A520
Topic Author
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380: Route Proving Mission Finished: What's Next?

Thu Nov 30, 2006 11:49 pm

What does remain on the menu before certification?
 
RichardPrice
Posts: 4474
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2005 5:12 am

RE: 380: Route Proving Mission Finished: What's Next?

Thu Nov 30, 2006 11:52 pm

Full weight rejected take off test.

Other than that, probably nothing major.
 
cpairDC10
Posts: 76
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RE: 380: Route Proving Mission Finished: What's Next?

Fri Dec 01, 2006 12:37 am

I wish I knew where that would take place..........a great site I bet, not that Id want to see it or be in one in for real
 
scouseflyer
Posts: 2165
Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2006 7:02 pm

RE: 380: Route Proving Mission Finished: What's Next?

Fri Dec 01, 2006 1:12 am

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 1):
Full weight rejected take off test.

Is that the one where the wheels catch fire and stuff cos they slam on the brakes at V1 in a MTOW plane?
 
Bongodog1964
Posts: 3069
Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2006 6:29 am

RE: 380: Route Proving Mission Finished: What's Next?

Fri Dec 01, 2006 1:13 am

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 1):

New tyres, new brakes and new underwear for the flightdeck crew coming up!!!
 
NoWorries
Posts: 493
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 2:55 am

RE: 380: Route Proving Mission Finished: What's Next?

Fri Dec 01, 2006 1:18 am

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 4):
New tyres, new brakes and new underwear for the flightdeck crew coming up!!!

Do they get many volunteers for the flightdeck crew, or does this one have to be "assigned?"
 
brendows
Posts: 801
Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 4:55 pm

RE: 380: Route Proving Mission Finished: What's Next?

Fri Dec 01, 2006 1:28 am

Quoting CPairDC10 (Reply 2):
I wish I knew where that would take place..........a great site I bet, not that Id want to see it or be in one in for real

The RTO test will probably be executed at Istres (LFMI), where similar test have been done before.
 
NYC777
Posts: 5065
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RE: 380: Route Proving Mission Finished: What's Next?

Fri Dec 01, 2006 2:00 am

It trully sounds like the plane is ready for service outside of the production issues. Airbus will be wise to schedule extra test to further refine the plane and to squeeze out as much efficiencies as possible from the airframe and the engines. That will go a far in easing customer anger over the delays in production.
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
scouseflyer
Posts: 2165
Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2006 7:02 pm

RE: 380: Route Proving Mission Finished: What's Next?

Fri Dec 01, 2006 2:11 am

Quoting Brendows (Reply 6):
The RTO test will probably be executed at Istres (LFMI), where similar test have been done before.

I hope that they've got better firemen that they had for the A346 test!
 
thaiaggie
Posts: 221
Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2004 1:56 am

RE: 380: Route Proving Mission Finished: What's Next?

Fri Dec 01, 2006 2:14 am

I read in Thai newspaper that A380 will come to Bangkok's Suvarnabhumi airport on December 5th and stays until December 7th
Barrow, Alaska in Feb. It was Cold!
 
robsawatsky
Posts: 477
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2003 7:07 am

RE: 380: Route Proving Mission Finished: What's Next?

Fri Dec 01, 2006 2:18 am

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 7):
Airbus will be wise to schedule extra test to further refine the plane and to squeeze out as much efficiencies as possible from the airframe and the engines. That will go a far in easing customer anger over the delays in production.

