JAM747
Topic Author
Posts: 524
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 12:17 am

Big Changes In Aviation Due To Aircraft Accidents?

Sat Dec 02, 2006 9:55 am

What are some of the the big changes to aviation that has happened due aircraft accidents? During the history of aviation there have been some very terrible accidents and air disaster resulting in loss of life. Unfortuately it was not untill these accidents occured that certain steps were put in to prevent such tragedies from happening or reduce the loss of life if they do happen. What are some of these changes that were put in place that have improved aviation safety?
 
OPNLguy
Posts: 11191
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 1999 11:29 am

RE: Big Changes In Aviation Due To Aircraft Accidents?

Sat Dec 02, 2006 10:11 am

A major accident that made a lot of safety improvments possible was the Delta 191 accident at DFW back in 1985. The aircraft involved, a L-1011 had a digital flight data recorder (DFDR) and it recorded many more data parameters than was the norm compared with many other aircraft flying back then that recorded fewer. That increased level of captured data helped with:

1. Dr. Ted Fujita's research on microburst windshear.

2. Refinements in flight simulator programming so that all crews could fly 191's encounter themselves.

3. The development of Terminal Doppler Weather Radar (TDWR).

4. The development of predictive and reactive windshear programming for use on the aircraft.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
lazyshaun
Posts: 550
Joined: Sat May 07, 2005 5:50 am

RE: Big Changes In Aviation Due To Aircraft Accidents?

Sat Dec 02, 2006 10:22 am

How about the Concorde crash in France? Largely contributing factor to its retirement by both AF and BA.

AS MD80 that crashed due to the back tailwings (sorry, don't know their name) braking and it crashing into the sea (?) from full height? Lead to an investigation concluding that the part responsible for the manueovering of it not being properly greased by AS (and apparently other carriers)
BTW, I only saw this on a programme a little while ago, so that is why I can't remember too much. Plus it was on C5...


Also, not major for aviation, but recently some crashes in Africa, especially Nigeria, have resulted in the Airlines' licence for flying being taken away by the govt.

There are plenty more, and I'm sure people will fill in Smile
I came. I saw. I conquered
 
Vref5
Posts: 187
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2005 2:55 pm

RE: Big Changes In Aviation Due To Aircraft Accide

Sat Dec 02, 2006 10:45 am

Development of the Ground Proximity Warning System (GPWS), which finally became a reality due to crashes in 1970-1971 including the loss of the aircraft carrying a large number of Marshall University football team members. (The movie about its aftermath in football, titled 'We are Marshall' is coming out in three weeks.)

The NTSB report concerning the 1970 Marshall crash, released in 1972:

http://www.marshall.edu/library/spec...m/Memorial/pdfs/NTSB-AAR-72-11.pdf

See printed page 68 of the PDF document file (or PDF document page 75) for that recommendation. GPWS hasn't been foolproof, but it's helped with aviation safety.
 
mpdpilot
Posts: 695
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2006 6:44 am

RE: Big Changes In Aviation Due To Aircraft Accidents?

Sat Dec 02, 2006 10:50 am

The 737 had a problem with its rudder for a while where it would go to a full deflection in certian curcumstances resulting in two aircraft crashing. this resulted in a new part on the 737 to fix the problem and also I think it contributed to newer aircraft having more than one yaw control surfaces.

there is also that saying "FARs are writen in blood"
One mile of highway gets you one mile, one mile of runway gets you anywhere.
 
flyboy_se
Posts: 709
Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2000 5:31 am

RE: Big Changes In Aviation Due To Aircraft Accidents?

Sat Dec 02, 2006 10:52 am

Since Pan Am crash over Lockerbie, everybody have to travel with their checked in luggage.If you dont show up at the gate they have to offload your luggage.
I prefer to be crazy and happy rather than normal and bitter
 
zanl188
Posts: 3447
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2006 9:05 pm

RE: Big Changes In Aviation Due To Aircraft Accidents?

