwards, if you think that you are badly treated, but otherwise...

Insisting on technicalities is a disingenuous excuse for the unfair treatment of passengers. One ignorant passenger expresses their paranoia to an FA who, apparently equally unable to perceive a situation for what it is, asks people to get off a plane. It's unfair and shows bad judgment, ie it's stupid and wrong.
It is not enough to be rude; one must also be incorrect.
 
HKGKaiTak
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RE: US Airways Closed To Muslims?

Thu Nov 23, 2006 7:30 am

Another case of companies taking the lowest common denominator instead of doing what's right. From the reports I've seen on various news reports, it seems some of the pax on board were "concerned" about the group on the flight (there was an interview with a father who said his kids were scared), so they asked the F/A's to remove those pax from the aircraft ...

So it's a clear case of airlines trying to satisfy their punter's rather than doing the morally correct thing. I can understand the company's position, better to upset 6 pax than to upset the other 100-odd on the flight by not doing anything ... the Customer is Always Right gone mad.

What is this world coming to? Kids being taught that all Muslims do is blow up planes? Racism/Religious discrimination is the correct thing to do? Companies reaching for the lowest common denominator every time?
4 Engines 4 LongHaul
 
prebennorholm
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RE: US Airways Closed To Muslims?

Thu Nov 23, 2006 7:44 am

Quoting Travellin'man (Reply 27):
Insisting on technicalities is a disingenuous excuse for the unfair treatment of passengers. One ignorant passenger expresses their paranoia to an FA who, apparently equally unable to perceive a situation for what it is, asks people to get off a plane. It's unfair and shows bad judgment, ie it's stupid and wrong.

And if it was like you write, then you complain afterwards. You don't get physical and get handcuffed.

But apart from that, of course there is some paranoia around since on this planet there are 5+ billion people, who every time they hear "allah is great", look around to see where a bus, train or airliner is going to be blown up the next second.

We all know that it is not all Muslims - if so, then there wouldn't have been any more busses, trains or airliners left.
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
Art at ISP
Posts: 153
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2001 10:31 am

RE: US Airways Closed To Muslims?

Thu Nov 23, 2006 7:47 am

Let me ask a question.

While its true that almost every religion has fanatics, why is the Muslim world silent when it comes time to disavow these animals? They cry "not all Muslims are terrorists", but then offer no education or public information to the public to promote the 99.999999% of Muslims who are peace loving. And there is little or no condemnation from the Islamic world when these animals strike.

There needs to be significant outreach on the part of Islamic centers and other organizations. If more people were better informed I am sure incidents like this could be avoided or minimized.

Ignorance breeds contempt and education can eradicate ignorance.

Happy Thanksgiving to all to whom it applies, and best wishes for peace to all.
 
JBClark
Posts: 23
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RE: US Airways Closed To Muslims?

Thu Nov 23, 2006 7:49 am

Quoting Naritaflyer (Reply 19):
White person who speaks English is above reproach. Didn't you know that?

You're assuming that whites treat each other better than other races. That's a far more racist statement than most everything that's been posted in this thread so far. This thread should be immediately deleted.
 
RIX
Posts: 1589
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2000 4:46 am

RE: US Airways Closed To Muslims?

Thu Nov 23, 2006 7:52 am

Quoting Rdwootty (Thread starter):
it seems to prove that the US is a paranoid country

- really? Is it a good old American tradition to shoot and kill a Brazilian guy only because he is with a backpack in subway (oh, sorry... tube)?

Whoever claims this "racism" or "ignorance", you talk as if nothing ever happened. One of those 6 said, he never felt that bad, and how little do people know about Islam... I'm afraid, they know way too much, even if what they know is true only about some 0.1% who are actual "wrongdoers". If the people really "knew nothing" then, believe me, no incidents like this would ever happen. But it's not their fault that they know something.
 
travellin'man
Posts: 469
Joined: Sun May 13, 2001 1:55 am

RE: US Airways Closed To Muslims?

Thu Nov 23, 2006 7:54 am

The issue of US Airways handcuffing them, and refusing them further service is secondary for me, deplorable as I find it. Having watched a passenger unjustfiably finger another passenger (the guy who did the accusing was, also according to both my rowmates, a wackjob), which resulted in the F/A asking him all sorts of incriminating questions, watching this poor guy, totally taken by surprise, become indignant, which led to his removal from the plane, I can only sympathize with people who feel unfairly accused. Let us not forget, being asked to step off a plane is pretty heady, especially when you don't think you have done anything wrong. Muslims may feel special indignation at being targeted like this. Yes, they should have complied with crew instructions, but again, I understand their reaction.

