leelaw
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Walsh: BA To Talk To Airbus About A350 XWB

Mon Dec 04, 2006 9:29 pm

LONDON (Dow Jones)--British Airways PLC will hold talks with Airbus about the latter's revamped A350 XWB airplane and isn't concerned that it won't be available until 2013, BA Chief Executive Willie Walsh said at a news conference Monday.

"I'm very pleased to see Airbus move forward," Walsh said, adding that BA will continue talks with Airbus about the new A350 and double-decker A380 as part of the U.K. carrier's plans to renew its long-haul fleet. The firm is also looking at Boeing Co.'s 787 and 777 wide-bodied models...

...Walsh said the 2013 in-service date fits BA's needs well as the company is looking to upgrade its long-haul fleet in the middle of the next decade...


http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20061204-704525.html
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mptpa
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RE: Walsh: BA To Talk To Airbus About A350 XWB

Mon Dec 04, 2006 10:04 pm

Somehow, I am NOT surprised at this announcement. Why? Because Walsh has had goos relationships with Airbus whilst at EI, and secondly, it is a good negotiating practice to let the other know that they have another "good" choice and timing is not going to be factor so they can negotiate great deal and spur competition. The real assessment may be totally off.

Again Boeing must earn this business and nothing is a given. Any thoughts from any insiders???
 
DAYflyer
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RE: Walsh: BA To Talk To Airbus About A350 XWB

Mon Dec 04, 2006 11:25 pm

BA will go with the A-350 here. Why? If 2013 is a good delivery date for them, they could have already ordered 777/787 for delivery in that time frame.
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NYC777
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RE: Walsh: BA To Talk To Airbus About A350 XWB

Mon Dec 04, 2006 11:28 pm

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 2):
BA will go with the A-350 here. Why? If 2013 is a good delivery date for them, they could have already ordered 777/787 for delivery in that time frame.

Yeah but the 787 is going to less expensive for them compared to the A350 and Boeing will probably be starting to take orders for the Y3 for delivery around 2015 or so. That would be an airplane that would obsolete the A350-1000/77W/748I/A380.
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
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Stitch
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RE: Walsh: BA To Talk To Airbus About A350 XWB

Mon Dec 04, 2006 11:28 pm

BA will be taking ten (?) 773ERs soon via options exercise so that lets them stretch out the 763 and 772 replacement. We may see a dual-fleet decision with the 787-8 replacing the 763s and the A359 replacing the 772s.
 
keesje
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RE: Walsh: BA To Talk To Airbus About A350 XWB

Mon Dec 04, 2006 11:48 pm

No doubt Airbus has thrown it's most powerfull selling point vs the 787;

A330's from 2008.
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
Adria
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RE: Walsh: BA To Talk To Airbus About A350 XWB

Mon Dec 04, 2006 11:49 pm

Finally they start to publicly admit their interest in the A380 but it would be a surprise to see Airbus wide-bodies in the BA colours.
 
Danny
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RE: Walsh: BA To Talk To Airbus About A350 XWB

Mon Dec 04, 2006 11:53 pm

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 3):
Yeah but the 787 is going to less expensive for them compared to the A350

How do you know? I am sure Airbus would give BA great deal to make them switch widebodies fleet.

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 3):
A350 and Boeing will probably be starting to take orders for the Y3 for delivery around 2015 or so.

This is total science - fiction.
 
WINGS
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RE: Walsh: BA To Talk To Airbus About A350 XWB

Tue Dec 05, 2006 12:00 am

Quoting Leelaw (Thread starter):

"I'm very pleased to see Airbus move forward," Walsh said, adding that BA will continue talks with Airbus about the new A350 and double-decker A380 as part of the U.K. carrier's plans to renew its long-haul fleet.

Now that ILFC and Virgin have deferred their orders and FedEx cancelled, BA has the excellent opportunity to acquire the A380 at an earlier date. It will be very interesting to see if Airbus will use the latest setbacks with VS,ILFC, and FedEx to it's advantage in securing what will be one of the largest operators of the A380 in the future.

