gh123
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Airbus Gives The Go-ahead For The A350

Fri Dec 01, 2006 10:11 pm

BBC Reports:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6198002.stm

Exciting stuff methinks!
 
leelaw
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RE: Airbus Gives The Go-ahead For The A350

Fri Dec 01, 2006 10:38 pm

According to the article there still hasn't been an official announcement as yet, hence its title: Airbus A350 'to get the go-ahead.'

Nevertheless, I find this phrase interesting:

According to an unidentified source quoted by Reuters, the board of EADS is 90% behind the plans to start producing the A350.

[Edited 2006-12-01 14:48:07]
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scouseflyer
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RE: Airbus Gives The Go-ahead For The A350

Fri Dec 01, 2006 10:40 pm

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 1):
According to an unidentified source quoted by Reuters, the board of EADS is 90% behind the plans to start producing the A350.

who has a 10% holding?  scratchchin 
 
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OA260
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RE: Airbus Gives The Go-ahead For The A350

Fri Dec 01, 2006 10:46 pm

The article says ''Electrical Faults'' caused some airlines to cancel orders!!! I thought it was wiring problems or is this just another word for the same thing?
 
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OA260
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RE: Airbus Gives The Go-ahead For The A350

Fri Dec 01, 2006 10:49 pm

The article says ''Electrical Faults'' caused some airlines to cancel orders of the A380!!! I thought it was wiring problems or is this just another word for the same thing?
 
scouseflyer
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RE: Airbus Gives The Go-ahead For The A350

Fri Dec 01, 2006 11:01 pm

To quote the article:

"The super-jumbo project had major setbacks, as electrical faults led to delivery delays which, in turn, prompted some customers to cancel their orders."

And yes they are the same thing! and only 1 has cancelled
 
NYC777
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RE: Airbus Gives The Go-ahead For The A350

Fri Dec 01, 2006 11:40 pm

Is the board meeting taking place. I haven't seen anything on the newswires sying that they've met or a decision has been made.
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NAV20
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RE: Airbus Gives The Go-ahead For The A350

Fri Dec 01, 2006 11:51 pm

Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 2):
who has a 10% holding?

'Technical issue' really, but the EADS Board has 11 members, of whom 5 are appointed by the French, 5 are appointed by the Germans, and 1 is appointed by the Spanish. 7 votes in favour are required for any decision.

I'm no mathematician - but, as far as I can see, on that basis, a '90%' opinion in favour is mathematically impossible?

[Edited 2006-12-01 15:53:14]
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scouseflyer
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RE: Airbus Gives The Go-ahead For The A350

Fri Dec 01, 2006 11:57 pm

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 6):
Is the board meeting taking place. I haven't seen anything on the newswires sying that they've met or a decision has been made.

There's a mention of it on www.ft.com but not many other places - the share price for EADS is also 4% up today - which suggests that good news may be on the way.....
 
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Revelation
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RE: Airbus Gives The Go-ahead For The A350

Sat Dec 02, 2006 1:09 am

Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 8):
There's a mention of it on www.ft.com but not many other places - the share price for EADS is also 4% up today - which suggests that good news may be on the way.....

Related article:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...le/2006/12/01/AR2006120100380.html
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Stitch
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RE: Airbus Gives The Go-ahead For The A350

Sat Dec 02, 2006 1:16 am

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 7):
'Technical issue' really, but the EADS Board has 11 members, of whom 5 are appointed by the French, 5 are appointed by the Germans, and 1 is appointed by the Spanish. 7 votes in favour are required for any decision.

I'm no mathematician - but, as far as I can see, on that basis, a '90%' opinion in favour is mathematically impossible?

Perhaps EADS is hoping for a unianimous decision for PR reasons?

Assuming the Spanish member is the "hold-out", I guess the Spanish government might want a bit more for their part in helping back the loans all four governments will support?

Or maybe it's Arnaud Lagardère? Is he the only representative from Lagardère SCA on the board?

Anyway, as you note, it's a moot point since they have a supermajority.
 
Avro85
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RE: Airbus Gives The Go-ahead For The A350

Sat Dec 02, 2006 1:34 am

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 7):
I'm no mathematician - but, as far as I can see, on that basis, a '90%' opinion in favour is mathematically impossible?