The primary issue is the failure of passengers to understand what is going on, and the faiilure of the F/A and her chain of command to show better judgment. After all I expect better critical thinking from someone who may be directing me in a real life emergency.
It is not enough to be rude; one must also be incorrect.
 
aviatortj
Posts: 1694
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2003 9:15 am

RE: US Airways Closed To Muslims?

Thu Nov 23, 2006 7:55 am

Quoting Travellin'man (Reply 21):
If this had been a group of Catholic priests or Pentecostalist preachers, even Jewish rabbis, conducting a prayer together in hushed voices, without wild and flamboyant gestures, people would have noticed them, but not assigned any negative value judgment to them. No one would have assumed they were terrorists, or expressed any resentment that they were conducting some form of semi-private ritual in public. They would have thought, "They are praying." If anything, they would have assigned a positive value to it. That this was not the case for these Muslims says a lot about our fear based society, and sadly, also its ignorance.


The aircraft is not the place for it. Keep it to yourself. If you have to pray at 5:00 and the plane leaves at 4:55, you should take a different flight.

Quoting Travellin'man (Reply 27):
Insisting on technicalities is a disingenuous excuse for the unfair treatment of passengers. One ignorant passenger expresses their paranoia to an FA...

Do you really think it was just one person that expressed concern? How come the captain and crew went with it? Why did these guys need seat belt extensions? How come after the fact, their IDs didn't all match up? If you think this is a one time deal, it's not the case. These guys were causing trouble. Period.

Quoting HKGKaiTak (Reply 28):
Kids being taught that all Muslims do is blow up planes?

Wrong. What are they being taught when the drunk honky gets thrown off the plane? All whites are drunks and shouldn't fly? Come on. These Imams were up to no good and when they refused to leave the plane, they deserved to leave in cuffs.

Quoting Travellin'man (Reply 33):
Yes, they should have complied with crew instructions, but again, I understand their reaction.

I'm sorry to keep picking you out here, but you leave me with a bunch of stuff to reply to. Crew instructions are crew instructions. Are they not? I've seen times where someone who is suspected of being drunk gets thrown off a plane even though when they've had nothing to drink. It's the same case here, just bending over and taking the next flight would have gotten the job done in a much more peaceful manner.

I still have to mention sources close to the situation mention that this was done to see how far the people on the aircraft would let it go. As said above, not everyone is the victim here.

[Edited 2006-11-23 00:01:15]
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 4460
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RE: US Airways Closed To Muslims?

Thu Nov 23, 2006 7:57 am

Quoting HKGKaiTak (Reply 28):
What is this world coming to? Kids being taught that all Muslims do is blow up planes? Racism/Religious discrimination is the correct thing to do? Companies reaching for the lowest common denominator every time?

Wonderfully said. Unfortunately this is the what it seems the world (or at least america) has come to. The media and our friends in DC make this worse in almost every way.

Quoting Luisca (Reply 18):
I am sick of how people immediately label someone a racist simply because of advocating profiling.

I believe that is a very definition of racism. I am half Middle eastern myself and right after 9/11, my family got death threats. We are not muslim (instead Christian), my Middle Eastern side of the family has lived in Texas for the last 50 years. But just because we have Middle eastern blood running through us. It is the attitude like this that makes this possible.

Quoting AviatorTJ (Reply 15):
Hell yes you should be worried. A group like that that goes together, then separates is suspicious on some level. And just to play devil's advocate, everyone likes to bring up the federal building in OK. That happened once, right? How many other times has a white male killed that many people?

The crusades, European colonization of the world, the american slaughter of Native Americans, etc. How about the American attacks in the middle east? Sure weve gotten some terroist, but there have been many more innocent people have died. Many people consider the actions of the American Government to be terrorist.




This is my country and I love it, but were not perfect.
It is what it is...
 
travellin'man
Posts: 469
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RE: US Airways Closed To Muslims?

Thu Nov 23, 2006 8:01 am

Quoting Art at ISP (Reply 30):
why is the Muslim world silent when it comes time to disavow these animals?

A couple of comments on this.

