TWA1985
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American And Alaska Interchange

Sun Nov 26, 2006 12:24 pm

Hi Everyone,

I just recieved an American Airlines Timetable from August 1985 and it stated on the route map that Alaska was served via an interchange with Alaska Airlines.

I am very curious, when did this start? How long did it last? How did the operation work? Etc?

Was it the classic "no change of plane" procedure?

Thanks,

TWA1985
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OPNLguy
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RE: American And Alaska Interchange

Sun Nov 26, 2006 12:54 pm

If my memory serves, this actually started as an interchange with Braniff (v1.0) and AA picked it up after Braniff folded in May of 1982.

In both cases, a 727-200 was used (alternating between AS and BN/AA equipment, again, if I remember correctly), and I think the BN/AA crews flew it as far as SEA and then an AS crew took it from there to Alaska.
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USPIT10L
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RE: American And Alaska Interchange

Sun Nov 26, 2006 1:42 pm

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 1):
If my memory serves, this actually started as an interchange with Braniff (v1.0) and AA picked it up after Braniff folded in May of 1982.

In both cases, a 727-200 was used (alternating between AS and BN/AA equipment, again, if I remember correctly), and I think the BN/AA crews flew it as far as SEA and then an AS crew took it from there to Alaska.

Yep, that sounds correct. The route ran IAH-DFW-SEA-ANC-FAI, IIRC. It's listed in my 1991 AA system skeds. I think it lasted until 1992-93, IINM.
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AirframeAS
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RE: American And Alaska Interchange

Sun Nov 26, 2006 1:53 pm

IIRC, AA crews flew the AS jets to DAL (from SEA) while AS crews flew the AA jets to the state of Alaska (Again, from SEA) or something to that extent. I remember reading about that on the forums last year.
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OPNLguy
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RE: American And Alaska Interchange

Sun Nov 26, 2006 1:55 pm

Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 2):
Yep, that sounds correct. The route ran IAH-DFW-SEA-ANC-FAI, IIRC. It's listed in my 1991 AA system skeds. I think it lasted until 1992-93, IINM.

I catered for Dobbs at IAH off and on in the 1974-1977 timeframe, and I recall seeing an AS bird at BN's gates as well, so your routing sounds right. I probably have some slides buried somewhere in my well-organized archives.. (read: one of 200 boxes in my various closets)  Wink
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
AirCop
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RE: American And Alaska Interchange

Sun Nov 26, 2006 2:41 pm

In 1974 Braniff had an interchange with Western, I remember flying from DFW to SEA, and it was a Western 727 sitting at the gate. After SEA the flight continued to ANC.
 
Cactus739
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RE: American And Alaska Interchange

Sun Nov 26, 2006 2:41 pm

They also had an interchange flight routed FAI-ANC-SEA-ORD, I took that one and the return a few times in high school. If I remember right it was flight 394 that did the FAI-ORD run, and fligh 391 did the return.

Back then we also a very nice snack service on the red-eye flight out of Anchorage.... oh the days...  Smile
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TWA1985
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RE: American And Alaska Interchange

Mon Nov 27, 2006 1:43 am

So why did Braniff and American do this interchange? Deregulation was overwith in the 1980's- so why didn't American just serve Alaska on their own?

Why switch crews? It just doesn't make sense.

Can someone explain the reasons behind this?

TWA1985
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AirCop
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RE: American And Alaska Interchange

Mon Nov 27, 2006 1:49 am

Quoting TWA1985 (Reply 7):
So why did Braniff and American do this interchange?

Because they couldn't get CAB approval to fly to Alaska, prior to deregulation it took forever to be granted a new route.

Quoting TWA1985 (Reply 7):
Why switch crews? It just doesn't make sense.

Since neither airline had the authority to fly to the others base, AS could fly to DFW and AA could fly to ANC and FAI, the planes were the same model, just switch the crews.

Quoting TWA1985 (Reply 7):
Can someone explain the reasons behind this?

The interchange began as the result of the opening of the Alaska oilfields.

I did some followup correction the Western Interchange in 1974 was with CO, BN had AS.
 
captaink
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RE: American And Alaska Interchange

Mon Nov 27, 2006 2:07 am

OK, so what is this. An AA crew would board, fly and work an Alaska jet, and vice versa for an AA jet? I am confused
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OPNLguy
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RE: American And Alaska Interchange

Mon Nov 27, 2006 2:25 am

Quoting Captaink (Reply 9):
OK, so what is this. An AA crew would board, fly and work an Alaska jet, and vice versa for an AA jet?

That was my recollection. The flights were not open to just any flight crews flying them, only a select few, and they had to go through special training for the differences in the 727s between the two airlines as well as differences in procedures.
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TWA1985
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RE: American And Alaska Interchange

Mon Nov 27, 2006 2:28 am

This was well after deregulation, why did this go on for so many years? I don't think AA needed CAB approval so many years later.
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OPNLguy
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RE: American And Alaska Interchange

Mon Nov 27, 2006 2:59 am

Quoting TWA1985 (Reply 11):
This was well after deregulation, why did this go on for so many years? I don't think AA needed CAB approval so many years later.

