Thorben
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A380 Problems Solved, 17% Better Than 747-8.

Sun Nov 26, 2006 5:10 am

Sources:

http://archive.gulfnews.com/articles/06/11/24/10084827.html

In German:

http://www.aero.de/news.php?varnewsid=1697

Main points:

Airbus claims to have solved the wiring issue, new A380 delivery dates will be met. (OK, but we have heard that before.) The delegation of engineers from EK sent to TLS was very happy with what they saw.

26 A380s have been assembled so far. (Without the cabin, I suppose).

Performance is better than expected, the 747-8 will be beaten in fuel efficiency by 17%. (How do they know?)

The A380 has the quietest cabin ever.
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Johnny
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RE: A380 Problems Solved, 17% Better Than 747-8.

Sun Nov 26, 2006 5:33 am

17 Percent? That is impossible!

If they would have said 17percent/seat over the B744 i would agree without any doubts.

Johnny
 
Thorben
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RE: A380 Problems Solved, 17% Better Than 747-8.

Sun Nov 26, 2006 5:37 am

Quoting Johnny (Reply 2):
17 Percent? That is impossible!

If they would have said 17percent/seat over the B744 i would agree without any doubts.

I supposed that's what they mean. Given that the A380 is much larger, a per-seat comparison is the only one that makes sense.

But anyway, the 747-8 only exists on the paper, it is not even decided whether it will be 74 or 76 meters long, so this prediction is not more than hot air.
France 1789; Eastern Germany 1989; Tunisia 2011; Egypt 2011
 
LHStarAlliance
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RE: A380 Problems Solved, 17% Better Than 747-8.

Sun Nov 26, 2006 5:39 am

Quoting Thorben (Thread starter):
Performance is better than expected, the 747-8 will be beaten in fuel efficiency by 17%

Wow! That´s much , a good reason to order the 380 instead of the 748...

The 380 is a great A/C , best technology , just production problems have produced delays ... So we will see many more orders .

I say you in 3-4 years the 380 will be a best seller  Big grin

But I also hope for some 748I orders , the 747 can´t disappear from sky ...
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slz396
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RE: A380 Problems Solved, 17% Better Than 747-8.

Sun Nov 26, 2006 5:39 am

Quoting Johnny (Reply 2):
17 Percent? That is impossible! If they would have said 17percent/seat over the B744 i would agree without any doubts.

Well since Keith Stonestreet specificly mentioned fuel efficiency (i.e what you do with the fuel) and not fuel consumption like you seem to have read, I take it he is talking on a 'per seat' basis.
 
Johnny
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RE: A380 Problems Solved, 17% Better Than 747-8.

Sun Nov 26, 2006 5:41 am

@ Slz396

I repeat it: 17percent better than the B748I is impossible!

Johnny
 
threepoint
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RE: A380 Problems Solved, 17% Better Than 747-8.

Sun Nov 26, 2006 5:47 am

Quoting Johnny (Reply 8):
I repeat it: 17percent better than the B748I is impossible!

Only due to the fact that the 748I consumes no fuel - it being a paper aircraft. Perhaps we should wait until we have more solid data to comment on, rather than early predictions.
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dutchjet
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RE: A380 Problems Solved, 17% Better Than 747-8.

Sun Nov 26, 2006 5:48 am

Its a miracle, praise the lord.....

Lets see some real numbers from Airbus itself before we get overexcited.....one has to doubt a PR piece coming out of Dubai, the home of EK, the airline with the most A380s on order.

I have no doubt that Airbus will get the A380 right and fix its problems....but these overoptimistic numbers and other nonsense have got to stop if anyone is going to take any of this seriously..
 
slz396
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RE: A380 Problems Solved, 17% Better Than 747-8.

Sun Nov 26, 2006 5:55 am

Quoting Johnny (Reply 8):
I repeat it: 17percent better than the B748I is impossible!

are you refering to the title then, because otherwise I've lost you...

