Argonaut
Topic Author
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U.S. Coast-to-Coast Using Only Props: Possible?

Fri Dec 01, 2006 7:54 am

Before I started to do the research myself, it occurred to me that someone in the Forum might already have done it.

So here is the question: Is it possible to cross the USA on scheduled air services entirely by propeller-driven aircraft? It doesn't matter how many connections there are (or what it costs...), only whether it' s still possible to do it at all.

I and some crazy friends are thinking of trying to make the trip, if we can. I've had a look at the list of services currently subsidized under the Essential Air Services program, which offers some fairly good pointers, since most of those are operated by B-1900s, Saab 340s, etc. Clearly, it would have to involve quite a few large hubs and different airlines.

Anyone able to help? If I manage to work it out myself, I promise to post the routings!

Thank you.
'the rank is but the guinea stamp'
 
doug_or
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RE: U.S. Coast-to-Coast Using Only Props: Possible?

Fri Dec 01, 2006 8:29 am

prolly belongs in civ av. Anyway, there are pletny of ways, here's a sample:


SEA-BIL Q400 Horizon
BIL-SHR-DEN B1900 Big Sky
DEN-PIR B1900 Great Lakes
PIR-MSP-ATW-DTW-ITH SAAB 340 Mesaba
ITH-PHL DHC-8-100 Piedmont

If you're looking to maximize types flown you could throw on a EMB-120 between SEA and PDX. If you wan to add the ATR you'd have to find a southern route
When in doubt, one B pump off
 
doug_or
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RE: U.S. Coast-to-Coast Using Only Props: Possible?

Fri Dec 01, 2006 9:05 am

This one should cover all types in use*

SEA-SUN Horizon Q400
SUN-SLC-CPR-DEN Sky West EMB 120
DEN-PIR B1900 Great Lakes
PIR-MSP-ATW-DTW-TRI SAAB 340 Mesaba
TRI-ATL-AUG ASA ATR 72
AUG-CLT-HHH Piedmont DHC-8-100 and -300

you could add an OTH-SEA on if you count the DHC-8-200 as diffrent than the -100, but then you'd need to go and break dowen the SAABs by subtype

*Haven't seen a junkstream since last year, and I think Big Sky was the last user of the Metro..... any other types I'm missing?
When in doubt, one B pump off
 
Sabena332
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RE: U.S. Coast-to-Coast Using Only Props: Possible?

Fri Dec 01, 2006 9:14 am

Cool thread! I never thought of this but it is pretty cool idea! I miss many of the aforementioned planes/airports/airlines/US states in my flight logbook, and a friend and me are still searching for a reason to fly to the USA next summer. Now we should combine this flight schedule with the opportunity to see some NFL football games live in the stadium... and we're off! Big grin

Again, really cool idea, thanks for posting!

Patrick
NZ1's mother is a disgusting crack-whore and his father is a worthless alcoholic!
 
Coronado990
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RE: U.S. Coast-to-Coast Using Only Props: Possible?

Fri Dec 01, 2006 9:46 am

If you want to start out in So Cal, then I would recommend using the Dash-8 out of Palomar Airport 35 miles north of San Diego (CLD).

For example...

CLD-PHX HP/US DH8
PHX-DRO HP/US DH8
DRO-DEN UA Exp DH2...

Then catch up with the routing out of DEN thru PIR and so forth.
Uncle SAN at your service!
 
FCYTravis
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RE: U.S. Coast-to-Coast Using Only Props: Possible?

Fri Dec 01, 2006 9:46 am

The last Jetstreams in the US are flying for RegionsAir and Trans States on routes out of STL.
USAir A321 service now departing for SFO with fuel stops in CAK, COS and RNO. Enjoy your flight.
 
AA737-823
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RE: U.S. Coast-to-Coast Using Only Props: Possible?

Fri Dec 01, 2006 11:00 am

Quoting Sabena332 (Reply 3):
NFL football games live in the stadium

Football? Ugh.... if you're coming to the States, at least go to some baseball games... and hockey, though Canadia might claim that sport more readily.