If 10 are in favor and one against it's 90.91 % of people in favor. The author probably just took the 90 % and didn't round it off to 91%  Wink
 
leelaw
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RE: Airbus Gives The Go-ahead For The A350

Sat Dec 02, 2006 1:43 am

IMO, being 90% behind a well-defined project is the equivalent of being 90% pregnant.  Smile
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leelaw
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RE: Airbus Gives The Go-ahead For The A350

Sat Dec 02, 2006 3:06 am

LONDON (Dow Jones)--European Aeronautic Defence & Space Co. plans to make a statement on Airbus' planned A350 XWB mid-sized airplane later Friday, according to a person familiar with the situation.

It is widely anticipated that EADS' statement will announce the formal launch of the plane, designed to compete with Boeing Co.'s strong-selling 787. A press conference is expected for Monday, this person said...


http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20061201-710821.html
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leelaw
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RE: Airbus Gives The Go-ahead For The A350

Sat Dec 02, 2006 3:55 am

Looks as though the Moderators decided to consolidate discussion in this thread, so here's the link from Manni's deleted threadstarter:

Airbus Wins Approval to Offer A350, Challenge Boeing (Update2)

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601085&sid=aslj1TPqUvH0
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lehpron
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RE: Airbus Gives The Go-ahead For The A350

Sat Dec 02, 2006 3:56 am

Quote:
An EADS board meeting on Friday will deal with outstanding issues, including a 10bn-euro (£6.8bn; $13bn) financing package, the Financial Times says

Christ, is that almost twice to develop 787 or are all the redesigns and that A350 is slightly aiming at 777 as well?
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scbriml
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RE: Airbus Gives The Go-ahead For The A350

Sat Dec 02, 2006 4:03 am

Quoting Lehpron (Reply 15):
Christ, is that almost twice to develop 787

Don't forget the $ has fallen a lot vs the € since Boeing launched the 787. Plus, if I remember correctly, the A350 is a 5-plane family from the get-go (-800, -900, -1000, -LR & -F).
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RE: Airbus Gives The Go-ahead For The A350

Sat Dec 02, 2006 4:27 am

I'm longingly awaiting some details on this. Until then, congrats to the folks at Airbus who've been able to keep their concentration on the A350 with all the turmoil going on there.
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NYC777
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RE: Airbus Gives The Go-ahead For The A350

Sat Dec 02, 2006 5:50 am

Ok a little bit more news off of Bloomberg:

A350 will enter service around 2013
A350 Development costs will be spread from 2007 to 2014
A350 will be funded mostly from company cashflows (Wonder how they're going to accomplish this one).
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breiz
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RE: Airbus Gives The Go-ahead For The A350

Sat Dec 02, 2006 5:52 am

 
leelaw
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RE: Airbus Gives The Go-ahead For The A350

Sat Dec 02, 2006 5:53 am

EADS Press Release:

EADS gives go ahead for Airbus to launch the A350 XWB

Amsterdam, 01 December 2006

The EADS Board of Directors has given the go ahead for Airbus to launch the industrial programme for the new A350 XWB airliner family. In doing so, the Board has assumed the full implementation of the Power8 competitiveness programme.

The A350 XWB - together with the A330/A340 aircraft family – will meet a market that requires some 5,700 new aircraft being delivered in the next two decades with more than US$ 1,000 bn value.

“The A350 XWB will be the most modern commercial aircraft and a step ahead of its competitor” said EADS CEOs Tom Enders and Louis Gallois. “With technologically advanced innovations, the new aircraft is designed to answer the customers’ strong demand with the most efficient and comfortable passenger aircraft in the world.”

The programme will give a tremendous boost to the aeronautical activity across Europe and will be a unique opportunity to bring on board new risk sharing partners, fully supporting EADS International strategy.

