amirs
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Why Not Many BA To S. America

Thu Nov 23, 2006 10:29 pm

Why doesn't BA fly to places like ... Caracas, Bogota, Santiago, Lima, Montevideo
It seems they only fly to EZE, and Brazil.

Is it becuase they are leaving it to IB?
I would expect an airline like BA would try to offer better flights to S America and direct nonstop for the English.
 
Skidmarque
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RE: Why Not Many BA To S. America

Thu Nov 23, 2006 10:36 pm

BA, LAN, Iberia, all part of OneWorld. BA don't need to cover these places themselves.
DUCK !
 
challiday
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RE: Why Not Many BA To S. America

Thu Nov 23, 2006 10:37 pm

Quoting Amirs (Thread starter):
Is it becuase they are leaving it to IB?

and LAN
 
KLM685
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RE: Why Not Many BA To S. America

Thu Nov 23, 2006 10:40 pm

Quoting Amirs (Thread starter):
Is it becuase they are leaving it to IB?
I would expect an airline like BA would try to offer better flights to S America and direct nonstop for the English.

It is very probable that BA respect their One World partner and direct all BA passengers via Madrid with IB to South America. Probably that's the way they might be doing fine as they really haven't mentioned anything about expansion in Latin America, specially South America. Or I don't believe is worth that BA sends their own metal to those destinations.

South America is a big whole in their network given the world network they have.


Cheers!
KLM- The Best Airline in the World!
 
JAL
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RE: Why Not Many BA To S. America

Thu Nov 23, 2006 11:42 pm

No need for BA to fly to South America themselves with AA ; Lan and Iberia all strong in the region.
Work Hard But Play Harder
 
bongo
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RE: Why Not Many BA To S. America

Thu Nov 23, 2006 11:52 pm

Quoting Amirs (Thread starter):
Why doesn't BA fly to places like ... Caracas, Bogota

They used to fly to both CCS and Bog until aprox. 3 years ago. I just hope they come back since the COL market to Europe has been increasing during these years of absence.
MDE: First airport in the Americas visited by the A380!
 
hardiwv
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RE: Why Not Many BA To S. America

Thu Nov 23, 2006 11:54 pm

BA will increase LHR-GRU from daily B747 to 10 x week B747 starting 1 December 2006. IB already runs double daily MAD-GRU.

Rgs,
 
bongo
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RE: Why Not Many BA To S. America

Fri Nov 24, 2006 12:02 am

Quoting Amirs (Thread starter):
Is it becuase they are leaving it to IB?

BTW I really don´t understand why IB serves BOG with A340-300 and smaller markets such as LIM and SJO with A340-600, does anybody have any idea?
MDE: First airport in the Americas visited by the A380!
 
vv701
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RE: Why Not Many BA To S. America

Fri Nov 24, 2006 12:39 am

Quite surprisingly (at least to me) I can find only five South American destinations on BA's electronic timetable.

Three of the destinations - GIG, GRU and EZE - it serves itself with 744s.

It also lists SCL with a code share LAN A320 connecting flight at EZE.

The fifth destination listed is LIM. This connects a BA 744 flight at MIA with an AA A300 flight on the MIA-LIM leg.

Again quite surprisingly to both me and, no doubt from some of the replies above, others, they do not list any flights via MAD with IB flying the second leg.
 
challiday
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RE: Why Not Many BA To S. America

Fri Nov 24, 2006 1:00 am

Quoting VV701 (Reply 8):
they do not list any flights via MAD with IB flying the second leg.

We do, according to our Route Map on the ba.com site. Lima is listed as being via MAD

Perhaps our new route map on our oneworld site helps explain things a bit better.

OneWorld Route Map

[Edited 2006-11-23 17:05:36]
 
vv701
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RE: Why Not Many BA To S. America

Fri Nov 24, 2006 1:12 am

Quoting Challiday (Reply 9):
Quoting VV701 (Reply 8):
they do not list any flights via MAD with IB flying the second leg.