At this point-in-time anything other than very minor changes to engines and airframes are highly unlikely as any design change will further delay production. What will be developed are tweaks to the recommended operational procedures and automated controls to maximize efficiency as flight data is gathered and analyzed.
 
leelaw
Posts: 4520
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RE: 380: Route Proving Mission Finished: What's Ne

Fri Dec 01, 2006 2:20 am

Airbus Press Release:

A380 wraps up technical route proving after a final trip over both poles
30 November 2006

The world’s largest commercial airliner, the 555-seat Airbus A380, has successfully completed a series of technical route proving missions, receiving an enthusiastic welcome at each destination. Technical route proving is the last of the trials required for Type Certification, which is expected in mid-December. [emphasis added]

Returning from its final route that took it over the North Pole, the MSN002 landed in Toulouse, France today at 1.30 pm local time (12H30 UTC). This final flight left Vancouver, Canada under heavy snow conditions, on Wednesday 29th November at 4.25 pm local time (00H25 UTC) .

The exercise took the A380 MSN002 across the globe on an 18-day trip, stopping at ten airports in the Asia/Pacific region. During the trials, the aircraft flew approximately 69,000 nm / 127,788 km in some 152 flight hours, with all flights performed on schedule. The aircraft was operated by Airbus flight crews. The Airworthiness Authority pilots from both the European Aviation Safety Agency and the US Federal Aviation Administration also participated in the technical route proving and flew the aircraft on four legs.

A major highlight of the exercise was the Johannesburg - Sydney trip over the South Pole, where the A380 demonstrated its capability to fly ultra long-range routes at maximum payload. The A380 departed Johannesburg, South Africa, its maximum take-off weight of 555 tonnes / 1,223,565 lbs and was the heaviest aircraft ever to take off from O.R. Tambo International Airport, located at 1,680 metres (5,323 feet) above sea level. This trial demonstrated the A380s excellent performance at high altitude airports. The aircraft landed at Sydney airport after a flight of around 16 hours covering a distance of 7,296 nm / 13,512km, circling the South Pole on the way.

The technical route proving started on November 13th with four trips which included visits to Singapore and Seoul on the 14th and 15th November, then to Hong Kong and Narita, Japan on 18th and 19th November. On the third trip, the aircraft went to China stopping at Guangzhou on 22nd November and Beijing and Shanghai on 23rd November. The fourth and final journey included the round-the-world trip via both poles with stops in South Africa, Australia and Canada.

At each destination, the A380 performed as expected, demonstrating that it can be turned around as per normal airline operations. Checks were made on standard maintenance and behaviour, as well as typical airport operations and compatibility. This included the monitoring of functions such as bridge docking, cleaning and catering, refuelling and boarding procedures. The automatic landing capability of the A380 was also successfully demonstrated during a local flight performed at Johannesburg.


http://www.airbus.com/en/presscentre...380_tech_route_proving_wrapup.html
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
NYC777
Posts: 5065
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2004 3:00 am

RE: 380: Route Proving Mission Finished: What's Next?

Fri Dec 01, 2006 2:31 am

Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 8):
I hope that they've got better firemen that they had for the A346 test!

Why? What happened on that test?
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
brendows
Posts: 801
Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 4:55 pm

RE: 380: Route Proving Mission Finished: What's Ne

Fri Dec 01, 2006 3:37 am

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 12):

Why? What happened on that test?

You'll find answers to all of your questions in this thread:
http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...general_aviation/read.main/3109153


[Edited 2006-11-30 19:38:21]
 
scouseflyer
Posts: 2165
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RE: 380: Route Proving Mission Finished: What's Next?

Fri Dec 01, 2006 3:38 am

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 12):

Why? What happened on that test?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhMEN959voE
 
Jamie757
Posts: 838
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 8:33 pm

RE: 380: Route Proving Mission Finished: What's Next?

Fri Dec 01, 2006 3:40 am

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 12):
Why? What happened on that test?

I don't think this was quite what they were hoping for!  Wink



Rgds.
"I feel like a turkey who's just caught Bernard Matthews grinning at him!"
 
Dougloid
Posts: 7248
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RE: 380: Route Proving Mission Finished: What's Next?

Fri Dec 01, 2006 3:51 am

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 1):
Full weight rejected take off test.