I agree it should be amended to: A380 wiring problems solved, 17% more fuel efficient than 748i.
 
LHStarAlliance
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RE: A380 Problems Solved, 17% Better Than 747-8.

Sun Nov 26, 2006 5:55 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 10):
one has to doubt a PR piece coming out of Dubai, the home of EK, the airline with the most A380s on order.

It´s possible PR , but I don´t think such a big&important company is lying , they have too much trouble behind to start doing stupid things... and they know this...
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dutchjet
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RE: A380 Problems Solved, 17% Better Than 747-8.

Sun Nov 26, 2006 6:01 am

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 12):
It´s possible PR , but I don´t think such a big&important company is lying

I am impressed with your faith in Airbus.......after everything that has occured with the A380 program. I am a skeptic and am looking forward to seeing some hard numbers. The 17% figure is an impressive one, but what exactly does it mean? We have no idea how the 17% number was computed, thus, its nothing more than ""Spin"" and PR at the point.
 
boeingfever777
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RE: A380 Problems Solved, 17% Better Than 747-8.

Sun Nov 26, 2006 6:03 am

Quoting Thorben (Thread starter):

Performance is better than expected, the 747-8 will be beaten in fuel efficiency by 17%

What a joke... You think Airbus would learn to shut-up about the A380 and all it's issues until the damn thing is flying revenue flights. I doubt seriously 17% overall.

Quoting Thorben (Thread starter):
The A380 has the quietest cabin ever.

Again how do they know this? More hot air!

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 6):
So we will see many more orders .

Doubtful, A380 is a nitch market plane and it's market size is very small.
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slz396
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RE: A380 Problems Solved, 17% Better Than 747-8.

Sun Nov 26, 2006 6:16 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 13):
The 17% figure is an impressive one.

Assuming it is indeed 17% better on fuel per seat as I suppose it is (what else could 'fuel efficiency' mean?), I don't think it is that of a spectacular number.

Let's just do a rough evaluation of the numbers, to check them off :

The A380 was supposed to beat the 747-400 by 20% on a fuel/seat basis from the start.

All information from the engine manufacturers and Airbus has constantly hinted at a lower than expected fuel burn for the A380, which -although it has always been questioned as being 'unclear and unspecific information' can lead us to the idea the A380's real improvement over the 747-400 in fuel burn per seat is somewhere around 21 or 22%.

Now, given the fact we are now comparing not to the 747-400 but the 747-8, this should be reduced by whatever margin of improvement the 748 brings.

I suppose Airbus -quite fairly- uses a pax configuration for the 747-8 which is based on the same comfort levels for the individual pax as for their A380 (meaning less than the high pax numbers Boeing uses for their 748), so the real improvement from the 748 over the 744 could be as low as 5%, which is in line with what re-engining a plane normally brings as step forward....
 
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solnabo
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RE: A380 Problems Solved, 17% Better Than 747-8.

Sun Nov 26, 2006 6:18 am

Sometimes I really like hot air  Wink Just let 17% be the right number though I doubt it ´cus 748i is a paper plane and B are working hard to get 787 ready 2008..

Is it really 26 A380 assembled? Yikees...

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SJCRRPAX
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RE: A380 Problems Solved, 17% Better Than 747-8.

Sun Nov 26, 2006 6:39 am

I guess Boeing will need to update their brochure where they claim 14% better CASM.

http://www.boeing.com/randy/pdf/747AdvCard.pdf
 
Rj111
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RE: A380 Problems Solved, 17% Better Than 747-8.

Sun Nov 26, 2006 6:49 am

Aircraft manufacturer in a releasing doctored figures shocker!  Wow!
 
art
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RE: A380 Problems Solved, 17% Better Than 747-8.

Sun Nov 26, 2006 6:59 am

Quoting BoeingFever777 (Reply 14):
Quoting Thorben (Thread starter):
The A380 has the quietest cabin ever.