Sat Dec 02, 2006 10:55 am

One of the big ones was the Knute Rockne Fokker accident that resulted in the abandonment of wood as an airliner structural material.
Legal considerations provided by: Dewey, Cheatum, and Howe
 
Vref5
Posts: 187
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2005 2:55 pm

RE: Big Changes In Aviation Due To Aircraft Accide

Sat Dec 02, 2006 10:58 am

Research and development of the 'artificial horizon' (attitude indicator) and the 'heading indicator' (directional gyro) by General Jimmy Doolittle. This technology allowed him to demonstrate instrument-based flying.

For one thing, you had a longer lifespan if you ended up in instrument flying weather, with the improved cockpit technology and navigational aids. That was a particular issue that bedeviled early aviation.

Even to this day, some private pilots still continues to reap the benefits of instruments-based flying. Sometimes as a means to get somewhere without being confined to great weather, and sometimes as a means to get out of a situation gone really bad in a hurry.

In commercial aviation, it essentially means that a qualified flight crew, runway, and aircraft can land in extremely poor weather without undue concern about survivability when coupled with expertise and other assistive tools.
 
Vref5
Posts: 187
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2005 2:55 pm

RE: Big Changes In Aviation Due To Aircraft Accidents?

Sat Dec 02, 2006 11:01 am

Crew Resource Management (CRM) developed out of a NASA safety seminar in 1979 as a means to provide more effective crew interaction and using all possible resources to avoid accidents.
 
EMBQA
Posts: 7798
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 3:52 am

RE: Big Changes In Aviation Due To Aircraft Accidents?

Sat Dec 02, 2006 11:03 am

Every single major accident over the last 30 or so years dictated changes in the way commercial aviation flies. Just off the top of my head...

Valujet 592- mandated fire detection and supression in all cargo holds. It also drove changes in how airlines with work with Part 145 Repair Stations.

United 232- Major changes in cockpit crew resources training and use.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
EWRCabincrew
Posts: 4306
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 2:37 am

RE: Big Changes In Aviation Due To Aircraft Accidents?

Sat Dec 02, 2006 11:09 am

Air Canada DC-9 in CVG, brought about changes in aisle path lighting in dense smoke onboard.
You can't cure stupid
 
Vref5
Posts: 187
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2005 2:55 pm

RE: Big Changes In Aviation Due To Aircraft Accidents?

Sat Dec 02, 2006 11:10 am

Quoting MPDPilot (Reply 4):
The 737 had a problem with its rudder for a while where it would go to a full deflection in certian curcumstances resulting in two aircraft crashing. this resulted in a new part on the 737 to fix the problem and also I think it contributed to newer aircraft having more than one yaw control surfaces.

there is also that saying "FARs are writen in blood"

Indeed (re: the quote).

The crashes of the '70s and '80s exposed the dangers of having single points of failure in aircraft systems. E.g. American Airlines 191 crash at O'Hare in 1979, United Airlines 232 Sioux City crash in 1989.

These accidents and others led to revamped aircraft design which made it much more fault tolerant in all but the most extreme circumstances.
 
ZBBYLW
Posts: 1612
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 8:17 am

RE: Big Changes In Aviation Due To Aircraft Accidents?

Sat Dec 02, 2006 11:22 am

WOW, i am surprised no one has mentioned 11/Sept/01... the only thing really changed on aircraft would be to strengthen the cockpit doors, but procedure has changed drastically. No longer can people go up and see the cockpit in flight, people can not gather in big groups, no one allowed into front galley when pilot has to go to the washroom etc, i think this would have been the most influental "accident" in history.
Keep the shinny side up!
 
EWRCabincrew
Posts: 4306
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 2:37 am

RE: Big Changes In Aviation Due To Aircraft Accidents?

Sat Dec 02, 2006 11:26 am

Quoting ZBBYLW (Reply 12):
No longer can people go up and see the cockpit in flight,

At least in the US, that wasn't a change. But you are right, that that wasn't brought up earlier.
You can't cure stupid
 
OPNLguy
Posts: 11191
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 1999 11:29 am

RE: Big Changes In Aviation Due To Aircraft Accidents?