Regards,
Wings
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Rj111
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RE: Walsh: BA To Talk To Airbus About A350 XWB

Tue Dec 05, 2006 12:06 am

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 3):
Yeah but the 787 is going to less expensive for them compared to the A350 and Boeing will probably be starting to take orders for the Y3 for delivery around 2015 or so. That would be an airplane that would obsolete the A350-1000/77W/748I/A380.

Y3 isn't even a paper plane yet but it's already got the better of 2 other paper planes, an aircraft pre-EIS and one very new and efficient aircraft? Impressive! I think BA are interested in realities though.
 
LGWspeedbird
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RE: Walsh: BA To Talk To Airbus About A350 XWB

Tue Dec 05, 2006 12:27 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 4):
We may see a dual-fleet decision with the 787-8 replacing the 763s and the A359 replacing the 772s

Wouldnt this be more expensive having two makes of aircraft and having to stock all those different parts etc.

Would it not just be easier for us to order 787's to replace the 767's and newer 777's and 747 8's to replace the rest of the fleet. thus keeping all boeing would help with maintanence costs wouldnt it??
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Stitch
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RE: Walsh: BA To Talk To Airbus About A350 XWB

Tue Dec 05, 2006 1:05 am

Quoting Keesje (Reply 5):
No doubt Airbus has thrown it's most powerful selling point vs the 787: A330's from 2008.

If BA wants the A358 as their 763ER replacement, then this would be excellent. If, however, BA doesn't want to go that large a step-up, then the 787-8 should have the edge even if BA has to wait, which it looks like they are willing to do if necessary.

Quoting LGWspeedbird (Reply 10):
Would it not just be easier for us to order 787's to replace the 767's and newer 777's and 748's to replace the rest of the fleet. thus keeping all boeing would help with maintenance costs wouldn't it?

Well a fully 787 or A350XWB fleet would offer maintenance savings, but a 767, a 777, and a 747 share precious little parts now, so replacing the 767 with the 787 and the 744 with the 748I wouldn't offer BA much more then what they already have. BA could save on engine maintenance as the 748 and 773ER are GE-only and they could then order GE for their 787s. However, a mixed 787 and A350XWB fleet would allow them to stay with RR power, since the cores for the engines should be very similar even if the bleed/bleedless systems are not.
 
B2707SST
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RE: Walsh: BA To Talk To Airbus About A350 XWB

Tue Dec 05, 2006 1:27 am

Quoting Leelaw (Thread starter):
...Walsh said the 2013 in-service date fits BA's needs well as the company is looking to upgrade its long-haul fleet in the middle of the next decade...



Quoting Keesje (Reply 5):
No doubt Airbus has thrown it's most powerfull selling point vs the 787;

A330's from 2008.

BA want to begin this fleet replacement cycle sometime in the next decade, so why would they need A330s in two years? If they had a need for aircraft of that size in the 2008-2010 period, they could easily have ordered the A330 or 787 long ago.

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Revelation
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RE: Walsh: BA To Talk To Airbus About A350 XWB

Tue Dec 05, 2006 1:55 am

Quoting Keesje (Reply 5):
No doubt Airbus has thrown it's most powerfull selling point vs the 787;

A330's from 2008.

At today's Airbus press conference, it was mentioned that A330 is sold out till 2010.
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jacobin777
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RE: Walsh: BA To Talk To Airbus About A350 XWB

Tue Dec 05, 2006 3:05 am

"British Airways Adds an Eighth At Eight
Monday December 4, 12:46 pm ET
Additional Morning Flight Increases New York's JFK to London Heathrow Service to Eight Daily Flights "*

This takes the advantage away of flying the A380 on this route...seems as if BA is only interested in offering more frequencies on what is certainly one of their core-flagship routes..

"British Airways' JFK services operate from Terminal 7 and the airline is the only foreign carrier to solely own and operate its own terminal at JFK.**

*/**sources:

http://biz.yahoo.com/pz/061204/109802.html

Also, given that BA have 61 Boeing 767/777's (with an option for 10 more 777's)...and with the 787's being type rated with the two aforementioned planes, it would possibly get expensive to have many of those pilots switch/add type ratings, etc..yes...BA have a lot of A32X's..but then again, what would come of those 767/777 pilots?

