kl911
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A380 Air Worthiness Certificate 13 Dec!

Fri Nov 24, 2006 11:50 pm

The A380 is undergoing the final series of tests with the Rolls Royce engines. It flew over Dubai last week on its way to China. Then it will fly to Johannesburg from where it will cross the South Pole to Sydney. On its final leg, the superjumbo will fly from Vancouver to Toulouse via the North Pole.

"By December 13, we expect to receive the Air Worthiness Certificate from both US regulators Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) and the European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA)."

In essence, this means that the aircraft model is certified and technically fit for commercial flights.

Airbus has so far assembled 26 A380s as part of the delivery plan, in which the engineers will have to re-wire the cables as per the certification. Despite the cancellation of 10 A380Fs by Federal Express, the new firm orders for the superjumbo now stands at 166, up from 159.



To see the rest: http://www.gulfnews.com/business/Aviation/10084827.html
 
jdevora
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RE: A380 Air Worthiness Certificate 13 Dec!

Sat Nov 25, 2006 4:17 am

Quote:
Despite the cancellation of 10 A380Fs by Federal Express, the new firm orders for the superjumbo now stands at 166, up from 159.

Where come those 7 (or 17 if you take away the FeEx orders) from?

Cheers
JD
 
kl911
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RE: A380 Air Worthiness Certificate 13 Dec!

Sat Nov 25, 2006 4:32 am

If they get the certificate dec 13, why would the first plane not fly commercially before the end of 2007 as is stated in other articles?

KL911
 
osiris30
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RE: A380 Air Worthiness Certificate 13 Dec!

Sat Nov 25, 2006 4:34 am

Quoting KL911 (Reply 2):
If they get the certificate dec 13, why would the first plane not fly commercially before the end of 2007 as is stated in other articles?

Type certification != production certification.. and we haven't heard boo about production certification yet.
I don't care what you think of my opinion. It's my opinion, so have a nice day :)
 
kl911
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RE: A380 Air Worthiness Certificate 13 Dec!

Sat Nov 25, 2006 4:36 am

Quoting Osiris30 (Reply 3):
Type certification != production certification.. and we haven't heard boo about production certification yet.

What's the difference?

from the article:

''In essence, this means that the aircraft model is certified and technically fit for commercial flights.''''
 
brendows
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RE: A380 Air Worthiness Certificate 13 Dec!

Sat Nov 25, 2006 4:42 am

Quoting Jdevora (Reply 1):
Where come those 7 (or 17 if you take away the FeEx orders) from?

Eight conversions of options from Qantas, and nine conversions of options from SQ, for a total of 17 new orders (7 if you subtract FX.)
 
osiris30
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RE: A380 Air Worthiness Certificate 13 Dec!

Sat Nov 25, 2006 4:45 am

Quoting KL911 (Reply 4):
''In essence, this means that the aircraft model is certified and technically fit for commercial flights.''''

Correct. The a380 is 'safe' to carry commercial traffic, but Airbus isn't 'safe' to manufacture them reliably.

The production certifcate is required if you want to sell the Aircraft without needing a full review of each frame off the line (and by full review I mean audit.. VERY VERY VERY time consuming).

So the 380 as tested is a safe frame/design. However, Airbus isn't able to sell anything off the line (without the aforementioned audit) until they get the production certificate. The reason is that Airbus needs to guarantee that what comes off the line is within tolerances of the tested(certified) frame.

I'm generalizing all the above.. you should check the FAA and related sites for specifics.
I don't care what you think of my opinion. It's my opinion, so have a nice day :)
 
osiris30
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RE: A380 Air Worthiness Certificate 13 Dec!

Sat Nov 25, 2006 4:45 am

Quoting Brendows (Reply 5):
Eight conversions of options from Qantas, and nine conversions of options from SQ, for a total of 17 new orders (7 if you subtract FX.)

SQ is still an LOI is it not?
I don't care what you think of my opinion. It's my opinion, so have a nice day :)
 
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Stitch
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RE: A380 Air Worthiness Certificate 13 Dec!

Sat Nov 25, 2006 4:49 am

Quoting Jdevora (Reply 1):
Where come those 7 (or 17 if you take away the FeEx orders) from?

The article could be counting SQ's add-on LoI as firm orders?

Quoting KL911 (Reply 2):
If they get the certificate dec 13, why would the first plane not fly commercially before the end of 2007 as is stated in other articles?

In a nutshell, Airbus has been flying around a "generic" interior cabin and this cabin will be certified. It's important in that it proves the HVAC, life-support, plumbing and other passenger systems work, which are generic to any customer configuration (more or less).

