User avatar
solnabo
Posts: 5021
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 8:53 am

FedEX And 757´s

Sat Dec 02, 2006 2:31 am

Reading n watching all these 757´s flying and successfully so, my question is how will FX get all these +50 they ordered to replace 727´s??

Micke//  Confused
Airbus SAS - Love them both
 
futurecaptain
Posts: 1918
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2006 1:54 am

RE: FedEX And 757´s

Sat Dec 02, 2006 3:34 am

Over time. Over several years as airlines eventually replace these birds when they get older. The oldest ones have been flying for over 20 years and will most likely have enough hours/cycles on them that the owner is starting to look at replacement.

In any case, it will be a gradual replacement of the 727's, taking many years.
AirSO. ASpaceO. ASOnline. ASO.com ASO. ASO. ASO. ASO. ASO.
 
User avatar
solnabo
Posts: 5021
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 8:53 am

RE: FedEX And 757´s

Sat Dec 02, 2006 3:48 am

I was thinking of the 757 success, flying long haul over the pond with the winglet equipment there´s high time for Everett to open a new production line for 757...

Seriously the 757 will be a great replacement for 727! What the everage age of FX B727, 20-25 years?

Micke//  wave 
Airbus SAS - Love them both
 
dutchjet
Posts: 7714
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

RE: FedEX And 757´s

Sat Dec 02, 2006 4:01 am

Quoting Futurecaptain (Reply 1):
Over time. Over several years as airlines eventually replace these birds when they get older. The oldest ones have been flying for over 20 years and will most likely have enough hours/cycles on them that the owner is starting to look at replacement.

In any case, it will be a gradual replacement of the 727's, taking many years.

I agree, in the coming years, we will begin seeing some airlines phasing out their 757s in favor of newer airplanes.....for example, a good number of early build ex-BA 757s are now with DHL. This will be a long process.

Quoting Solnabo (Reply 2):
Seriously the 757 will be a great replacement for 727! What the everage age of FX B727, 20-25 years?

Consider that many of Fedex's 727s have very very low utilization rates.......sometimes as low as 3 or 4 hours per day doing one turn from a Fedex hub to a out station. This is why Fedex is interested primarily in used aircraft for this mission......the numbers cannot support new aircraft purchases. The 727s still have many years left (and due to the low utilization, the fact that the 727s are not the most fuel effecient airplanes around is not a very big issue) until enough 757s are acquired to replace the fleet.

Fedex's 727-200s were the last 15 727s to come off the line and I think that these airplanes have been re-engined.

Quoting Solnabo (Reply 2):
I was thinking of the 757 success, flying long haul over the pond with the winglet equipment there´s high time for Everett to open a new production line for 757...

The 757 line is gone....and finished, it cannot be re-opened, its history at this point in time. Its doubtful whether airlines would be interested in ordering more 757s, airlines are simply using their 757s in different missions right now (such as transatlantic) because the 737NG and A32X have taken over many of the missions once flown by the 757. The 757 is one of the most versatile airplanes around and a personal all-time favorite, but there is really no need to put it back into prodcution even if it could be done.
 
HPRamper
Posts: 4603
Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 4:22 am

RE: FedEX And 757´s

Sat Dec 02, 2006 4:50 am

FX might be getting some calls from US in the not too distant future  Smile
 
User avatar
fxramper
Posts: 5837
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 12:03 pm

RE: FedEX And 757´s

Sat Dec 02, 2006 4:52 am

We are talking to UA and AA about buying frames.

There are approx 40+ laying around not being used.

Regards.
 
User avatar
SLCUT2777
Posts: 3407
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 12:17 am

RE: FedEX And 757´s

Sat Dec 02, 2006 5:30 am

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 4):
FX might be getting some calls from US in the not too distant future

I echo that since US will dump all the DL 752s (121 to date) and go strictly with Airbus. But I'm confident that merger will fizzle.
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: FedEX And 757´s

Sat Dec 02, 2006 5:41 am

What? US couldn't dump a fleet of 121 757s even if they wanted to.

They would need that capacity.

N
 
wjcandee
Posts: 5189
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

RE: FedEX And 757´s

Sat Dec 02, 2006 5:51 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 3):
a good number of early build ex-BA 757s are now with DHL.

That's really only because of the cyclical market for the 757. For a while, the type was moribund, and pax airline demand was low enough that the capital cost of the aircraft made them suitable for freighter conversions. Now that the type has enjoyed a bit of a renaissance as narrowbody-across-the-pond is deemed acceptable, they will be slower to go to freight, but go they eventually will. The conversion guys are all lined up waiting for suitable airframes.