The A350 XWB is going to be financed predominantly from the company cash flows, with strong contribution from the Power8 programme and from risk sharing partners. The funding requirements going forward will be proactively managed in line with company policy to preserve a strong balance sheet. EADS expects to spread the development costs of the full XWB family over the years 2007 to 2014 with the bulk of spending occurring in 2010-2013...


http://www.eads.com/web/lang/en/1024...F00000040950509/9/13/41507139.html
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NYC777
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RE: Airbus Gives The Go-ahead For The A350

Sat Dec 02, 2006 6:00 am

So ifthe market demand is for 5700 of these high efficient new technology planes, then why didn't Airbus commit to building one from scratch in 2004?

Unfortunately they had to pulled kicking and screaming into the A350 project.
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breiz
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RE: Airbus Gives The Go-ahead For The A350

Sat Dec 02, 2006 6:02 am

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 20):
EADS Press Release

Gee, Leelaw, I managed to beat you by 1'15". A first  Smile
 
NYC777
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RE: Airbus Gives The Go-ahead For The A350

Sat Dec 02, 2006 6:10 am

Funny but now maintaining a CFRP fuselage is now longer an issue at Airbus. My how we quickly change our minds!! I think Boeing has had a more pursuasive argument with regards to CFRP and now Airbus is forced to go along (by the airlines).
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leelaw
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RE: Airbus Gives The Go-ahead For The A350

Sat Dec 02, 2006 6:27 am

Another EADS Press Release:

A350 XWB Family Receives Industrial Go-Ahead

Toulouse, 01 December 2006

Airbus was given the go-ahead for the industrial launch of the A350 XWB Family, a new medium capacity long-range extra wide-body Family from the Board of Directors of its parent company EADS. The decision is based on strong market demand and customer backing. Entry into service of the first A350 XWB is planned for 2013.

Conceived from the outset to become a comprehensive airliner Family, the A350 XWB will be available in three basic passenger versions, the A350-800 which can fly 270 passengers in a spacious three-class configuration up to 8,500nm / 15,750 km, the A350-900 seating 314, and the A350-1000 which is designed for 350, both with ranges of up to 8,300nm / 15,400 km. The three passenger versions have a cruise speed of Mach 0.85. As an ultra long-range aircraft, the A350-900R will fly even further. A freighter version, the A350-900F will complement the passenger models. According to its latest Global Market Forecast, Airbus estimates the demand for passenger and freighter aircraft in this category, for the next 20 years, at some 5,700 planes representing 41 per cent in terms of value of all new aircraft delivered above 100 seats.

“The A350 XWB has it all to become a great success - the most advanced technologies, the best economics and the highest level of comfort. It is a direct response to market demand,” says Louis Gallois, Airbus President and CEO, and co-CEO of EADS. “The decision follows a thorough review of all the resources available to ensure a smooth development of the Family backed by a very sound programme planning. Airbus remains a lead player in providing a complete range of modern airliners to its customers.”

With a cross section of 232 inches / 5.9 meters, the A350 XWB will benefit from the widest fuselage in its category, offering unprecedented levels of comfort in this market segment. It will also offer the lowest operating costs and lowest seat mile cost of any aircraft in that category. The Family is designed to confront the challenges of high fuel prices, rising passenger expectations, and environmental concerns in that market segment.

The A350 XWB will be powered by new generation Rolls-Royce Trent XWB engines delivering between 75,000 and 95,000lbs of thrust. Rolls Royce CEO, Sir John Rose, said: “We are very pleased to join Airbus for its A350 XWB programme. Together, we are committed to set new standards in fuel-efficiency, maintainability and engine reliability for the 21st century.”

To achieve this, the new A350 XWB will feature the latest innovations in terms of advanced technologies. Amongst those is the use of all-new, easy to maintain and much lighter Carbon Fibre Reinforced Plastic (CFRP) paneled fuselage skins. This innovation in manufacturing permits easier maintainability and reparability of individual airframe parts, while also allowing the structure of the panels to be much better optimized in terms of design to the stress and load requirements of each individual airframe part. Over 60 per cent of the airframe will be made of new materials.