Other than that, probably nothing major.

that's going to be a sight to see....I missed the MD11 10 per cent over gross RTO test but I heard it was pretty exciting stuff....not in a league with this video though.
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
blrsea
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RE: 380: Route Proving Mission Finished: What's Next?

Fri Dec 01, 2006 3:54 am

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 11):
A major highlight of the exercise was the Johannesburg - Sydney trip over the South Pole, where the A380 demonstrated its capability to fly ultra long-range routes at maximum payload. The A380 departed Johannesburg, South Africa, its maximum take-off weight of 555 tonnes / 1,223,565 lbs and was the heaviest aircraft ever to take off from O.R. Tambo International Airport, located at 1,680 metres (5,323 feet) above sea level. This trial demonstrated the A380s excellent performance at high altitude airports. The aircraft landed at Sydney airport after a flight of around 16 hours covering a distance of 7,296 nm / 13,512km, circling the South Pole on the way.

LAX-HKG is 7260 miles. Will A380 be able to do LAX-HKG year round, say with some weight penalty? It did 7296 miles with max payload on its route proving trip.
 
ltbewr
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RE: 380: Route Proving Mission Finished: What's Next?

Fri Dec 01, 2006 4:40 am

Baloney - they are Not done with the Route Proving - they NEVER flew the A 380 in/out of JFK/EWR, LAX, ORD or other major airports in the USA where they will be operated. Also, we have no A-net photos of an A380 at an USA airport. The USA will be a major place for the ops of the A380, and Airbus should have shown up with one at the above airports.
 
Gr8Circle
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RE: 380: Route Proving Mission Finished: What's Next?

Fri Dec 01, 2006 4:53 am

Quoting A520 (Thread starter):
What does remain on the menu before certification?

Announcing the next round of delays....  duck 
 
jacobin777
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RE: 380: Route Proving Mission Finished: What's Next?

Fri Dec 01, 2006 5:00 am

Quoting Blrsea (Reply 17):

LAX-HKG is 7260 miles. Will A380 be able to do LAX-HKG year round, say with some weight penalty? It did 7296 miles with max payload on its route proving trip.

One would think this is a prerequisite to get CX on board...LAX-HKG and LAX-SFO are two of their majour flights....
"Up the Irons!"
 
sphealey
Posts: 286
Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 12:39 am

RE: 380: Route Proving Mission Finished: What's Ne

Fri Dec 01, 2006 5:09 am

"Here's the credit card - go show the flag(s). Be back in two years. Why not give some of those a.netter nuts a ride while you are at it; they are our best source of free publicity".

Or something like that  Wink

sPh
 
blrsea
Posts: 1424
Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 2:22 am

RE: 380: Route Proving Mission Finished: What's Next?

Fri Dec 01, 2006 5:16 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 20):
One would think this is a prerequisite to get CX on board...LAX-HKG and LAX-SFO are two of their majour flights....

It might be important to SQ too if they want to replace their flights to SFO/LAX with A380.
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: 380: Route Proving Mission Finished: What's Next?

Fri Dec 01, 2006 5:22 am

Quoting Blrsea (Reply 22):
Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 20):
One would think this is a prerequisite to get CX on board...LAX-HKG and LAX-SFO are two of their majour flights....

It might be important to SQ too if they want to replace their flights to SFO/LAX with A380.

 checkmark ....It was actually one of the intial routes they were planning on flying the A380 on...(SQ 1/2)....
"Up the Irons!"
 
A342
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Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2005 11:05 pm

RE: 380: Route Proving Mission Finished: What's Next?

Fri Dec 01, 2006 5:58 am

Quoting Blrsea (Reply 17):
LAX-HKG is 7260 miles. Will A380 be able to do LAX-HKG year round, say with some weight penalty? It did 7296 miles with max payload on its route proving trip.