High fuel prices and the high efficiency of the airframes have also increased the demand for them.
 
wjcandee
Posts: 5189
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

RE: FedEX And 757´s

Sat Dec 02, 2006 5:54 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 3):
The 727s still have many years left (and due to the low utilization, the fact that the 727s are not the most fuel effecient airplanes around is not a very big issue) until enough 757s are acquired to replace the fleet.

Exactly. And the rest of your post is dead-on as well.

Quoting FXramper (Reply 5):
There are approx 40+ laying around not being used.

Wow. That's amazing. I had no idea. Where are they? Who owns them?
 
dutchjet
Posts: 7714
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

RE: FedEX And 757´s

Sat Dec 02, 2006 6:14 am

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 6):

I echo that since US will dump all the DL 752s (121 to date) and go strictly with Airbus. But I'm confident that merger will fizzle.



Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 6):
What? US couldn't dump a fleet of 121 757s even if they wanted to.

They would need that capacity.

N

If the US/DL merger goes though.......my guess would be that Delta's PW powered 757 fleet would remain, and the smaller US/HP RR fleet would be disposed of.........consider that US has some early build ex-EA examples, HP had some ex-EA airplanes as well, and HP had the early build Republic 757s in their fleet. A combined US/DL would shed some airplanes, and its possible that 757s would be given up (although with their new roles on thin transatlantic services for US already and possibly DL in the future, and on some PHX/LAS-Hawaii routes, its hard to imagine the combined airline able to give up any 757s).

Quoting FXramper (Reply 5):
We are talking to UA and AA about buying frames.

Interesting - that is something I would not have expected.

Quoting FXramper (Reply 5):
There are approx 40+ laying around not being used.

With US carriers? The only parked 757s that I was aware of were the NW birds that are being brought back into service.
 
AirbusA6
Posts: 1495
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2005 5:53 am

RE: FedEX And 757´s

Sat Dec 02, 2006 6:28 am

Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 8):
Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 3):
a good number of early build ex-BA 757s are now with DHL.

That's really only because of the cyclical market for the 757. For a while, the type was moribund, and pax airline demand was low enough that the capital cost of the aircraft made them suitable for freighter conversions. Now that the type has enjoyed a bit of a renaissance as narrowbody-across-the-pond is deemed acceptable, they will be slower to go to freight, but go they eventually will. The conversion guys are all lined up waiting for suitable airframes.

High fuel prices and the high efficiency of the airframes have also increased the demand for them.

Many of BA's 757s had the lower powered RB211-535C, so I presume they couldn't make it across the pond?
it's the bus to stansted (now renamed National Express a6 to ruin my username)
 
User avatar
fxramper
Posts: 5837
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 12:03 pm

RE: FedEX And 757´s

Sat Dec 02, 2006 6:45 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 10):

With US carriers? The only parked 757s that I was aware of were the NW birds that are being brought back into service.

I wasn't that specific. I do know there are around that many frames waiting to be snatched up.

Wait and see...
 
dutchjet
Posts: 7714
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

RE: FedEX And 757´s

Sat Dec 02, 2006 7:01 am

Quoting FXramper (Reply 12):
Wait and see...

Thanks for the ""preview""........this will be interesting to watch.
 
FriendlySkies
Posts: 3540
Joined: Fri Aug 13, 2004 3:57 pm

RE: FedEX And 757´s

Sat Dec 02, 2006 7:25 am

Quoting FXramper (Reply 5):
We are talking to UA and AA about buying frames.

That surprises me...UA doesn't have anything to replace these with and they use all of their frames...
 
commavia
Posts: 9821
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:30 am

RE: FedEX And 757´s

Sat Dec 02, 2006 7:44 am

Quoting FXramper (Reply 5):
We are talking to UA and AA about buying frames.

There are approx 40+ laying around not being used.

American's entire 757 fleet is being used, with a few more ex-TWA still left to leave. I don't think American going to be selling any anytime soon.
 
vv701
Posts: 5783
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 10:54 am

RE: FedEX And 757´s

Sat Dec 02, 2006 9:32 am

Quoting AirbusA6 (Reply 11):
Many of BA's 757s had the lower powered RB211-535C, so I presume they couldn't make it across the pond?

I think this is correct. But interestingly BA was one of the first airlines to operate the 757 on scheduled flights across the North Atlantic.

In late 1994 they took two of their still current aircraft, G-BPEC and 'EE out of service and converted their cabins to carry 156 passengers (18C / 138Y). One , G-BPEE, was put into service on the GLA-JFK-BOS route - I think the return flight was BOS-JFK-GLA and not BOS-GLA. The other, G-BPEC, was put into service on the BHX-JFK-YYZ-JFK-BHX route. I believe the first of these services was withdrawn at the end of the summer schedules in 1997 and the BHX service a year later.