We do, according to our Route Map on the ba.com site. Lima is listed as being via MAD

Sorry. You misunderstood me. I checked the BA ELECTRONIC ON-LINE TIMETABLE for every day from today until next Wednesday. No, repeat no flight is listed to LIM via MAD. Everyday a connection with AA code share flight BA5037 at MIA is listed. Guess you need either to change your map or get an IB flight added to your timetable.
 
challiday
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RE: Why Not Many BA To S. America

Fri Nov 24, 2006 1:33 am

Quoting VV701 (Reply 10):
Guess you need either to change your map or get an IB flight added to your timetable.

Sorry about that mate, I got my wires crossed.

Your very right, we've been spending so much time on getting the site to launch that we have delayed on updating things such as the route map and timetable.

However all that being said, when routing through OneWorld partners BA will always try and route you through AA before any other member where and when it can do so effectively.
 
hardiwv
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RE: Why Not Many BA To S. America

Fri Nov 24, 2006 1:42 am

Quoting VV701 (Reply 8):
Three of the destinations - GIG, GRU and EZE - it serves itself with 744s.

GRU is the only nonstop destination.

Rgs,
 
jycarlisle
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RE: Why Not Many BA To S. America

Fri Nov 24, 2006 1:45 am

Quoting GBOAG (Reply 1):
BA, LAN, Iberia, all part of OneWorld. BA don't need to cover these places themselves.

Do British tourists also frequent other places than S. America?

Cheers,
Jeremy
"CHANGE IS: CLEAN PLANES AND DIRTY MARTINIS" (DL)
 
LipeGIG
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RE: Why Not Many BA To S. America

Fri Nov 24, 2006 2:18 am

Quoting VV701 (Reply 8):
Quite surprisingly (at least to me) I can find only five South American destinations on BA's electronic timetable.

Also to me ! It's a shame Rio and Buenos Aires among others doesn't keep a non-stop service to London.

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 6):
BA will increase LHR-GRU from daily B747 to 10 x week B747 starting 1 December 2006. IB already runs double daily MAD-GRU.

BA additional flights are seasonal and will run only till March 20, 2007. Virgin Atlantic holds the 7 unused frequencies and BA get the extra flights because VS postpone their flights UK-Brazil.

Quoting Amirs (Thread starter):
Why doesn't BA fly to places like ... Caracas, Bogota, Santiago, Lima, Montevideo
It seems they only fly to EZE, and Brazil.

Even some places in Brazil and EZE are very bad served. LH and BA seems to keep the same idea about South America.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
rootsair
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RE: Why Not Many BA To S. America

Fri Nov 24, 2006 2:25 am

Quoting Bongo (Reply 7):
smaller markets such as LIM and SJO with A340-600, does anybody have any idea?

because to BOG you have other choices. Avianca, Air France for example. however apart from IB we can only chose between Martinair(and the hell transit in the US) or Air Madrid so one sees very quickly what the best choice is. Hence many people fly with IB. However I'm sure both AV and AF are better than IB hence why they fly smaller A/c to BOG since less people want to fly IB
A man without the knowledge of his past history,culture and origins is like a tree without roots
 
LHR777
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RE: Why Not Many BA To S. America

Fri Nov 24, 2006 2:48 am

Quoting Bongo (Reply 5):
They used to fly to both CCS and Bog until aprox. 3 years ago.

The route was actually only withdrawn on February 6th, 2005, due to very poor yields. BA really did try with this route though - it was flown with a 744 ex LGW, then moved to LHR, downgraded to a 777, but still didn't make money, then it was tried with a 767-300ER, but still didn't make enough money. That's when the route was suspended. Quite sad really, after many years of BA service to both Venezuela and Colombia.
 
steve6666
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RE: Why Not Many BA To S. America

Fri Nov 24, 2006 2:55 am

Quoting VV701 (Reply 10):
No, repeat no flight is listed to LIM via MAD. Everyday a connection with AA code share flight BA5037 at MIA is listed.

Utter rubbish. I have flown to Lima from London and back seven times since June, twice on the American code share and twice on the IB code share. It's BA7233/IB6650.

