QF744
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Airbus Can't "guarantee" A380 Q3 07 Delivery

Tue Nov 28, 2006 12:42 pm

Surprise, surprise! In a press conference this morning in Sydney, Airbus could not guarantee that SQ will receive their first A380 in Q3 (October) 2007.
If there is one more delay, will we see EK actually cancel some orders? Tim Clark seems to have had enough with the delays.
QF 744

From The Sydney Morning Herald..
http://www.smh.com.au/news/business/...isit/2006/11/28/1164476179330.html


While Airbus executives were keen to extol the benefits of the new aircraft, they were less forthcoming on whether the aircraft - which is already running two years behind schedule - will be delivered by October 2007.
The A380's head of product marketing Corrin Higgs was momentarily stuck for words when asked if the latest delivery dates were set in stone.
"I wouldn't say set in stone. I can't guarantee the future," Higgs told a media conference at Sydney Airport.
"I think we will make sure our predictions are correct this time because I don't think our customers are willing to accept further delays," he said.
IT'S ALL ABOUT THE UPPER DECK
 
planetime
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RE: Airbus Can't "guarantee" A380 Q3 07 Delivery

Tue Nov 28, 2006 12:48 pm

Quoting QF744 (Thread starter):
While Airbus executives were keen to extol the benefits of the new aircraft, they were less forthcoming on whether the aircraft - which is already running two years behind schedule - will be delivered by October 2007.

Honestly I am getting sick and tired of Airbus execs. They really make Boeing look like a much more well managed company with all their hype and denials and at the end making customers angry.
 
UAEflyer
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RE: Airbus Can't "guarantee" A380 Q3 07 Delivery

Tue Nov 28, 2006 12:59 pm

Quoting QF744 (Thread starter):
I can't guarantee the future

and who can guarantee the future??
believe me EK will never cancel their order, come and see DXB they have spend billions to build new maintenance facilities, new Aero-bridges, and they have bought the vehicle that pushes the A380 (i dont know what they call that vehicle)
personally i don't think that there will be an more delays, because that will affect Airbus heavily this time and maybe Airbus will be part of History like the Concorde.
 
QF744
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RE: Airbus Can't "guarantee" A380 Q3 07 Delivery

Tue Nov 28, 2006 1:59 pm

I agree there literally can't be any more delays for Airbus with the A380.

Would SQ pull some orders if their planes are pushed into 2008?

QF744
IT'S ALL ABOUT THE UPPER DECK
 
silentbob
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RE: Airbus Can't "guarantee" A380 Q3 07 Delivery

Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:11 pm

Unless the delivery dates get pushed beyond dates when Boeing can deliver 748s, why would anyone cancel a 380? It's not like you can get a 748 delivered by Q1-08.
 
khobar
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RE: Airbus Can't "guarantee" A380 Q3 07 Delivery

Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:16 pm

But we were just told the A380 was performing better than expected and that all problems had been resolved.

So, Carcaillet, is that a gross exaggeration, or what?
 
RichardPrice
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RE: Airbus Can't "guarantee" A380 Q3 07 Delivery

Tue Nov 28, 2006 5:30 pm

Quoting Khobar (Reply 5):
But we were just told the A380 was performing better than expected and that all problems had been resolved.

So, Carcaillet, is that a gross exaggeration, or what?

This sounds like an exec being caught offguard in a press conference and hedging his bets more than anything (who in their right mind would guarantee anything on that project in public?), and yes all the problems can already be solved but still need implementing in already assembled airframes so there could potentially be a delay caused by that.

But as I said, I think this is just hedging, as it uses almost exactly the same wording I use on projects I dont want to commit to an guaranteed end date on  Wink
 
Joni
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RE: Airbus Can't "guarantee" A380 Q3 07 Delivery

Tue Nov 28, 2006 5:30 pm

Airbus said when they announced the delivery date of Oct.07 that they could deliver the plane much earlier, because fixing the wiring only took 5.5 months, whereas they were pushing the delivery back 10 months. (source: AvWeek, paper edition). They said this was done to optimize operations of the plane, and perhaps they also wanted to do some other fine-tuning.
 
CoolSkyGuy
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RE: Airbus Can't "guarantee" A380 Q3 07 Delivery

Tue Nov 28, 2006 5:37 pm

Quoting Planetime (Reply 1):
Honestly I am getting sick and tired of Airbus execs. They really make Boeing look like a much more well managed company with all their hype and denials and at the end making customers angry.