Again how do they know this? More hot air!

Could they perhaps have measured the noise level in the cabin and compared it to that of other aircraft?
 
speedbird128
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RE: A380 Problems Solved, 17% Better Than 747-8.

Sun Nov 26, 2006 7:04 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 10):
has to doubt a PR piece coming out of Dubai, the home of EK

Well after their PR departments had lots to say when all was not rosy, I then take this to be good news.

Quoting Art (Reply 20):
Quoting BoeingFever777 (Reply 14):
Quoting Thorben (Thread starter):
The A380 has the quietest cabin ever.

Again how do they know this? More hot air!

Could they perhaps have measured the noise level in the cabin and compared it to that of other aircraft?

Quite! It's not rocket science.
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eraugrad02
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RE: A380 Problems Solved, 17% Better Than 747-8.

Sun Nov 26, 2006 7:08 am

I wanna wait and read boeings response to all of this. I hope someone orders it soon. The 767 continues to recieve orders why cant a the 747? I'm waiting though. Does anyone have concrete info on some 747-8i potential orders? make a seperate thread for us to read since this is an a380 thread and we should respect it as such.
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speedbird128
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RE: A380 Problems Solved, 17% Better Than 747-8.

Sun Nov 26, 2006 7:10 am

Quoting ERAUgrad02 (Reply 22):
why cant a the 747

777-300ER is why - in my opinion. Etihad operate it at 378pax, and EK around 410-420pax I believe. Why would one need a 747, with these sort of figures?
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Scorpio
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RE: A380 Problems Solved, 17% Better Than 747-8.

Sun Nov 26, 2006 7:10 am

Quoting BoeingFever777 (Reply 14):
Again how do they know this? More hot air!

You see, they have these nifty little things called decibel meters...

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 15):
The A380 was supposed to beat the 747-400 by 20% on a fuel/seat basis from the start.

Actually, it was supposed to be 'between 15 and 20%' more fuel efficient.

Quoting Jwenting (Reply 17):
It's the only product they have in the A380 family that's working better than expected.

I'm sure you will enlighten us, Mr. Wenting, as to which are the other products in the A380 family that are, as you appear to be insinuating, not performing 'better than expected'...

Quoting Solnabo (Reply 16):
Is it really 26 A380 assembled? Yikees...

I doubt it, it seems to have been some misquote by gulfnews. The German article mentions that they are currently working on 26 planes, which seems a lot more plausible. If indeed 26 had been assembled, Toulouse would have A380s lying around all over the place, and that isn't the case.

[Edited 2006-11-25 23:12:36]
 
gbfra
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RE: A380 Problems Solved, 17% Better Than 747-8.

Sun Nov 26, 2006 7:15 am

I could imagine that Airbus has learned from airlines what Boeing is offering for the B748.

Even if the B748 doesn't exist yet Boeing is trying hard to sell the plane to various airlines. In this case Boeing has to deliver data for the B748 to these airlines.

The fact that Boeing hasn't published recent details about the B748 doesn't mean that such data do not exist for insiders.
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LHStarAlliance
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RE: A380 Problems Solved, 17% Better Than 747-8.

Sun Nov 26, 2006 7:17 am

Quoting BoeingFever777 (Reply 14):
Doubtful, A380 is a nitch market plane and it's market size is very small.

this is what boeing says...
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Ruscoe
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RE: A380 Problems Solved, 17% Better Than 747-8.

Sun Nov 26, 2006 7:17 am

Boeings claim of 20% lower trip costs make sense to me. Smaller craft with engines even more advanced than those on the 380. In the configuration which Qantas and Singapore are using, they will have about 20% more seats than 748i.

I know you can't add % but we can get in the correct ballpark, and thats all we've got, but in rough terms seat mile costs of the 380 and 748 should be fairly similar, which really is bad considering the 380 was designed 40 years after the 747.

