mauriceb
Posts: 2150
Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2004 2:50 am

AF-KL To Place Joint Order In Future

Sat Nov 25, 2006 11:19 pm

KLM CEO leo van wijk today told that AF-KL will place a joint order for medium haul planes in the future . He says it will be either the 737 replacement with Boeing, or the NSR (new short rang) from Airbus.

The Order will most probably be around 400 frames! to replace the current 220 planes they want to replace, and for major expension.

He told that both planes wont fly before mid-next decenium.

He also sayd that the first priority is to replace the regional fleet, currently under investigation.


source: www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl (only dutch)
 
flyboyaz
Posts: 2077
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2003 11:32 am

RE: AF-KL To Place Joint Order In Future

Sat Nov 25, 2006 11:52 pm

Do they plan on operating independently for good? I'm sure there's a lot of national pride involved...just wasn't sure how it was working out.
Catch a ride on a smile!
 
mauriceb
Posts: 2150
Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2004 2:50 am

RE: AF-KL To Place Joint Order In Future

Sun Nov 26, 2006 12:03 am

Quote:
Do they plan on operating independently for good? I'm sure there's a lot of national pride involved...just wasn't sure how it was working out.


KLM will keep its name untill atleast 2009, after that, and especially when AZ will join, they will probably operate under one name.

Most of the future orders will be orderd together, saving them maintenance costs, trainings cost etc...

so no, they won't operate independently
 
flyboyaz
Posts: 2077
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2003 11:32 am

RE: AF-KL To Place Joint Order In Future

Sun Nov 26, 2006 12:05 am

Ah ok...thanks! Do they use the same reservation system? Sorry for all the questions...just not that familiar with them.
Catch a ride on a smile!
 
Johnny
Posts: 812
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2008 1:38 am

RE: AF-KL To Place Joint Order In Future

Sun Nov 26, 2006 12:11 am

Isn´t that exactly what i said in another KLM-Thread some weeks ago?

They will order only one short/medium-airplane-family and will not operate two like today.


Johnny
 
Morvious
Posts: 637
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2005 8:36 pm

RE: AF-KL To Place Joint Order In Future

Sun Nov 26, 2006 12:45 am

Well, things can change though, but its going to be a long wait before that happens..

Will be a boring sight at Schiphol though!
have a good day, Stefan van Hierden
 
Johnny
Posts: 812
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2008 1:38 am

RE: AF-KL To Place Joint Order In Future

Sun Nov 26, 2006 12:47 am

@ Morvious

Agree, it will be boring! And i guess they will change the livery in some years time as well...

Johnny
 
JRadier
Posts: 3944
Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2004 11:36 pm

RE: AF-KL To Place Joint Order In Future

Sun Nov 26, 2006 1:12 am

Quoting MauriceB (Reply 2):
they will probably operate under one name.

Note: this is pure speculation (nothing wrong with that) and has NOT been confirmed by AF/KL.

Quoting Flyboyaz (Reply 3):
Ah ok...thanks! Do they use the same reservation system? Sorry for all the questions...just not that familiar with them.

At this moment it are different systems
For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and ther
 
cloudyapple
Posts: 1261
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2005 7:01 am

RE: AF-KL To Place Joint Order In Future

Sun Nov 26, 2006 1:14 am

Quoting MauriceB (Reply 2):
will probably operate under one name.

I cannot imagine any of the 3 countries each with its own big ego and patriotic population see their flag carriers lose their names to become a generic airline with a generic name.
A310/A319/20/21/A332/3/A343/6/A388/B732/5/7/8/B742/S/4/B752/B763/B772/3/W/E145/J41/MD11/83/90
 
mauriceb
Posts: 2150
Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2004 2:50 am

RE: AF-KL To Place Joint Order In Future

Sun Nov 26, 2006 3:19 am

Quoting JRadier (Reply 7):
Quoting Flyboyaz (Reply 3):
Ah ok...thanks! Do they use the same reservation system? Sorry for all the questions...just not that familiar with them.


At this moment it are different systems

No it isn't, both work with amadeus Jurgen...
 