The article says "7296nm" - nautical miles. But I somehow doubt this figure: From what I know, the A380's range with maximum payload is about 12500km/7700 miles/6800nm. Maybe the payload-range performance is that much better than expected ?
Exceptions confirm the rule.
 
blrsea
Posts: 1424
Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 2:22 am

RE: 380: Route Proving Mission Finished: What's Ne

Fri Dec 01, 2006 6:03 am

Quoting A342 (Reply 24):
The article says "7296nm" - nautical miles.

Yup, you are right. I didn't read that properly. LAX-HKG is 6309 nm as per great circle mapper. If it can do LAX-HKG year round with no weight penalty that would be great news!!
 
Pihero
Posts: 4196
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 5:11 am

RE: 380: Route Proving Mission Finished: What's Next?

Fri Dec 01, 2006 6:12 am

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 4):
New tyres, new brakes

Actually, the test requires worn brakes, almost to the accepted limit for normal operations.
Contrail designer
 
brendows
Posts: 801
Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 4:55 pm

RE: 380: Route Proving Mission Finished: What's Ne

Fri Dec 01, 2006 6:23 am

Quoting A342 (Reply 24):
The article says "7296nm" - nautical miles. But I somehow doubt this figure: From what I know, the A380's range with maximum payload is about 12500km/7700 miles/6800nm. Maybe the payload-range performance is that much better than expected ?

First, the article doesn't say that it flew that route with max payload, it says that the A388 took off at MTOW.
The range with max payload (at MZFW) for the RR-birds is about 6550nm, where it also reaches MTOW, but the tanks aren't full at this point. With a normal pax payload (555 pax + bags) the A388 can fly 8000nm, and this is at MTOW too, but they have to trade payload with fuel to manage this.
The tanks will be full at about 8800nm, with about 16tons less payload than it could carry to 8000nm.
That this flight was 7296nm long and that it took off at MTOW, only shows that it had a heavier payload than the normal pax payload, not necessarily that the A380 has a better fuel burn than expected.
 
RichardPrice
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Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2005 5:12 am

RE: 380: Route Proving Mission Finished: What's Next?

Fri Dec 01, 2006 6:29 am

Quoting Brendows (Reply 27):
First, the article doesn't say that it flew that route with max payload, it says that the A388 took off at MTOW.

It does actually -

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 11):
A major highlight of the exercise was the Johannesburg - Sydney trip over the South Pole, where the A380 demonstrated its capability to fly ultra long-range routes at maximum payload. The A380 departed Johannesburg, South Africa, its maximum take-off weight of 555 tonnes / 1,223,565 lb
 
A342
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RE: 380: Route Proving Mission Finished: What's Next?

Fri Dec 01, 2006 6:34 am

Quoting Brendows (Reply 27):
First, the article doesn't say that it flew that route with max payload

I somehow also suspected this, but the following part of the article confused me: "A major highlight of the exercise was the Johannesburg - Sydney trip over the South Pole, where the A380 demonstrated its capability to fly ultra long-range routes at maximum payload."
Exceptions confirm the rule.
 
brendows
Posts: 801
Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 4:55 pm

RE: 380: Route Proving Mission Finished: What's Ne

Fri Dec 01, 2006 6:40 am

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 28):
It does actually -

Ah, thanks for pointing that out for me Richard, somehow I missed that part  blush 
On a flight of 7296nm, it should be somewhere around 15-16 tons below max payload according to the proposed payload/range-charts. The max range with max payload would have to be increased by more than 600nm to achieve such a flight, and I find that hard to believe, fuel burn and/or aerodynamic improvements would have to be somewhere in the 6-8% region to manage that...
I'm not trying to be difficult here, but such improvements would be fabulous, and if they are true, I find it strange that such things haven't been made publicly known by now. Wouldn't you agree?
Anyway, congrats to Airbus for finishing the route proving missions  Smile
 
RichardPrice
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RE: 380: Route Proving Mission Finished: What's Next?

Fri Dec 01, 2006 6:50 am

Quoting Brendows (Reply 30):
I find it strange that such things haven't been made publicly known by now. Wouldn't you agree?