FWIW, going on LAN through New York is much better than either of these options.
A306, A318, A319, A320, A321, A332, A333, A343, A346, A388, B722, B732, B733, B734, B735, B73G, B738, B742, B744, B752, B753, B762, B763, B764, B772, B773, B77W, B787-8, BAe-146, Cessna Something, DC-10, E175, E195, ERJ145, MD-11, MD-80, PA Something
 
Summa767
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RE: Why Not Many BA To S. America

Fri Nov 24, 2006 3:23 am

Quoting Bongo (Reply 5):
They used to fly to both CCS and Bog until aprox. 3 years ago. I just hope they come back since the COL market to Europe has been increasing during these years of absence.



Quoting LHR777 (Reply 16):
The route was actually only withdrawn on February 6th, 2005, due to very poor yields. BA really did try with this route though - it was flown with a 744 ex LGW, then moved to LHR, downgraded to a 777, but still didn't make money, then it was tried with a 767-300ER, but still didn't make enough money. That's when the route was suspended. Quite sad really, after many years of BA service to both Venezuela and Colombia.

Is it so tht they lost money? I can buy the low yields -or lower than they would have for Asia for instance, but actually losing money?

Since BA left the route, the Europe- South America market has grown a lot. I am sure that they would do fine. Still, since BA are so conservative, I hope that Virgin -a much more vibrant airline- will take advantage of the gap and start southamerican routes. They should realise that this region has the best prospects for aviation growth.
 
757MDE
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RE: Why Not Many BA To S. America

Fri Nov 24, 2006 3:30 am

Quoting Bongo (Reply 7):
BTW I really don´t understand why IB serves BOG with A340-300 and smaller markets such as LIM and SJO with A340-600, does anybody have any idea?

BOG is not always served by A340-300, I've seen A340-600 lots of times there, in fact, a german friend came to MDE from Munich via MAD and BOG and he flew the A340-600 in the MAD - BOG flight, he even got me a safety card.
Quisiera volveraamartevolveraquerertevolveratenertecerrrrcaademígirl! Mis ojos lloran porrr ti...
 
LHR777
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RE: Why Not Many BA To S. America

Fri Nov 24, 2006 5:36 am

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 18):
Is it so tht they lost money? I can buy the low yields -or lower than they would have for Asia for instance, but actually losing money?

Yes, it actually lost money. Gone are the days when BA flew routes just for the prestige of it. If the return on investment isn't there, then pull the route and assign the aircraft to something more profitable.

Funnily enough, I also flew on this service LGW-BOG-LGW back in 1999. It was on the 747-400, and was so full, I got bumped up to a very pleasant 60A in Club World on the upper deck on the return BOG-(CCS)-LGW! Problem was, it was full in economy, but very light at the premium-end of the aircraft. Sad really.

Does anyone know why AV also pulled their BOG-LHR non-stop? I flew that route twice on the 767-300ER and it was quite a nice service. I even recall eating a really tasty chicken korma and basmati rice, courtesy of SAS Catering at LHR. Quite an odd catering choice for a South American airline though....
 
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fxramper
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RE: Why Not Many BA To S. America

Fri Nov 24, 2006 5:50 am

AA owns S. America and they are codeshares with OneWorld.

I'm sure this has been stated above a few times...
 
bastew
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RE: Why Not Many BA To S. America

Fri Nov 24, 2006 5:50 am

I think BA will return to several latin american markets in the future.

As an airline, it is hugely important that BA itself has a worldwide network. Thats the reason why we still fly twice daily to SYD where our Oneworld alliance partner QF is based. Or, thrice daily to HKG where our Oneworld partner CX is based. The simple reason being that BA would rather the money go into it's own pocket than that of one of its partners. And also quite simply, many of BA's passengers want to fly BA and not a partner airline.

Alliane partners are still competitors when they fly on the same route. Where it can help it, BA would rather see a BA pasenger on a BA bird to OZ than a QF bird. Especially the Business market. BA doesn't want to sell one of their own passengers a seat on, for example, QF if it can avoid doing so. That passenger may then get a tate for QF (or CX or AA) and decide to use them on other routes where they would normally choose BA.

The economy in many of the Lat Am countries has really picked up over the last couple years and I think BA is eyeing many markets down there.

