columba
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Lufthansa Mulls Purchase Of Around 15 Boeing 747-8

Fri Dec 01, 2006 4:48 am

I know there are several threads about this topic and it has been discussed to death over the last year but I have just found this article that I wanted to share.
I also wanted to open a new thread for this because the last LH longhaul order thread already had close to 100 replies.

Quote:
German flag carrier Lufthansa is considering buying around 15 Boeing 747-8 long-haul jets, a source close to the airline said.
The airline wants to fill a gap in its fleet between the Airbus A340-600 and A380 aircraft.
In September, Lufthansa ordered 35 Airbus aircraft comprising five A319s, ten A320s and 15 A321s with an option over a further 30 aircraft.


http://www.finanznachrichten.de/nach...ichten-2006-11/artikel-7388839.asp

[Edited 2006-11-30 21:13:08]
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lehpron
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RE: Lufthansa Mulls Purchase Of Around 15 Boeing 747-8

Fri Dec 01, 2006 4:57 am

Quoting Columba (Thread starter):
Lufthansa is considering buying around 15 Boeing 747-8 long-haul jets

So if they go ahead with the order, it would not be for the capacity, since they have A380 for that?
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LTU932
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RE: Lufthansa Mulls Purchase Of Around 15 Boeing 747-8

Fri Dec 01, 2006 5:00 am

The article doesn't mention, what has already been mentioned here before, the possibility of an order for the 77W.

A bit surprising IMO.
 
scouseflyer
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RE: Lufthansa Mulls Purchase Of Around 15 Boeing 747-8

Fri Dec 01, 2006 5:09 am

Nobody knows what they're going to order so they're being linked with everything (cept the A340).
 
columba
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RE: Lufthansa Mulls Purchase Of Around 15 Boeing 7

Fri Dec 01, 2006 5:09 am

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 2):
The article doesn't mention, what has already been mentioned here before, the possibility of an order for the 77W.

A bit surprising IMO.

The article also did not mention the A330 as part of the Airbus order....
LH was evaluating what aircraft is the better choice as a 747-400 replacement for them the 777-300ER or the 747-8I. It seems now more and more that the decison is done in favor for the 747-8I.
If this rumor is true I would also guess that Boeing offered them a good deal to finally get a launch customer.
Regarding the 777 I would not rule out a freighter order but as to now the 747-8F with its nose door might make more sense.

[Edited 2006-11-30 21:28:33]
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jacobin777
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RE: Lufthansa Mulls Purchase Of Around 15 Boeing 747-8

Fri Dec 01, 2006 5:20 am

Quoting Columba (Reply 4):
The article also did not mention the A330 as part of the Airbus order....
LH was evaluating what aircraft is the better choice as a 747-400 replacement for them the 777-300ER or the 747-8I. It seems now more and more that the decison is done now in favor for the 747-8I.
If this rumor is true I would also guess that Boeing offered them a good deal to finally get a launch customer.
Regarding the 777 I would not rule out a freighter order but as to now the 747-8F with its nose door ability might make more sense.

A few carriers have gone with the 773-ER instead of the 748I because they didn't need the extra capacity. The 773-ER has lower trip costs than the 744, and decreasing some seats should in theory increase yields.

LH's situation is different..judging from what they are stating, they need a plane which fill in the gap between their A346's and A380's....the 773-ER wouldn't do the trick.... no 

I don't see them going with any 773-ER..maybe some 777F's......
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LTU932
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RE: Lufthansa Mulls Purchase Of Around 15 Boeing 747-8

Fri Dec 01, 2006 5:22 am

But why doesn't LH also go with the 77W for expansion? From what I heard, they need more planes, so maybe a combined order of 747-8Is for trunk routes and as gapfiller between the A346 and A380, and an order for 77Ws as partial 74M replacement plus for expansion could be a possibility.
 
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Heavierthanair
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RE: Lufthansa Mulls Purchase Of Around 15 Boeing 7

Fri Dec 01, 2006 5:43 am

G´day

Well, the "News" is from Finanznachrichten, not exactly the most accurate and reliable publication in this world, even less so if aviation is the subject.