The same holds true for the 744 and the 748...

I'm glad though BA is looking into the A350/A380..in the end, it will give them a good deal on whichever planes they choose....

Cheers...
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aa1818
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RE: Walsh: BA To Talk To Airbus About A350 XWB

Tue Dec 05, 2006 3:51 am

BA will probably consider the A350, but I don't see it winning here. It will be a fantastic plane, but it is not a suitable replacement for BA's 767s. Airbus tried to swallow two markets 767-777 with one airplane and has instead gotten an a/c that is going to be dominant in the 777sized market and not non-existent in the 767 sized market. While nothing is cast in stone and I don't know if BA will be looking for a true 767 replacement, as of now, I see the 787 taking this one, but who knows what a year or two could change!!

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keesje
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RE: Walsh: BA To Talk To Airbus About A350 XWB

Tue Dec 05, 2006 5:57 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 14):
it would possibly get expensive to have many of those pilots switch/add type ratings

I think 25% operating costs is a lot (772 vs 359) and pilot conversion costs are not that high.

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 14):
Also, given that BA have 61 Boeing 767/777's (with an option for 10 more 777's)...and with the 787's being type rated with the two aforementioned planes

Will the 787 be type rated with the 767 and 777?
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
NYC777
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RE: Walsh: BA To Talk To Airbus About A350 XWB

Tue Dec 05, 2006 6:05 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 14):
Additional Morning Flight Increases New York's JFK to London Heathrow Service to Eight Daily Flights "*

Can you imagine if BA put 77W on the JFK-LHR route in place of some of the 777-200ER/767s already on that route. They would be making money like there's no tomorrow. I wouldn't replace the 747s with anything smaller though. Those flights always seemed to be filled.
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scotron11
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RE: Walsh: BA To Talk To Airbus About A350 XWB

Tue Dec 05, 2006 7:47 am

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 17):

Can you imagine if BA put 77W on the JFK-LHR route in place of some of the 777-200ER/767s already on that route.

If BA go for the 77W & 748, they would have to take them with GE engines, no? They currently have 57 744's all with RR. That is something I do not think RR would be too pleased about!

But with the 350/380 and 787, they can have a choice, so I don't think it is just Airbus and Boeing that will be doing the selling here. RR has too much to lose.
 
egnr
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RE: Walsh: BA To Talk To Airbus About A350 XWB

Tue Dec 05, 2006 8:07 am

Could BA simply skip having a 763-sized aircraft in its fleet?

Looking back at this post, BA only has 12 longhaul configured 763s (although this may have changed since that thread was started. Could BA not 'abuse' B772s on these routes, as other ailrines have done. The operational costs would likely be higher with the B772s, but could that be off-set by the savings made by eliminating the 767s from the fleet?

European services could be standardised around the Airbus A320 family - with the A321 being used in place of the 757 and 767, with increased frequency if required.

Just a thought...
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EI321
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RE: Walsh: BA To Talk To Airbus About A350 XWB

Tue Dec 05, 2006 8:16 am

Quoting EGNR (Reply 19):
European services could be standardised around the Airbus A320 family - with the A321 being used in place of the 757 and 767, with increased frequency if required.

How many 767s are BA using on european routes now?
 
egnr
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RE: Walsh: BA To Talk To Airbus About A350 XWB

Tue Dec 05, 2006 8:24 am

Quoting EI321 (Reply 20):
How many 767s are BA using on european routes now?

The info I looked at said BA's 763 fleet was 21 aircraft - so that would leave 9 763s being used on shorthauls.
7late7, A3latey, Sukhoi Superlate... what's going on?
 
boysteve
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RE: Walsh: BA To Talk To Airbus About A350 XWB

Tue Dec 05, 2006 8:50 am

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 3):
Yeah but the 787 is going to less expensive for them compared to the A350 and Boeing will probably be starting to take orders for the Y3 for delivery around 2015 or so. That would be an airplane that would obsolete the A350-1000/77W/748I/A380.

OK, maybe the Y3 could obsolete the A350 and B777 sometime by 2020. However it will not obsolete the A380. If the A380 is the right plane for BA then they will choose it. However it will not be usurped by Y3.
 