Moreover, the fly-by-wire A350 XWB will have handling and flight deck operational commonality allowing airlines to benefit from the Airbus family concept of cross crew qualification and mixed fleet flying.


http://www.eads.com/web/lang/en/1024...F00000040950509/0/05/41508050.html
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mptpa
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RE: Airbus Gives The Go-ahead For The A350

Sat Dec 02, 2006 6:28 am

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 18):
A350 will enter service around 2013

When in 2013? It has 4 quarters!!! We should assume Q4/13 or Q4/14
A350 Development costs will be spread from 2007 to 2014
A350 will be funded mostly from company cashflows (Wonder how they're going to accomplish this one).

I read someplace that $4B will be govt subsidies from France, Germany, UK and Spain, and they plan to issue $8B on longterm Notes or Bonds.



Quoting Leelaw (Reply 20):
“The A350 XWB will be the most modern commercial aircraft and a step ahead of its competitor” said EADS CEOs Tom Enders and Louis Gallois.

How so??? CFRP "panels" makes it a step ahead of full CFRP barrels? OK then.....

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 20):
EADS expects to spread the development costs of the full XWB family over the years 2007 to 2014 with the bulk of spending occurring in 2010-2013

EIS in 2013, but the development cost is spread out to 2014? It means the certification will not be completed till 2014 or just some "tweaks"? I just hope that this does not turn out to be just another A380 because the problems with A380 was not technological; here they have purely revolutionary methods, material, supply chain (with 50% outsourced), etc.

Time will be interesting and exciting as the next 8 years roll by.

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 16):
the A350 is a 5-plane family from the get-go (-800, -900, -1000, -LR & -F).

I think they need to position this aircraft in a single sector as opposed to trying to reach many market segments. They have no way to know what Boeing has up its sleeves in terms of a- current product evolution for 777 line, b-next generation 777 or Y3. By the time A350 family is ready to tackle the upper end of the 777 market, there comes the Y3 with even more revolutionary product and even before A350 is out the blocks, they are behind. Finally, 777 is WIDER than XWB; it is great marketing for the masses and that is all.

Disclaimer: This is not a A vs B bash; I love aviation and technology and I want to see good competition for the sake of the future and technological evolution.
 
PVD757
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RE: Airbus Gives The Go-ahead For The A350

Sat Dec 02, 2006 6:41 am

Quoting Mptpa (Reply 25):
How so??? CFRP "panels" makes it a step ahead of full CFRP barrels? OK then.....

They're able to say this because it's not competing with the 787. It is technically 1 step ahead of the 777. The 787 just happens to now be two steps ahead. Wait til Boeing starts Y3...........
 
TeamAmerica
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RE: Airbus Gives The Go-ahead For The A350

Sat Dec 02, 2006 6:49 am

Quote:
This innovation in manufacturing permits easier maintainability and reparability of individual airframe parts, while also allowing the structure of the panels to be much better optimized in terms of design to the stress and load requirements of each individual airframe part.

Interesting. To what degree does Boeing's spun barrel construction compromise on optimization of "individual airframe parts"? Is it not possible to vary the tape thickness in various areas to achieve this optimization?

I strongly suspect that the added weight of fasteners/adhesives on the A350 will negate any gains by being able to make a particular panel a little thinner.
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zvezda
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RE: Airbus Gives The Go-ahead For The A350

Sat Dec 02, 2006 7:06 am

Quoting Mptpa (Reply 25):
How so??? CFRP "panels" makes it a step ahead of full CFRP barrels?

Panels are a stupid way to build a CFRP fuselage. I was hoping to see a return to the forward-thinking Airbus that built the A330 and A320. Such a disappointment. It seems Airbus are more interested in having all the latest buzzwords than they are in having the latest technology.  pessimist 

Quoting TeamAmerica (Reply 27):
To what degree does Boeing's spun barrel construction compromise on optimization of "individual airframe parts"? Is it not possible to vary the tape thickness in various areas to achieve this optimization?

I strongly suspect that the added weight of fasteners/adhesives on the A350 will negate any gains by being able to make a particular panel a little thinner.

One can optimize the thickness in any given area with either method. The joints and fasteners with the panel method will add a lot of weight.
 