Ditto... That explains why the majority fleet of most major airlines is Boeing, especially the widebody aircrafts, they have more faith in Boeing in delivering commitment.
 
scouseflyer
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RE: Airbus Can't "guarantee" A380 Q3 07 Delivery

Tue Nov 28, 2006 5:46 pm

Erm am I the only one who's noticed the October is in Q4 not Q3 so why should they be deliveringt the plane in Q3 anyway.

I for once am on ABs side in that they announced a much larger delay than they needed to when the plane was pushed back to this date to ensure that it will be delivered on time.

In fact I wouldn't be totally suprised if they "get ahead of themselves" and start delivering the re-wired planes early.
 
Johnny
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RE: Airbus Can't "guarantee" A380 Q3 07 Delivery

Tue Nov 28, 2006 5:53 pm

@ Scouseflyer
"Erm am I the only one who's noticed the October is in Q4 not Q3..."

LOL !!! That is great stuff!


Johnny
 
leelaw
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RE: Airbus Can't "guarantee" A380 Q3 07 Delivery

Tue Nov 28, 2006 6:14 pm

From linked article in the threadstarter:

...With 400-odd flight-test dummies aboard, the aircraft will be in Sydney until noon tomorrow before taking off for Vancouver and then France (via the North Pole)...

I haven't seen the info about the flight-test dummies reported before, just that there would be 70 real humans aboard the route-proving flights.
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Thorben
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RE: Airbus Can't "guarantee" A380 Q3 07 Delivery

Tue Nov 28, 2006 6:35 pm

Quoting Johnny (Reply 10):
@ Scouseflyer
"Erm am I the only one who's noticed the October is in Q4 not Q3..."

LOL !!! That is great stuff!

Like this one accounting professor of me clearly stated: "When the third quarter ends at the 31st of September." Big grin

Honestly, no date is set in stone, you never know what can happen, but given how many A380s are already done on the outside, and that Airbus claims to have solved the wiring issues - I wouldn't be surprised to see them deliver better than their last announcement.

Besides, two years late?? Wasn't the first one supposed to be delivered in April 06? Only 1 1/2 years until October 07.
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leelaw
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RE: Airbus Can't "guarantee" A380 Q3 07 Delivery

Tue Nov 28, 2006 6:53 pm

Quoting Thorben (Reply 12):
Besides, two years late?? Wasn't the first one supposed to be delivered in April 06? Only 1 1/2 years until October 07.

The "two-year" measurement likely comes from the fact that according to Airbus's current projections they won't be delivering A380s in any meaningful numbers until 2008.

Prior to the announcement of the third major program delay last month an Airbus official did observe:

...Fehring [vice-president A380 programme management] declines to say when the second SIA aircraft will be ready for delivery, but hints it will not be too far behind the first, pointing out that an airline needs "a minimum of two" when introducing a new aircraft model into service. [emphasis added]

http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles...The+race+to+rewire+the+Airbus.html
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manni
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RE: Airbus Can't "guarantee" A380 Q3 07 Delivery

Tue Nov 28, 2006 6:56 pm

Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 9):
Erm am I the only one who's noticed the October is in Q4 not Q3 so why should they be deliveringt the plane in Q3 anyway.

 checkmark 

However, the article did not mention Q3, only the threadstarter in his/her enthousiasm.

The article did mention something else...

"Airbus boasts the 500-odd seat aircraft is 20 per cent cheaper to operate than a Boeing 747 jumbo per passenger. However, airlines such as Qantas have yet to indicate whether this could lead to cheaper airfares. Thanks to the steeper takeoffs A380s make compared to 747s, Airbus says the aircraft emits half the noise."

20 cheaper to operate, emits half the noise and no indication of cheaper airfares... Can't fault QF for ordering a truckload of those 'Sky Emperors'.  Wink
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Thorben
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RE: Airbus Can't "guarantee" A380 Q3 07 Delivery

Tue Nov 28, 2006 7:22 pm

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 13):
...Fehring [vice-president A380 programme management] declines to say when the second SIA aircraft will be ready for delivery, but hints it will not be too far behind the first, pointing out that an airline needs "a minimum of two" when introducing a new aircraft model into service. [emphasis added]

Of course, many A380s are already flying or their fuselages done. When Airbus has this wiring issue solved (they claim they have), then they need to work some over-hours and get the cabins installed. They could have quite a few ready within a couple of month after the first one is done.
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RedChili
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RE: Airbus Can't "guarantee" A380 Q3 07 Delivery

Tue Nov 28, 2006 7:22 pm

Quoting QF744 (Thread starter):
In a press conference this morning in Sydney, Airbus could not guarantee that SQ will receive their first A380 in Q3 (October) 2007.