JRadier
Posts: 3944
Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2004 11:36 pm

RE: AF-KL To Place Joint Order In Future

Sun Nov 26, 2006 3:29 am

Quoting MauriceB (Reply 9):

No it isn't, both work with amadeus Jurgen...

my bad, I didn't know they already switched. I knew it before it went public, but wasn't sure they already changed it.
For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and ther
 
mauriceb
Posts: 2150
Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2004 2:50 am

RE: AF-KL To Place Joint Order In Future

Sun Nov 26, 2006 3:34 am

Quoting JRadier (Reply 10):
my bad, I didn't know they already switched. I knew it before it went public, but wasn't sure they already changed it.

hehe no prob.
 
Morvious
Posts: 637
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2005 8:36 pm

RE: AF-KL To Place Joint Order In Future

Sun Nov 26, 2006 6:29 pm

Quoting Cloudyapple (Reply 8):
I cannot imagine any of the 3 countries each with its own big ego and patriotic population see their flag carriers lose their names to become a generic airline with a generic name.

I agree. KL and maybe later on Alitalia don't have to much to say though, but I never see Air France dropping its name. Whould be an expensive mistake.
have a good day, Stefan van Hierden
 
HB-IWC
Posts: 4033
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2000 1:09 am

RE: AF-KL To Place Joint Order In Future

Sun Nov 26, 2006 7:53 pm

Quoting JRadier (Reply 7):
At this moment it are different systems



Quoting MauriceB (Reply 9):
No it isn't, both work with amadeus Jurgen...

The switch hasn't happened yet. KLM will join Air France's Reservation systems, which fall under the broader Amadeus umbrella, in March 2007 only. So, for the time being, KLM and Air France are still working under different reservation systems.
 
runway23
Posts: 1947
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 2:12 am

RE: AF-KL To Place Joint Order In Future

Sun Nov 26, 2006 7:59 pm

Quoting MauriceB (Reply 9):
No it isn't, both work with amadeus Jurgen...

Actually as far as I know the switch hasn't been made yet for KLM.

KLM should still be on Galileo right now with the switch to Amadeus being made early next year.
 
Thorben
Posts: 2713
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2005 10:29 pm

RE: AF-KL To Place Joint Order In Future

Sun Nov 26, 2006 8:00 pm

I suppose the first joint order will be for a long-range plane, either 787 or A350. Will be interesting to see what they'll go for, and whether that will already include getting some for AZ.
France 1789; Eastern Germany 1989; Tunisia 2011; Egypt 2011
 
Lufthansa747
Posts: 2953
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 7:45 am

RE: AF-KL To Place Joint Order In Future

Sun Nov 26, 2006 8:07 pm

Quoting MauriceB (Reply 9):
No it isn't, both work with amadeus Jurgen

As said above, I believe KL is with their inhouse system (CORDA?)+Galileo for the time being.
Air Asia Super Elite, Cebu Pacific Titanium
 
petertenthije
Posts: 3309
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2001 10:00 pm

RE: AF-KL To Place Joint Order In Future

Sun Nov 26, 2006 8:39 pm

Quoting Thorben (Reply 15):
I suppose the first joint order will be for a long-range plane, either 787 or A350.

Would not bet on that. Both KLM and AF have 777s and 330s in their fleet that are still very modern. At least KLM has more on order of both types, not sure about AF. First thing that needs replacement are the regional fleets. This was also mentioned in the article quoted by the thread starter.
Attamottamotta!
 
LY777
Posts: 2299
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2005 6:58 pm

RE: AF-KL To Place Joint Order In Future

Sun Nov 26, 2006 8:49 pm

I think it will be the end of the 737NG for KLM.They will replace them with new A32S if AF and KLM place a joint order
Flown:717,727,732,734,735,738,73W,742/744/748,752,762/2ER/763/3ER,772/77E/773/77W, 788, D8,D10,L1011, A3B2,A320,A321,A332,A343,A388
 
FCKC
Posts: 1631
Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2004 9:39 pm

RE: AF-KL To Place Joint Order In Future

Sun Nov 26, 2006 9:41 pm

The very first common order will be either 787 or A350XWB , as already mentionned some days ago.
 
kappel
Posts: 1836
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2005 6:48 pm

RE: AF-KL To Place Joint Order In Future

Sun Nov 26, 2006 11:35 pm

Quoting Petertenthije (Reply 17):
Would not bet on that. Both KLM and AF have 777s and 330s in their fleet that are still very modern. At least KLM has more on order of both types, not sure about AF. First thing that needs replacement are the regional fleets. This was also mentioned in the article quoted by the thread starter.