TeamAmerica
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RE: Airbus Gives The Go-ahead For The A350

Sat Dec 02, 2006 7:30 am

 point  Boeing studied the CFRP panel concept and rejected it. From the Chicago Tribune: Boeing bets big on a plastic plane

"Building an airplane, aluminum or otherwise, is a mind-boggling exercise in evaluating risks versus rewards.

Initially, Boeing and its partners explored making each barrel of the 7E7's fuselage out of several large composite panels that would be bolted together to form a cylinder. That's the way aluminum planes are made.

One by one, however, the engineers began to see that this didn't make much sense. Bolting panels together means the edges of those panels have to be made thicker to accommodate the bolts. Not only would that add weight, but it would also require lots of seams and joints. Those connections would fatigue like aluminum and require regular rounds of expensive maintenance.

"When you got right down to it, there was no advantage," Statkus said. "It was like black aluminum. If it's just a panel here and a panel here and a panel here all bolted down, it's just like metal."

The more Boeing studied it, the more obvious the ideal solution became. If the engineers could invent a way to make a single, monolithic piece of composite for each barrel, the benefits would be enormous. Not only would single-piece barrels make for a lighter-weight airplane, they also would ensure that manufacturing one would be cheaper and faster. No rivets. No assembly. No expensive tools to hold pieces in place while they were being bolted together.

Once Statkus and the other converts saw the possibilities, there was no turning back.

So Statkus sequestered engineers from Boeing and its partners in a room filled with clay, cardboard and other modeling materials. Their mandate: Come up with a way to build a one-piece barrel.
"
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Stitch
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RE: Airbus Gives The Go-ahead For The A350

Sat Dec 02, 2006 7:45 am

Quoting PVD757 (Reply 26):
They're able to say this because it's not competing with the 787. It is technically 1 step ahead of the 777

Then that negates their claim of the A350XWB offering "the widest cabin in it's category" since a 777's is a good deal wider...  liar   Smile
 
AirbusDriver
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RE: Airbus Gives The Go-ahead For The A350

Sat Dec 02, 2006 7:51 am

I've seen a lots of really bad ramp rash over the year, how bad of an accident would required a 787 barrel to have to be replace?
 
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Stitch
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RE: Airbus Gives The Go-ahead For The A350

Sat Dec 02, 2006 7:54 am

Quoting AirbusDriver (Reply 31):
I've seen a lots of really bad ramp rash over the year, how bad of an accident would required a 787 barrel to have to be replace?

Probably one that would also "total" an Al-Li airliner (due to frame bending and such). I imagine Boeing can reliably and safely fix holes many feet in diameter, at minimum.
 
TeamAmerica
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RE: Airbus Gives The Go-ahead For The A350

Sat Dec 02, 2006 7:58 am

Quoting AirbusDriver (Reply 31):
I've seen a lots of really bad ramp rash over the year, how bad of an accident would required a 787 barrel to have to be replace?

I've argued in previous threads that ramp rash will no longer be accepted as inevitable. If the cost of damage to aircraft is high enough, it will be avoided by stricter controls on ground operations. Once upon a time we accepted injuries to personnel as a part of life, but now we know better and act with safety as a paramount concern. A similar change of mindset regarding damage to aircraft is coming.
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Richard28
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RE: Airbus Gives The Go-ahead For The A350

Sat Dec 02, 2006 8:10 am

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 18):

A350 will be funded mostly from company cashflows (Wonder how they're going to accomplish this one).

By the proposed large increase in output of the A32X series?
 
AirbusDriver
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RE: Airbus Gives The Go-ahead For The A350

Sat Dec 02, 2006 8:15 am

Quoting TeamAmerica (Reply 33):

I've argued in previous threads that ramp rash will no longer be accepted as inevitable. If the cost of damage to aircraft is high enough, it will be avoided by stricter controls on ground operations. Once upon a time we accepted injuries to personnel as a part of life, but now we know better and act with safety as a paramount concern. A similar change of mindset regarding damage to aircraft is coming.

I've got to disagree with you here, here at USAIR we already operate like this,
but tight space, night, rain, fuel truck, catering, bag carts etc this will never happen.