Sat Dec 02, 2006 11:26 am

Quoting ZBBYLW (Reply 12):
WOW, i am surprised no one has mentioned 11/Sept/01

Maybe it's just me, but I didn't consider those since they were intentional acts, and not accidents per se in the context that the OP seemed to be looking for...
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
zanl188
Posts: 3447
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2006 9:05 pm

RE: Big Changes In Aviation Due To Aircraft Accidents?

Sat Dec 02, 2006 11:28 am

Quoting ZBBYLW (Reply 12):
WOW, i am surprised no one has mentioned 11/Sept/01

No one has mentioned it because it wasn't an accident....
Legal considerations provided by: Dewey, Cheatum, and Howe
 
EWRCabincrew
Posts: 4306
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 2:37 am

RE: Big Changes In Aviation Due To Aircraft Accidents?

Sat Dec 02, 2006 11:28 am

How about the airstair device that prohibits lowering of the aft airstairs on 727-200s. Wasn't that brought about by the D.B. Cooper/NWA flight?
You can't cure stupid
 
Vref5
Posts: 187
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2005 2:55 pm

RE: Big Changes In Aviation Due To Aircraft Accidents?

Sat Dec 02, 2006 11:33 am

A redesign of the door locking mechanism and improved pressurization controls + systems to prevent uncontained/explosive decompression resulting in loss of control. A significant one that comes to mind was Turkish Airlines 981 that crashed in a snow-covered forest in France in '74.

There were a rash of that type of accident in the mid '70s and a few more after then, but has since mostly dropped off.
 
cjbmibe
Posts: 79
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2006 9:13 am

RE: Big Changes In Aviation Due To Aircraft Accidents?

Sat Dec 02, 2006 11:47 am

BD092 LHR-BHD crashed in 1989 a few yards from EMA.

As a result of this crash:
greater communication between the cockpit and cabin crew developed;
longer training for variations of aircraft -this was a 734 and only new with the airline, and contained some new features over previous versions, crew only received 75 hours of flights onboard in total;
a common brace position was adapted by British airlines;
research into backward facing seats was also carried out and discovered that its safer.
How can I soar like an Eagle when I have to work with these turkeys?
 
User avatar
zippyjet
Posts: 5089
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2001 3:32 pm

RE: Big Changes In Aviation Due To Aircraft Accidents?

Sat Dec 02, 2006 11:54 am

Way back in the Jurassic era before many of my fellow A-Netters were even a glimmer in their parent's eye, there was Lockheed's L-188 Electra. Sadly this plane that was at first popular suffered several fatal crashes. New speed restrictions were put into place until Lockheed made a design fix. Excessive vibration in the engine nacelles caused the plane to break apart. Once that fix was made, the speed restrictions were lifted and the L-188 proved to be a solid reliable turboprop. However, by then the pure jet age was in full swing and you know the rest!


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Barry A. Stark
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Mel Lawrence



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Mel Lawrence
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Mel Lawrence

I'm Zippyjet & I approve of this message!
 
EWRCabincrew
Posts: 4306
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 2:37 am

RE: Big Changes In Aviation Due To Aircraft Accidents?

Sat Dec 02, 2006 12:00 pm

Also, the British Airtours 737 incident in MAN, August 22, 1985, didn't that bring about changes in seating around the window exits (as in allowing for more room so people can get out) and standardising evacuation procedures, as well?
You can't cure stupid
 
MCOflyer
Posts: 7071
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2006 5:51 am

RE: Big Changes In Aviation Due To Aircraft Accidents?

Sat Dec 02, 2006 12:05 pm

What about the 737 rudder problems, UA 292, and the UA 741 crash over the pacific from HNL enroute to AKL?

If i'm right, all forward cargo doors had to have diffrent mechanisms to the forward corgo door on 747's.