The 380 will really shine when the airlines jam people in like Sardines in a can, and they will, and be no more comfortable than any other craft, but then it has a chance to sell.

I agree about the foot in mouth.

Ruscoe
 
slz396
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RE: A380 Problems Solved, 17% Better Than 747-8.

Sun Nov 26, 2006 7:38 am

Quoting Ruscoe (Reply 27):
Boeings claim of 20% lower trip costs make sense to me.

Of course it does! it is a smaller plane. Which is why you need to look on a per seat basis...

Quoting Ruscoe (Reply 27):
The 380 will really shine when the airlines jam people in like Sardines in a can, and they will, and be no more comfortable than any other craft, but then it has a chance to sell.

I think that when you compare the seat count of the 748 vs that of the A380 and have a look at the available floor space of both planes, you'll soon see which of the 2 is cramming pax in like sardines to prop up its seat count in an ultimate effort to get better CASM.

Fact is that when you want similar comfort levels on the 748 as on the A380 (a given number of seats per square meter), the seat count of the 748i needs to be significantly reduced from what Boeing constantly uses to make their calculations. I think this is what was done here by Airbus and in that case you indeed end up with a number like the one we have seen quoted in the article. I have a strong feeling it is also the reason why the 748I has been turned down by QF and SQ over more A380s for instance: unless the 748I is flown in some sort of cattle class, it simply can't match the fuel efficiency of the A380.
 
dw747400
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RE: A380 Problems Solved, 17% Better Than 747-8.

Sun Nov 26, 2006 7:45 am

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 26):
this is what boeing says...

Just like 17% is what Airbus says.
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leelaw
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RE: A380 Problems Solved, 17% Better Than 747-8.

Sun Nov 26, 2006 7:47 am

Quoting Solnabo (Reply 16):
Is it really 26 A380 assembled?

Doubtful, more like 13 or 14 airframes assembled at this point. See also:

http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3109918/

http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3113882/
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Rbgso
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RE: A380 Problems Solved, 17% Better Than 747-8.

Sun Nov 26, 2006 8:23 am

Well, it's been a hell of a month for Airbus. The A380 suddenly dropped 5.5 tons almost overnight, all A380 wiring issues have been solved, 26 A380 frames have been assembled (where are they hiding these things?), the A380 apparently sips fuel like an old lady sips tea, John L. has suddenly reappeared with his rapier wit intact, and all A380 customers are tickled to death and falling over each other to order more.....

I knew the boys at Airbus would solve their problems, but this is incredible!
 
Ruscoe
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RE: A380 Problems Solved, 17% Better Than 747-8.

Sun Nov 26, 2006 8:30 am

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 28):
Quoting Ruscoe (Reply 27):
Boeings claim of 20% lower trip costs make sense to me.

Of course it does! it is a smaller plane. Which is why you need to look on a per seat basis...

Yes, that is why I mentioned that the 380 carries 20% more and thus seat mole costs are likely to be similar.

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 28):
think that when you compare the seat count of the 748 vs that of the A380 and have a look at the available floor space of both planes, you'll soon see which of the 2 is cramming pax in like sardines to prop up its seat count in an ultimate effort to get better CASM.

This is actually a minus for the 380, more floor space per pax means lugging around more non revenue weight.

Ruscoe
 
Thorben
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RE: A380 Problems Solved, 17% Better Than 747-8.

Sun Nov 26, 2006 8:34 am

Quoting Ruscoe (Reply 32):
This is actually a minus for the 380, more floor space per pax means lugging around more non revenue weight.

More comfort for the passengers also means that they can pay a higher price. If you give the same space per pax in a 747-8, the pax figure would be so low that the CASM would be beyond good and evil.
France 1789; Eastern Germany 1989; Tunisia 2011; Egypt 2011
 
ncelhr
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RE: A380 Problems Solved, 17% Better Than 747-8.