In the last 2 year I've 2 ramp rash, with grounded the plane for the day.
I look at the 737 and see hundreds of ramps rash repairs, my question is would you ever had to change a barrel, or is paneling the way to go.
 
scouseflyer
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RE: Airbus Gives The Go-ahead For The A350

Sat Dec 02, 2006 8:17 am

Quoting Richard28 (Reply 34):
Quoting NYC777 (Reply 18):

A350 will be funded mostly from company cashflows (Wonder how they're going to accomplish this one).

By the proposed large increase in output of the A32X series?

and the A380 should start bringing home the bacon by then too.

They've called a press conf for Monday morning - I expect so order announcements then. Anyone want to run a book on what they might be.

SQ - definitely
LH - possibly (ties in with Johnny's comments that it will come out in December)
QR - possible
 
TeamAmerica
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RE: Airbus Gives The Go-ahead For The A350

Sat Dec 02, 2006 8:35 am

Quoting AirbusDriver (Reply 35):
this will never happen

Like I said, it requires a change of mindset. When the cost of repairing damage exceeds the cost of preventing it, we will. With enough money you can add proximity sensors and intelligent controllers to all ground equipment...make carts that refuse to be banged into an aircraft. You will find "smart" equipment exactly like this in warehouses and on factory floors today. No reason why the flight line can't be "smarter" as well.

The issue of the paint on the 787 engine nacelles comes to mind. Boeing says having a paint seam on the nacelle would add $30,000/year in additional fuel costs. I imagine that scratching the paint will have consequences as well. When airlines catch on to the costs of even minor ramp rash, they'll spend money to prevent it. It's a basic cost-benefit calculation.
Failure is not an option; it's an outcome.
 
zvezda
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RE: Airbus Gives The Go-ahead For The A350

Sat Dec 02, 2006 8:36 am

Quoting AirbusDriver (Reply 31):
I've seen a lots of really bad ramp rash over the year, how bad of an accident would required a 787 barrel to have to be replace?

About as bad as what would require an aluminium airliner to be scrapped.
 
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Stitch
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RE: Airbus Gives The Go-ahead For The A350

Sat Dec 02, 2006 8:50 am

Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 36):
They've called a press conf for Monday morning - I expect so order announcements then. Anyone want to run a book on what they might be.

SQ - definitely
LH - possibly (ties in with Johnny's comments that it will come out in December)
QR - possible

I wonder if SQ will actually commit or if they will maintain their LoI/MoU. They're going to have to start replacing 772ERs before the A359 and A3510 EIS so that means more 777s or the 787-10. At that point, Boeing might make SQ a serious offer on a large order and "wrap them up".

I expect QR will firm-up as they've already committed to the A350.

LH could go either way. Unless they're sitting on 787 delivery slots nobody knows about, it's going to be a wash for them on availability.
 
Thorben
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RE: Airbus Gives The Go-ahead For The A350

Sat Dec 02, 2006 8:53 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 39):
I wonder if SQ will actually commit or if they will maintain their LoI/MoU. They're going to have to start replacing 772ERs before the A359 and A3510 EIS so that means more 777s or the 787-10.

Or A330s?
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DfwRevolution
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RE: Airbus Gives The Go-ahead For The A350

Sat Dec 02, 2006 8:54 am

Quoting AirbusDriver (Reply 35):
I look at the 737 and see hundreds of ramps rash repairs, my question is would you ever had to change a barrel, or is paneling the way to go.

No, you would never have to replace a barrel segment for ramp rash. The type of damage caused by ramp rash typically consist of abrasions, scratches, and minor punctures. Those can be repaired with various patch methods listed in the Boeing SRM.

The damage necessary to cut the fuselage apart and insert a new barrel segment would be major damage that would also require months of downtime in a metallic aircraft (or a complete write-off).
 
scouseflyer
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RE: Airbus Gives The Go-ahead For The A350

Sat Dec 02, 2006 9:02 am

Quoting Thorben (Reply 40):
Quoting Stitch (Reply 39):
I wonder if SQ will actually commit or if they will maintain their LoI/MoU. They're going to have to start replacing 772ERs before the A359 and A3510 EIS so that means more 777s or the 787-10.