I actually have a theory about that, and mind that its only a theory - the past 18 months have been little more than terrible for the A380 project, with delays on delays, the wing failure, weight problems, Fedex cancellation et al. Good news would be lost in the noise.

My theory is that Airbus are holding all of the good news for when they are ready to deliver - that would certainly put a upper on things rather than just handing over a 2 year delayed aircraft to angry customers.

That is however just a theory on my part.

Quoting Brendows (Reply 30):
Ah, thanks for pointing that out for me Richard, somehow I missed that part

No worries.
 
egnr
Posts: 408
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2004 8:31 am

RE: 380: Route Proving Mission Finished: What's Next?

Fri Dec 01, 2006 7:02 am

I've heard one of the A380s will be visiting the USA early in 2007, visiting a number of airports expected to see A380 operations...  shhh 
7late7, A3latey, Sukhoi Superlate... what's going on?
 
Bongodog1964
Posts: 3069
Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2006 6:29 am

RE: 380: Route Proving Mission Finished: What's Next?

Fri Dec 01, 2006 7:03 am

Quoting Pihero (Reply 26):

Actually, the test requires worn brakes, almost to the accepted limit for normal operations.

I was thinking they would need them after the test; but after looking at the video of the A346 test; new tyres and brakes looks like a best case scenario
 
agill
Posts: 938
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2004 4:49 am

RE: 380: Route Proving Mission Finished: What's Next?

Fri Dec 01, 2006 7:09 am

Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 19):
Announcing the next round of delays.... duck

Ok, I'm so sick and tired of all the negative posts about the A380 by now.... but that was just hillarious hahaha
 
mbj2000
Posts: 295
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2005 5:15 am

RE: 380: Route Proving Mission Finished: What's Next?

Fri Dec 01, 2006 7:25 am

Quoting Pihero (Reply 26):
Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 4):New tyres, new brakes Actually, the test requires worn brakes, almost to the accepted limit for normal operations.

Oh, you're no fun anymore!  Smile

You obviously didn't get the joke, he meant what plane and pilots need AFTER the test, new brakes and new underwear...
Like most of life's problems, this one can be solved with bending -- Bender Unit 22
 
swissy
Posts: 1481
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 11:12 pm

RE: 380: Route Proving Mission Finished: What's Next?

Fri Dec 01, 2006 9:37 am

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 31):
My theory is that Airbus are holding all of the good news for when they are ready to deliver - that would certainly put a upper on things rather than just handing over a 2 year delayed aircraft to angry customers.

That is however just a theory on my part.

I have to second that RP, no performance news since...... maybe that girl is actually performing better than most of the a. neters think....  Wink

I am glad everything is going so far so good and if they keep it on track mid December should be no problem.

Cheers,
 
osiris30
Posts: 2310
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2006 10:16 am

RE: 380: Route Proving Mission Finished: What's Next?

Fri Dec 01, 2006 9:44 am

@swissy:

Its not hard to exceed expectations of some a.netters when it comes to the 380. I mean the wings just have to stay on for that LOL

We'll all find out in a couple of years what the numbers are like for it, and then a year after that the 787... If you think there's been a battle up to this point, you ain't seen nothing yet LOL
I don't care what you think of my opinion. It's my opinion, so have a nice day :)
 
WingedMigrator
Posts: 1767
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2005 9:45 am

RE: 380: Route Proving Mission Finished: What's Ne

Fri Dec 01, 2006 12:08 pm

Quoting A342 (Reply 24):
Maybe the payload-range performance is that much better than expected ?