Sun Nov 26, 2006 8:39 am

Quoting Solnabo (Reply 16):
Is it really 26 A380 assembled? Yikees...

Like everybody says, I'm doubtful that many have been assembled.

They'd better hire a few more electricians to get all that wiring installed. Blimey!
 
dutchjet
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RE: A380 Problems Solved, 17% Better Than 747-8.

Sun Nov 26, 2006 8:39 am

Quoting Rbgso (Reply 31):
Well, it's been a hell of a month for Airbus. The A380 suddenly dropped 5.5 tons almost overnight, all A380 wiring issues have been solved, 26 A380 frames have been assembled (where are they hiding these things?), the A380 apparently sips fuel like an old lady sips tea, John L. has suddenly reappeared with his rapier wit intact, and all A380 customers are tickled to death and falling over each other to order more.....

I knew the boys at Airbus would solve their problems, but this is incredible!

As they say, when something sounds too good to be true, it usually is........some posters above stated that they want to hear what Boeing has to say about all of this, I would just like to hear what AIRBUS has to say, as I said above, the info is based on on a ""chit-chat"" type article from a business type publication in Dubai, so we have no idea how accurate the article or information really is.

And, where is Airbus hiding those 26 completed but unwired airplanes mentioned in the article......maybe we can organize an a.net road trip to go take a look!
 
Thorben
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RE: A380 Problems Solved, 17% Better Than 747-8.

Sun Nov 26, 2006 8:45 am

Concerning those 26 planes. The German source says Airbus is "working on 26 planes", which seems more realistic. However, 5 are already flying, some more might be done but without engines, others sitting still in the assembly hall. I suppose it means that 26 A380 are already done or in the factory at TLS, their parts are there, but they are surely not all completely assembled.
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leelaw
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RE: A380 Problems Solved, 17% Better Than 747-8.

Sun Nov 26, 2006 8:54 am

Quoting Thorben (Reply 36):
However, 5 are already flying,

Actually, eight aircraft have flown 001, 002, 003, 004, 005, 006, 007, & 009, although only 001, 002, 004, & 009 have been flying on a regular basis in the flight-test program, the remainder are in various stages of rewiring, mostly at XFW.
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Zkpilot
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RE: A380 Problems Solved, 17% Better Than 747-8.

Sun Nov 26, 2006 8:58 am

Quoting Rbgso (Reply 31):
Well, it's been a hell of a month for Airbus. The A380 suddenly dropped 5.5 tons almost overnight, all A380 wiring issues have been solved, 26 A380 frames have been assembled (where are they hiding these things?), the A380 apparently sips fuel like an old lady sips tea, John L. has suddenly reappeared with his rapier wit intact, and all A380 customers are tickled to death and falling over each other to order more.....

I knew the boys at Airbus would solve their problems, but this is incredible!

 rotfl  nice one  Wink
I do hope that the Whalejet is successful, as much as I prefer Boeing to Airbus when it comes to longhaul the aviation world would be boring without decent competition that Airbus provides.

One thing I have noticed is that I have not heard a single thing about the A380-900 in the past year or so... has Airbus dropped plans for this or are they just waiting to get all the issues with the -800 sorted first? Still seems kinda strange that they haven't said anything at all about it... Afterall the -900 will be the aircraft with the massive advantage in CASM.
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JayinKitsap
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RE: A380 Problems Solved, 17% Better Than 747-8.

Sun Nov 26, 2006 8:58 am

Quoting Thorben (Thread starter):
26 A380s have been assembled so far. (Without the cabin, I suppose)

Wow, back when the first delay hit it was like 15 including the structural test frame. So they built 11 additional without wiring and will take another 2 years to deliver these extra 11 - that production line is flying.

Doesn't it seem odd that the plane is close to being certified, but Airbus hasn't publised any recent airport or technical data on it, like the updated range payload charts, MTOW, OEW, Engine SFC.

If the news was as good as these PR snippets keep bringing up, wouldn't Airbus be crowing from the highest rooftop.
 