As far as the subject goes, dude, come to Alaska! You can fly Beech 1900C's, Cessna 208's, Fairchild Metroliers, Saab 340's, TWIN OTTERS, King Airs, and Dash 8's all day long ALL OVER THIS freakin' huge state/nation. All in SCHEDULED service!!! Then land at Anchorage amid two dozen heavies.

And, the scenery is absolutely awesome.
 
ptugarin
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RE: U.S. Coast-to-Coast Using Only Props: Possible?

Fri Dec 01, 2006 1:09 pm

I know you are looking for scheduled service but depending on how many friends are going it may be cheaper to charter a turboprop  Smile
 
YVRLTN
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RE: U.S. Coast-to-Coast Using Only Props: Possible?

Fri Dec 01, 2006 3:36 pm

If you go east / west and end up in SEA, get QX over to YYJ on a Dash 8 Q200 then fly across here to YVR on a Pacific Coastal (8P) Shorts 360. While you're here, take a Convair 580 (if you come in the summer) on a fishing charter up to Massett / Skidegate, come back on a Dash 7, take a Beaver & Otter floatplane to Nanaimo and back while you're about it - actually, you may be able to go back across Canada all on QK Dash 8's?? Havent time to check - YVR-YLW-YYC-YQR-YWG-YYZ-YOW-YUL. there are probably more exciting and longer ways too involving the numerous King Air & 1900 operators.
Follow me on twitter for YVR movements @vernonYVR
 
doug_or
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RE: U.S. Coast-to-Coast Using Only Props: Possible?

Fri Dec 01, 2006 3:42 pm

Quoting FCYTravis (Reply 5):
The last Jetstreams in the US are flying for RegionsAir and Trans States on routes out of STL.

I couldn't find and TSA J41 flights, pretty sure they're done with 'em. I had forgetten RegionsAir, however, I'm not able to work it into the itinerary without serious (and silly) backtracking. Got me thinking though, does anyone operate props into ORD anymore?
When in doubt, one B pump off
 
FCYTravis
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RE: U.S. Coast-to-Coast Using Only Props: Possible?

Fri Dec 01, 2006 4:09 pm

Quoting Doug_Or (Reply 9):
I couldn't find and TSA J41 flights, pretty sure they're done with 'em.

You're right, my bad.
USAir A321 service now departing for SFO with fuel stops in CAK, COS and RNO. Enjoy your flight.
 
Argonaut
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RE: U.S. Coast-to-Coast Using Only Props: Possible?

Sat Dec 02, 2006 4:30 am

Wow! Thanks for all this great help! We could probably get our own society going...  Smile

All the ideas are great. In response to AA737-823...yes, I hadn't forgotten Alaska, not for a moment. You are absolutely right about everything--scenery and flying, all the great aircraft, all fantastic. I know Alaska because my wife is from Valdez: a couple of years ago I scored Era's CV-580 from there to ANC (saw the same plane a few months ago in Tonga; small world!). Another unfulfilled project of mine is to pay a visit to Everts for a little extra-special prop action...

Of course, another part of the idea is to involve as many different types, so I guess I'll just have to route through STL or wherever to get the Jetstream (I'm sentimental about those, since I am from Scotland and so are they). And then, there's the routing...Boston to San Diego also rather interests me, as it makes it longer...but I'm just seeing what's possible right now.

I also thought of crossing Canada the same way, although combining Canada and the US on one trip might get complex. Great idea to extend the journey from SEA to YYJ, too.

Thank you all for the help---keep it coimng!

Argonaut
'the rank is but the guinea stamp'
 
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knope2001
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RE: U.S. Coast-to-Coast Using Only Props: Possible?

Sat Dec 02, 2006 4:50 am

LOL...I used to look for just this information for fun every now and then.