I believe UA292 brought procedures on how to deal with situations that include hydraulics.

MCOflyer
Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
 
ZBBYLW
Posts: 1612
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 8:17 am

RE: Big Changes In Aviation Due To Aircraft Accidents?

Sat Dec 02, 2006 12:25 pm

Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 13):
At least in the US, that wasn't a change. But you are right, that that wasn't brought up earlier.

Ahh, i did not know this, as i always have traveled AC when possible, i was always given a chance to get up front.

Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 15):
No one has mentioned it because it wasn't an accident....

While it was not an accident in the context that there was a maintenance malfunction, pilot error etc... it involved an airplane, well four, that crashed into a building, which a substantial amount of lifes where lost, following this day, new security messures where brought into place, because of this i think it is a valid situation to put in here.
Keep the shinny side up!
 
MCOflyer
Posts: 7071
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2006 5:51 am

RE: Big Changes In Aviation Due To Aircraft Accidents?

Sat Dec 02, 2006 1:56 pm

I think the Gimeli Glider accident mandated certain use of metric system.

MCOflyer
Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
 
ReidYYZ
Posts: 503
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2005 4:00 am

RE: Big Changes In Aviation Due To Aircraft Accidents?

Sat Dec 02, 2006 2:12 pm

If memory serves:

EA401 into the everglades brought about changes to autopilot disconnect protocols: More pressure on control column required and a louder and more distinct audible tone/chime and maybe something to do with radio altimeter (don't know enough about rad-alt history, I could be wrong)

NG004 (Lauda Air) with inflight T/Rev deployment brought about requirments to include a tertiary locking system in most, if not all T/Rev systems.

Aloha Airlines 243: aging aircraft procedures implemented after this or before-not sure.

United 232 (Sioux City) caused the implementation of hydraulic fuses in critical areas. Trivia:Lockheed foresaw this very problem in designing the Tristar. In case of #1 engine turbine disc failure, there was a fuse installed in the fuselage left of where the lower galley is for, I think, 'A' system for nose gear retraction or slat ops.
 
EWRCabincrew
Posts: 4306
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 2:37 am

RE: Big Changes In Aviation Due To Aircraft Accidents?

Sat Dec 02, 2006 2:17 pm

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 23):
Gimeli Glider

Gimli glider, but yes...at least use one or the other.
You can't cure stupid
 
bohica
Posts: 2308
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2004 3:21 pm

RE: Big Changes In Aviation Due To Aircraft Accidents?

Sat Dec 02, 2006 2:43 pm

IIRC in the AA DC-10 accident in ORD, the F/O was flying the A/C. Stick shakers/pushers were optional on the F/O's side on the DC-10. AA did not select the stick shaker/pusher option. As a result of the accident, stick shakers/pushers were made mandatory on both sides.
There were other changes made due to this accident including maintenance procedures.


As a result of the PSA 146 accident in California, more accountability was created to keep track of employee I.D. badges. Also, an employee was no longer able to flash his/her I.D. to bypass security.


Several accidents of the Comet 1 were due to metal fatigue. The metal was failing at the corners of the square windows. Circular windows were installed in later models of Comets.
 
Pilot3033
Posts: 107
Joined: Wed May 24, 2006 4:39 pm

RE: Big Changes In Aviation Due To Aircraft Accidents?

Sat Dec 02, 2006 3:12 pm

Quoting Bohica (Reply 26):
As a result of the PSA 146 accident in California, more accountability was created to keep track of employee I.D. badges. Also, an employee was no longer able to flash his/her I.D. to bypass security.

IIRC, it was flight 1771

Flight 182 (also IIRC) was responsible for further developments and implementation of TCAS.
-Matt
 
TrijetsRMissed
Posts: 1981
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 12:15 pm

RE: Big Changes In Aviation Due To Aircraft Accidents?

Sat Dec 02, 2006 3:46 pm

Quoting JAM747 (Thread starter):
What are some of the the big changes to aviation that has happened due aircraft accidents?

Just to add to whats already been said..

AA587 A300 in Queens, changed training procedures on how pilots should use the rudder.

AA191 DC10 in Chicago, resulted in the stick shaker being mandatory on both sides and no longer would pilots reduce speed to V2 following engine failures on take off during climb.

UA585 and USAir427, lead to changes in rudder design on 737s.

Lauda Air 004, lead to changes in the thrust reverser locks.

NW255 and DL1141, lead to a warning system in the cockpit to ensure proper flap/slat configuration during take off.

AE4184, lead to changes in the ATR design, specifically the de-icing systems.

Air Florida 90, lead to the use of CRM.

The series of Comet accidents in the 1950's lead to a variety of changes which addressed metal fatigue, pressurization, and the shape and size of windows.

There are more, but can I say, its late..
There's nothing quite like a trijet.
 
MCOflyer
Posts: 7071
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2006 5:51 am

RE: Big Changes In Aviation Due To Aircraft Accidents?

Sat Dec 02, 2006 3:49 pm

Didn't that AA accident in Columbia bring some required practices?

Also if I remember correctly that EA 721 crash at JFK made INS mandatory standard on all a/c.

MCOflyer
Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
 
TrijetsRMissed
Posts: 1981
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 12:15 pm

RE: Big Changes In Aviation Due To Aircraft Accidents?

Sat Dec 02, 2006 3:57 pm

Quoting Vref5 (Reply 11):
The crashes of the '70s and '80s exposed the dangers of having single points of failure in aircraft systems. E.g. American Airlines 191 crash at O'Hare in 1979, United Airlines 232 Sioux City crash in 1989.

While each accident started with a single failure, they both lead to a series of failures. Also AA191 changed maintenance procedures. Engines and pylons have to be removed separately during MX.

Quoting ReidYYZ (Reply 24):
United 232 (Sioux City) caused the implementation of hydraulic fuses in critical areas.

Are you sure about this? There were nearly 200 DC-10s in service in the US at the time of this accident, I would imagine it would take years to accomplish that task. My understanding was there were no design changes because the likelihood of a similar accident occuring was slim to none.
There's nothing quite like a trijet.
 
OPNLguy
Posts: 11191
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 1999 11:29 am

RE: Big Changes In Aviation Due To Aircraft Accidents?

Sat Dec 02, 2006 5:20 pm

Quoting TrijetsRMissed (Reply 28):
NW255 and DL1141, lead to a warning system in the cockpit to ensure proper flap/slat configuration during take off.

Takeoff configuration warning systems were on aircraft long before these two...

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 29):
Also if I remember correctly that EA 721 crash at JFK made INS mandatory standard on all a/c.

If that's Eastern 66 at JFK (a microburst encounter), INS wasn't made mandatory as a result.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
TrijetsRMissed
Posts: 1981
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 12:15 pm

RE: Big Changes In Aviation Due To Aircraft Accidents?

Sat Dec 02, 2006 5:52 pm

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 31):
Quoting TrijetsRMissed (Reply 28):
NW255 and DL1141, lead to a warning system in the cockpit to ensure proper flap/slat configuration during take off.

Takeoff configuration warning systems were on aircraft long before these two...

You're right, but the CAWS was modified afterwards. Most notably the system's fail light to ensure the CAWS is functioning properly with adequate electrical power.
There's nothing quite like a trijet.
 
Markhkg
Posts: 838
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 4:13 pm

RE: Big Changes In Aviation Due To Aircraft Accidents?

Sat Dec 02, 2006 5:59 pm

Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 20):
didn't that bring about changes in seating around the window exits (as in allowing for more room so people can get out) and standardising evacuation procedures, as well?

It even helped push for a new overwing exit design for the B737-NG series aircraft, the "self disposing" hatches.

Quoting JAM747 (Thread starter):
What are some of the the big changes to aviation that has happened due aircraft accidents?

In progress is the whole fuel vapor safety issue...TWA 800 was a major wake-up call.

http://www.ntsb.gov/Recs/mostwanted/explosive_tanks.htm
Release your seat-belts and get out! Leave everything!
 
TrijetsRMissed
Posts: 1981
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 12:15 pm

RE: Big Changes In Aviation Due To Aircraft Accidents?

Sat Dec 02, 2006 6:09 pm

Quoting MarkHKG (Reply 33):
In progress is the whole fuel vapor safety issue...TWA 800 was a major wake-up call.

http://www.ntsb.gov/Recs/mostwanted/...s.htm

These changes are only being integrated into new aircraft being built, so theoretically an older 747 could still be prone to this type of disaster, correct?
There's nothing quite like a trijet.
 
Markhkg
Posts: 838
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 4:13 pm

RE: Big Changes In Aviation Due To Aircraft Accidents?

Sat Dec 02, 2006 6:23 pm

Quoting TrijetsRMissed (Reply 34):
so theoretically an older 747 could still be prone to this type of disaster, correct?

Correct. And it's not just the 747. After TWA800, a parked Thai Airways Intl 737-400 exploded in 2001, killing 1 person. It was blamed, again, on the center fuel tank. A Transmile Air Service 727 in 2006, while on the ground being moved for maintence, suffered what was believed to be a small explosion in the center fuel tank, and although some believe to be a result of an ignition of fuel vapors, it is still under investigation.
Release your seat-belts and get out! Leave everything!
 
jimbobjoe
Posts: 450
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2001 2:04 pm

RE: Big Changes In Aviation Due To Aircraft Accide

Sat Dec 02, 2006 7:32 pm

Quoting Vref5 (Reply 17):
A redesign of the door locking mechanism and improved pressurization controls + systems to prevent uncontained/explosive decompression resulting in loss of control. A significant one that comes to mind was Turkish Airlines 981 that crashed in a snow-covered forest in France in '74.

The door locking mechanism problem was known at the time of the accident. In fact, the aircraft had been ordered after Mcdonnell-Douglas had issued a service bulletin telling airlines to change the door locking mechanism. Airlines were slow to make the change, and MCD was putting it off for a variety of reasons. As a result, service bulletins are now taken much more seriously and fixes implemented quickly.

Further, Convair engineers (who designed the door locking mechanism) knew of the problems with it. The engineering ethical problems of this situation influenced parts of Michael Crichten's Airframe and are considered textbook today.

As I recall, this accident also required streghthening of passenger cabin floors in all wide body aircraft. Major structural changes were made to the DC-10, L1011 and 747 as a result.

Finally, this crash has a major influence on passenger fatality compensation (I don't remember why, but I seem to recall that it was the first accident in which courts became involved in post-accident settlements.)

Arguably, this accident also ruined the reputation of the DC-10--for some, permanently. Whereas AA 191 was a maintainance error--MCD instructed airlines to remove the engine and pylon separately (and AA and CO ignored the instructions) I don't believe that AA 191 all by itself would have had such a damaging effect on the DC-10's reputation--I think it was in combination with THY 981 that the reputation fell apart.

The book The Last Nine Minutes covers this accident and is recommended. I think you'd be hard pressed to find another that caused so many changes (particularly because so many were big, such as fatality compensation and engineering ethics reform.)
 
TrijetsRMissed
Posts: 1981
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 12:15 pm

RE: Big Changes In Aviation Due To Aircraft Accidents?

Sat Dec 02, 2006 8:33 pm

Quoting Jimbobjoe (Reply 36):
The door locking mechanism problem was known at the time of the accident.

There was an AA DC-10 that had the same door blow open in flight. This happened two years before the Turkish accident. It landed safely, which probably slowed the process to get the door fixed.

Quoting Jimbobjoe (Reply 36):
Finally, this crash has a major influence on passenger fatality compensation (I don't remember why, but I seem to recall that it was the first accident in which courts became involved in post-accident settlements.)

I think it was the result of the fact that this accident was the first to have several hundred people perish.