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Stitch
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RE: Walsh: BA To Talk To Airbus About A350 XWB

Tue Dec 05, 2006 8:55 am

Quoting Keesje (Reply 16):
Will the 787 be type rated with the 767 and 777?

Not to the level the Airbus family or the 757/767 is, but it should be a quicker path to train a 767 or 777 pilot on the 787.

Quoting EGNR (Reply 19):
Could BA simply skip having a 763-sized aircraft in its fleet?

Either way they're going to have to, as both the 787-8 and A358 are larger (the A358 being more so).
 
Geo772
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RE: Walsh: BA To Talk To Airbus About A350 XWB

Tue Dec 05, 2006 8:55 am

Quoting EGNR (Reply 21):
Quoting EI321 (Reply 20):
How many 767s are BA using on european routes now?

The info I looked at said BA's 763 fleet was 21 aircraft - so that would leave 9 763s being used on shorthauls.

BA have 14 in longhaul config and 7 in shorthaul.
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RedChili
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RE: Walsh: BA To Talk To Airbus About A350 XWB

Tue Dec 05, 2006 9:08 am

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 3):
Yeah but the 787 is going to less expensive for them compared to the A350



Quoting NYC777 (Reply 3):
Boeing will probably be starting to take orders for the Y3 for delivery around 2015 or so. That would be an airplane that would obsolete the A350-1000/77W/748I/A380.

I'm impressed by your prophetic gift. Not only do you know how big discount Airbus will offer BA on the XWB, but you also know the specifications for the Y3 even before Boeing has even decided to build the airplane!

Quoting Stitch (Reply 4):
BA will be taking ten (?) 773ERs soon via options exercise

IIRC, BA has secured ten 777 production slots which could be used for any 777 model.

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 14):
"British Airways Adds an Eighth At Eight
Monday December 4, 12:46 pm ET
Additional Morning Flight Increases New York's JFK to London Heathrow Service to Eight Daily Flights "*

This takes the advantage away of flying the A380 on this route...seems as if BA is only interested in offering more frequencies on what is certainly one of their core-flagship routes..

My conclusion to the above news is the opposite of yours: With eight daily departures on this route, there's no point in increasing the frequency anymore. It is also possible that the only reason why BA chose to add one extra flight is that they don't have any bigger airplanes to use on this route. BA wanted to raise the capacity on LHR-JFK, and they were forced to add an extra flight to get more seats.

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 17):
Can you imagine if BA put 77W on the JFK-LHR route in place of some of the 777-200ER/767s already on that route.

I made a quick search on Amadeus for 7 December, and on that date, BA has seven 744s and one 772 flying LHR-JFK (no 767).
Top 10 airplanes: B737, T154, B747, IL96, T134, IL62, A320, MD80, B757, DC10
 
harleyf150
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RE: Walsh: BA To Talk To Airbus About A350 XWB

Tue Dec 05, 2006 9:43 am

Spoke to a BA pilot today at Heathrow after my flight from Manchester and i asked him what his thought's were on BA's future orders,he said that nothing would be made public until the pensions had been sorted out and he mentioned 10 777's either 200LR's or 300ER's,747-800 Advanced and the 787 not once did he mention airbus he also mentioned that it would probably be a year or so before BA made all of this public
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: Walsh: BA To Talk To Airbus About A350 XWB

Tue Dec 05, 2006 9:49 am

Quoting Revelation (Reply 13):
At today's Airbus press conference, it was mentioned that A330 is sold out till 2010.

But, if you want a new A-330 delivered in 2008 or 2009, we can do it.  Yeah sure

Quoting Boysteve (Reply 22):
OK, maybe the Y3 could obsolete the A350 and B777 sometime by 2020. However it will not obsolete the A380. If the A380 is the right plane for BA then they will choose it. However it will not be usurped by Y3

With four engines, the A-380 may be obsolete now. I would not say, today the Y-3 will not usurpe the A-380, just like I won't say an "A-360" will not.  Wow!

Quoting RedChili (Reply 25):
IIRC, BA has secured ten 777 production slots which could be used for any 777 model.