Yes, but KLM has the MD11 to replace from 2012 (or 2015) on, and IIRC in that same time-period AF may want to replace the a343's. So a joint a350/b787 is very likely to be the first.
L1011,733,734,73G,738,743,744,752,763,772,77W,DC855,DC863,DC930,DC950,MD11,MD88,306,319,320,321,343,346,ARJ85,CR7,E195
 
User avatar
par13del
Posts: 6720
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 9:14 pm

RE: AF-KL To Place Joint Order In Future

Sun Nov 26, 2006 11:49 pm

Now would be a good time to look back at what the reason was for the merger and how the combined company would achieve savings and increase share holders value, profitability, efficiency, etc. etc. etc.
 
Thorben
Posts: 2713
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2005 10:29 pm

RE: AF-KL To Place Joint Order In Future

Sun Nov 26, 2006 11:53 pm

Quoting Kappel (Reply 20):
Quoting Petertenthije (Reply 17):
Would not bet on that. Both KLM and AF have 777s and 330s in their fleet that are still very modern. At least KLM has more on order of both types, not sure about AF. First thing that needs replacement are the regional fleets. This was also mentioned in the article quoted by the thread starter.

Yes, but KLM has the MD11 to replace from 2012 (or 2015) on, and IIRC in that same time-period AF may want to replace the a343's. So a joint a350/b787 is very likely to be the first.

I agree, the 787 or A350s are not available for several years. At that time (2012 and later), some MD-11s, A343s, and 772s will be pretty old.
France 1789; Eastern Germany 1989; Tunisia 2011; Egypt 2011
 
Morvious
Posts: 637
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2005 8:36 pm

RE: AF-KL To Place Joint Order In Future

Mon Nov 27, 2006 12:37 am

Quoting LY777 (Reply 18):
I think it will be the end of the 737NG for KLM.They will replace them with new A32S if AF and KLM place a joint order

I thought KLM did place an order for new NG's to replace older 737 models. Was it a rumour of KLM or did they really announced it a while back?
If so, whats the sence of it if you are already looking for a re-replacement then?
have a good day, Stefan van Hierden
 
mauriceb
Posts: 2150
Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2004 2:50 am

RE: AF-KL To Place Joint Order In Future

Mon Nov 27, 2006 12:45 am

Quote:
I thought KLM did place an order for new NG's to replace older 737 models. Was it a rumour of KLM or did they really announced it a while back?

8 737-800W's, orderd last week, you can check it on the boeing website..

People say it will be the end of the 737NG's at KL's fleet, but it will also be the end of A320's in AF's fleet, since both boeing and Airbus are most likely to build a whole new plane instead of updating the 737's and A320's
 
User avatar
Buyantukhaa
Posts: 2301
Joined: Thu May 13, 2004 5:33 am

RE: AF-KL To Place Joint Order In Future

Mon Nov 27, 2006 1:13 am

Quoting MauriceB (Reply 2):
and especially when AZ will join

You mean IF they will join!
I scratch my head, therefore I am.
 
JRadier
Posts: 3944
Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2004 11:36 pm

RE: AF-KL To Place Joint Order In Future

Mon Nov 27, 2006 1:39 am

Quoting Lufthansa747 (Reply 16):
I believe KL is with their inhouse system (CORDA?)

CORDA is KLM as well, but I think you mean CODECO (COmputerized DEparture COntrol)
For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and ther
 
AMSSFO
Posts: 912
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2005 8:42 am

RE: AF-KL To Place Joint Order In Future

Mon Nov 27, 2006 1:50 am

Quoting Morvious (Reply 23):
I thought KLM did place an order for new NG's to replace older 737 models. Was it a rumour of KLM or did they really announced it a while back?
If so, whats the sence of it if you are already looking for a re-replacement then?

6 B737-800 were ordered.
B and A first need to develop and launch the replacements for B737 and A320 resp before AF/KLM can decide and order any of them. This announcement is nothing more than a plan to place a joint order in the long-term (> 5 years). KLM needs more planes much sooner. Very slowly AF and KLM converge to one company, although this will take many many years. First they will integrate their cargo ops, then they will place joint orders. In 10-15 yeras they might consider to integrate their pax ops.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos