boeing 747-311
Posts: 777
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2001 10:29 am

Why No More Intl First On US

Sat Dec 02, 2006 9:58 am

Why did US get rid of the INTL first on the A330s? when did they get rid of it? Did anyone have the chance to fly on it? How was it! any other info would be great!

Thanks,

boeing 747-311
Come fly with US
 
jrlander
Posts: 1025
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 1999 3:47 am

RE: Why No More Intl First On US

Sat Dec 02, 2006 10:23 am

I don't know this- but I would guess there wasn't a lot of demand for it from PHL to Europe. There are few routes across the Atlantic that can sustain First Class traffic- NYC, ORD, LAX to LHR, FRA and CDG are the major ones. Some others- such as IAH to LON, and CDG and FRA will also work. But not many- this is why CO, DL, NW and a few others have done away with First in favor of an upgraded business class. Even some European carriers have done away with First on either all (KLM, Alitalia) or some (Air France) routes.
 
jetdude
Posts: 55
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2006 1:32 am

RE: Why No More Intl First On US

Sat Dec 02, 2006 12:19 pm

Only the A330 has first class, and only one row. The a/c will be reconfigured next year.

Intl. flying will still have Envoy and economy.
 
walter747
Posts: 1379
Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2006 9:49 am

RE: Why No More Intl First On US

Sat Dec 02, 2006 12:26 pm

the seats are hard to get too. its usually resereved for chairmans preferred and full fare.
Hussel, Hussel, Husel, Grind, Grind, Grind
 
kanebear
Posts: 852
Joined: Tue May 28, 2002 12:06 am

RE: Why No More Intl First On US

Sat Dec 02, 2006 12:51 pm

Now even Chairman's Preferred can reserve them. I believe it's full fare only. Even at it's best, F class was only ever a different menu and an extra entree choice (and some different wine). The seats were nothing special (lay flat but not suites) and the F cabin got awfully stuffy due to a lack of ventilation. I never flew US in F but have flown LA numerous times on the 340 in F which is a similar configuration. It's quite claustrophobic although some call it intimate.

Obviously, Envoy satisfies US' needs. They don't have a large enough int'l network IMO to justify 3 class service. PHL can clearly support an F class, else BA would toss another 'dusked' 767 on the route and use the 777 elsewhere!
 
boeing 747-311
Posts: 777
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2001 10:29 am

RE: Why No More Intl First On US

Sun Dec 03, 2006 3:03 am

I assumed it was because they weren't filling all of the seats, but was not sure. I was told that US was not getting rid of the 1st row of envoy (the lay flat seats) because it would be difficult to add more seats. I believe they are now charging an extra three hundred to sit in these seats at the gate!
Come fly with US
 
dutchjet
Posts: 7714
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

RE: Why No More Intl First On US

Sun Dec 03, 2006 3:45 am

US determined that it was in its best interest to ""streamline"" its product offering and focus on an improved Envoy Class.....the F product was probably more trouble than it worth being that it was only offered on the A330s with 6 seats on each aircraft.

US, like many other airlines worldwide, did not want to continue investing in an F product for which there is limited demand. In the US, CO and NW no longer F class on international flights, AA only offers F class in select markets served by the 777, etc. F class only tends to work on flights connecting key business centers......my guess is that US did OK with F class on flights to London and possibly Frankfurt, and the seats did not sell on other A330 destinations such as Paris, Rome and Manchester.

Is US planning to reconfigure the cabins on the A333s?
 
EWRCabincrew
Posts: 4309
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 2:37 am

RE: Why No More Intl First On US

Sun Dec 03, 2006 3:58 am

CO gave up first class to bring around an industry changing product in the early 90s. Business/First was designed to be a business class seat with a first class service. Service from tiered carts, not trolleys.

We had first class a long time ago (our 747s/DC10s) for international flights, but that went away with Business/First.

We just need to keep up with the Jones' and not rest on our laurels.
You can't cure stupid
 
gilesdavies
Posts: 2281
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 7:51 pm

RE: Why No More Intl First On US

Sun Dec 03, 2006 4:23 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 6):
......my guess is that US did OK with F class on flights to London and possibly Frankfurt, and the seats did not sell on other A330 destinations such as Paris, Rome and Manchester.

US Airways operate out of LGW for their London service and LGW is renowned for poor loads in F and J Classes. I would doubt there would be a great deal of demand of F.

Can anyone provide any further information on US Airways A330-300 new config they will doing? Will this mean a complete refurbishment of the cabin?

US Airways has always offered excellent legroom in Y on the A330-300's and operate the aircrafts with far fewer seats than they are capable of and to how other airlines fill theres. Im wondering if they will be increasing the Capacity?

Comparison of A330-300
US Airways - J 42 Seats, Y 224 Seats
Northwest - J 34 Seats, Y 264 Seats
Asiana - J 30 seats, Y 352 Seats
Cathey Pacific - J 44 Seats, Y 267 Seats
Qantas - J 30 Seats, Y 267 Seats
Korean - F 12 Seats, J 28 Seats, Y 256 Seats
Thai - J 42 Seats, Y 263 Seats.
SAS - J 54 Seats, PremY 24 Seats, Y 183 Seats
 
Squid
Posts: 192
Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2005 4:21 am

RE: Why No More Intl First On US

Sun Dec 03, 2006 4:29 am

So will they put in new seats or just adjust the recline and pitch?
 
TusAadvantage
Posts: 136
Joined: Sat Oct 07, 2006 1:43 pm

RE: Why No More Intl First On US

Sun Dec 03, 2006 1:23 pm

Quoting Gilesdavies (Reply 8):
Asiana - J 30 seats, Y 352 Seats

Dear God! 382 seats on an A330! British puts less than that on their 744s. I know Korean people are smaller, but not that small.
 
gilesdavies
Posts: 2281
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 7:51 pm

RE: Why No More Intl First On US

Sun Dec 03, 2006 10:59 pm

Quoting TUSaadvantage (Reply 10):
Quoting Gilesdavies (Reply 8):
Asiana - J 30 seats, Y 352 Seats

Dear God! 382 seats on an A330! British puts less than that on their 744s. I know Korean people are smaller, but not that small.

Source of the information was SeatGuru.com, so not a typo error on my part!
 
dutchjet
Posts: 7714
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

RE: Why No More Intl First On US

Sun Dec 03, 2006 11:14 pm

Quoting Gilesdavies (Reply 8):
US Airways operate out of LGW for their London service and LGW is renowned for poor loads in F and J Classes. I would doubt there would be a great deal of demand of F.

I am not sure that I agree.....while LGW does not attract the business crowd in general, the United States carriers that are limited to Gatwick due to Bermuda 2 tend to do OK with their premium cabins....CO keeps its BusFirst seats on Gatwick flights filled up (far better than on CDG flights, for example) and DL does well with its premium cabin, so I assume that US would have about the same results....but I do agree that F class was probably not selling very well on most routes including Gatwick.

Quoting Gilesdavies (Reply 8):
Can anyone provide any further information on US Airways A330-300 new config they will doing?

I had the same question, it seems that US will not be doing much of anything....the former F class seats will remain for now and be sold as Envoy and are assigned to preferred customers on the basis of FF status and/or fare paid.

Quoting Jetdude (Reply 2):
The a/c will be reconfigured next year.

This is news to me, any details?
 
jetdude
Posts: 55
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2006 1:32 am

RE: Why No More Intl First On US

Mon Dec 04, 2006 8:26 am

First class is being removed, a reduction in Envoy seats and additional economy seats will be added.

No new style seats, just moving them around.

Sorry, I don't remember the exact number of seats per class.

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