Prior to the above services I believe the wholly owned BA subsidiary, Caledonian Airways, was operating on a regular basis out of LGW to holiday destinations such as MCO
 
vv701
Posts: 5783
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 10:54 am

RE: FedEX And 757´s

Sat Dec 02, 2006 9:38 am

Quoting VV701 (Reply 16):
The other, G-BPEC, was put into service on the BHX-JFK-YYZ-JFK-BHX route.

Here it is at YYZ taxiing for departure to JFK:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © John Kelley

 
Boeing Nut
Posts: 5078
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2001 2:42 am

RE: FedEX And 757´s

Sat Dec 02, 2006 9:41 am

I've said it before and I'll say it again... there are some board members at Boeing are regretting cancelling the 757 line. Yea, yea, I know, but didn't the 747 at one time have orders that numbered in the upper teens for the entire year and it's still going. Stronger interest in longer, thinner routes, new interest in the freighter, still one of the most efficient narrow bodies out there...

Some at Boeing are doing this right now over cancelling the 757...  banghead 
I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.
 
dutchjet
Posts: 7714
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

RE: FedEX And 757´s

Sat Dec 02, 2006 9:55 am

Quoting Boeing Nut (Reply 18):
there are some board members at Boeing are regretting cancelling the 757 line.

This is probably not true.....Boeing thought long and hard before cancelling the 757 program and airlines were not interested in placing new orders for the type. It has been reported that Boeing made a killer offer to Fedex for new build 757Fs, and Fedex passed since the airplanes were still too expensive for the missions that the airplanes were to be assigned to. CO, NW and US are using 757s across the Atlantic not because the 752 is the ideal transatlantic airliner, its not, they are using the 752s simply because they have them, they make sense on the thin routes that they service, and the missions previously handled by the 757s are now being flown by A32X and 737NG aircraft (ie, US transon routes). US carriers are dedicating more airplanes to international service (since there is more money to be made in that market) and the 752 is part of the shift of resources to longer range flying. The 757 was most popular with US carriers, and its unlikely that any of them would order newbuild 757s at this time.

The 753 was the undiscovered gem of the 757 family, with absolutely amazing operating costs on a per seat basis.....rumor has it that NW was sorry that it did not place an order for additional 753s after NW decided to use the 753 on West Coast-Hawaii services. CO probably was sorry that it insisted on cancelling orders for 6 newbuild 753s (CO originally ordered 15 753s but only accepted 9 of the type and swapped the remaining order for 738s) but CO did acquire the ex-ATA 753s on very good terms.

The 757 is one hell of an airplane, and will be key component of the fleets of major airlines (especially in the US) for many many years to come, but there was no longer demand for the type........most (but not all) of the missions handled by the 757 can be covered by the 737NG/A32X aircraft and the 739ER is a more capable alternative.
 
User avatar
yyz717
Posts: 15689
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2001 12:26 pm

RE: FedEX And 757´s

Sat Dec 02, 2006 10:17 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 3):
Fedex's 727-200s were the last 15 727s to come off the line and I think that these airplanes have been re-engined.

More correctly, the Fedex fleet of 89 722's INCLUDES the last 15 722's off the line, and the only purpose-built 722F's. 11 of these have the Valsan conversion. The Valsan conversion on the remaining 4 was cancelled.

These 15 722F's will likely be the last 722's to leave the Fedex fleet.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
flydreamliner
Posts: 1928
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2006 7:05 am

RE: FedEX And 757´s

Sat Dec 02, 2006 12:43 pm

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 6):
I echo that since US will dump all the DL 752s (121 to date) and go strictly with Airbus. But I'm confident that merger will fizzle.

Are you secretly Mr. Leahy?

Not even in the best dream Airbus has would that happen.
"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
 
deltajet757
Posts: 228
Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2006 1:26 pm

RE: FedEX And 757´s

Sun Dec 03, 2006 2:58 am

If the 757 is such a popular aircraft (which it is) I don't understand why Boeing won't start making them again.
FLY DELTA JETS
 
dutchjet
Posts: 7714
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

RE: FedEX And 757´s

Sun Dec 03, 2006 3:12 am

Quoting Deltajet757 (Reply 22):
If the 757 is such a popular aircraft (which it is) I don't understand why Boeing won't start making them again.

This is why.........