The thread title, and the above sentence, are grossly misleading. This is not what Higgs said at all. See below:

Quoting QF744 (Thread starter):
The A380's head of product marketing Corrin Higgs was momentarily stuck for words when asked if the latest delivery dates were set in stone.
"I wouldn't say set in stone. I can't guarantee the future," Higgs told a media conference at Sydney Airport.

Higgs was talking about the delivery "dates" in plural, not the "date" for first delivery to SQ. The most likely way that I can interpret this is that it's talking about the overall delivery schedule and the ramp-up to four per month, which is planned to happen by 2010.

There is also a possibility that since this question was asked in Sydney, that the journalist asking the question intended to ask about the QF delivery dates, or that Higgs assumed that the journalist asked about the QF dates.
Top 10 airplanes: B737, T154, B747, IL96, T134, IL62, A320, MD80, B757, DC10
 
keesje
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RE: Airbus Can't "guarantee" A380 Q3 07 Delivery

Tue Nov 28, 2006 7:25 pm

I have the impression that every word an Airbus exec says is taken for a ride here on a.net (and not only on a.net)

Every Airbus friday board meeting is discussed here before & after. On the Boeing front there seems to be an info stop on e.g. the 787.

Probably a harsh internal memo after the latest 787 weight / cost issues leaked. Now only customers must be urged to show more disipline.. http://today.reuters.com/news/articl...RT-ANA-BOEING.XML&rpc=66&type=qcna

If A had an info stop it would probably be suspicious and reason for rumors..
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glideslope
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RE: Airbus Can't "guarantee" A380 Q3 07 Delivery

Tue Nov 28, 2006 7:37 pm

Quoting Manni (Reply 14):
"Airbus boasts the 500-odd seat aircraft is 20 per cent cheaper to operate than a Boeing 747 jumbo per passenger. However, airlines such as Qantas have yet to indicate whether this could lead to cheaper airfares. Thanks to the steeper takeoffs A380s make compared to 747s, Airbus says the aircraft emits half the noise."

LOL. and there is a person in here who as of today actually has faith in a Airbus claim?  bigthumbsup 
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leelaw
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RE: Airbus Can't "guarantee" A380 Q3 07 Delivery

Tue Nov 28, 2006 7:53 pm

Quoting Keesje (Reply 17):
I have the impression that every word an Airbus exec says is taken for a ride here on a.net (and not only on a.net)

You could always start another one of your particularly insightful threads with the proper "storyline" to achieve some balance, I'll even provide you with some fodder from the same press conference:

"Airbus A380 In Australia; Qantas Reaffirms Plan To Buy 20"

"...Just as when we first ordered it in 2000, the aircraft remains the most suitable aircraft for Qantas to operate into the future on long haul routes between Australia and the United States and United Kingdom," Qantas executive general manager John Borghetti said in a statement.

"Our commitment to the A380 was further confirmed recently when we ordered an additional eight aircraft," he said...


http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20061127-716524.html

[Edited 2006-11-28 11:57:42]
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Revelation
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RE: Airbus Can't "guarantee" A380 Q3 07 Delivery

Tue Nov 28, 2006 8:10 pm

Quoting Keesje (Reply 17):
I have the impression that every word an Airbus exec says is taken for a ride here on a.net (and not only on a.net)

If Airbus execs didn't make such strange utterances, there'd be no discussion, eh?

Quoting Keesje (Reply 17):
On the Boeing front there seems to be an info stop on e.g. the 787.

There's an old saying, "No news is good news!". Of course, time will tell if this is true or not in this case.

Quoting Keesje (Reply 17):
Probably a harsh internal memo after the latest 787 weight / cost issues leaked.

Hopefully. Why give ammunition to your competitor? All that should be needed is saying that such talk impacts the stock price and bonus, which should be enough to keep most employees quiet. On the other hand, if they worked in a place where the head of government said he would never let fail, you just might feel free to talk.
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bringiton
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RE: Airbus Can't "guarantee" A380 Q3 07 Delivery

Tue Nov 28, 2006 8:17 pm

Quoting Keesje (Reply 17):
On the Boeing front there seems to be an info stop on e.g. the 787.