I´m not saying LH is not considering to buy 747-8´s, the choice of suitable freighter aircraft is rather limited. If outsize freight is of importance, the 747-8 is just about the only choice, for other freight and to supplement the MD 11 freighters the B 777 and A 380 freighters may offer better economics. With the former being similar in size to the MD 11 who still have years of life left before they need replacement something larger may be desirable. Not to forget politics/negotiation tactics, some orders HAVE to go to Boeing. With the A 320 series for narrowbodies certainly and the A 350 for mid size long range likely to be the mainstay of the future fleet, not much is left for the B company. So guess!

Cheers

Peter
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NYC777
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RE: Lufthansa Mulls Purchase Of Around 15 Boeing 747-8

Fri Dec 01, 2006 6:00 am

No word on the 787 either though it has been rumored that the 787 is favored.
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zvezda
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RE: Lufthansa Mulls Purchase Of Around 15 Boeing 747-8

Fri Dec 01, 2006 6:02 am

As a frequent LH customer, I hope they choose something smaller because I would appreciate additional frequency.

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 5):
The 773-ER has lower trip costs than the 744, and decreasing some seats should in theory increase yields.

If decreasing the number of seats didn't raise the RASM, it would mean that every passenger within each cabin was paying the same fare.
 
columba
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RE: Lufthansa Mulls Purchase Of Around 15 Boeing 747-8

Fri Dec 01, 2006 6:16 am

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 8):
No word on the 787 either though it has been rumored that the 787 is favored.

No word on the A350 either as the decision whether they order the 787 or the A350 is postponed. Also keep in mind that this article is no official announcement and we will likely hear more about the up-coming fleet renewal plans when LH is officially announcing this order - if it is actually going to happen.
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
NYC777
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RE: Lufthansa Mulls Purchase Of Around 15 Boeing 747-8

Fri Dec 01, 2006 6:31 am

Quoting Columba (Reply 10):
No word on the A350 either as the decision whether they order the 787 or the A350 is postponed. Also keep in mind that this article is no official announcement and we will likely hear more about the up-coming fleet renewal plans when LH is officially announcing this order - if it is actually going to happen.

Well if Airbus does launch the A350 tomorrow, as had been rumored, then the A350 vs 787 contest might be decided at LH fairly quickly. I would think that LH already has a lot of the technical and pricing details from Boeing and probably the same from Airbus at this point.
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Stitch
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RE: Lufthansa Mulls Purchase Of Around 15 Boeing 747-8

Fri Dec 01, 2006 6:43 am

As Jacobin777 noted in Reply 5, LH already has a "77W" class airframe in the A346. No, it's not as efficient, but it's not junk, either. And with such a large fleet, LH may very well feel that adding on 748I's would be prudent as it would allow them maximum flexibility to service destinations year-round: A388/748 for the "high season" and A346 for the "low season". So when the Northern Hemisphere traffic is light due to winter, send the A388/748 "down south" and use A346s. Reverse for when the Northern Hemisphere traffic is heavy due to summer.

Also, as PanAm_DC10 noted in - http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3122452/ - LH could use the 748I's for a decade or so in passenger service, then convert them to freighters.

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 6):
But why doesn't LH also go with the 77W for expansion? From what I heard, they need more planes, so maybe a combined order of 747-8Is for trunk routes and as gap-filler between the A346 and A380, and an order for 77Ws as partial 74M replacement plus for expansion could be a possibility.

I really think LH feels the A346 is "good enough" to hold them over until the A350XWB-1000 or Y3 (or an improved 77W) can enter service.
 
brendows
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RE: Lufthansa Mulls Purchase Of Around 15 Boeing 7

Fri Dec 01, 2006 7:11 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 12):
Also, as PanAm_DC10 noted in - http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3122452/ - LH could use the 748I's for a decade or so in passenger service, then convert them to freighters.

If you are referring to reply 13 in that thread, I believe PanAm_DC10 is talking about converting orders for 748i's to 748f's and visa versa after they've been ordered in case the airlines needs has changed.
 