But the main problem we have is a lack of spare longhaul aircraft. To start a route to somewhere in Lat Am it would basically mean cancelling or reducing capacity on an existing route. Probably not a risk BA is likely to take until it receives some new planes.
 
trintocan
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RE: Why Not Many BA To S. America

Fri Nov 24, 2006 6:54 am

BA has indeed handed over much of its Latin American flying to its partners IB and AA. One destination which has not been so lucky, though, is GEO, Gerogetown in Guyana. Guyana was the only mainland South American territory of Britain until independence in 1966. BA used to fly there with 747s as a tag onto the LHR - ANU - BGI - POS services - the Jumbos must have been load-restricted due to the relatively short runways at GEO. I remember seeing the 747 there in 1978 - when I was very young! These flights ended in 1985. Guyana is thus left without services to its former mother country unlike neighbouring Suriname, which retains KL services to AMS and French Guiana, which is after all still part of France and has daily AF services to ORY.

TrinToCan.
Hop to it, fly for life!
 
Viscount724
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RE: Why Not Many BA To S. America

Fri Nov 24, 2006 7:48 am

Quoting Trintocan (Reply 23):
BA has indeed handed over much of its Latin American flying to its partners IB and AA.

BA also owns 10% of IB. They just bought AA's 1% stake in IB. Following from current issue of Aviation Week & Space Technology:

British Airways has bought American Airlines' remaining 1% share in Spanish flag carrier Iberia for £13 million ($24.6 million). This takes BA's stake to 10%.
 
757MDE
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RE: Why Not Many BA To S. America

Fri Nov 24, 2006 8:17 am

Quoting LHR777 (Reply 20):
Does anyone know why AV also pulled their BOG-LHR non-stop? I flew that route twice on the 767-300ER and it was quite a nice service. I even recall eating a really tasty chicken korma and basmati rice, courtesy of SAS Catering at LHR. Quite an odd catering choice for a South American airline though....

I think it had to do with their financial situation at the time.
Now that BA has gone that route could do good for AV, in fact I think they're working on it.
Are you sure it was with 767-300 and not 767-200? I don't know if the -300 would do it from BOG.

By the way, look what I found (sorry for the quality, taken with the webcam):

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g141/Avianca757/av1.jpg

Quisiera volveraamartevolveraquerertevolveratenertecerrrrcaademígirl! Mis ojos lloran porrr ti...
 
vv701
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RE: Why Not Many BA To S. America

Fri Nov 24, 2006 9:13 am

Quoting Steve6666 (Reply 17):
Quoting VV701 (Reply 10):
No, repeat no flight is listed to LIM via MAD. Everyday a connection with AA code share flight BA5037 at MIA is listed.

Utter rubbish.

You may think it utter rubbish. But it is true. Why not check it for yourself before pontificating? I repeat:

Quoting VV701 (Reply 10):
I checked the BA ELECTRONIC ON-LINE TIMETABLE for every day from today until next Wednesday. No, repeat no flight is listed to LIM via MAD. Everyday a connection with AA code share flight BA5037 at MIA is listed.


That is to say I checked flights on the timetable from LHR to LIM for 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29 and 30 November and 1 December. Each day showed BA207 (BA 744) LHR-MIA connecting with BA5037 (AA AB3) MIA-LIM. There is no flight listed for any of these days via MAD.
 
tomascubero
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RE: Why Not Many BA To S. America

Fri Nov 24, 2006 3:09 pm

Quoting Bongo (Reply 7):
BTW I really don�t understand why IB serves BOG with A340-300 and smaller markets such as LIM and SJO with A340-600, does anybody have any idea?

As correctly stated by Rootsair, BOG and LIM have better choices to ge to Europe but believe it or not, all IB's flights to SJO are more or less packed since nobody want to fly Air Madrid (understandable) or Martinair which offer the hell connection in Miami or Orlando and are 80% about 3-4 hours late most of the time.

And IB does send the A346 to BOG, LIM and even UIO/GYE at times, the A346 is obviously the immediate replacement for the A343 which happened here in SJO when they brought the A343 and of course now switched to a daily A346 and I had heard rumours of a second frequency into SJO as well. You have to remember that IB literally dominates the Europe demand for all of Central America and theirselves covering the three biggest markets in CA, Guatemala, Costa Rica and Panama.
 