Just a few years back (well into the reginal jet age) you could do nearly coast-to-coast on props in a single day with legal connections. If I recall correctly, Binghamton NY to Palm Spring CA

BGM-DTW-SBN-ORD-SUX-DEN-GJT-SLC-PSP

I wonder how many days it would take today to cross the country?
 
futurecaptain
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RE: U.S. Coast-to-Coast Using Only Props: Possible?

Sat Dec 02, 2006 5:01 am

Quoting Doug_Or (Reply 1):
SEA-BIL Q400 Horizon
BIL-SHR-DEN B1900 Big Sky
DEN-PIR B1900 Great Lakes
PIR-MSP-ATW-DTW-ITH SAAB 340 Mesaba
ITH-PHL DHC-8-100 Piedmont

2275 mi.

Quoting Doug_Or (Reply 2):
SEA-SUN Horizon Q400
SUN-SLC-CPR-DEN Sky West EMB 120
DEN-PIR B1900 Great Lakes
PIR-MSP-ATW-DTW-TRI SAAB 340 Mesaba
TRI-ATL-AUG ASA ATR 72
AUG-CLT-HHH Piedmont DHC-8-100 and -300

4810 mi.

Quoting Knope2001 (Reply 12):
BGM-DTW-SBN-ORD-SUX-DEN-GJT-SLC-PSP

2490 mi.


I wonder what the longest distance you can fly on scheduled props is? There would have to be some rules though such as only passing through a certain airport once, no backtracking, ect.
How popular are props in Europe/Asia for scheduled carriers? In the US we can get over 2000 mi on them, what about oversees?
AirSO. ASpaceO. ASOnline. ASO.com ASO. ASO. ASO. ASO. ASO.
 
imapilotaz
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RE: U.S. Coast-to-Coast Using Only Props: Possible?

Sat Dec 02, 2006 5:09 am

Here's an even more fun routing:

Routing - Aircraft - Operating Carrier - Marketing Carrier
VIS-MCE - BE1 - Air Midwest - US Airways Exp
MCE-LAS - BE1 - Air Midwest - US Airways Exp
LAS-HII - BE1 - Air Midwest - US Airways Exp
HII-PHX - BE1 - Air Midwest - US Airways Exp
PHX-FMN - BE1 - AIR MIDWEST - US Airways Exp
FMN-ABQ - BE1 - AIR MIDWEST - Mesa Airlines
ABQ-CVN - BE1 - Great Lakes - Great Lakes
CVN-AMA - BE1 - Great Lakes - Great Lakes
AMA-DEN - BE1 - Great Lakes - Great Lakes
DEN-GCK - BE1 - Great Lakes - Great Lakes
GCK-MCI - BE1 - Air Midwest -US Airways Exp
MCI-COU - BE1 - Air Midwest -US Airways Exp
COU-STL - BE1 - Air Midwest -US Airways Exp
STL-MKE - BE1 - Skyway -Midwest Connect
MKE-MKG - BE1 - Skyway -Midwest Conncet
MKG-DTW - SF3 - Mesaba -Northwest Airlink
DTW-ITH - SF3 - Mesaba -Northwest Airlink
ITH-PHL - DH8 -Piedmont -US Airways Exp
PHL-JFK - DH8 -Freedom -Delta Connection
JFK-ALB - DH8 -Freedom -Delta Connection
ALB-BOS - BE1 - Colgan -US Airways Exp
BOS-PQI - SF3 - Colgan -US Airways Exp


This would be a total of 22 legs. Here's your itinerary by day:
Day 1 - Depart VIS at 6:08am and get to FMN at 11:44pm
Day 2 - Depart FMN at 6:00am and get to GCK at 4:50pm
Day 3 - Depart GCK at 5:00am and get to MKE 9:05pm
Day 4 - Depart MKE at 11:30am and get to ITH 11:01pm
Day 5 - Depart ITH at 11:35am and get to ALB at 5:42pm
Day 6 - Depart ALB at 7:30am and get to PQI at 1:50pm.


Have fun and remember... use the bathroom in the airport as only 6 of those legs have bathrooms on the aircraft.
 
WA707atMSP
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RE: U.S. Coast-to-Coast Using Only Props: Possible?