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Stitch
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RE: Lufthansa Mulls Purchase Of Around 15 Boeing 747-8

Fri Dec 01, 2006 7:15 am

Quoting Brendows (Reply 13):
If you are referring to reply 13 in that thread, I believe PanAm_DC10 is talking about converting orders for 748i's to 748f's and visa versa after they've been ordered in case the airlines needs has changed.

True. I was actually the one who proposed flying 748I's for a bit then converting them to 748F's later in reply.  blush  Been a long week up here in the Pacific Northwest.  Wink
 
supa7E7
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RE: Lufthansa Mulls Purchase Of Around 15 Boeing 747-8

Fri Dec 01, 2006 7:17 am

LH is an ardent lover of quads. The quadness of the 748 is exceptional.
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zvezda
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RE: Lufthansa Mulls Purchase Of Around 15 Boeing 747-8

Fri Dec 01, 2006 7:22 am

Quoting Supa7E7 (Reply 15):
The quadness of the 748 is exceptional.

??? I would have thought the quadness (is that a malpropism?) of the B747-8 is exactly the same as that of other quads and therefore absolutely unexceptional. What am I missing?
 
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solnabo
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RE: Lufthansa Mulls Purchase Of Around 15 Boeing 747-8

Fri Dec 01, 2006 8:09 am

748i between 346 (EK:773ER) and 388.

LH´s statement sounds exacly like CEO of EK said earlier this year.

Time will tell.

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flydreamliner
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RE: Lufthansa Mulls Purchase Of Around 15 Boeing 747-8

Fri Dec 01, 2006 8:23 am

Quoting Solnabo (Reply 17):
748i between 346 (EK:773ER) and 388.

That statement just made my day.

LH´s statement sounds exacly like CEO of EK said earlier this year.

I think that was Boeing's hope, Airbus built the niche high capacity A380, they hoped to build a niche 748 to fill the space between the large single deckers (A346/773ER) and the A380, instead of head to head. Personally, I would sooner see 2 772/A343s go instead of 1 A380, or 2 787/767/A332s go instead of 1 748 and have more frequencies, but that's just me.
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jacobin777
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RE: Lufthansa Mulls Purchase Of Around 15 Boeing 747-8

Fri Dec 01, 2006 8:26 am

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 16):
malpropism

it's malapropism.... Wink
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United Airline
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RE: Lufthansa Mulls Purchase Of Around 15 Boeing 747-8

Fri Dec 01, 2006 10:42 am

Good news indeed. I also believe that they will go for the B 747-8 to replace their B 747-400s as planned. Hopefully they will get more than 15 eventually and will include options

The B 747-400/747-8 have lower seat mile cost than the B 777.
 
kaitak744
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RE: Lufthansa Mulls Purchase Of Around 15 Boeing 747-8

Fri Dec 01, 2006 11:02 am

Just to make note:

Ordering the A340-600 (or 777-300ER) and A380 does not rule out an order for the 747-8i.

A340-600 - 360
747-8i - ~450
A380 - 555

As one can see, neither of the 3 aircraft compete with each other. In fact, they are roughly 100 seats apart. Since they do not compete with each other, they are for different markets, and hence, an airline could very easily have the 747-8, 777-300ER, and A380 in the same fleet.

Saying the A380 competes with the 747-8 is like saying the 767-200ER competes with the A330-300. Bottom line, they don't.
 
trex8
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RE: Lufthansa Mulls Purchase Of Around 15 Boeing 747-8

Fri Dec 01, 2006 11:37 am

Quoting United Airline (Reply 20):
The B 747-400/747-8 have lower seat mile cost than the B 777.

from airlineempires.net
2006Q1
CASM UA 777 6.17, AA 6.03, DL 5.77, CO 5.05
UA 744 5.55, NW 744 5.45
 
NYCA330
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RE: Lufthansa Mulls Purchase Of Around 15 Boeing 747-8

Sat Dec 02, 2006 12:05 am

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 16):
Quoting Supa7E7 (Reply 15):
The quadness of the 748 is exceptional.

??? I would have thought the quadness (is that a malpropism?) of the B747-8 is exactly the same as that of other quads and therefore absolutely unexceptional. What am I missing?

I believe Supa7E7 is simply making a joke. I found it amusing, myself.

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