Or maybe it wasn't really flying at max payload... Max payload could also be construed as "maximum passenger payload" (555 pax), who knows, it's just a fluffy press release and not hard tech numbers. How much fuel was loaded, versus how much payload, is unknown. Here are some scattered stats from the route proving website:

JNB-SYD
TOW 555 tonnes
cruise altitude 35 kft
cruise M 0.85
ground speed 430-500 kts
distance flown 7300 nm
69 pax including crew
block time 15.28 hours

SYD-YVR
TOW 556 tonnes (yes, more than JNB-SYD)
cruise altitude 39 kft
cruise M 0.85
ground speed 400-550 kts
distance flown 7113 nm
79 pax including crew
block time 14.55 hours

Here is the curve from the Airbus airport compatibility brochure


Bottom line: you can't tell if the performance was better or worse than spec. It could be either and there are way too many variables in play to tease that apart.
 
AirTranTUS
Posts: 3313
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2005 9:12 am

RE: 380: Route Proving Mission Finished: What's Next?

Fri Dec 01, 2006 12:18 pm

Quoting Jamie757 (Reply 15):
I don't think this was quite what they were hoping for!

That video appears to be a failure of the airport rescue personnel, IMO. When the fire fighter first tried spraying the center tires, the stream seemed incredibly weak. The garden hose at my house can spray better than that. As the situation became more serious, it seemed to take them a bit long to react. Sure the exploding tires were unusual, but couldn't they use the truck mounted nozzle and approach from behind? I am not a fire fighter and could be completely wrong, but that is my interpretation of events.
I love ASO!
 
Iberia340600
Posts: 758
Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2003 5:57 am

RE: 380: Route Proving Mission Finished: What's Next?

Fri Dec 01, 2006 12:59 pm

Quoting Jamie757 (Reply 15):
I don't think this was quite what they were hoping for!

Oh my god.....those have to be the worst firemen ever!!
Visca Barça!!
 
SailorOrion
Posts: 1959
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2001 5:56 pm

RE: 380: Route Proving Mission Finished: What's Next?

Fri Dec 01, 2006 4:46 pm

Quoting AirTranTUS (Reply 39):
That video appears to be a failure of the airport rescue personnel, IMO. When the fire fighter first tried spraying the center tires, the stream seemed incredibly weak.

Well, the first interaction happened to early (they need to wait 5 minutes before intervention otherwise the test is failed). However, once the situation got serious, the performance of the fire fighting crew appeared to be suboptimal.
1) Insufficient hose length
2) no pressure
3) one man alone
4) Who cared about the fire on the left MLG in the first place?

SailorOrion
 
zvezda
Posts: 8891
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 8:48 pm

RE: 380: Route Proving Mission Finished: What's Next?

Fri Dec 01, 2006 5:07 pm

Quoting Blrsea (Reply 17):
LAX-HKG is 7260 miles. Will A380 be able to do LAX-HKG year round, say with some weight penalty?

Yes, with a weight penalty on days with strong headwinds.

Quoting A342 (Reply 24):
From what I know, the A380's range with maximum payload is about 12500km/7700 miles/6800nm.

No, about 6500nm with max payload. See the Z-chart posted above.
 
jasond
Posts: 648
Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2009 5:23 am

RE: 380: Route Proving Mission Finished: What's Next?

Fri Dec 01, 2006 8:29 pm

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 7):
That will go a far in easing customer anger over the delays in production.

Well not anger, more disquiet, except for the freighter cancellation all other customers have kept the faith even to the point of increasing orders. I guess they must be really pissed!!!
 
zvezda
Posts: 8891
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 8:48 pm

RE: 380: Route Proving Mission Finished: What's Next?

Sat Dec 02, 2006 1:12 am

Quoting Jasond (Reply 43):
Well not anger, more disquiet, except for the freighter cancellation all other customers have kept the faith even to the point of increasing orders.

One cannot say that VS have kept the faith.
 
leelaw
Posts: 4520
Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 4:13 pm

RE: 380: Route Proving Mission Finished: What's Next?

Sat Dec 02, 2006 1:35 am

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 44):
One cannot say that VS have kept the faith.