2travel2know
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RE: Why Not Many BA To S. America

Fri Nov 24, 2006 4:17 pm

Quoting Trintocan (Reply 23):
BA has indeed handed over much of its Latin American flying to its partners IB and AA. One destination which has not been so lucky, though, is GEO, Gerogetown in Guyana.

That's surely a Southamerican destination that BA OneWorld partner IB won't be flying to.
Strange they've not returned there and now the only decent one-stop way to get from the U.K. to GEO is via POS. Maybe someday in the future BA could make a come-back overthere (mostlikely from LGW), what I don't see is GEO as a stop enroute to a Southamerican destination like LIM or SCL, even if I rekon MAO could be an interesting tag-on for the cargo.
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
richcandy
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RE: Why Not Many BA To S. America

Fri Nov 24, 2006 5:58 pm

Hi

BA appear to do very well on their LHR-GRU//GIG//EZE services. They are not regularly included in special offer sales. Maybe it’s a bit like LOS. They don't have that many seats but what they do have makes money.

Rich
 
StarGoldLHR
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RE: Why Not Many BA To S. America

Fri Nov 24, 2006 6:51 pm

BA is shy of competition.

If they cannot make a route work, they pull it rather than fight for it.
Thats why they continue to shrink whilst the others expand.

There's no where near enough competition to south america and air fares are higher per mile here from the UK than anywhere else...

5000 miles to south america will cost you average £800,
5000 miles to West Coast US will cost you average £500.

BA could reduce the fare, up the advertising and put pressure on the competition...
or pull the route and put on yet another £400 yielding NY Daily... that will go 60% full but costs marginally less and requires less effort... but hey the planes being used and makes almost nothing... but it's a less yielding safer bet.
So far in 2008 45 flights and Gold already. JFK, IAD, LGA, SIN, HKG, NRT, AKL, PPT, LAX still to book ! Home Airport LCY
 
hardiwv
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RE: Why Not Many BA To S. America

Fri Nov 24, 2006 8:25 pm

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 30):
There's no where near enough competition to south america and air fares are higher per mile here from the UK than anywhere else...

5000 miles to south america will cost you average £800,
5000 miles to West Coast US will cost you average £500.

BA is interested in the high-yielding segment.

US flights fill the premium front seats. That's why BA only operates GRU nonstop in South America, and indeed will increase flights to 10 weekly: premium seats sell extremelly well in GRU.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 14):
BA additional flights are seasonal and will run only till March 20, 2007. Virgin Atlantic holds the 7 unused frequencies and BA get the extra flights because VS postpone their flights UK-Brazil.

If VS postpones flights again I'm sure BA will ask for authority to keep GRU 10 weekly nonstop. BA is doing extremely well in GRU and could even operate twice daily. GRU is one of BA best performing business and first class markets.

Rgs,
 
LipeGIG
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RE: Why Not Many BA To S. America

Fri Nov 24, 2006 8:48 pm

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 31):
If VS postpones flights again I'm sure BA will ask for authority to keep GRU 10 weekly nonstop. BA is doing extremely well in GRU and could even operate twice daily. GRU is one of BA best performing business and first class markets.

Agree with you, and i doubt VS could begin the flight during the first 9 months of 2007.
BA could run a flight LHR-GIG-EZE, improving both markets and giving additional room for GRU market. It could also block VS attempt.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
steve6666
Posts: 449
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RE: Why Not Many BA To S. America

Fri Nov 24, 2006 8:49 pm

Quoting VV701 (Reply 26):
That is to say I checked flights on the timetable from LHR to LIM for 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29 and 30 November and 1 December. Each day showed BA207 (BA 744) LHR-MIA connecting with BA5037 (AA AB3) MIA-LIM. There is no flight listed for any of these days via MAD.

Actually mate I did. Found the Madrid connection no problem.

I repeat, I have been on the Iberia code share between Lima and Madrid twice in the last two months. It is BA7233/7232. As have countless other people from my firm and several firms of Investment Bankers and Lawyers as we have been doing the IPO of a mining company based in Lima.

But then, what do we know? We've only been on the flight and you've played on the internet.
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hardiwv
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RE: Why Not Many BA To S. America

Fri Nov 24, 2006 8:51 pm

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 32):
BA could run a flight LHR-GIG-EZE, improving both markets and giving additional room for GRU market. It could also block VS attempt.

Agree. BA could then keep LHR-GRU daily dedicated B747 and operate LHR-GIG-EZE B747 3/4 weekly, and therefore pre-empt any chance of VS taking a slice of its market. BA could also ask for 5th freem EZE-GIG, which is a market currently more interesting than saturated GRU-EZE.

Rgs,
 
bogota
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RE: Why Not Many BA To S. America

Fri Nov 24, 2006 9:02 pm

I am still to meet any BA frequent flier that would switch to IB on its way to Europe as to stay on oneworld. Both American Airlines and their old and ugly A300 and IB and their terrible service do no good to the alliance out of BOG. Maybe that is why AF went from 5 to daily non stop services out of here the moment BA pulled out.

BA had several problems that lead them to unprofitable business like the mudslides and the general strike in Venezuela which made the airline do a double stop at CCS and BGI for months on its way from BOG to London, which scared away plenty of pax who went to other airlines that would offer non stop services from either CCS or BOG.
 
bastew
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RE: Why Not Many BA To S. America

Fri Nov 24, 2006 9:16 pm

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 30):
BA is shy of competition.

If they cannot make a route work, they pull it rather than fight for it.
Thats why they continue to shrink whilst the others expand.

BA is not shrinking at all. There is a huge difference between competing on a route you know you can make money from versus flogging a dead horse.

With only scarce resources (aircraft) any new route unfortunately comes at the cost of an existing one.

For example, MEL was not profitable and BA needed an extra 747 for additional India flights. Is it better to slash fares on the MEL route and compete with the likes of MH/SQ/EK etc etc for a small slice of the pie or simply redeploy the resources where they know they can make money?
 
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par13del
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RE: Why Not Many BA To S. America

Fri Nov 24, 2006 9:31 pm

TrintoCan in reply 23 listed what I think is the main issue with BA serving the Latin America market. Guyana and Belize are really the only two colonies Britain had on the South American continent proper, historical ties are therefore low. Pure business oppertunity would then have to drive service to the continent, and so far, history has shown that it has not been that profitable for BA.

What would provide a good look into BA route's structure would be a UK official travel survey, which shows the countries where UK residents travel to, regardless of carrier, I'm certain the travel routes of UK residents in large part drives BA route structure.
 
pacifique75
Posts: 105
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RE: Why Not Many BA To S. America

Fri Nov 24, 2006 9:40 pm

Regarding flights to Rio being routed LHR-GIG-EZE, maybe it would be somehow complex for crewing...I am just guessing, as a friend of mine who flies for BA tells me they always have 3 S.Paulo-based cabin crew on brazilian flights. Also, flew 3 times to GIG with BA and GRU-GIG leg was always empty!
 
bastew
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RE: Why Not Many BA To S. America

Fri Nov 24, 2006 9:49 pm

Quoting Pacifique75 (Reply 38):
Regarding flights to Rio being routed LHR-GIG-EZE, maybe it would be somehow complex for crewing...I am just guessing,

Thats right, on the LHR - GRU - LHR flights and GRU - GIG - GRU flights we get GRU based crew. Typically 3 on the GRU - GIG - GRU flights. 3 on the GRU - LHR - GRU sector if the flight is originating/terminating in GIG. Or 2 GRU based plus 1 EZE based on the LHR - GRU - LHR sector if the flight is originating/terminating in EZE. On the GRU - EZE - GRU sectors we get 3 EZE based crew in place of the 3 GRU based crew.

The crewing pattern for the remaining LHR based crew is: Day 1: Leave London PM. Day 2: Arrive GRU AM. Day 3: Free of duty in GRU. Day 4: Fly to GIG in the morning, go to a hotel in Copacabana for breakfast/lunch then fly back to GRU in the afternoon. Day 5: Depart GRU in the evening Day 6: Arrive LHR in the morning.
 
hardiwv
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RE: Why Not Many BA To S. America

Fri Nov 24, 2006 10:35 pm

Quoting Pacifique75 (Reply 38):
Also, flew 3 times to GIG with BA and GRU-GIG leg was always empty!