I suspect that it was because continuing the interchange agreement was cheaper than the overhead of each airline setting up operations in a city outside their "normal" route system. That said, why they just didn't contract out the ground handling like some do at other small-scale stations, is beyond me...
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
searpqx
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RE: American And Alaska Interchange

Mon Nov 27, 2006 3:56 am

At the high point, there were three interchange groupings, flying three routes out of Alaska. AS/BN flew FAI/ANC-SEA-DFW-IAH, with the crews being swapped in Seattle. This is the route that AA took over when BN folded in 1982. They also added FAI/ANC-SEA-ORD-IAD to the mix at that time.

WA/CO routed ANC-SEA-DEN-IAH, with the crews swapping in DEN (I think). Concurrently they operated an interchange YYC-DEN-IAH.

Wein and CO also operated an interchange, but I can't find any reference to it, and my memory isn't good enough to recall what the routings were.

Quoting TWA1985 (Reply 11):
This was well after deregulation, why did this go on for so many years? I don't think AA needed CAB approval so many years later.

As OPNL guessed, it was more economical for the respective carriers to operate in this manner than to go through the expense of opening a full station that would only support at most 2 flights. With the widespread acceptance of codesharing, even this expense wasn't practical and the AA/AS agreement was ended in 1992.
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AirframeAS
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RE: American And Alaska Interchange

Mon Nov 27, 2006 4:39 am

Quoting Captaink (Reply 9):
An AA crew would board, fly and work an Alaska jet, and vice versa for an AA jet?

Yep...

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 10):
The flights were not open to just any flight crews flying them, only a select few,

They were carefully selected in an agreement between AA and AS.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
captaink
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RE: American And Alaska Interchange

Mon Nov 27, 2006 7:21 am

But I ask why. Why is there a need to exchange crews? Wny couldn't the AA people fly their airplane to the desired destination, and vice versa for AS? How does this interchange help?
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AirCop
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RE: American And Alaska Interchange

Mon Nov 27, 2006 7:56 am

Quoting Captaink (Reply 15):
Wny couldn't the AA people fly their airplane to the desired destination, and vice versa for AS? How does this interchange help?

Remember prior to 1978 and deregulation AA didn't have the authority to fly to Alaska. (Side note during this period AA was #3 at DFW behind Delta and Braniff), therefore the need for Alaska Airlines crew.
 
Tan Flyr
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RE: American And Alaska Interchange

Mon Nov 27, 2006 8:15 am

Quoting Cactus739 (Reply 6):
They also had an interchange flight routed FAI-ANC-SEA-ORD, I took that one and the return a few times in high school. If I remember right it was flight 394 that did the FAI-ORD run, and fligh 391 did the return.

I took AA 391/394 several times ,in those years, as I recall to DCA. So for a while at least it was AA DCA/ORD/SEA- AS ANC/FAI and vice versa.
 
captaink
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RE: American And Alaska Interchange

Mon Nov 27, 2006 8:19 am

Quoting AirCop (Reply 16):
Remember prior to 1978 and deregulation AA didn't have the authority to fly to Alaska. (Side note during this period AA was #3 at DFW behind Delta and Braniff), therefore the need for Alaska Airlines crew.

Ok, that explains it.Thanks.
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charlienorth
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RE: American And Alaska Interchange

Mon Nov 27, 2006 9:04 am

I remember a few people who non-revved and didn't do their homework...they would fly ORD-SEA on an AA Flight and expect to go to ANC on the continuation,only to find out it was now an AS flt,had to pay the ID90 or whatever the arrangement was at the time.
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ckfred
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RE: American And Alaska Interchange

Mon Nov 27, 2006 5:36 pm

A friend of mine used to fly 727s as an AA F/O and flew some of the AS jets betwee DFW and SEA. AS's 727s had the Heads-up Display (HUD), since they flew in such severe conditions in Alaska.

Of course, AA admonished its pilots not to use the system, but that didn't stop AA pilots from trying them.
 
OPNLguy
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RE: American And Alaska Interchange

Mon Nov 27, 2006 6:07 pm

Quoting Ckfred (Reply 20):
AS's 727s had the Heads-up Display (HUD), since they flew in such severe conditions in Alaska.

There may well have been some places in Alaska where they could use it, but I tend to recall that it was more of a result of the fog at other places that they frequented like LAX, SFO, OAK, SMF, PDX, and, of course, SEA. There was a period of time sometime back in the mid- to late-1970s when SEA went below CAT-I landing minimums and pretty much stayed below (with only very brief periods coming above), and this went on for nearly 2 weeks. PDX weather was OK, and they were moving scads of passengers by bus to PDX, and running an impromptu hub from there. That experience (and the cost thereof) was the driver for getting some CAT-III capability, IIRC...
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AirlineBrat
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RE: American And Alaska Interchange

Mon Dec 04, 2006 2:46 pm

I have flown the AA/AS DFW-SEA-ANC-FAI run in the late 80's. I started in EWR and flew an AA DC-10 to DFW then connected to the pipeline run. It was an AS 727-200 the whole way from DFW to FAI. The AA crew flew up to SEA then an AS crew flew the rest of the way. That was back when Y catering on AS was legendary.....
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