However, each airline's individual configuration will need to be certified. Right now, SQ's bird outfitted in their specific cabin configuration is being re-wired in TLS. Once that is complete, then it will need to be certified. Once that certification is complete, then SQ can take delivery. And right now, the re-wiring and cabin certification program is not expected to be completed until late 2007.
 
brendows
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RE: A380 Air Worthiness Certificate 13 Dec!

Sat Nov 25, 2006 5:03 am

Quoting Osiris30 (Reply 7):
SQ is still an LOI is it not?

Indeed, it is, but I was just trying to show how Gulfnews came to 166 orders. They are obviously not distinguishing orders and commitments (well, the cancellation hasn't shown up in Airbus' order books yet either.)
Through the 31st of October, Airbus has 159 orders for the A380, and that won't change before the 7th of December.
 
osiris30
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RE: A380 Air Worthiness Certificate 13 Dec!

Sat Nov 25, 2006 5:07 am

Quoting Brendows (Reply 9):
Indeed, it is, but I was just trying to show how Gulfnews came to 166 orders.

NP.. just wanted to clarify something hadn't changed that I missed.
I don't care what you think of my opinion. It's my opinion, so have a nice day :)
 
Alessandro
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RE: A380 Air Worthiness Certificate 13 Dec!

Sat Nov 25, 2006 5:47 am

26 A380s? I only seen 8 of the flying, so far 2300 hours and 740 cycles,
goal is 2500 hours before certification. 16 countries visited so far....
From New Yorqatar to Califarbia...
 
brendows
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RE: A380 Air Worthiness Certificate 13 Dec!

Sat Nov 25, 2006 6:02 am

Quoting Alessandro (Reply 11):
26 A380s? I only seen 8 of the flying,

I believe that refers to 26 frames that have been through major assembly, and not 26 fully completed (and ready for flight) aircraft.
 
brendows
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RE: A380 Air Worthiness Certificate 13 Dec!

Sat Nov 25, 2006 6:05 am

Quoting Osiris30 (Reply 10):
NP.. just wanted to clarify something hadn't changed that I missed.

Nah, you haven't, at least not from what I have seen  Wink
 
jdevora
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RE: A380 Air Worthiness Certificate 13 Dec!

Sat Nov 25, 2006 6:12 am

Quoting Brendows (Reply 9):
Indeed, it is, but I was just trying to show how Gulfnews came to 166 orders. They are obviously not distinguishing orders and commitments (well, the cancellation hasn't shown up in Airbus' order books yet either.)

Could it be that the orders are already firm and Airbus told them the unoficial count to date? because I just saw the 166 in biz.yahoo well: Airbus Superjumbo Heads Home After China Visits; Local Market Outlook Seen As Mixed

Quote:

Despite world-leading growth in China's aircraft market, just five of Airbus's 166 orders for the A380 have come from China

Cheers
JD
 
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par13del
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RE: A380 Air Worthiness Certificate 13 Dec!

Sat Nov 25, 2006 6:21 am

Does the wing loading failure test factor into this certification? Airbus made adjustments and wanted those adjustments accepted without having to break a new wing, whats the status on that?
 
AirframeAS
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RE: A380 Air Worthiness Certificate 13 Dec!

Sat Nov 25, 2006 6:21 am

Quoting KL911 (Thread starter):
In essence, this means that the aircraft model is certified and technically fit for commercial flights.

That is a very misleading statement, IMO.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
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Stitch
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RE: A380 Air Worthiness Certificate 13 Dec!

Sat Nov 25, 2006 7:17 am

Quoting Par13del (Reply 15):
Does the wing loading failure test factor into this certification? Airbus made adjustments and wanted those adjustments accepted without having to break a new wing, whats the status on that?

Last I heard was the FEM (Finite Element Modeling) was accepted and a second wing-break test was not required.
 
jacobin777
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RE: A380 Air Worthiness Certificate 13 Dec!

Sat Nov 25, 2006 7:20 am

Quoting Par13del (Reply 15):
Does the wing loading failure test factor into this certification? Airbus made adjustments and wanted those adjustments accepted without having to break a new wing, whats the status on that?

Adjusted the FEM, added some stringers and what not..good to go, no additional testing needed...... thumbsup 
"Up the Irons!"
 
Boogyjay
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RE: A380 Air Worthiness Certificate 13 Dec!

Sat Nov 25, 2006 10:07 pm

Something at the end of the article drew my attention :

Quote:
He said the aircraft is performing much better than expected. "It has the quietest cabin developed ever, with fuel efficiency 17 per cent better than the B747-800," he added.