That is correct.  checkmark 
 
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PM
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RE: Walsh: BA To Talk To Airbus About A350 XWB

Tue Dec 05, 2006 11:00 am

Quoting Adria (Reply 6):
it would be a surprise to see Airbus wide-bodies in the BA colours.

Only a matter of time, I'd say.

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 14):
BA have 61 Boeing 767/777's (with an option for 10 more 777's)...and with the 787's being type rated with the two aforementioned planes

Uh? Whatever similarities their may be in design philosophy I think it's going too far to talk of these three being "type-rated". The 767 and 777 aren't currently "type-rated".

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 3):
That would be an airplane that would obsolete the A350-1000/77W/748I/A380.



Quoting Boysteve (Reply 22):
OK, maybe the Y3 could obsolete the A350 and B777 sometime by 2020. However it will not obsolete the A380.

Guys - stop it! There is no such verb as "to obsolete"!

Quoting HARLEYF150 (Reply 26):
Spoke to a BA pilot today at Heathrow after my flight from Manchester and i asked him what his thought's were on BA's future orders,he said that nothing would be made public until the pensions had been sorted out and he mentioned 10 777's either 200LR's or 300ER's,747-800 Advanced and the 787 not once did he mention airbus

In my experience (having sat in many a cockpit in the days when you were allowed to and knowing several SR pilots in the old days), most airline pilots know less about planes than most of us on A.Net. In 2000 I was in the cockpit of an SQ 777 between BNE and SIN with the captain telling me that SQ would never (again) order Airbus widebodies. Not much later they ordered A380s and A340s and have now ordered (OK, leased A330s) and signed a LoI for A350s. Guys like him know how to fly the things but their wider knowledge is often pretty limited. A Swissair pilot once told me that SR would never get rid of their 747s... "You can't be a first division airline without the 747," was his ill-informed (and wrong) belief. The 747s were all gone shortly thereafter and he was moved to A320s...
 
Iloveboeing
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RE: Walsh: BA To Talk To Airbus About A350 XWB

Tue Dec 05, 2006 11:27 am

Quoting HARLEYF150 (Reply 26):
Spoke to a BA pilot today at Heathrow after my flight from Manchester and i asked him what his thought's were on BA's future orders,he said that nothing would be made public until the pensions had been sorted out and he mentioned 10 777's either 200LR's or 300ER's,747-800 Advanced and the 787 not once did he mention airbus he also mentioned that it would probably be a year or so before BA made all of this public

It would be wise for BA to get their pensions sorted out and then place their orders. The financing needs to come from somewhere.
 
jacobin777
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RE: Walsh: BA To Talk To Airbus About A350 XWB

Tue Dec 05, 2006 11:41 am

Quoting Scotron11 (Reply 18):

If BA go for the 77W & 748, they would have to take them with GE engines, no? They currently have 57 744's all with RR. That is something I do not think RR would be too pleased about!

BA has resigned a multi-year/multi-billion $ service contrcact with GE..so that won't be a problem...

Also, that hasn't stopped "traditional" RR carriers such as CX to switch either....

Quoting EGNR (Reply 19):
Could BA simply skip having a 763-sized aircraft in its fleet?

I think the 763 is very important in certain routes such as DTW..and some of the smaller routes which BA wouldn't want to give up on.....also, the 763 allows them more flexibility ..ie. 1x763 and 2x772 rather than 1x744 and 1x772...

Quoting Keesje (Reply 16):

I think 25% operating costs is a lot (772 vs 359) and pilot conversion costs are not that high.

I'll believe the numbers when I see them....

Quoting Keesje (Reply 16):

Will the 787 be type rated with the 767 and 777?

Yes....

Quoting Stitch (Reply 23):
Not to the level the Airbus family or the 757/767 is, but it should be a quicker path to train a 767 or 777 pilot on the 787.

Actually, to that level..

"For instance, even though it may look a little different, the 787 flight deck operates just like the flight deck on a 777. It will take as few as five days of training for 777 pilots to qualify as 787 pilots. The pilot pool for operators of 777 / 787 mixed fleets will be the same.