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glideslope
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RE: A380 Problems Solved, 17% Better Than 747-8.

Sun Nov 26, 2006 9:00 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 10):
Its a miracle, praise the lord.....

Lets see some real numbers from Airbus itself before we get overexcited.....one has to doubt a PR piece coming out of Dubai, the home of EK, the airline with the most A380s on order.

I have no doubt that Airbus will get the A380 right and fix its problems....but these overoptimistic numbers and other nonsense have got to stop if anyone is going to take any of this seriously..

Yes. The same old Airbus PR BS. Let's see this thing EIS after 24 months. I'd have a had time believeing that today was 06/25/11 if Airbus was the source.
To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy.” Sun Tzu
 
PITrules
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RE: A380 Problems Solved, 17% Better Than 747-8.

Sun Nov 26, 2006 9:23 am

Quoting Thorben (Thread starter):
The delegation of engineers from EK sent to TLS was very happy with what they saw.

Actually, the article states:

"'Our engineers have returned from Toulouse. We are evaluating the audit information internally,' an Emirates spokesperson said."

As far as I can tell from this article, we don't know how the EK delegation feels.
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We're Nuts
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RE: A380 Problems Solved, 17% Better Than 747-8.

Sun Nov 26, 2006 9:25 am

Quoting Thorben (Thread starter):
A380 Problems Solved, 17% Better Than 747-8.

Is that 17% better per available seat/mile (BASM)?  Wink
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Shenzhen
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RE: A380 Problems Solved, 17% Better Than 747-8.

Sun Nov 26, 2006 9:50 am

In September, Airbus hinted at a further delay in delivery of the A380 of up to one year citing problems with wiring. "We had to re-do the cabling in order to match customers' needs as well as our own requirements," Stonestreet said.

Who is Stonestreet, and what has he been smoking?
 
boeingfever777
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RE: A380 Problems Solved, 17% Better Than 747-8.

Sun Nov 26, 2006 9:54 am

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 26):
this is what boeing says...

Yeah... since the market speaks for itself and the A380 is selling faster than ever right? And why 3-4 carriers are looking to cancel there A380 order and FX already has right?
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre.
 
boeingbus
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RE: A380 Problems Solved, 17% Better Than 747-8.

Sun Nov 26, 2006 9:55 am

This is great news for Airbus. They need some right now.

Look, Airbus needs the A380 more than Boeing needs its 748I.

So hats off to Airbus for pulling this off... I always enjoyed see the A380 progress. Lets hope this news is for real.

Cheers,
Airbus or Boeing - it's all good to me!
 
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glideslope
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RE: A380 Problems Solved, 17% Better Than 747-8.

Sun Nov 26, 2006 10:45 am

Quoting BoeingBus (Reply 46):
So hats off to Airbus for pulling this off... I always enjoyed see the A380 progress. Lets hope this news is for real.

We have been hoping for honestly for the last 3 years. Time will tell. Airbus has to increase 320 production to offset the 380 fiasco.This ramping-up can be just as large of a challenge. Then we have the 350 whatever. France is balking until they can give non-repayable start up aid. Meetings canceled hours before the start. Unbelievable antics. LOL. It's like Dogs Chasing each others tails. I say move all 350 production to China. At leaset they will work a 40-50 hr week. Something Europeans will see very soon.

 bigthumbsup 
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tootallsd
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RE: A380 Problems Solved, 17% Better Than 747-8.

Sun Nov 26, 2006 10:48 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 35):
And, where is Airbus hiding those 26 completed but unwired airplanes mentioned in the article......maybe we can organize an a.net road trip to go take a look!

And if they do exist -- why would it take 2+ years to deliver them to customers and please don't tell me about unexpected levels of customization.
 
N908AW
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RE: A380 Problems Solved, 17% Better Than 747-8.