It would be interesting to get precise loads information of BA in GIG and EZE, however, all this crew rotation must be very expensive, and it shows that BA does not want to axe both GIG and EZE, and that both do provide a certain degreed of returns to the airline so as to keep them in their network.

If flights to GIG and EZE are always empty BA could simply stop operating these destinations...BUT....There is no doubt that BA makes a very good profit in GRU. BA's landmine is in GRU and I would not be surprised that if they have a chance they could go for 10 weekly and later double daily GRU nonstop. I did not dispute this fact.

Quoting BAStew (Reply 39):
Thats right, on the LHR - GRU - LHR flights and GRU - GIG - GRU flights we get GRU based crew. Typically 3 on the GRU - GIG - GRU flights. 3 on the GRU - LHR - GRU sector if the flight is originating/terminating in GIG. Or 2 GRU based plus 1 EZE based on the LHR - GRU - LHR sector if the flight is originating/terminating in EZE. On the GRU - EZE - GRU sectors we get 3 EZE based crew in place of the 3 GRU based crew.

The crewing pattern for the remaining LHR based crew is: Day 1: Leave London PM. Day 2: Arrive GRU AM. Day 3: Free of duty in GRU. Day 4: Fly to GIG in the morning, go to a hotel in Copacabana for breakfast/lunch then fly back to GRU in the afternoon. Day 5: Depart GRU in the evening Day 6: Arrive LHR in the morning.

Tks for the very interesting information.

Rgs,
 
pacifique75
Posts: 105
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2006 2:20 am

RE: Why Not Many BA To S. America

Fri Nov 24, 2006 10:41 pm

BAStew, thanks for the interesting info ref crew rotation on the BA brazilian trips! My friend used to be on the longhaul fleet but has now transferred to
shorthaul.
 
bastew
Posts: 742
Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2006 9:21 pm

RE: Why Not Many BA To S. America

Fri Nov 24, 2006 10:52 pm

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 40):
It would be interesting to get precise loads information of BA in GIG and EZE, however, all this crew rotation must be very expensive, and it shows that BA does not want to axe both GIG and EZE, and that both do provide a certain degreed of returns to the airline so as to keep them in their network.

Flights London - sao paulo - london tend to be pretty much constantly full.

We have local traffic rights GRU - EZE - GRU, so those flights tend to be fairly busy as well.

As far as I know we have no local traffic rights GRU - GIG - GRU but the flights do tend to be busy (especially in World Traveller) as the route only operates twice weekly.

I really believe that as soon as BA has the aircraft, we will return to EZE direct from london. It is the jumbo with the large Club cabin that flies the route and the Club and First cabins have very good loads.

Quoting Pacifique75 (Reply 41):
BAStew, thanks for the interesting info ref crew rotation on the BA brazilian trips!

A pleasure!  Smile
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

RE: Why Not Many BA To S. America

Fri Nov 24, 2006 11:22 pm

Quoting BAStew (Reply 42):
As far as I know we have no local traffic rights GRU - GIG - GRU but the flights do tend to be busy (especially in World Traveller) as the route only operates twice weekly.

Correct, however, the leg GRU-GIG operates 3 x week and not 2 x week. EZE-GRU operates 4 x week. You can expect less pax on EZE-GRU since capacity GRU-EZE has been increasing substantially over recent weeks.

Quoting BAStew (Reply 42):
I really believe that as soon as BA has the aircraft, we will return to EZE direct from london. It is the jumbo with the large Club cabin that flies the route and the Club and First cabins have very good loads.

Or as said above LHR-GIG-EZE.

Quoting BAStew (Reply 42):
Flights London - sao paulo - london tend to be pretty much constantly full.

GRU is one of BA's most profitable destinations worldwide, especially with regard to premium traffic. It explains why BA will increase GRU to 10 weekly starting 1 December 2006.

Rgs,
 
2travel2know
Posts: 2236
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2005 7:05 am

RE: Why Not Many BA To S. America

Sat Nov 25, 2006 12:08 am

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 43):
Correct, however, the leg GRU-GIG operates 3 x week and not 2 x week. EZE-GRU operates 4 x week. You can expect less pax on EZE-GRU since capacity GRU-EZE has been increasing substantially over recent weeks.