Sat Dec 02, 2006 5:14 am

If you want good service, try to fly as many segments as possible on QX (Horizon).

Horizon's inflight service on a 150 mile Dash 8 flight is better than what you'll get on a coast to coast A319 on many US carriers. Horizon has free beer and wine, made by small breweries / wineries in the US Pacific Northwest, with a new beer and wine every month.

The last time I flew Horizon, their "beer of the month" was from a small brewery located in an old airplane hangar in Montana; the beer was really good.

Horizon also has a wide variety of (free) snacks - not just the usual "peanuts or pretzels".
Seaholm Maples are #1!
 
Argonaut
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RE: U.S. Coast-to-Coast Using Only Props: Possible?

Sat Dec 02, 2006 5:18 am

Talk of Alaska has make me get more ambitious: How about crossing the whole of N. America, all the way out to the western end of the Aleutians? Maybe that's possible by scheduled propliner, too. I'm not certain about getting into Alaska: Is there a prop connection from YYJ or YVR, or anywhere else in BC, to Ketchikan or Juneau, for example?
'the rank is but the guinea stamp'
 
FCYTravis
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RE: U.S. Coast-to-Coast Using Only Props: Possible?

Sat Dec 02, 2006 5:32 am

Quoting Imapilotaz (Reply 14):
Here's an even more fun routing:

Routing - Aircraft - Operating Carrier - Marketing Carrier
VIS-MCE - BE1 - Air Midwest - US Airways Exp
MCE-LAS - BE1 - Air Midwest - US Airways Exp

To make it truly coast-to-coast (and adding two more legs on the way), you could go...

SFO-MRY - EM2 - SkyWest - United Express
MRY-LAX - EM2 - SkyWest - United Express
LAX-PSP - EM2 - SkyWest - United Express
PSP-LAS - DH8 - Mesa Airlines - US Airways Exp
USAir A321 service now departing for SFO with fuel stops in CAK, COS and RNO. Enjoy your flight.
 
mtnwest1979
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RE: U.S. Coast-to-Coast Using Only Props: Possible?

Sat Dec 02, 2006 7:41 am

Off topic, but you ought to catch a Buffalo Airways DC-3 flight between Yellowknife and Hay River,NWT. I see 1 rt a day. That would be fun.
"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
 
doug_or
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RE: U.S. Coast-to-Coast Using Only Props: Possible?

Sat Dec 02, 2006 8:11 am

Quoting Futurecaptain (Reply 13):
Quoting Doug_Or (Reply 2):
SEA-SUN Horizon Q400
SUN-SLC-CPR-DEN Sky West EMB 120
DEN-PIR B1900 Great Lakes
PIR-MSP-ATW-DTW-TRI SAAB 340 Mesaba
TRI-ATL-AUG ASA ATR 72
AUG-CLT-HHH Piedmont DHC-8-100 and -300

4810 mi.

should have been ags, instead of aug.

ends up 3485 mi


I started my routes in the NW to get the QX Q400, but if you want they also have seasonal serivce from LAX-SUN on the 400. If you really want to go corner to corner, how about key west (EYW) to Bellingham, WA (BLI)? Course, if if you've gone that far might as well hit the end of the Aleutians.
When in doubt, one B pump off
 
ExpressJet_ERJ
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RE: U.S. Coast-to-Coast Using Only Props: Possible?

Sat Dec 02, 2006 1:55 pm

On the STL routing you could get on a J31/32 fairly easy. They route them through SPI and 1 a day to BNA. I think those are the only 2 cities the j31/32 run on that have more than just regions doing the service. So is that all the turbo props that are in service right now?

Saab
1900
E120
Dash 8, 100-400
J31
ATR
ETOPS...Engines Turn Or People Swim
 
YVRLTN
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RE: U.S. Coast-to-Coast Using Only Props: Possible?

Sat Dec 02, 2006 2:44 pm

Quoting Argonaut (Reply 16):
Is there a prop connection from YYJ or YVR, or anywhere else in BC, to Ketchikan or Juneau, for example?

