spantax
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Ryanair: Why Not Charleroi-Stansted?

Tue Dec 05, 2006 1:46 am

In the past FR used to fly this route. I don't think it is a question of slots as there are plenty of them still available at CRL and maybe some at STN. Charleroi ("Brussels South" as FR calls it, I would call this practice "linguistic piracy") is an important base for FR: 20 routes. So, why not Stansted? (P.S: I am sure this has been discussed in the past but couldn't find the thread). Regards
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BDL2DCA
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Ryanair: Why Not Charleroi-Stansted?

Tue Dec 05, 2006 1:55 am

I'm just hazarding a guess here, but the travel time from LON to BRU via STN and CRL might just be far too long to make a market of it when the train can make it from Waterloo to Midi in just under 2:30.

Yes, I know Ryanair is not the Eurostar, but Eurostar fares aren't prohibitively expensive, and I bet the combo of transport to Stansted + Ryanair fare to CRL + Transport from CRL to Brussels might just add up to the Eurostar fare.
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Bongodog1964
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Ryanair: Why Not Charleroi-Stansted?

Tue Dec 05, 2006 2:00 am

Wasn't the withdrawal of this route to do with FR's negative passenger fees at this airport being declared illegal ?
 
diesel1
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RE: RYANAIR: WHY NOT CHARLEROI-STANSTED?

Tue Dec 05, 2006 2:07 am

FR's withdrawal on this route followed the EU ruling on 'illegal' subsidies. IIRC there was much noise from Michael O'Leary.

In my opinion, the EU did FR a favour as it gave them the opportunity to drop this high profile route, whilst claiming foul play, whilst in reality the route was un-profitable, was unlikely to ever turn a profit, and was under constant pressure from Eurostar.

Recent history on routes to Belgium from the UK has not been favourable for UK airlines - it's suprising how few flights there are...
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thediplomat
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RE: Ryanair: Why Not Charleroi-Stansted?

Tue Dec 05, 2006 2:50 am

Quoting Diesel1 (Reply 3):
In my opinion, the EU did FR a favour as it gave them the opportunity to drop this high profile route, whilst claiming foul play, whilst in reality the route was un-profitable, was unlikely to ever turn a profit, and was under constant pressure from Eurostar.

You have it in one - O'leary always manages to find someone else to blame for a route closure, not that they have many!

Quoting Diesel1 (Reply 3):
Recent history on routes to Belgium from the UK has not been favourable for UK airlines - it's suprising how few flights there are...

The Belgian - UK market is an unusual one, not helped by the lack of tourism appeal in Belgium. The market is very seasonal, and peaky on Mondays and Fridays - which doesnt help with profitability or scheduling. Its also a government route - which tends to mean state flag carriers.
 
spantax
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RE: Ryanair: Why Not Charleroi-Stansted?

Tue Dec 05, 2006 4:58 am

Thank you to all for your answers. So, the question is basically money. What is difficult to believe is that Charleroi (well, it is not Brussels but it lies close to Brussels and many passengers of CRL come from the Brussels area: Erasmus students, tourists and all kind of people) is less attractive than, say, Deauville or Dinard (Normandy, France) or Tours or Eindhoven, all places with an Standsted route. And I don't know if the Eurostar is such a big competitor as the fares are not specially cheap. Regards.
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Bongodog1964
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RE: Ryanair: Why Not Charleroi-Stansted?

Tue Dec 05, 2006 7:05 am

Quoting Spantax (Reply 5):
Thank you to all for your answers. So, the question is basically money. What is difficult to believe is that Charleroi (well, it is not Brussels but it lies close to Brussels and many passengers of CRL come from the Brussels area: Erasmus students, tourists and all kind of people) is less attractive than, say, Deauville or Dinard (Normandy, France) or Tours or Eindhoven, all places with an Standsted route. And I don't know if the Eurostar is such a big competitor as the fares are not specially cheap. Regards.