Quoting Jimbobjoe (Reply 36):
Whereas AA 191 was a maintainance error--MCD instructed airlines to remove the engine and pylon separately (and AA and CO ignored the instructions)

UA did too, although they used a crane to remove the engine with pylon, not a forklift like UA and CO. Furthermore, a few DC-10s from each airline were found to have similar cracks on the flange inside the pylon, which lead to the grounding.

Quoting Jimbobjoe (Reply 36):
I don't believe that AA 191 all by itself would have had such a damaging effect on the DC-10's reputation--I think it was in combination with THY 981 that the reputation fell apart.

AA 191 was pretty much the nail in the coffin for the DC-10's reputation. The fact that it was the 4th fatal accident in 7 years of service looked very bad at the time. Also it was and is the worst accident in US history, people always remember the visual image of its final moments with the infamous photo and there was also a Western DC-10 crash that year as well. Although the latter was pilot error the general public does not pay attention to the cause as much as the event.
There's nothing quite like a trijet.
 
jasond
Posts: 648
Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2009 5:23 am

RE: Big Changes In Aviation Due To Aircraft Accidents?

Sat Dec 02, 2006 8:38 pm

Quoting Vref5 (Reply 8):
Crew Resource Management (CRM) developed out of a NASA safety seminar in 1979 as a means to provide more effective crew interaction and using all possible resources to avoid accidents.

That was the big one for me. It radically changed the culture in the cockpit to a more collaberative environment for info sharing and decision making. Take Tenerife in 1977. The junior crew of the KLM 747 suspected something was not right but the guy in the left hand seat was never to be questioned. As a reverse example take Sioux City in 1989 (United 232) where CRM proved its worth in spades!!!
 
TrijetsRMissed
Posts: 1981
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 12:15 pm

RE: Big Changes In Aviation Due To Aircraft Accidents?

Sat Dec 02, 2006 8:52 pm

Quoting Jasond (Reply 38):
Take Tenerife in 1977. The junior crew of the KLM 747 suspected something was not right but the guy in the left hand seat was never to be questioned. As a reverse example take Sioux City in 1989 (United 232) where CRM proved its worth in spades!!!

Not too mention you have history's worst Captain in Van Zandt vs what I consider the best, the hero Capt AL Haynes.
There's nothing quite like a trijet.
 
User avatar
breiz
Posts: 1420
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 9:12 pm

RE: Big Changes In Aviation Due To Aircraft Accidents?

Sat Dec 02, 2006 8:58 pm

Quoting JAM747 (Thread starter):
What are some of the the big changes to aviation that has happened due aircraft accidents?

I assume that one of the most significant change followed the Comet crashes which led to better knowledge of metal fatigue due to varying pressure and to the design of the fail-safe fuselage structure.
 
Vref5
Posts: 187
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2005 2:55 pm

RE: Big Changes In Aviation Due To Aircraft Accide

Sat Dec 02, 2006 9:02 pm

Very good points taken regarding AA 191.

Speaking of aircraft design... the recent Helios B737 crash in Greece might suggest design changes to visual and aural indicators -- particularly the cabin pressure altitude aural cues.

From what I recall, it may have had been confused by the crew and further hampered when the oxygen level subtly went down to point of mental impairment.

With aural cues having two different meanings depending on the flight phase as a contributing cause (human factors design issue). I'm not sure if they've changed that type of annunciator design in more recent aircrafts.
 
Vref5
Posts: 187
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2005 2:55 pm

RE: Big Changes In Aviation Due To Aircraft Accide

Sat Dec 02, 2006 9:04 pm

I can't quite point to any one particular accident in the past without looking it up but standardization of ATC phrasing and terminology as well as radio discipline came about partly to avoid confusion that did lead to past accidents.
 
Vref5
Posts: 187
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2005 2:55 pm

RE: Big Changes In Aviation Due To Aircraft Accidents?