Sun Nov 26, 2006 11:47 am

Quoting Thorben (Reply 4):
But anyway, the 747-8 only exists on the paper, it is not even decided whether it will be 74 or 76 meters long, so this prediction is not more than hot air.

Yes. Don't try to compare the present to the future. The future might not even happen.

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 6):
I say you in 3-4 years the 380 will be a best seller

Didn't people say that 3 or 4 years ago?
'Cause you're on ATA again, and on ATA, you're on vacation!
 
jfk777
Posts: 5954
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:23 am

RE: A380 Problems Solved, 17% Better Than 747-8.

Sun Nov 26, 2006 11:58 am

I will believe it when I see it. The A380 can claim all these efficiencies but its still teh SUV of airplanes.
 
sparkingwave
Posts: 564
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2005 1:01 pm

RE: A380 Problems Solved, 17% Better Than 747-8.

Sun Nov 26, 2006 12:52 pm

The A380 is two years late. Right now, it's not 17% better than anything.

Perhaps they meant that the airlines that ordered it would get a 17% ADDITIONAL discount on the A380, compared to the B747-8.

SparkingWave
Flights to the moon and all major space stations. At Pan Am, the sky is no longer the limit!
 
brendows
Posts: 801
Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 4:55 pm

RE: A380 Problems Solved, 17% Better Than 747-8.

Sun Nov 26, 2006 1:05 pm

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 15):
I suppose Airbus -quite fairly- uses a pax configuration for the 747-8 which is based on the same comfort levels for the individual pax as for their A380 (meaning less than the high pax numbers Boeing uses for their 748), so the real improvement from the 748 over the 744 could be as low as 5%, which is in line with what re-engining a plane normally brings as step forward....

You're obviously not including the reduced fuel burn of the GEnX on the 748... I'll believe Airbus when they show us some hard figures, I will be very sceptical until then.
 
zvezda
Posts: 8891
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RE: A380 Problems Solved, 17% Better Than 747-8.

Sun Nov 26, 2006 1:08 pm

First, we need to discount the report as the article refers to a B747-800 which is a non-existant model. The 17% difference could only be relative to the B747-400.

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 6):
I also hope for some 748I orders , the 747 can´t disappear from sky ...

If (and it's clearly not the case) the B747-8I were to have 17% higher fuel consumption per pax than the WhaleJet, then I would hope for zero B747-8I orders. It would deserve an ignominious death.

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 28):
unless the 748I is flown in some sort of cattle class, it simply can't match the fuel efficiency of the A380.

That's a wild assertion.

Let's go back to basics. The overall efficiency of an airliner is determined by three things:
1) propulsion efficiency, measured in SFC. The B747-8I wins this one because it has one generation newer engines.
2) structural efficiency, usually measured as payload/OEW. This comparison is only valid for airliners with similar ranges. Again, the B747-8I wins this one.
3) aerodynamic efficiency. The WhaleJet will probably win this one, but we don't have enough information yet to be certain.

Given the above, it would be surprising if the WhaleJet could beat the B747-8I SuperJumbo in overall efficiency. Beating it by 17% would be as difficult as genetically engineering a pig to fly by infecting it with a virus.

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 38):
One thing I have noticed is that I have not heard a single thing about the A380-900 in the past year or so... has Airbus dropped plans for this or are they just waiting to get all the issues with the -800 sorted first? Still seems kinda strange that they haven't said anything at all about it... Afterall the -900 will be the aircraft with the massive advantage in CASM.

The engine manufacturers will not invest in such a program until they have recouped their development costs on the current WhaleJet.
 
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Zkpilot
Posts: 3750
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RE: A380 Problems Solved, 17% Better Than 747-8.

Sun Nov 26, 2006 1:18 pm

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 54):
The engine manufacturers will not invest in such a program until they have recouped their development costs on the current WhaleJet

Oh ok then, are they going to be uprated A380-800 engines, or will they be the next generation engines like on the 748I but more powerful?
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