Every time boeing feels there is something to be told they do so . They have talked in great depth about the Weight worries and production ramp up issues , they have made the investors aware of these issues and the fact that they have committed recources to tackle the issues . They have said that they believe that the program is on track and on time. What do you want them to do ? Start to list day by day changes and efforts ? When there is something to say they say it wether that be through media interviews or through WARNINGS which are mandated for a publically trading company. I dont think that boeing is on a ENTHUSIAST feeding frenzy with the 787 although randy basseler and others do use the net and other features to every now and then deal with some of the enthusiasts but over and above that the publically revealed information is basically targeted to the investor and those watching the financial health of the company aswell as other Aviation related publications . If there is something to say boeing will say it.
 
Bongodog1964
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RE: Airbus Can't "guarantee" A380 Q3 07 Delivery

Tue Nov 28, 2006 8:37 pm

Quoting CoolSkyGuy (Reply 8):
Quoting Planetime (Reply 1):
Honestly I am getting sick and tired of Airbus execs. They really make Boeing look like a much more well managed company with all their hype and denials and at the end making customers angry.

Ditto... That explains why the majority fleet of most major airlines is Boeing, especially the widebody aircrafts, they have more faith in Boeing in delivering commitment.

Isn't it quite simply the fact that Boeing had a 30 year head start on Airbus, and that until relatively recently Airbus did not have a broad product range to offer ?
 
Danny
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RE: Airbus Can't "guarantee" A380 Q3 07 Delivery

Tue Nov 28, 2006 8:45 pm

Quoting Bringiton (Reply 23):
Every time boeing feels there is something to be told they do so

Which they do not feel like because since few months ago (when 787 encountered first problems) there has been total embargo on information about 787. All we know is that they are struggling to build the prototype but claim it will be on time. Time will tell I guess.
 
leelaw
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RE: Airbus Can't "guarantee" A380 Q3 07 Delivery

Tue Nov 28, 2006 8:54 pm

Quoting Danny (Reply 25):
Which they do not feel like because since few months ago (when 787 encountered first problems) there has been total embargo on information about 787. All we know is that they are struggling to build the prototype but claim it will be on time. Time will tell I guess.

See: "Good, steady progress" on 787 as Boeing works to lighten up"

(Tuesday, November 7, 2006) Boeing's 787 is on schedule. Early practice production is going smoothly. A plan to take off extra weight is in place. And the new jet's boost to airline operating economics will be significantly better than originally projected.

That was the vigorously upbeat status report Monday from 787 program chief Mike Bair...


http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...aerospace/2003356605_boeing07.html

[Edited 2006-11-28 12:55:26]
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Danny
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RE: Airbus Can't "guarantee" A380 Q3 07 Delivery

Tue Nov 28, 2006 9:00 pm

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 26):
See: "Good, steady progress" on 787 as Boeing works to lighten up"

(Tuesday, November 7, 2006) Boeing's 787 is on schedule. Early practice production is going smoothly. A plan to take off extra weight is in place. And the new jet's boost to airline operating economics will be significantly better than originally projected.

That was the vigorously upbeat status report Monday from 787 program chief Mike Bair...

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm....html

There is no information in there as well. ""We have some challenges but we know what they are and we know how to deal with them" All the time the same general statements.
 
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Revelation
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RE: Airbus Can't "guarantee" A380 Q3 07 Delivery

Tue Nov 28, 2006 9:06 pm

Quoting Danny (Reply 25):
All we know is that they are struggling to build the prototype but claim it will be on time.

LOL. If it wasn't a "struggle", then they probably didn't set aggressive enough goals, ala A330-Lite, A340-500/600, etc. Sorry, gotta go now, off to work to "struggle" on behalf of my employer!
Inspiration, move me brightly! Light the song with sense and color.
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Curmudgeon
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RE: Airbus Can't "guarantee" A380 Q3 07 Delivery

Tue Nov 28, 2006 9:09 pm

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 20):
"...Just as when we first ordered it in 2000, the aircraft remains the most suitable aircraft for Qantas to operate into the future

Crap. Anyone want to buy a modified DeLorean?
Jets are for kids
 
leelaw
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RE: Airbus Can't "guarantee" A380 Q3 07 Delivery

Tue Nov 28, 2006 9:10 pm

Quoting Danny (Reply 27):
There is no information in there as well. ""We have some challenges but we know what they are and we know how to deal with them" All the time the same general statements.