Sat Dec 02, 2006 9:07 pm

The SAS 686 and Cessna Citation accident at Milano Linate airport several years ago led to renewed calls for better ground movement monitoring tools, particularly in low-vis operations. To that end, there has been expanded testing and use of ADS-B. For more information on ADS-B (including the FAA 'Capstone' project):

ADS-B" target=_blank>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADS-B

ADS-B can be used by ground service personnel in vehicles, by tower personnel, by aircraft flight crew, for enhancing situational awareness of where everybody is. It's not a new technology but use of GPS certainly does help open up additional possibilities.

Not only that... it appears to help with more coverage (in a more economical way to operate) in the more remote areas where it was too expensive or difficult to maintain the usual navaids for less well-heeled users. With greater awareness of movement and in-flight coverage, that leads to greater safety.
 
LHStarAlliance
Posts: 2096
Joined: Sat Nov 18, 2006 9:15 pm

RE: Big Changes In Aviation Due To Aircraft Accidents?

Sat Dec 02, 2006 9:09 pm

What about , SR111 in Peggys Cove . ?
Boycott The Olympic Games In Beijing !
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 6118
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

RE: Big Changes In Aviation Due To Aircraft Accidents?

Sun Dec 03, 2006 12:55 am

NW 1482 in DTW 12/3/1990 - the DC-9-10 that wandered onto the active runway in dense fog and was sliced up and caught fire due to the wing of a NW 727 impacting the aircraft led to several changes in the airfield layout at DTW, improved signage and runway warning lights. Additional changes are still on going as airports are still installing ground radar systems at working to reduce runway incursion issues.


Does anyone have any info on the rash of USAir incidents in the early/mid 1990's?
 
GBan
Posts: 488
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 5:10 pm

RE: Big Changes In Aviation Due To Aircraft Accidents?

Sun Dec 03, 2006 1:37 am

Quoting JAM747 (Thread starter):
What are some of the the big changes to aviation that has happened due aircraft accidents?

I'd add the "Hindenburg" to such a list - at that time the accident in Lakehurst did change aviation.
 
ltbewr
Posts: 12424
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

RE: Big Changes In Aviation Due To Aircraft Accidents?

Sun Dec 03, 2006 1:40 am

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 44):
What about , SR111 in Peggys Cove . ?

Good point. The most important change from SR111 was the revisions of wiring coatings and insualtion. If I am correct, the insuation on this MD-11, also used on many other aircraft, was prone to vibration and abarsion damage. Immediate inspections of certain wiring in that and other model aircraft had to have tempory fixes done. Now many aircraft will have their wiring replaced with newer and safer insulation at major MX checks. It also let to more detailed inspections of the wiring at checks, especially of the entertainment systems wiring and changes in wiring routing.
 
trekster
Posts: 4319
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2003 2:47 am

RE: Big Changes In Aviation Due To Aircraft Accidents?

Sun Dec 03, 2006 2:23 am

Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 20):

The one i was going to talk about

One of the biggest changes came about due to this incident.
Where does the time go???
 
Markhkg
Posts: 838
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 4:13 pm

RE: Big Changes In Aviation Due To Aircraft Accide

Sun Dec 03, 2006 4:42 am

Quoting Jimbobjoe (Reply 36):
As I recall, this accident also required streghthening of passenger cabin floors in all wide body aircraft. Major structural changes were made to the DC-10, L1011 and 747 as a result.

Also caused the introduction of "vent holes" between compartments, to prevent a huge pressure differential from causing structural failure or collapse.

Quoting Vref5 (Reply 41):
I'm not sure if they've changed that type of annunciator design in more recent aircrafts.

Well, for newer aircraft like the B-767 or the A320, the cabin altitude warning results in a MASTER WARNING alert, along with ECAM checklist actions which automatically pop up on the computer. So diagnosing the problem can be pretty fast. The problem with the older 737 aircraft is that you needed to figure out what the takeoff config/cabin altitude noise was first before deciding what checklist to use. The checklists have now been changed, though.
Release your seat-belts and get out! Leave everything!