.......and the commonality extends to our other products as well. For pilots of 757's and 767's, it will take only eight days of training to become qualified on our 787"

www.boeing.com/randy

Quoting RedChili (Reply 25):
My conclusion to the above news is the opposite of yours: With eight daily departures on this route, there's no point in increasing the frequency anymore. It is also possible that the only reason why BA chose to add one extra flight is that they don't have any bigger airplanes to use on this route. BA wanted to raise the capacity on LHR-JFK, and they were forced to add an extra flight to get more seats.

BA remove 744's from other destinations such as ORD, LAX...and if they need the 744's they have them available.

Also, BA would be sending the flight "back-to-back" so to speak if they need additional lift..not at a different time.. no 
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RE: Walsh: BA To Talk To Airbus About A350 XWB

Tue Dec 05, 2006 12:17 pm

I am suprised that no one has mentioned the 787 10. I thought that a BA order may actually bring the 787 10 from speculation to reality. Boeing can give BA a fleet of 787-8 and 787 10s to replace the 763 and 772.
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jacobin777
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RE: Walsh: BA To Talk To Airbus About A350 XWB

Tue Dec 05, 2006 12:32 pm

Quoting PM (Reply 28):
Uh? Whatever similarities their may be in design philosophy I think it's going too far to talk of these three being "type-rated". The 767 and 777 aren't currently "type-rated".

You may want to reconsider there mate... Wink

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 30):
"For instance, even though it may look a little different, the 787 flight deck operates just like the flight deck on a 777. It will take as few as five days of training for 777 pilots to qualify as 787 pilots. The pilot pool for operators of 777 / 787 mixed fleets will be the same.

.......and the commonality extends to our other products as well. For pilots of 757's and 767's, it will take only eight days of training to become qualified on our 787"

www.boeing.com/randy
"Up the Irons!"
 
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PM
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RE: Walsh: BA To Talk To Airbus About A350 XWB

Tue Dec 05, 2006 12:54 pm

@ Jacobin777 Post #32

OK, humour me. What do we understand by the term "type-rated" (and is that the term we want)? I may well be wrong but we're into the following general area, aren't we?

* A pilot who is qualified to fly an MD-81 in the morning could - I assume - fly an MD-87 in the afternoon. (Someone will correct me if I'm wrong.)
* And am I being a bit simple-minded to assume they could transfer to an MD-90 or even a Boeing 717 without much training?

So far, so good.

* Meanwhile, the A330 and A340 were designed to be flown by a common pool of pilots and that is often what happens. (Again, someone will put me right if necessary.)

* But a pilot of a DC-10 would need to be retrained before she was qualified on an L-1011. How long would that take? A week? Three weeks? Two months? I have no idea. (Although, I have a pilot friend who went from MD-80 to 747-300 to 757/767 to A330 in the time I knew him and none of these transitions seemed to put him on the ground for long.)

But now Randy is suggesting that the 767/777/787 scenario is close enough to the MD-80/MD-90/717 model to count as ... as what? Not a single type rating, surely?

Will the 767 to 787 or 777 to 787 transitions be comparable to the A320 to A330 to A340 to A380 or what?

I guess I'm saying that Airbus can boast that there isn't much between flying an A330 and an A340 but I find it hard to believe that the transition from 757/767/777 to 787 will be as easy.

Maybe I'm wrong. (But not because Saint Randy says so  Wink )
 
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RayChuang
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RE: Walsh: BA To Talk To Airbus About A350 XWB

Tue Dec 05, 2006 12:56 pm

I think it's likely that BA maybe looking at buying the A350XWB-800 as a true 767-300(ER) replacement, though it will likely compete against the 787-9 for this same order.
 
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Stitch
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RE: Walsh: BA To Talk To Airbus About A350 XWB

Tue Dec 05, 2006 1:13 pm

Well I can see Boeing making the 787 cockpit as close to the 777 as possible since that was meant to be Boeing's "two-pronged" family - the 787 on the "low" end of capacity and the 777 on the "high end" so allowing pilots to move between them as easily as between the 757 and 767 would be an incentive for airlines to choose the 787 and 777 as a package just as many chose the 757 and 767.
 
jacobin777
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RE: Walsh: BA To Talk To Airbus About A350 XWB

Tue Dec 05, 2006 1:34 pm

Quoting PM (Reply 33):
OK, humour me.

