hamad
Posts: 731
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2000 6:29 am

Pictures Forbided On One Flt But Ok On The Other

Fri Dec 01, 2006 3:31 pm

To begin with, I am not posting this thread to bash an airline, but thought i share this incident with the readers on this forum.

I was on my way from Phoenix to Dubai, and i flew on United as i usually do. I just flying that airline. i did it in this sequence:

PHX - DEN - IAD - FRA - DXB. the last leg was Lufthansa.

as i am a student at the ASU masters in airline management, i do lots of papers and research involving the cabin design and the interior of the aircraft. in one of my courses, "Human factors in aviation" i was discussing the topic of how the design of the cabin doors affect the percentage of errors done by flight attendants, such as the famous mistake: "blowing the slides". i thought i take a picture of the door of the 777 to include how the design is excellent, when compared to the 767 in termss of the location of the arming and disarming levers away from the door handle

any way, so here is what happened:
on the DEN - IAD flight 902, i was seated on business class seat 11A and i asked the flight attendant if i could take a picture of the door after i explained to her my situation and i offered to show her my university ID, and the abstract to the paper, which i had in my carr on luggage. she said she will ask the captain and the purser and get back to me. an hour into the flight she came back to me and said that the answer was no, because any one taking pictures on an airplane is going to be "suspicious" according to the captain. i thanked her and continued watching the movie.

then on the IAD - FRA flight, i was seated on 8A on biz class, and i was chatting with the crew, they were much younger, almost my age and i thought i mention to them what happened. the plane was a 777 too and then they were surprised from that response and they said, you can take as much pictures as you want, its all over the internet. I was so shocked of the responses!!! same airline, same airplane type, but TWO DIFFERENT RESPONSES.

I just thought i mention this incident and see what you guys think about it.
PHX - i miss spotting
 
Australia1
Posts: 457
Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2006 7:36 pm

RE: Pictures Forbided On One Flt But Ok On The Other

Fri Dec 01, 2006 4:07 pm

it's called American paranoia !!!
 
Stealthz
Posts: 5546
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2005 11:43 am

RE: Pictures Forbided On One Flt But Ok On The Other

Fri Dec 01, 2006 4:11 pm

Quoting Australia1 (Reply 1):
it's called American paranoia !!!

Don't travel much with a camera on airlines here in Australia do you?
I have been stopped from taking photographs in airliners more often here than on US carriers.

But then that doesn't fit your Anti America ideology.
If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
 
Australia1
Posts: 457
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RE: Pictures Forbided On One Flt But Ok On The Other

Fri Dec 01, 2006 4:16 pm

Quoting StealthZ (Reply 2):
Don't travel much with a camera on airlines here in Australia do you?
I have been stopped from taking photographs in airliners more often here than on US carriers.

But then that doesn't fit your Anti America ideology.

You must look dodgy. Never had a problem.
 
hamad
Posts: 731
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2000 6:29 am

RE: Pictures Forbided On One Flt But Ok On The Other

Fri Dec 01, 2006 4:38 pm

hey guys, please cool it down. i wasn't sure if it was paranoia, but the flight attendant was very nice when she explained it.
PHX - i miss spotting
 
Markhkg
Posts: 838
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 4:13 pm

RE: Pictures Forbided On One Flt But Ok On The Other

Fri Dec 01, 2006 5:43 pm

Well, supposedly, the lowest risk of accidentally blowing a slide is still with the 737 type design.  Wink Wait till they develop a stick to hit the person opening the door while it's still armed!!!

I would say it is the crew's interpretation of the airline's policy. Many airlines in the United States warn the cabin crew that pax taking pictures or taping crew procedures or security/safety equipment is not to be allowed, usually out of security concerns. However, the guidance isn't very clear sometimes. Does that mean someone can't tape the safety briefing? Or that they can't video tape cockpit entry procedure? There's a big difference taking a huge number of photos of your lifevest pouch (which, incidentally, was where a bomb was placed during a Philippines Airlines bombing), versus an artistic shot of the exit sign. The policy is probably is a little bit overly-cautious, but security takes priority.

This policy varies from carrier to carrier, but I have seen it mentioned in several different ways by a few airlines.

In the end, the flight attendant who wasn't sure did the right thing...she checked with the captain, who, after all, has the overriding authority onboard the aircraft.
Release your seat-belts and get out! Leave everything!
 
hamad
Posts: 731
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2000 6:29 am

RE: Pictures Forbided On One Flt But Ok On The Other

Fri Dec 01, 2006 5:53 pm

Quoting MarkHKG (Reply 5):
taping crew procedures or security/safety equipment is not to be allowed, usually out of security concerns

I also think she did the right thing in asking, but just need to clarify that i told her that i want a picture of the door it self, and NOT a picture of the door while its being opened.
PHX - i miss spotting
 
baw716
Posts: 1459
Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2003 7:02 pm

RE: Pictures Forbided On One Flt But Ok On The Other

Fri Dec 01, 2006 5:54 pm

HAMAD and our Australian friends...

HAMAD, different carriers have different rules about picture taking onboard. In some cases, the policy is very "soft", in other words, it is not applied uniformly. Thankfully, you were not mistreated.

Now, as to the issue of paranoia, well, being the first American posting on this question, let me say this: 9/11 forever changed the way we Americans view traveling by air. It changed a lot of things for us (indeed it has changed the entire world). As well traveled as I am, there is a moment of pause before I step on an airplane now. It is a piece of myself I will never get back. Maybe it was watching UA175 go into the side of WTC2 at 300kts that did it for me?

One guy who is snapping a picture of a 777 exit door is simply doing research for a paper. The next guy is snapping a picture doing research for something much more sinister. How do we know? Different people are going to look at that situation differently. It is the new reality in which we must live. While I have come to accept this new reality (with a tremendous degree of sadness, I must admit), others have not.