No, though Air North are doing some fish freight charters YVR / KTN at the moment with an HS748 - maybe you could jumpseat...

Both AC & AS have flights up to ANC, but thats it - the main option into KTN seems to be AS ex SEA, but all with various models of 737's.
Follow me on twitter for YVR movements @vernonYVR
 
doug_or
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RE: U.S. Coast-to-Coast Using Only Props: Possible?

Sun Dec 03, 2006 2:54 am

Quoting ExpressJet_ERJ (Reply 20):
On the STL routing you could get on a J31/32 fairly easy. They route them through SPI and 1 a day to BNA. I think those are the only 2 cities the j31/32 run on that have more than just regions doing the service. So is that all the turbo props that are in service right now?

but waht other carriers fly props to those cities? I just wasn't familiar enough with who does what in that region to find anything.
When in doubt, one B pump off
 
Argonaut
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RE: U.S. Coast-to-Coast Using Only Props: Possible?

Sun Dec 03, 2006 3:40 am

Quoting Doug_Or (Reply 19):
If you really want to go corner to corner, how about key west (EYW) to Bellingham, WA (BLI)? Course, if if you've gone that far might as well hit the end of the Aleutians.

Now we're REALLY cooking....

Maybe we could encircle the N American continent? probably have to settle for some jets, though.
'the rank is but the guinea stamp'
 
5mileBob
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RE: U.S. Coast-to-Coast Using Only Props: Possible?

Sun Dec 03, 2006 11:42 am

Great thread, folks!
Still looks like a Ramp Rat
 
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knope2001
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RE: U.S. Coast-to-Coast Using Only Props: Possible?

Sun Dec 03, 2006 10:53 pm

I found a way to pretty much cross the country diagonally in two days. Massena NY in far northern New York State on the Candian border, down to Carlsbad, California between LA and San Diego, in fifteen hops over two long days:

Massena
Ogdensburg
Watertown
Pittsburgh
Erie
Detroit
Maarquette
Milwaukee
St Louis
Columbia
Kansas City
Dodge City
Denver
Grand Junction
Phoenix
Carlsbad

Here are the details:

Day One
1615 miles
9hrs 15 minutes
8 segments

MSS-OGS
5:15a 5:40a BE1
OGS-ART
5:50a 6:15a BE1
ART-PIT BE1
6:30a 8:00a
PIT-ERI DH8
8:35a 9:24a
ERI-DTW SF3
10:13a 11:30a
DTW-MQT SF3
12:10p 2:13p
MQT-MKE BE1
2:30p 2:41p
MKE-STL BE1
5:35p 7:12p


Day two
1771 miles
8 hours 52 minutes
7 segements

STL-COU BE1
8:05a 8:45a
COU-MCI BE1
9:00a 9:45a
MCI-DDC BE1
10:45a 12:05p
DDC-DEN BE1
1:50p 2:10p
DEN-GJT BE1
4:10p 5:17p
GJT-PHX DH8
5:48p 7:45p
PHX-CLD DH8
8:19p 9:02

Longest segment in distance
GJT-PHX 438 miles
Logest segment in time
DTW-MQT 2:03
Tighest connection
17 minutes in Marquette
 
Argonaut
Topic Author
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RE: U.S. Coast-to-Coast Using Only Props: Possible?

Mon Dec 04, 2006 3:44 am

Thank you, everyone; this is great! We are seriously going to try and do this, maybe even both directions by different routings. If/when we do, you guys will definitely get a heap of credit for your help. Photos, tail numbers, the works. Plus a trip report for a.net, needless to say.

The diagonal routings really appeal to me, partly because they're longer, with more variety. Although there's something to be said for attempting the quickest possible all-prop transcon journey, as Knope2001 offered. (That route has the further merit of costing only 1 night overnight Roach Motel en route...although having only 17 minutes to connect in Marquette might be a tad tricky...).

Thanks again.  Smile
'the rank is but the guinea stamp'