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 19):

This is probably not true.....Boeing thought long and hard before cancelling the 757 program and airlines were not interested in placing new orders for the type. It has been reported that Boeing made a killer offer to Fedex for new build 757Fs, and Fedex passed since the airplanes were still too expensive for the missions that the airplanes were to be assigned to. CO, NW and US are using 757s across the Atlantic not because the 752 is the ideal transatlantic airliner, its not, they are using the 752s simply because they have them, they make sense on the thin routes that they service, and the missions previously handled by the 757s are now being flown by A32X and 737NG aircraft (ie, US transon routes). US carriers are dedicating more airplanes to international service (since there is more money to be made in that market) and the 752 is part of the shift of resources to longer range flying. The 757 was most popular with US carriers, and its unlikely that any of them would order newbuild 757s at this time.

The 753 was the undiscovered gem of the 757 family, with absolutely amazing operating costs on a per seat basis.....rumor has it that NW was sorry that it did not place an order for additional 753s after NW decided to use the 753 on West Coast-Hawaii services. CO probably was sorry that it insisted on cancelling orders for 6 newbuild 753s (CO originally ordered 15 753s but only accepted 9 of the type and swapped the remaining order for 738s) but CO did acquire the ex-ATA 753s on very good terms.

The 757 is one hell of an airplane, and will be key component of the fleets of major airlines (especially in the US) for many many years to come, but there was no longer demand for the type........most (but not all) of the missions handled by the 757 can be covered by the 737NG/A32X aircraft and the 739ER is a more capable alternative.

And.....

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 3):

The 757 line is gone....and finished, it cannot be re-opened, its history at this point in time. Its doubtful whether airlines would be interested in ordering more 757s, airlines are simply using their 757s in different missions right now (such as transatlantic) because the 737NG and A32X have taken over many of the missions once flown by the 757. The 757 is one of the most versatile airplanes around and a personal all-time favorite, but there is really no need to put it back into prodcution even if it could be done.

The 757 line no longer exists, the tools and supplier network is gone, its over.
 
HPRamper
Posts: 4603
Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 4:22 am

RE: FedEX And 757´s

Sun Dec 03, 2006 3:13 am

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 6):
echo that since US will dump all the DL 752s (121 to date) and go strictly with Airbus. But I'm confident that merger will fizzle.

Ditching 757s for A321s would be a horrible mistake, and one no airline is stupid enough to do.

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 10):
my guess would be that Delta's PW powered 757 fleet would remain, and the smaller US/HP RR fleet would be disposed of.........consider that US has some early build ex-EA examples, HP had some ex-EA airplanes as well, and HP had the early build Republic 757s in their fleet.

 checkmark  Agreed. Get rid of those delay machines they have running the PHX/LAS-Hawaii routes. Good riddance.
 
dutchjet
Posts: 7714
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

RE: FedEX And 757´s

Sun Dec 03, 2006 3:16 am

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 24):
Ditching 757s for A321s would be a horrible mistake, and one no airline is stupid enough to do.

Agreed......if the 757s were replaced with A321s, PHX and LAS would be very ugly places on hot summer days........operations would be a mess. The A321 is a nice airplane, but it does not have the performance offered by the 757.
 
474218
Posts: 4510
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 12:27 pm

RE: FedEX And 757´s

Sun Dec 03, 2006 4:43 am

Quoting Deltajet757 (Reply 22):
If the 757 is such a popular aircraft (which it is) I don't understand why Boeing won't start making them again.

If the 757 was a popular as everyone is making them out to be, Boeing would still be building them. Boeing stopped production of the 757 because the orders for them dried up.
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: FedEX And 757´s

Sun Dec 03, 2006 5:02 am

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 24):
Ditching 757s for A321s would be a horrible mistake, and one no airline is stupid enough to do.



Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 25):
Agreed......if the 757s were replaced with A321s, PHX and LAS would be very ugly places on hot summer days........operations would be a mess

Hardly. BA and US both are examples of airlines that have.

The A321 will be a superior craft for West Coast routes from PHX and LAS, which is why US has ordered a new set of them. The 757 isn't necessary to fly those routes. Even on a hot day the A321 is a stellar field performer.

Use the 757 for what routes its needed for.

NS
 
dutchjet
Posts: 7714
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

RE: FedEX And 757´s

Sun Dec 03, 2006 5:08 am

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 27):

Hardly. BA and US both are examples of airlines that have.

The A321 will be a superior craft for West Coast routes from PHX and LAS, which is why US has ordered a new set of them. The 757 isn't necessary to fly those routes. Even on a hot day the A321 is a stellar field performer.

Use the 757 for what routes its needed for.

NS

As any ex-HP operations person about sending out a fully loaded A321 on a PHX or LAS to the US east coast flight on a hot summer day and get back to me.

Note that BA has retained several 757s. Also note that US has a 757 fleet that is flown along side the A321.......nothing against the A321, but it does not have the performance that the 757 offers........every think about why America West never replaced their 757s with A321s?