What do you expect him to say? The A380 has been flying around for 17-months and there hasn't been anything forthcoming from Airbus other than general statements about performance, is that any less insipid? Seems to be standard operating procedure at the OEMs.
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Danny
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RE: Airbus Can't "guarantee" A380 Q3 07 Delivery

Tue Nov 28, 2006 9:13 pm

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 30):
The A380 has been flying around for 17-months and there hasn't been anything forthcoming from Airbus other than general statements about performance, is that any less insipid?

I read a lot about wiring harness, design systems of different versions that were used in Hamburg and Toulouse and caused incompatibilitiess etc. There was a lot of details.
 
leelaw
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RE: Airbus Can't "guarantee" A380 Q3 07 Delivery

Tue Nov 28, 2006 9:24 pm

Quoting Danny (Reply 31):
I read a lot about wiring harness, design systems of different versions that were used in Hamburg and Toulouse and caused incompatibilitiess etc. There was a lot of details.

Only after a year with a plethora of non-specific statements from various Airbus/EADS executives emphatically declaring no further delays. If Mr. Bair is playing word games like Messrs Forgeard, Champion, and Dr. Humbert he'll meet the same unfortunate fate.
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bringiton
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RE: Airbus Can't "guarantee" A380 Q3 07 Delivery

Tue Nov 28, 2006 9:30 pm

Quoting Danny (Reply 25):
Which they do not feel like because since few months ago (when 787 encountered first problems) there has been total embargo on information about 787

Last time boeing had a public platform (their Q3 announcment) they were very clear and announced and tabled the issues regarding the 787 . Since then Randy has talked about it and I believe even Mike bair and The CEO have since talked about the same thing . They havent announced a delay yet because they dont feel that there would be too much time lost while the figure out some of the issues as they believe that they have enough recources at hand to deal with the issues. They have talked about contingency plans (8 in total with 1 fully funded) and plans to take over some work in house if partners find it hard . If they dont feel that anything has happened between now and 30 days ago (when Randy talked last about some of the issues) then they dont have to announce anything. Boeing makes regular announcments regarding the 787 program be it New partners or where they are in the production phase -

http://www.compositesworld.com/hpc/issues/2006/November/1489/1

Infact its just been 20 days (not months) since someone at boeing talked about the "ISSUES" infact on nov 5 or 6th Mike bair said this -

"""Boeing has put contingency plans in place, such as hiring mechanics, to bring some of that work temporarily in-house if needed, Bair said.

"We've not brought any work in house yet, and hopefully we won't," he said.

The company needs to decrease the plane's weight by about 2 percent, Bair said. Parts such as brackets and wing ribs were overdesigned, he said.

"We know where it's at, and we just need some additional resources to do what is essentially some redesign of parts of the airplane," he said.""

So its been 20 days since they last spoke on the topic . What do you expect them to give a weekly analysis on what is going on or report when something actually happens which is worth reporting?
 
baroque
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RE: Airbus Can't "guarantee" A380 Q3 07 Delivery

Tue Nov 28, 2006 10:03 pm

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 6):
This sounds like an exec being caught offguard in a press conference and hedging his bets more than anything (who in their right mind would guarantee anything on that project in public?), and yes all the problems can already be solved but still need implementing in already assembled airframes so there could potentially be a delay caused by that.

Just so and a journo looking for something controversial.

Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 9):
In fact I wouldn't be totally suprised if they "get ahead of themselves" and start delivering the re-wired planes early.

I keep wondering when that particular thread will emerge.

Quoting Keesje (Reply 17):
I have the impression that every word an Airbus exec says is taken for a ride here on a.net (and not only on a.net)

At least there have not been any interpretations on how much longer the "new" delay will be.

I wonder how the dummies enjoyed access to the new air-bridge.
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: Airbus Can't "guarantee" A380 Q3 07 Delivery

Tue Nov 28, 2006 10:24 pm

Something just doesn't add up here. If Airbus has 26 A-380s complete, or in the production pipeline, why will it take more than 10 months to deliver the first whalejet? I know all 8 airfames involved in the certification process need to be reconfiguered, so none of them will be able to be delivered in 2007, but airframe numbers 9-12 should be just about ready because Airbus has had 2 additional years to work on them.

Are we looking at the initial words from Airbus the A-380 is not ready and will not be ready for a year from now?

To me, the B-747-800I is looking more and more like it could fly airline service first. Perhaps the airlines that ordered the A-380 need to relook at it. I also thought EK saw no additional problems, so is Airbus blowing smoke and mirrors to the airlines?

Let the order floodgates for the B-747-800 open, now.
 