One wonders why VS isn't anxious to take-on BA by offering "incomparable levels of luxury" to pax at competitive prices allegedly afforded by operating the WhaleBus(t), to steal away as much premium traffic as possible? If the flying cruise-ship scenario is indeed a viable and compelling business strategy, VS should be after the earliest possible delivery slots and placing follow-on orders, instead of cutting and running twice?
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
zvezda
Posts: 8891
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 8:48 pm

RE: 380: Route Proving Mission Finished: What's Next?

Sat Dec 02, 2006 2:16 am

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 45):
One wonders why VS isn't anxious to take-on BA by offering "incomparable levels of luxury" to pax at competitive prices allegedly afforded by operating the WhaleBus(t), to steal away as much premium traffic as possible? If the flying cruise-ship scenario is indeed a viable and compelling business strategy, VS should be after the earliest possible delivery slots and placing follow-on orders, instead of cutting and running twice?

Consider, hypothetically, what would VS do now exactly if they wanted to cancel their WhaleJet order. To avoid having to pay penalties to Airbus, they would have to convert the order to another Airbus model. A320s are not interesting for VS. A330s are a remote possibility. More A340s are probably not interesting. The interesting model is the A350, but it's not available yet. Airbus would have been willing to pay VS to defer their WhaleJet in order to reduce the delays to other WhaleJet customers. This is great for VS as it means they can convert their WhaleJet order later when the A350 becomes available. If VS want to cancel, the only rational behavior right now is deferal.
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: 380: Route Proving Mission Finished: What's Ne

Sat Dec 02, 2006 3:19 am

Quoting A342 (Reply 24):
The article says "7296nm" - nautical miles. But I somehow doubt this figure: From what I know, the A380's range with maximum payload is about 12500km/7700 miles/6800nm. Maybe the payload-range performance is that much better than expected ?



Quoting Zvezda (Reply 42):

No, about 6500nm with max payload. See the Z-chart posted above.

Given that the data presented above is 6500nm in still air and HKG-LAX-HKG is 6300-6400nm sometimes with excessive headwinds, it would be one expensive stop....

CX will certainly not order this plane if it can't do HKG-SFO/LAX-HKG year round consistently..

Also, the problem with the A380 on longer distance flights is that "pound-for-pound", it will carry a significantly less amount of cargo (compared to a 773-ER or 747-8I) if fitted for approximately 520 seats...of course, going down to 480 will allow some cargo...

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 45):

One wonders why VS isn't anxious to take-on BA by offering "incomparable levels of luxury" to pax at competitive prices allegedly afforded by operating the WhaleBus(t), to steal away as much premium traffic as possible? If the flying cruise-ship scenario is indeed a viable and compelling business strategy, VS should be after the earliest possible delivery slots and placing follow-on orders, instead of cutting and running twice?

 checkmark 

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 46):
Consider, hypothetically, what would VS do now exactly if they wanted to cancel their WhaleJet order. To avoid having to pay penalties to Airbus, they would have to convert the order to another Airbus model.

Given the recent A380 debacle, VS might be in a position to flat out cancel like FX has.....


Cheers.
"Up the Irons!"
 
zvezda
Posts: 8891
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 8:48 pm

RE: 380: Route Proving Mission Finished: What's Next?

Sat Dec 02, 2006 3:33 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 47):
Given the recent A380 debacle, VS might be in a position to flat out cancel like FX has.....

I think a conversion to A350s is much more likely. Either way, the chances of VS taking delivery of a WhaleJet looks about the same as the chances of Airbus deciding to build the A350 from wood and canvas.
 
osiris30
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RE: 380: Route Proving Mission Finished: What's Next?

Sat Dec 02, 2006 3:35 am

Quoting SailorOrion (Reply 41):
Well, the first interaction happened to early (they need to wait 5 minutes before intervention otherwise the test is failed). However, once the situation got serious, the performance of the fire fighting crew appeared to be suboptimal.

It's actually 15 minutes. Not 5.
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