If LHR-GRU is so profitable, why then BA doesn't fly LGW-GIG-EZE instead of having those GRU-GIG and GRU-EZE tag-ons? As of why LGW-GIG-EZE and not LHR, with all do respect, neither GIG nor EZE compares to GRU when it comes to business travelers, leave those LHR to the premium business passengers.
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
pacifique75
Posts: 105
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2006 2:20 am

RE: Why Not Many BA To S. America

Sat Nov 25, 2006 12:12 am

It will be interesting to see if BA load factors will be, in any way, affected by TAMs debut in the UK market. Besides, I heard in S.Paulo last week while on holiday with brazilian friends who work at GRU that it is rumoured about Varig resuming flights to LHR!? As for TAM, flew with them about 15 times and they are simply a great airline with impeccable service!
 
dellatorre
Posts: 864
Joined: Sat May 13, 2000 2:50 pm

RE: Why Not Many BA To S. America

Sat Nov 25, 2006 1:04 am

I think people in this forum are forgetting just one thing. Apart from JJ & RG which is set to resume services next year, NO other South American airline fly to London. I know AV flew once but that was years ago!

I guess the market isn't simply there! While Brazil & probably Argentina can sustain flights to UK, the other countries don't really have at the moment potencial for it! If so, LA would start flights to London where they could benefit from connections to other European destinations.

AR is simply too weak (having troubles with JFK). Their MAD hub, operated by sister airline Air PLus Comet is quite enough! LA faces demand restrictions when it comes to expanding beyond Spain. AV would fall under short of aircraft and perhaps would go to CDG before, as they keep close ties with Skyteam! That's it!!! No one left!

Unless something extraordinary happens on the next yeras, I don't see this scenario changing.

I was forgetting on thing! The lack of available slots at LHR doesn't really help either!!!
 
richcandy
Posts: 623
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2001 4:49 pm

RE: Why Not Many BA To S. America

Sat Nov 25, 2006 1:05 am

Hi

We were told by a RG rep at World Travel Market that RG would restart their London flights in November. There are only a few days left in November so I guess this will not happen.

JJ have some very good fares in business class and when I looked at Feb they were busy.

Rich
 
dellatorre
Posts: 864
Joined: Sat May 13, 2000 2:50 pm

RE: Why Not Many BA To S. America

Sat Nov 25, 2006 1:13 am

Quoting Richcandy (Reply 47):
We were told by a RG rep at World Travel Market that RG would restart their London flights in November. There are only a few days left in November so I guess this will not happen.

You still believe in what they say??!!
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

RE: Why Not Many BA To S. America

Sat Nov 25, 2006 1:27 am

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 44):
why then BA doesn't fly LGW-GIG-EZE instead of having those GRU-GIG and GRU-EZE tag-ons?



Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 44):
As of why LGW-GIG-EZE and not LHR, with all do respect, neither GIG nor EZE compares to GRU when it comes to business travelers, leave those LHR to the premium business passengers.

Agree with your statements. LGW-GIG-EZE would make more sense indeed. No doubt GRU deserves LHR service.

Quoting Pacifique75 (Reply 45):
As for TAM, flew with them about 15 times and they are simply a great airline with impeccable service!

Agree 100%. But I do think TAM has to revamp its business and first class.

Quoting Pacifique75 (Reply 45):
It will be interesting to see if BA load factors will be, in any way, affected by TAMs debut in the UK market. Besides, I heard in S.Paulo last week while on holiday with brazilian friends who work at GRU that it is rumoured about Varig resuming flights to LHR!?

UK-Brazil market is very strong. There are even rumours of TAM second daily GRU-LHR flight for late 2007.

About RG, it could be. It is said RG will resume MAD and LHR, but I still doubt it since RG now does not have feed pax from Brazil anymore. I think TAM second daily GRU-LHR has more chance.

Quoting Dellatorre (Reply 46):
I think people in this forum are forgetting just one thing. Apart from JJ & RG which is set to resume services next year, NO other South American airline fly to London

Correct.

Rgs,