Scorpio
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RE: Airbus Can't "guarantee" A380 Q3 07 Delivery

Tue Nov 28, 2006 10:30 pm

I don't really see what the big deal is. If you were to ask the same question to a Boeing executive about the 787, you'd more than likely get the same answer. And they wouldn't say it to try and 'prepare the customers for bad news', they'd say it because it's simply true:the future ISN'T set in stone.

Quoting Keesje (Reply 17):
I have the impression that every word an Airbus exec says is taken for a ride here on a.net (and not only on a.net)

Only too true. It's a clear example of 'damned if you do, damned if you don't'. Take this 'news' as an example: here's what woud have happened (my prediction) if he had answered 'Yes, the date is set in stone': we'd get a multitude of accusations of arrogance from a multitude of people here, and the discussion here would be on how ridiculous Airbus management was for daring to claim they control the future.

Now, we've seen an example of someone answering this question the only way it could possibly BE answered by anyone, and immediately a whole bunch of people are falling over themselves to rejoice over what they all too happily perceive as an indication for a further delay.

Seriously, what SHOULD he have said to make some here happy?

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
 
Thorben
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RE: Airbus Can't "guarantee" A380 Q3 07 Delivery

Tue Nov 28, 2006 10:36 pm

Quoting Scorpio (Reply 36):
Seriously, what SHOULD he have said to make some here happy?

Should have said: "We are the worst planemaker in the world, and we apologize for trying to build the largest airliner in the world. Four engines are bad, and so are big planes. Except when it comes to the 747-8. That is why we have decided to cancel the A380 program and buy 166 747-8 from Boeing, so we can deliver our customers 166 Boeing 747-8. In addition to that, we are closing down all aircraft production activities, and we apologize for ever having made aircraft. And now excuse me, I want to start my own airline, all-Boeing of course. Many happy landings."
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kc135topboom
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RE: Airbus Can't "guarantee" A380 Q3 07 Delivery

Tue Nov 28, 2006 10:38 pm

Quoting Scorpio (Reply 36):
Now, we've seen an example of someone answering this question the only way it could possibly BE answered by anyone, and immediately a whole bunch of people are falling over themselves to rejoice over what they all too happily perceive as an indication for a further delay.

Seriously, what SHOULD he have said to make some here happy?

Perhaps he could have further explained his remarks, or at least let everyone know when they can expect the airplanes they have ordered?
 
baroque
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RE: Airbus Can't "guarantee" A380 Q3 07 Delivery

Tue Nov 28, 2006 10:42 pm

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 38):
Perhaps he could have further explained his remarks, or at least let everyone know when they can expect the airplanes they have ordered?

Above his pay grade?  Big grin
 
CHRISBA777ER
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RE: Airbus Can't "guarantee" A380 Q3 07 Delivery

Tue Nov 28, 2006 10:46 pm

Quoting Thorben (Reply 37):
Quoting Scorpio (Reply 36):
Seriously, what SHOULD he have said to make some here happy?

Should have said: "We are the worst planemaker in the world, and we apologize for trying to build the largest airliner in the world. Four engines are bad, and so are big planes. Except when it comes to the 747-8. That is why we have decided to cancel the A380 program and buy 166 747-8 from Boeing, so we can deliver our customers 166 Boeing 747-8. In addition to that, we are closing down all aircraft production activities, and we apologize for ever having made aircraft. And now excuse me, I want to start my own airline, all-Boeing of course. Many happy landings."

LOL!!!! Big grin Excellent!
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
Scorpio
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RE: Airbus Can't "guarantee" A380 Q3 07 Delivery

Tue Nov 28, 2006 10:47 pm

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 38):
Perhaps he could have further explained his remarks

'I can't guarantee the future' isn't enough? What more explanation could you possibly want?

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 38):
or at least let everyone know when they can expect the airplanes they have ordered?

Um, the exact same as what it was before? He DIDN'T say there was a further delay, he DIDN'T indicate there WOULD be one, he simply said he didn't have a crystal ball. It's ridiculous how this remark is taken completely out of context here, though not surprising. I mean, one would think that it'd be clear that there are currently no indications for a further delay when he said "I think we will make sure our predictions are correct this time because I don't think our customers are willing to accept further delays", a line which is conveniently being ignored here.
 
redflyer
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RE: Airbus Can't "guarantee" A380 Q3 07 Delivery

Tue Nov 28, 2006 10:47 pm

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 6):
This sounds like an exec being caught offguard in a press conference and hedging his bets more than anything

That exec isn't the only one who doesn't sound very confident...

