albird87
Posts: 566
Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2006 7:15 am

Will There Ever Be 737LR's

Fri Nov 24, 2006 8:28 pm

Hey
Just was thinking to myself this morning about the 757s that now do a lot of transatlantic flights to the US. Now i was then thinkin about the end of the 757 in production (a real shame i think) and then seeing how boeing have just made the new 737NG's are nearly the size of the 757. My first question is that will boeing maybe try and make a 737 that could possibly do the transatlantic flights? (of course im only thinkin of to the east coast of the US). Is the 737 actually at its limits of expansion due to weight and fuel tank issues?
Also if boeing could make this 737(LR) would then the LLC maybe look into the long haul sector? I mean it would be a real sight to see an easyjet or ryanair aircraft in BOS or JFK!!!
Im guessing the actual stop to this theory would actually be that it wouldnt be cheaper than flying BA as there would be less seats and cost per seat would be greater???
Would like to hear your thought on the point.
 
dutchjet
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RE: Will There Ever Be 737LR's

Fri Nov 24, 2006 8:41 pm

Well there is the 737-700ER (ordered by ANA) and teh BBJ1/2 used by Privatair for certain transatlantic all biz class flights.

While long and thin routes can be interesting, the economics are tough, unless the yeilds are good, its hard to make money on long routes with limited demand and small airplanes. Its also difficult to install interntional standard F and J cabins on smaller airplanes (and as the products improve further, its even more difficult) and the J cabin takes up so much space, little room remains for Y seating. There is also the cargo issue to thing about, cargo revenue is an important component for longhaul services, and hauling cargo on a small plane that needs lots of space for fuel is tough. The economic issues make low capcity longhaul routes problematic, thus dont look for 100 pax airplanes flying lots of new longhaul routes in the future.

With all of that being said......the 737 successor (Y1) will come in various sizes with various range options, and the most capable variants of the Y1 are expected to have atleast 4000 miles in range to cover the 752 market. Thus, there likely will be low capacity longhaul airliner from Boeing in the future......not the 737LR but the Y1-ER or LR.
 
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solnabo
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RE: Will There Ever Be 737LR's

Fri Nov 24, 2006 9:09 pm

Lion Air orders for 30 B737-900ER, 5,900 km´s?? I would call that a 737LR..

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Oykie
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RE: Will There Ever Be 737LR's

Fri Nov 24, 2006 10:08 pm

I think the benefits for 737LR is underestimated. People want to go point, to point and I believe that the market for this segment is underestimated.

The 737-700ER will seat 126 passengers and has a range of up to 5510 nautical mile. The problem here IMO is the lack of enough cargo space. Just about 6 cubic meters. Will all 126 passengers be able to have their suitcase checked in with a relatively small cargo space? Anyway the 737-700ER should open up some new markets.
Dream no small dream; it lacks magic. Dream large, then go make that dream real - Donald Douglas
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: Will There Ever Be 737LR's

Fri Nov 24, 2006 11:45 pm

The thing is, the smaller the plan and the longer the flight, the higher the costs and subsequently ticket prices get. It works out nicely on 757s, but what's below the 757's seating capacity? Currently, BBJs or ACJs in a Biz-only layout, like Privatair, on business-intensive routes. No doubt there could be routes where a 737-sized plane could fly as a longhaul plane with 2 classes, but there's not that many.
 
Boeing Nut
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RE: Will There Ever Be 737LR's

Sat Nov 25, 2006 3:25 am

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/737family/737-700ER/background.html

Quoting OyKIE (Reply 3):
I think the benefits for 737LR is underestimated. People want to go point, to point and I believe that the market for this segment is underestimated.

I totally agree.

Although it's extreeeemely doubtful you'll see a low cost carrier use the 737ER, I firmly believe that you could see an airline use it in a two or hell, even three class layout with premium seating for those long thin routes.
I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.
 
Rj111
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RE: Will There Ever Be 737LR's

Sat Nov 25, 2006 4:11 am

Quoting OyKIE (Reply 3):
I think the benefits for 737LR is underestimated. People want to go point, to point and I believe that the market for this segment is underestimated.

The problem is the CASM starts to get poor over long distances becasue you're carrying heavy fuel throughout the whole flight, to fly that extra however many miles at the end. And you'll need more fuel to get that far with a heavier plane in the first place.

Ok, aircraft fly more than 5000nm but they bigger and scale wise, aren't flying as far. A 737 flying 5000nm is like a 747 flying 15000nm.
 
Australia1
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RE: Will There Ever Be 737LR's

Sat Nov 25, 2006 7:42 am

already are !!!

They're called Embraer 170/175/190/195 !!!

That's why Jetblue & Virgin Blue have bought them as can do a vast array of routes long, short & thin.
 
dutchjet
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RE: Will There Ever Be 737LR's

Sat Nov 25, 2006 7:48 am

Quoting Australia1 (Reply 7):
already are !!!

They're called Embraer 170/175/190/195 !!!

That's why Jetblue & Virgin Blue have bought them as can do a vast array of routes long, short & thin.

While the E-jets are very nice airplanes......I think that the original post was questioning why Boeing does not develop a 737LR variant with a 5000-6000 mile range to handle longhaul thin routes.
 
jimyvr
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Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 1:08 pm

RE: Will There Ever Be 737LR's

Sat Nov 25, 2006 8:00 am

737LR? probably in consideration for the future 737RS project. Otherwise 737-700ER can be considered as 737LR.

737-800ERX at the meantime is under study, by the way.
1000 - 01MAR07 | http://airlineroute.blogspot.com/
 
albird87
Posts: 566
Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2006 7:15 am

RE: Will There Ever Be 737LR's

Sat Nov 25, 2006 8:44 am

Quoting Jimyvr (Reply 9):
737-800ERX at the meantime is under study, by the way.

Interesting..... thanks for the details. I have to beleive that it seems that the 737 is then at its end of modifications and boeing need a brand new design of an aircraft then. Perhads the 7X7 will use the technology of the 787 and make these smaller planes be able to travel 6000 miles and also have wider cargo holds for pallets...... we will just have to see what happens at the boeing drawing board....
 
jc2354
Posts: 601
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RE: Will There Ever Be 737LR's

Sat Nov 25, 2006 9:38 pm

Perhaps with Air Canada starting A319 transatlantic service, Boeing will come up with some quick fixes
If not now, then when?
 
centrair
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RE: Will There Ever Be 737LR's

Sat Nov 25, 2006 9:47 pm

Point to Point is really big. Having a plane that can fly trans-atlantic from a hub to a point or point to point is nice but the yield is tricky.

Though NH has ordered the 737-700ER, they will be flying it only on NGO-China routes. No trans-pac or even far over water. The planes will be in a business and a new Y+ config. They are specifically for new destinations in China where business travelers need to go and ANA can make money.

I would hope that Y1 will cover the 120 to 200 market. Sure would be nice if it could replace the 737 and the 757.
Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!

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