I think it also has something to do with British perceptions of what is a good destination; we have a good number of Brits buying or renting holiday cottages in France, which then provides a regular demand for seats.

I'm afraid that Belgium doesn't seem to "do it" for us. Maybe you need a good marketing campaign to get over the British joke about the impossible task; which is said to be "name 10 famous Belgians"

Also many British flying to Brussels are on EU business, and thus so intent on spending taxpayers money that they would only consider an airline that offers business class.
 
Pe@rson
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RE: Ryanair: Why Not Charleroi-Stansted?

Tue Dec 05, 2006 8:07 pm

For an accurate view of where customers using CRL come from, read a page (I forget which) in the 29th March indepedent report: http://www.ryanair.com/site/EN/about...age=Invest&sec=atreports&cov=davy. In essence, do not always assume a large number come from the nearest big city.

[Edited 2006-12-05 12:11:20]
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Joost
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RE: Ryanair: Why Not Charleroi-Stansted?

Wed Dec 06, 2006 3:41 am

Quoting Spantax (Reply 5):
What is difficult to believe is that Charleroi (well, it is not Brussels but it lies close to Brussels and many passengers of CRL come from the Brussels area: Erasmus students, tourists and all kind of people) is less attractive than, say, Deauville or Dinard (Normandy, France) or Tours or Eindhoven, all places with an Standsted route. And I don't know if the Eurostar is such a big competitor as the fares are not specially cheap.

Well, they won't have any problem filling the aircraft with these 1 euro-fares, with the Erasmus students, budget-tourists, etc. But that's not how they can earn money. They average cost per pax for Ryanair are EUR 40, average revenue EUR 49. And that is a problem, to fill seats on CRL-STN for an average of 40 euros, as it will include quite some 159 EUR fares. And when charging EUR 159, the Eurostar is a big competitor, especially in the business segment.

Next to that, from Brussels downtown to London downtown is more convenient by Eurostar than CRL-STN and the ground transport. From for example Eindhoven, the alternative for many people is flying from AMS; here flying from Eindhoven is for many people such a convenience, that they can compete, even with 159 EUR oneway fares.
 
vinniewinnie
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RE: Ryanair: Why Not Charleroi-Stansted?

Thu Dec 07, 2006 2:30 am

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 6):
I think it also has something to do with British perceptions of what is a good destination; we have a good number of Brits buying or renting holiday cottages in France, which then provides a regular demand for seats.

I'm afraid that Belgium doesn't seem to "do it" for us. Maybe you need a good marketing campaign to get over the British joke about the impossible task; which is said to be "name 10 famous Belgians"

Also many British flying to Brussels are on EU business, and thus so intent on spending taxpayers money that they would only consider an airline that offers business class.

Yeah well Brugge does it better for Brits still though they cancelled the Ostend-Stansted daily flight fairly quickly.

A better explanation has been given by BDL2CA:

Quoting BDL2DCA (Reply 1):
I'm just hazarding a guess here, but the travel time from LON to BRU via STN and CRL might just be far too long to make a market of it when the train can make it from Waterloo to Midi in just under 2:30.

Yes, I know Ryanair is not the Eurostar, but Eurostar fares aren't prohibitively expensive, and I bet the combo of transport to Stansted + Ryanair fare to CRL + Transport from CRL to Brussels might just add up to the Eurostar fare.



Quoting Diesel1 (Reply 3):
Recent history on routes to Belgium from the UK has not been favourable for UK airlines - it's suprising how few flights there are...

Are you kiddin me?

For tomorrow 07/12/06:

BMI: 7 flights to Brussels from LHR
BA: 7 fligths to Brussels from LHR
SN: 2 flights to Brussels from LGW
Eurostar: 9 Trains to Brussels from Waterloo station!

Grant total 25 different possibilities. And if you want to stretch it you could even include buses and car travel which exists as well!
 
Bongodog1964
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RE: Ryanair: Why Not Charleroi-Stansted?