"We'll deliver the first A380 in October next year, I trust," says Leahy.

"I trust"? Coming from Leahy, that doesn't sound like confidence to me.
http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles...esman+Leahy+admits+company+is.html

Quoting Scorpio (Reply 36):
If you were to ask the same question to a Boeing executive about the 787, you'd more than likely get the same answer.

Very true. But then Boeing isn't struggling with a credibility issue.

Quoting Scorpio (Reply 36):
Seriously, what SHOULD he have said...?

Given Airbus' credibility issues, his statement should have been unequivocal.
My other home is in the sky inside my Piper Cherokee 180.
 
Scorpio
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RE: Airbus Can't "guarantee" A380 Q3 07 Delivery

Tue Nov 28, 2006 10:52 pm

Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 41):
Given Airbus' credibility issues, his statement should have been unequivocal.

How could he possibly give an unequivocal answer to the question "Is the date set in stone" without flat out LYING? If he said 'Yes, it is', he'd be lying.
 
khobar
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RE: Airbus Can't "guarantee" A380 Q3 07 Delivery

Tue Nov 28, 2006 11:49 pm

Quoting Keesje (Reply 17):
Probably a harsh internal memo after the latest 787 weight / cost issues leaked. Now only customers must be urged to show more disipline.. http://today.reuters.com/news/articl...=qcna

What was the point of the story? ANA didn't want to swap delivery slots...with who? What airline was Boeing wanting to get ANA to give up some slots for?

Quoting Scorpio (Reply 34):
I don't really see what the big deal is. If you were to ask the same question to a Boeing executive about the 787, you'd more than likely get the same answer. And they wouldn't say it to try and 'prepare the customers for bad news', they'd say it because it's simply true:the future ISN'T set in stone.



Quoting Scorpio (Reply 39):
'I can't guarantee the future' isn't enough? What more explanation could you possibly want?



Quoting Scorpio (Reply 41):
How could he possibly give an unequivocal answer to the question "Is the date set in stone" without flat out LYING? If he said 'Yes, it is', he'd be lying.

Sorry, but at this point, with Airbus claiming to have the wiring issues resolved and also claiming that the A380 now can meet its performance guarantees, there is absolutely no reason why Airbus shouldn't be able to guarantee delivery on a particular date. After all, if what you said was true, that no one could guarantee anything, there wouldn't be such guarantees in the contracts, and Airbus wouldn't be paying compensation because of them.
 
Joni
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RE: Airbus Can't "guarantee" A380 Q3 07 Delivery

Wed Nov 29, 2006 12:21 am

Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 40):
Very true. But then Boeing isn't struggling with a credibility issue.

Boeing failed to launch the 747X and Sonic Cruiser, both of which were trumpeted eagerly as the "next big thing". In fact they also failed to launch the B747-700/800 before the 747X, and the 748i isn't looking good either.

In comparison, the A380 has many specimens already flying, and only the A350 program is experiencing "Boeing-type" problems.
 
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N328KF
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RE: Airbus Can't "guarantee" A380 Q3 07 Delivery

Wed Nov 29, 2006 12:25 am

Quoting Joni (Reply 43):
In comparison, the A380 has many specimens already flying, and only the A350 program is experiencing "Boeing-type" problems.

There is a huge difference between the 747X and Sonic Cruiser and the Airbus woes.

Boeing did not book orders for either the 747X or Sonic Cruiser. When the projects were cancelled, it did not disrupt contracted fleet plans. Furthermore, both projects culminated in the 747-8 and 787.

In contrast, Airbus has taken orders for the A380 and A350 Mark IV and Mark V, the former of which has been delayed enormously and severely disrupted fleet plans, and the latter two of which appear to have been replaced in the product line by Mark VI.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
wingman
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RE: Airbus Can't "guarantee" A380 Q3 07 Delivery

Wed Nov 29, 2006 12:26 am

I don't see anything wrong in these comments myself but I will say this. Streiff or Lagardere or whoever is in charge, in fact, of this company should issue an internal company-wide memo saying that the next person who says anything about the 380 in front of an open mike will be shit canned on the spot. Airbus really needs to batten down the hatches and start communicating with the world press exclusively and strictly through the executive office or the most senior level PR folks when it comes to this program. As always, the planes are great but the management and communication process is literally stupefying. If everyone just keeps their mouth shut then nothing can ever be taken out of context as it did above.
 