The media in the West tends to portray Muslims as all the same: violent, Western hating extremists, ALL 1 BILLION OF THEM. The media selects stories that support this stereotype time and again, which it does for many other stereotypes as well, by the way. Why, I don't know; maybe reducing people to cartoon type characters is the best way to appeal to a lowest common denominator of viewership. All my Muslim friends disavow the violence of terrorism, here in the US and abroad.

To the extent that one doesn't see more dissent anyway in the Muslim world, consider whether or not they live in countries that have freedom of expression or not, and whether or not we support their governments, whether they are repressive or not. Think Saudi Arabia, Iran under the Shah, Iraq in the 80's under Saddam, to name a few.
It is not enough to be rude; one must also be incorrect.
 
MEACEDAR
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RE: US Airways Closed To Muslims?

Thu Nov 23, 2006 8:03 am

Quoting Luisca (Reply 3):

All Muslims may not be terrorist, but the religion is used as an excuse for terrorism, and as such If I see 6 middle eastern passengers praying together before a flight and then sitting separately I would be suspicious too.

I agree 110%.
 
aviatortj
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RE: US Airways Closed To Muslims?

Thu Nov 23, 2006 8:04 am

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 35):

This is my country and I love it, but were not perfect.

Exactly.  checkmark 

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 35):
The crusades, European colonization of the world, the american slaughter of Native Americans, etc. How about the American attacks in the middle east? Sure weve gotten some terroist, but there have been many more innocent people have died. Many people consider the actions of the American Government to be terrorist.

True, but what has taken place and is as clear cut as what has taken place on airplanes. Again, I'm simply trying to play Devil's advocate here. I certainly do not think we can cut anybody off as 100% innocent.
 
Delta767300ER
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RE: US Airways Closed To Muslims?

Thu Nov 23, 2006 8:15 am

As a Delta fan, I have hostile feelings towards US Airways anyway but thats for a different thread.

Does that mean I can be arrested for having my Rosary and making the sign of the cross before boarding a flight? For the record, I am Episcopalian.

Orlando Int'l Airport (MCO) has a small Chapel inside of the Main Airside Terminal after the security checkpoint for Airside 1 and 3. I believe they have a Catholic mass on Sundays in the Chapel also. You cant go to the Chapel unless you are a ticketed passenger flying out of Airside 1 or 3.

On another note, I had to spend a night at MCO due to crappy ass America West Airlines cancelling my flight to Phoenix and I had to fly TWA at 5:30 AM via St. Louis and couldnt find a comfortable/quiet spot to doze off at. I decided to close the door and sleep in the chapel for a couple hours. Nobody bothered me.

Houston-Bush Intercontinental Airport also has a Chapel.
http://www.fly2houston.com/iahChapel

-Delta767300ER
 
D L X
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RE: US Airways Closed To Muslims?

Thu Nov 23, 2006 8:16 am

Quoting Art at ISP (Reply 30):
And there is little or no condemnation from the Islamic world when these animals strike.

There are two problems here:
First - you're not paying attention closely enough because...
Second - there aren't enough Muslims in America, even as they scream at the top of their lungs, to counterbalance the images and words spread by the media against them every day. Try life as a minority some day - it's an eye opener.

Quoting Travellin'man (Reply 33):
I can only sympathize with people who feel unfairly accused.

That's the truth. Let me tell you, if a white man is sitting around minding his business, and a flight attendant comes by and says "you must get off the plane because you're making other passengers uncomfortable," that white man will resist too. The only question that remains would be whether he would get handcuffed or not.

Quoting AviatorTJ (Reply 34):
The aircraft is not the place for it. Keep it to yourself.

I've heard nothing to suggest they were not keeping it to themselves. Seems to me that if you don't like people praying near you, maybe you should drive.
 
aviatortj
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RE: US Airways Closed To Muslims?

Thu Nov 23, 2006 8:18 am

Quoting Delta767300ER (Reply 39):
Does that mean I can be arrested for having my Rosary and making the sign of the cross before boarding a flight?

You should be if you are causing a scene and refuse to leave the aircraft. It doesn't matter if you are praying, yelling, or screaming. A disruption is a disruption.
 
28thguy
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RE: US Airways Closed To Muslims?

Thu Nov 23, 2006 8:22 am

Ann Coulter is saying that one of these passengers was quoted in the Arizona Republic newspaper in November 2001 denying that Bin Laden was involved in 9/11 attacks. (Arizona Republic is the primary newspaper in Phoenix, AZ.)