Some people understand this, others do not. StealthZ, thank you.

As I said, HAMAS, I am very thankful that you were not mistreated.

baw716
David L. Lamb, fmr Area Mgr Alitalia SFO 1998-2002, fmr Regional Analyst SFO-UAL 1992-1998
 
Markhkg
Posts: 838
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 4:13 pm

RE: Pictures Forbided On One Flt But Ok On The Other

Fri Dec 01, 2006 6:01 pm

Hamad,
Have you seen the Aviation Safety Network site? It has many photos of different aircraft doors. I have found it very useful when I have had to do research.

Link:
http://aviation-safety.net/photos/ga...kind=E%&page=1&field=keycode&var=%
Release your seat-belts and get out! Leave everything!
 
hamad
Posts: 731
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2000 6:29 am

RE: Pictures Forbided On One Flt But Ok On The Other

Fri Dec 01, 2006 6:01 pm

Baw716,

thanks for your kind reply, the crew actually were very nice, and since i boarded, my camera did not leave the carry on in the overhead compartment, even when i asked. i could have taken it out, but i chose not to, so that i don't give a chance to someone to have more reason to suspect me more. i know by asking, i might have been watched. I have taken pictures on other airlines such as KLM, even UA and Northwest, BUT the key is, always ask.
PHX - i miss spotting
 
hamad
Posts: 731
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2000 6:29 am

RE: Pictures Forbided On One Flt But Ok On The Other

Fri Dec 01, 2006 6:03 pm

MarkHKG

WOW! thankyou so much!!!! it has the exact picture i wanted. eventhough the crew on the second flight let me take pictures, and despite the door having labels in chinese, but hey, that works!
PHX - i miss spotting
 
Markhkg
Posts: 838
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 4:13 pm

RE: Pictures Forbided On One Flt But Ok On The Other

Fri Dec 01, 2006 6:06 pm

Hamad,

Not a problem. Glad to help! May I also suggest you visit the following website and download some of their material (some of the powerpoints have photos too). They did research on inadvertant slide deployments and talked specifically why the 767 door was FAMOUS for accidental slide deployment!!!  Smile

http://www.iata.org/whatwedo/safety_...rity/safety/cabin_safety/slide.htm
Release your seat-belts and get out! Leave everything!
 
777ER
Crew
Posts: 9854
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2003 5:04 pm

RE: Pictures Forbided On One Flt But Ok On The Other

Fri Dec 01, 2006 6:09 pm

Quoting Australia1 (Reply 1):
it's called American paranoia !!!

Its called a whole world paranoia, especially in certain countrys like the USA, UK, Australia. Its not only the USA.

I encounted the same problem on a SJ flight from WLG-OOL last December. The FAs supervisor was crew on the same flight also. The problem is caused by a few up-tight FAs who have a problem with cameras flashing etc. 99% of all my flights I havn't had a problem.
 
baw716
Posts: 1459
Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2003 7:02 pm

RE: Pictures Forbided On One Flt But Ok On The Other

Fri Dec 01, 2006 6:23 pm

HAMAD,
Thank you for your kind reply. You hit the nail on the head. The key is to ask. If you ask and it doesn't violate policy, it should not be a problem.

Best of luck with your research.
baw716
David L. Lamb, fmr Area Mgr Alitalia SFO 1998-2002, fmr Regional Analyst SFO-UAL 1992-1998
 
User avatar
Buyantukhaa
Posts: 2288
Joined: Thu May 13, 2004 5:33 am

RE: Pictures Forbided On One Flt But Ok On The Other

Sat Dec 02, 2006 12:58 am

I've taken heaps of pictures from planes (and I'm not the only one, as this site shows!). I have never asked for permission (I usually fly within Europe) and never had a problem. However, recently my mother was asked not to take photos while on approach. The reason she was given was not instrument interference, but the fact that "one can not take photos of airports anymore". I fly that very same airline (TP) all the time and never had any such remarks. So Hamad, the same thing happens here too. Some FAs are just more uptight than others.

Ah, and coming to think of it, I did once ask if I could take a photo of an FA posing in the L1 door but that's quite another story  Wink
I scratch my head, therefore I am.
 
hamad
Posts: 731
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2000 6:29 am

RE: Pictures Forbided On One Flt But Ok On The Other

Sat Dec 02, 2006 12:16 pm

is that possible to take a picture of a flight attendant posing at a door?
PHX - i miss spotting
 
User avatar
Buyantukhaa
Posts: 2288
Joined: Thu May 13, 2004 5:33 am

RE: Pictures Forbided On One Flt But Ok On The Other

Sat Dec 02, 2006 12:46 pm

Quoting HAMAD (Reply 15):
is that possible to take a picture of a flight attendant posing at a door?

If you ask her very very kindly  Smile
I scratch my head, therefore I am.
 
WN230
Posts: 314
Joined: Sat Jul 29, 2006 2:41 pm

RE: Pictures Forbided On One Flt But Ok On The Other

Sat Dec 02, 2006 12:53 pm

Quoting HAMAD (Thread starter):
but TWO DIFFERENT RESPONSES

You were lucky to get the younger crew on the return flight as they seemed to be more lenient. The outgoing crew it seems was sticking more to the rules.  banghead 
Judas Priest North American tour in '08 . . . cannot wait!!!
 
Comeflywithme
Posts: 249
Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2006 7:51 pm

RE: Pictures Forbided On One Flt But Ok On The Other

Sat Dec 02, 2006 10:44 pm

Yes, seen as you can get pictures of anything on the web it does make a mockery of the "no photos" on this plane attitude.
I shall keep taking pics when flying and I never ask permission.

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