Scorpio
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RE: Airbus Can't "guarantee" A380 Q3 07 Delivery

Wed Nov 29, 2006 12:26 am

Quoting Khobar (Reply 42):
Sorry, but at this point, with Airbus claiming to have the wiring issues resolved and also claiming that the A380 now can meet its performance guarantees, there is absolutely no reason why Airbus shouldn't be able to guarantee delivery on a particular date. After all, if what you said was true, that no one could guarantee anything, there wouldn't be such guarantees in the contracts, and Airbus wouldn't be paying compensation because of them.

Semantics. There is a big difference between a contractual guarantee and an 'I guarantee, cross my heart and hope to die' guarantee.

Put it simple:
Contractual guarantee: "We agree to delivering by that date. If unable to, we'll pay $xxx in compensation."
What Higgs was being asked was 'Is the date set in stone'. A date set in stone means: "We WILL deliver at that date, 100% sure, no ifs, no buts, we'll deliver no matter what."

But hey, don't believe me. Tell me what YOU think he meant. Was he hinting at another delay, knowing that he said, at that same conference, "I think we will make sure our predictions are correct this time because I don't think our customers are willing to accept further delays"?

Realise that the short version of the above, is case he WAS hinting at it, is, "We're fucked".
 
khobar
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RE: Airbus Can't "guarantee" A380 Q3 07 Delivery

Wed Nov 29, 2006 12:44 am

Quoting Joni (Reply 43):
Boeing failed to launch the 747X and Sonic Cruiser, both of which were trumpeted eagerly as the "next big thing".

Boeing chose not to launch those because the airlines said they didn't want them. Boeing made the right decision in not forcing the birth, and you believe that leads to a credibility problem? Why am I not surprised?

Airbus has several A380s flying, has said all problems are resolved, claims that now the plane can meet performance guarantees, and still can't guarantee delivery of even a single plane.

The A350 hasn't been launched which is a good thing as Airbus continues to feel out exactly what they need to offer. Eventually they will come up with a great aircraft. Unfortunately, the road to that aircraft has been unique (contrary to what you claimed) - I can't think of any Boeing aircraft that were launched and then withdrawn for complete redesign to be launched again, maybe.
 
khobar
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RE: Airbus Can't "guarantee" A380 Q3 07 Delivery

Wed Nov 29, 2006 1:08 am

Quoting Scorpio (Reply 46):
But hey, don't believe me. Tell me what YOU think he meant. Was he hinting at another delay, knowing that he said, at that same conference, "I think we will make sure our predictions are correct this time because I don't think our customers are willing to accept further delays"?

Realise that the short version of the above, is case he WAS hinting at it, is, "We're fucked".

Manufacturers have faith in their balls, crystal and otherwise, to agree to specific dates in those contracts long before they have an actual "all problems solved" airframe that's presented to the public as needing only paint and a polish.

At this point, there is absolutely no reason why Airbus would be anything but 100% sure of delivery on a specific date for one single aircraft, no ifs, ands, or buts that Airbus could control. Unless Airbus is being less than truthful with regards to the wellness of the program. The only reason why Airbus would be unsure of anything now would be if there is an unresolved issue that affects the program as a whole.

Was he hinting at another delay? Not that I can see, but he wasn't excluding one either. I do think his uncertainty is consistent with what I said in another thread, that there are rumblings of something going on that Airbus has to get fixed within the time they gave themselves.

Quoting Scorpio (Reply 46):
Semantics. There is a big difference between a contractual guarantee and an 'I guarantee, cross my heart and hope to die' guarantee.

Well, yes there is. The contractual guarantee is the company guarantee with no plausible deniability, while the "I guarantee, cross my heart and hope to die" is simply the opinion of a single person and, most importantly, is non-binding.

[Edited 2006-11-28 17:14:13]
 
redflyer
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RE: Airbus Can't "guarantee" A380 Q3 07 Delivery

Wed Nov 29, 2006 1:28 am

Quoting Joni (Reply 43):
Boeing failed to launch the 747X and Sonic Cruiser, both of which were trumpeted eagerly as the "next big thing". In fact they also failed to launch the B747-700/800 before the 747X, and the 748i isn't looking good either.

Notwithstanding what others have pointed out in other replies regarding your incorrect assumptions about these Boeing programs, what exactly does this have to do with the fact that Airbus executives seem unable to publicly guarantee the revised delivery schedules will be met?
My other home is in the sky inside my Piper Cherokee 180.