I really don't think there is anything to be humoured about there mate...when Randy compares the economics of the 747-8I to that of the A380, then sure, that's debatable..but if Rand says the 787 is a "twin-engined aircraft" that isn't..and as such, he has basically stated the amount of time (and potential pool of pilots) it will take for the aforementioned pilots to become 787 qualified....
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PM
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RE: Walsh: BA To Talk To Airbus About A350 XWB

Tue Dec 05, 2006 1:52 pm

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 14):
BA have 61 Boeing 767/777's (with an option for 10 more 777's)...and with the 787's being type rated with the two aforementioned planes



Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 36):
the amount of time (and potential pool of pilots) it will take for the aforementioned pilots to become 787 qualified....

Is that a goalpost I see slipping to the left...?  Wink

Reply 14 : 'the 787 will be type rated with the 767 and 777'

Reply 36 : 'Randy says that it won't take long to transfer from one type to another'

I doubt if it takes very long to transfer from a 767 to a 777 but they certainly aren't "type rated" (and I'm still not sure that's the correct term).
 
jacobin777
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RE: Walsh: BA To Talk To Airbus About A350 XWB

Tue Dec 05, 2006 2:01 pm

Quoting PM (Reply 37):
I doubt if it takes very long to transfer from a 767 to a 777 but they certainly aren't "type rated" (and I'm still not sure that's the correct term).

I think its a matter of semantics both Boeing and Airbus like to play... Wink
"Up the Irons!"
 
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RE: Walsh: BA To Talk To Airbus About A350 XWB

Tue Dec 05, 2006 2:16 pm

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 38):

I think its a matter of semantics both Boeing and Airbus like to play...  Wink

Agreed. Though, just for the record, this is one game where Airbus currently have better cards than Boeing.  Wink

There probably isn't a straight answer, is there? Transferring from a BAe 146 to a 747-300 is, I assume, possible but isn't likely to be done in a hurry. Switching from an MD-11 to a 777 is probably quicker. Moving from a 737-200 to a 737-300 is faster still. By the time you are an LX pilot with both A330-200s and A340-300s to play with we're probably about as close as you can currently get (short of flying different fuselage lengths of the same basic narrowbody). Where the 767-777-787 will sit on this continuum I don't know. Randy will claim they're more or less the same cockpit. In reality, they'll be closer than some examples above but farther apart than others.

This is becoming boring even to me - and I'm sitting here writing this rubbish...
 
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RE: Walsh: BA To Talk To Airbus About A350 XWB

Tue Dec 05, 2006 6:19 pm

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 38):
I think its a matter of semantics both Boeing and Airbus like to play...

No, Type Rated is a precise term and the 787 will not be type rated with the 767 nor 777. Furthermore, it realy should be obvious since the systems are completely different.
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Danny
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RE: Walsh: BA To Talk To Airbus About A350 XWB

Tue Dec 05, 2006 7:32 pm

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 30):
Quoting Keesje (Reply 16):

Will the 787 be type rated with the 767 and 777?

Yes....

I don't believe that. That would mean that you could also have common rating for A320 and B737. It is basically complete denial of type ratings.
 
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RE: Walsh: BA To Talk To Airbus About A350 XWB

Tue Dec 05, 2006 7:34 pm

Quoting Scotron11 (Reply 18):
But with the 350/380 and 787, they can have a choice, so I don't think it is just Airbus and Boeing that will be doing the selling here. RR has too much to lose.

I'm not aware of a second engine option on the 350? GE is a no, and Pratt, IMO, is not interested.
To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy.” Sun Tzu
 
RichardPrice
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RE: Walsh: BA To Talk To Airbus About A350 XWB

Tue Dec 05, 2006 7:40 pm

Quoting Glideslope (Reply 42):
I'm not aware of a second engine option on the 350? GE is a no, and Pratt, IMO, is not interested.