Sorry but these passengers don't sound like innocent victims to me. Sounds like they were there to stir up trouble, and taunt other passengers with discussion of 9/11 and U.S. policy in Iraq.

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=18180
 
Prinair
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RE: US Airways Closed To Muslims?

Thu Nov 23, 2006 8:23 am

I hate to say this (and I am not racist at all) but it is only the fault of the muslims themselves. Unfortunately the terrorist acts of a few weight upon all.
PRINAIR : Puerto Rico International Airlines
 
aviatortj
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RE: US Airways Closed To Muslims?

Thu Nov 23, 2006 8:28 am

Quoting D L X (Reply 40):

I've heard nothing to suggest they were not keeping it to themselves. Seems to me that if you don't like people praying near you, maybe you should drive.

No, if people need to pray and cause a scene, perhaps they should drive. The aircraft is not the place for it. And if they weren't keeping it to themselves why is it so many people were able to speak about it and express concern?
 
Bridogger6
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RE: US Airways Closed To Muslims?

Thu Nov 23, 2006 8:31 am

I work for US/HP in PHX and actually had a chance to speak to the captain of that flight. What he said sheds a bit more light on the situation rather than what the news chooses to report.

Before the flight, they were apparently somewhat rude to the gate agents and other passengers, being loud and creating a distraction. When they got on the plane, they refused to sit in their seats and were chanting "Praise Allah" loudly enough that the entire plane was able to hear them. When asked to sit and shush, they refused. The Captain then said he wanted them off the aircraft. They refused to leave, security was called and they were forcefully removed.

It's not just the fact that these passengers were praying, they were being inconsiderate and disruptful to other passengers AND the flight crew. If you can say you yourself wouldn't feel uneasy then more power to you.

Sure it sucks that we have to racially profile passengers, but since when have terrorists flown planes into buldings in the name of Jesus?
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: US Airways Closed To Muslims?

Thu Nov 23, 2006 8:35 am

Quoting 28thguy (Reply 42):
Ann Coulter is saying that one of these passengers was quoted in the Arizona Republic newspaper in November 2001 denying that Bin Laden was involved in 9/11 attacks. (Arizona Republic is the primary newspaper in Phoenix, AZ.)

YOURE QUOTEING ANN COULTER??????!!!!!!!! She is horrible!!! She is very biased and hardly a credable source for anything.
It is what it is...
 
travellin'man
Posts: 469
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RE: US Airways Closed To Muslims?

Thu Nov 23, 2006 8:35 am

Quoting 28thguy (Reply 42):
Ann Coulter is saying that one of these passengers was quoted in the Arizona Republic newspaper in November 2001 denying that Bin Laden was involved in 9/11 attacks.

That's his right to assert that. It doesn't mean he's a terrorist, or otherwise suspect. maybe he was just....wrong? Mind your source too. Coulter is hardly reliable for anything other than muckraking.

Quoting PRINAIR (Reply 43):
I hate to say this (and I am not racist at all) but it is only the fault of the muslims themselves. Unfortunately the terrorist acts of a few weight upon all.

Yes, you are a racist, because you appear proud of your wish to discriminate blindly. 19 murderous freaks who hijacked planes and 1 billion beople who want a good life for themselves, their families, their communities, just like you and me, are the same to you. That is an astonishing lack of judgment and understanding.
It is not enough to be rude; one must also be incorrect.
 
chgoflyer
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RE: US Airways Closed To Muslims?

Thu Nov 23, 2006 8:35 am

No, you don't understand. This does not apply to white people but it applies to non-whites in the eyes of white people. White person who speaks English is above reproach. Didn't you know that?


Have white english people hijack planes and Im sure US Air will give them a second look as well.
Will someone please wake me up in 4 years
 
aviatortj
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RE: US Airways Closed To Muslims?

Thu Nov 23, 2006 8:42 am

Quoting Bridogger6 (Reply 45):
It's not just the fact that these passengers were praying, they were being inconsiderate and disruptful to other passengers AND the flight crew. If you can say you yourself wouldn't feel uneasy then more power to you.

No way! You mean there was actually a reason to get thrown off the plane!? Here we thought US Airways was racist for doing this. People seem to pass over what actually happened. These guys were out to cause a scene and see how far they could take it. They want you to think they were praying in solitude. Wrong.