Or A330s?

 checkmark 

They're taking those 19 A330s to tide them over until the A350s arrive
 
DIA
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RE: Airbus Gives The Go-ahead For The A350

Sat Dec 02, 2006 9:20 am

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 24):
The A350 XWB will be powered by new generation Rolls-Royce Trent XWB engines delivering between 75,000 and 95,000lbs of thrust.

There goes any A350 order from Air France.
Ding! You are now free to keep supporting Frontier.
 
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ER757
Posts: 2426
Joined: Tue May 10, 2005 10:16 am

RE: Airbus Gives The Go-ahead For The A350

Sat Dec 02, 2006 9:30 am

Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 36):
Anyone want to run a book on what they might be.

SQ - definitely
LH - possibly (ties in with Johnny's comments that it will come out in December)
QR - possible

QR firming up would be nice for Aibus' order book, that's for sure.
LH - if Johnny's insights from the past couple weeks are accurate, then they are a real good bet (split order A&B - 748i's and A350's)
I'll throw in one more - a surprise order - EK
 
7cubed
Posts: 121
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2006 6:02 am

RE: Airbus Gives The Go-ahead For The A350

Sat Dec 02, 2006 9:37 am

"a350 is superior", "al li is superior", "a330 with a new wing is as good"...

ass+smoke=airbus Big grin
joe
 
lehpron
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Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2001 3:42 am

RE: Airbus Gives The Go-ahead For The A350

Sat Dec 02, 2006 9:57 am

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 21):
So ifthe market demand is for 5700 of these high efficient new technology planes, then why didn't Airbus commit to building one from scratch in 2004?

Markets develop by the changing needs of customers. They do not sit around waiting to be discovered. Companies have to decide if a product development is worth pursuing with technology and resources avilable to them at a cost.

Customers have needs, it is up to the companies to decide how best to fill the need. If a company cannot produce a product, depending on the customers strategy, they can either go for another company or wait for the position to be filled.
The meaning of life is curiosity; we were put on this planet to explore opportunities.
 
siromega
Posts: 564
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2005 11:57 am

RE: Airbus Gives The Go-ahead For The A350

Sat Dec 02, 2006 9:59 am

Quoting Mptpa (Reply 25):
EIS in 2013, but the development cost is spread out to 2014? It means the certification will not be completed till 2014 or just some "tweaks"? I just hope that this does not turn out to be just another A380 because the problems with A380 was not technological; here they have purely revolutionary methods, material, supply chain (with 50% outsourced), etc.

I think the R&D in 2014 is probably associated with other versions of the aircraft. From another thread I recall estimates of a EIS for the -1000 model not until 2015.

And now I really wonder whether this will hurt sales of the NSR. If Boeing hits with Y1 in 2015, I highly doubt Airbus would have a reply ready until 2018 at the earliest. There simply isnt enough engineering talent around to take this long with the XWB and then move to the NSR.

Airbus needs to hope that this 350 kills the 777 sales and Boeing switches to Y3 from Y1 to reply.
 
11Bravo
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Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 8:54 am

RE: Airbus Gives The Go-ahead For The A350

Sat Dec 02, 2006 10:11 am

I think orders will be more than a bit slow for a while. We may see some LoIs, but I'd bet lots of airlines are going to wait and see if there's some program stability this time.

I think the A380 delays and the ever changing A350 program have created some pretty serious confidence problems. Customers are going to want a cutting-edge design AND 6-12 months of stable program development before they commit their fleet plans and money.

Airbus really needs to do something about their development times. As it stands, Boeing will have the opportunity to wait a year, or even two, and put their B787 engineering and production experience into a Y3 with basically the same EIS as the A350.
WhaleJets Rule!
 
7cubed
Posts: 121
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2006 6:02 am

RE: Airbus Gives The Go-ahead For The A350

Sat Dec 02, 2006 10:16 am

Quoting 11Bravo (Reply 48):
Airbus really needs to do something about their development times. As it stands, Boeing will have the opportunity to wait a year, or even two, and put their B787 engineering and production experience into a Y3 with basically the same EIS as the A350

I agree, it will be interesting to see which direction B goes next, y1 or y3. I've got money on Y1.

[Edited 2006-12-02 02:17:21]
joe

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