GE and Airbus are still in discussions, according to the press conference yesterday, and Pratt have said previously that they are considering an Engine Alliance offering.

http://www.sbac.co.uk/community/cms/...iew/news_item_view.asp?i=11592&t=0
 
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RE: Walsh: BA To Talk To Airbus About A350 XWB

Tue Dec 05, 2006 7:47 pm

Lets get back to BA and the A350.
All this talk of type ratings makes my head spin because there is so much wrong information here!
BA operates B757 and B767 in Europe. I see no reason why the B757 should not be replaced by more A321. On the routes that BA uses the B757 on, the A321 is adequate (and a bit bigger) (194 seats against 180 in BA config).
But the B767 in its 250 seat shorthaul config is a special aircraft. It carries full size pallets. BA must decide if it wants to stay in the palletised cargo market in Europe. On the shorter routes the pallets travel by lorry to London, but this is not an option on DME ATH IST and LCA, and a very slow option from ARN. BA flies a lot of pallets out of ARN, which because they are built up can do a tarmac transfer at LHR direct onto a B744 or B777. There are 6 flights a week (from ARN) on B767, and a Sat DHL A300. All these flights are full of freight. I see all the A350 as being too big for this market, and wonder if BA would go for the A330-200 as a palletised freight carrier to replace its European B767, to complement the A350 for long haul?
 
columba
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RE: Walsh: BA To Talk To Airbus About A350 XWB

Tue Dec 05, 2006 8:00 pm

BA like EK and LH were mainly interested in the longer version of the 787, the dash 10.
Boeing has been pretty quiet about the -10 recently on the other hand you seem the CEO´s or other manager of these airlines speaking very positive about the A350, even Mr.Clark. In the German newspaper FAZ there was an article quoting a LH manager who said that the A350 looks very promising and that the advantage for them would be the common type rate with their A330/A340 fleet and training cost won´t be that high - an argument of course not valid for BA.
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
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Stitch
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RE: Walsh: BA To Talk To Airbus About A350 XWB

Tue Dec 05, 2006 11:34 pm

Quoting TristarSteve (Reply 44):
But the B767 in its 250 seat short-haul config is a special aircraft. It carries full size pallets...All these flights are full of freight. I see all the A350 as being too big for this market, and wonder if BA would go for the A330-200...to replace its European B767, to complement the A350 for long haul?

In an Airbus fleet, it makes sense to me.

It could be a nice niche for the 787-3 to fill (plenty of space for people and pallets) to complement the 787-8 if Boeing is their choice.
 
jacobin777
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RE: Walsh: BA To Talk To Airbus About A350 XWB

Tue Dec 05, 2006 11:44 pm

Quoting PM (Reply 39):

Agreed. Though, just for the record, this is one game where Airbus currently have better cards than Boeing.  Wink

Lol..if you are talking about Airbus' games on semantics, I'm not arguing with you there... Wink

Quoting Planemaker (Reply 40):

No, Type Rated is a precise term and the 787 will not be type rated with the 767 nor 777. Furthermore, it realy should be obvious since the systems are completely different.

Hey, I'm not arguing..I'm only commenting on what the comments are by various people.... Wink

However, even if the type systems are different, it will take only a few days for cross-training..which is a majour advantage..

Quoting TristarSteve (Reply 44):
and wonder if BA would go for the A330-200 as a palletised freight carrier to replace its European B767, to complement the A350 for long haul?

The B787-8 would be perfectly suited and will (in theory) have much better economics than an A330

Quoting Columba (Reply 45):
BA like EK and LH were mainly interested in the longer version of the 787, the dash 10.
Boeing has been pretty quiet about the -10 recently

Actually, Boeing has basically given the "go" for the 787-10..its just a matter of the engine manufacturers getting the thrust ratings high enough....

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 43):
GE and Airbus are still in discussions, according to the press conference yesterday, and Pratt have said previously that they are considering an Engine Alliance offering.

http://www.sbac.co.uk/community/cms/...2&t=0

GE has always stated they don't have a problem powering the lower end of the A350's (especially the A358), but given the relation and investment GE has with Boeing on the 777 and 748 platform, I highly doubt GE will even come close to the A350-1000.....

Cheers.
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