What is that ?

  • New figures ?
  • Old news that I'm not aware of ?
  • A typo from the journalist as it would have been 'B747-400' ?


Thanks for the responses.
 
leelaw
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RE: A380 Air Worthiness Certificate 13 Dec!

Sat Nov 25, 2006 10:30 pm

Quoting Brendows (Reply 12):
Quoting Alessandro (Reply 11):
26 A380s? I only seen 8 of the flying,

I believe that refers to 26 frames that have been through major assembly, and not 26 fully completed (and ready for flight) aircraft

See also:

http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3109918/

http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3113882/
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
ltbewr
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RE: A380 Air Worthiness Certificate 13 Dec!

Sat Nov 25, 2006 10:37 pm

This will be one of the most important milestones that the A-380 has to make to be able to deliver. Let us hope it will happen at the planned date.
If the USA FAA has to certify, then how come the A-380 has not seen the USA airports little if at all, even though it will be a critical place for them to go to when in service? Come on Airbus, fly the A-380 soon for airport tests to IAD, JFK, LAX, SEA, DIA (for high altitude) and so on so us Americans can see it.
 
trex8
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RE: A380 Air Worthiness Certificate 13 Dec!

Sat Nov 25, 2006 10:47 pm

does an OEM have to fly to the US to get FAA cert? Doesn't the FAA pretty much accept JAA cert, unless there are some regulatory discrepancies between the two agencies rules?
 
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RayChuang
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RE: A380 Air Worthiness Certificate 13 Dec!

Sat Nov 25, 2006 10:59 pm

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 21):
If the USA FAA has to certify, then how come the A-380 has not seen the USA airports little if at all, even though it will be a critical place for them to go to when in service?

I'm hoping that some time in the first three months of 2007 we'll see the A380-800 test plane(s) in the USA. The likely destinations for flight tests: JFK, MIA, SFO and LAX. SFO probably wants to try out the A380 at its 80 x 80 meter gates at Concourses A and G.

[Edited 2006-11-25 15:04:28]
 
Alessandro
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RE: A380 Air Worthiness Certificate 13 Dec!

Sat Nov 25, 2006 11:03 pm

Ray do you mean 2007?
From New Yorqatar to Califarbia...
 
trex8
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RE: A380 Air Worthiness Certificate 13 Dec!

Sat Nov 25, 2006 11:05 pm

Quoting Alessandro (Reply 24):
Ray do you mean 2007?

no, he's on A380 production standard time  Smile
 
OldAeroGuy
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RE: A380 Air Worthiness Certificate 13 Dec!

Sat Nov 25, 2006 11:09 pm

Quoting Trex8 (Reply 22):
Doesn't the FAA pretty much accept JAA cert, unless there are some regulatory discrepancies between the two agencies rules?

EASA has replaced the JAA as the European Cert agency.

Please see Reply 26 in the link below for a short discussion of the FAA/EASA Cert relationship.

http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eral_aviation/read.main/3090612/1/
Airplane design is easy, the difficulty is getting them to fly - Barnes Wallis
 
skyhawk62507
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RE: A380 Air Worthiness Certificate 13 Dec!

Sat Nov 25, 2006 11:39 pm

Quoting Osiris30 (Reply 3):
Type certification != production certification.. and we haven't heard boo about production certification yet.

Exactly. It's even more difficult to earn production cert than it is to get type certification... and earning a TC is hardly a walk in the park.

On a much smaller scale than the A380, this is the issue Eclipse is having with its E500 very light jet -- the airframe and technology has proven sound, but until production cert is granted the FAA needs to inspect every airframe before releasing it to the customer (something that, to date, hasn't been achieved).

Niggling issues have delayed the Eclipse PC even further... now magnify that situation 100 times, and you have the A380.

Congrats to Airbus when it earns the A380 type-certificate. But until Airbus can actually build the things with FAA and EASA blessing, it's only noteworthy to the Airbus PR department.
 
corey07850
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RE: A380 Air Worthiness Certificate 13 Dec!

Sat Nov 25, 2006 11:51 pm

Question: Where is Airbus going to keep all these A380's that they're apparently cranking out (working on 26 already?) if within the next year only 1 will be delivered?
 
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Stitch
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RE: A380 Air Worthiness Certificate 13 Dec!

Sun Nov 26, 2006 12:32 am

Quoting Corey07850 (Reply 28):
Question: Where is Airbus going to keep all these A380's that they're apparently cranking out (working on 26 already?) if within the next year only 1 will be delivered?

On the tarmacs at Toulouse and Hamburg, I imagine.