Thu Dec 07, 2006 2:55 am

Quoting Vinniewinnie (Reply 9):
Yes, I know Ryanair is not the Eurostar, but Eurostar fares aren't prohibitively expensive, and I bet the combo of transport to Stansted + Ryanair fare to CRL + Transport from CRL to Brussels might just add up to the Eurostar fare.

In all probability Eurostar would be cheaper and as quick if you are travelling from London, particularly with the present security problems at STN you need to allow 3 hours from Central London to take off. I don't know the cost of Charleroi - Brussels, but the cost from central London - STN is enought to make a grown man cry.

Quoting Vinniewinnie (Reply 9):
BMI: 7 flights to Brussels from LHR
BA: 7 fligths to Brussels from LHR
SN: 2 flights to Brussels from LGW
Eurostar: 9 Trains to Brussels from Waterloo station!

Its those eurocrats in Club Eurpoe !!!!
 
vinniewinnie
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RE: Ryanair: Why Not Charleroi-Stansted?

Thu Dec 07, 2006 11:55 pm

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 10):
Its those eurocrats in Club Eurpoe !!!!

Lol

In the meantime i totally forgot the vlm flights so add 5 daily flights and you get 30 connections!
 
N1120A
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RE: Ryanair: Why Not Charleroi-Stansted?

Fri Dec 08, 2006 1:25 am

Quoting Diesel1 (Reply 3):
In my opinion, the EU did FR a favour as it gave them the opportunity to drop this high profile route, whilst claiming foul play, whilst in reality the route was un-profitable, was unlikely to ever turn a profit, and was under constant pressure from Eurostar.

A bit like AA blaming the lifting of the Wright Amendment to Missouri for their closure of DFW-LIM.

Quoting Spantax (Reply 5):
And I don't know if the Eurostar is such a big competitor as the fares are not specially cheap.

If you are under 26, Eurostar can be an excellent deal. That is a lot of FR's draw

Quoting VinnieWinnie (Reply 11):
In the meantime i totally forgot the vlm flights so add 5 daily flights and you get 30 connections!

Given that they fly into City, that is definately business traffic
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trintocan
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RE: Ryanair: Why Not Charleroi-Stansted?

Fri Dec 08, 2006 8:22 am

It is definitely Eurostar which is the biggest factor here. If you consider the much larger London to Paris route, Eurostar has snatched a huge share of the market to the point that many of the flights that remain (BA and AF in particular) mostly carry connecting passengers.

9 Eurostar services from Waterloo to Midi is quite a lot, especially when one considers that each train can take about 500 passengers! The train is actually nearly half a kilometre long. Then consider the convenience of getting into the centres of the respective cities and, in the case of Brussels, the ability to connect for free to any Belgian city by train and one sees that Eurostar has a hugely difficult act for any airline to match.

The heavy business accent to this particular route adds to the dilemma against Ryanair, the city centre arrivals again weighing in favour of the train. In the future, with the new Channel Tunnel Rail Link in operation, the train times will be shortened by 20 minutes and trains could also run more frequently (the need to share commuter tracks to Waterloo presently being a major bottleneck), the pendulum may well shift further towards Eurostar.

We all love airlines here but Eurostar is great - very comfortable, smooth and fast. One ride on it and you may well decide to use it whenever you can.

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N1120A
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RE: Ryanair: Why Not Charleroi-Stansted?

Fri Dec 08, 2006 9:07 am

Quoting Trintocan (Reply 13):
The train is actually nearly half a kilometre long.

Actually, I believe it is nearly a half mile (800m) long.
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Dakota
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RE: Ryanair: Why Not Charleroi-Stansted?

Thu Dec 14, 2006 12:46 am

From June 1st, Ryanair will resume flights between Stansted and Charleroi Brussels South with 4 flights a week:

http://www.ryanair.com/site/EN/news....r=06&month=dec&story=rte-en-131206

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