KarlB737
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USAirways Sweetens Deal With Pilots

Tue Dec 05, 2006 7:13 am

Courtesy: Associated Press

USAirways Sweetens Deal With Pilots

"the company would pay to bring everyone up to the more lucrative America West contract."

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/061204/us_airways_pilots.html?.v=1

[Edited 2006-12-04 23:15:21]
 
silentbob
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RE: USAirways Sweetens Deal With Pilots

Tue Dec 05, 2006 8:49 am

And it's still not enough. Evidently some people won't be happy until they bankrupt the airline yet again.
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: USAirways Sweetens Deal With Pilots

Tue Dec 05, 2006 8:56 am

Quoting Silentbob (Reply 1):
And it's still not enough. Evidently some people won't be happy until they bankrupt the airline yet again.

That WILL happen IF Doug Parker is successful in his hostile bid for DL.
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
 
A330323X
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RE: USAirways Sweetens Deal With Pilots

Tue Dec 05, 2006 9:09 am

Quoting Silentbob (Reply 1):
And it's still not enough. Evidently some people won't be happy until they bankrupt the airline yet again.

It's not just about the pay.

Did you know, for example, that the company has offered proposals for things like vacation and sick that are in fact *worse* than either the existing HP contract or US contract?

Yeah, I thought not.  Yeah sure
I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
 
jetdeltamsy
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RE: USAirways Sweetens Deal With Pilots

Tue Dec 05, 2006 9:53 am

The wording amuses me...they will bring everyone "up to the more lucrative America West contract rate". America West pilots are still among the lowest paid in the industry. That's some "lucrative".
Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
 
RiddlePilot215
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RE: USAirways Sweetens Deal With Pilots

Tue Dec 05, 2006 9:58 am

Quoting KarlB737 (Thread starter):
Courtesy: Associated Press

USAirways Sweetens Deal With Pilots

"the company would pay to bring everyone up to the more lucrative America West contract."

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/061204/us_ai...?.v=1

Extremely crappy pay and benefits, upgraded to crappy pay and benefits is still crappy pay and benefits.

Parker is just a tight ass, who refuses to do anything, because any dips in cashflow and performance, means that he doesn't get such a large bonus check, and stock benefits when it's time to file the 10K.
God is good, all the time. All the time, God is good.
 
LawnDart
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RE: USAirways Sweetens Deal With Pilots

Tue Dec 05, 2006 2:03 pm

Quoting KarlB737 (Thread starter):
"the company would pay to bring everyone up to the more lucrative America West contract."

Is this the "synergy" Delta pilots can expect if the hostile take-over is successful?

Quoting RiddlePilot215 (Reply 5):
means that he doesn't get such a large bonus check, and stock benefits when it's time to file the 10K.

Or is this the "synergy" Parker keeps talking about?
 
atlaaron
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RE: USAirways Sweetens Deal With Pilots

Tue Dec 05, 2006 2:11 pm

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 4):
The wording amuses me...they will bring everyone "up to the more lucrative America West contract rate". America West pilots are still among the lowest paid in the industry. That's some "lucrative".

This amuses me, because there is always going to be one airline that has the lowest pay, the highest pay, and then everyone in between. So who is it you would think would be fair "to be among the lowest?"

Don't people realize that US is not more profitable than it has been in a VERY long time. If you want raises and want benefits to go back at levels they were in the past, then basically you want the company to go back to where it used to be? Amazing.
 
jmc1975
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RE: USAirways Sweetens Deal With Pilots

Tue Dec 05, 2006 2:23 pm

Quoting RiddlePilot215 (Reply 5):
Parker is just a tight ass, who refuses to do anything, because any dips in cashflow and performance, means that he doesn't get such a large bonus check, and stock benefits when it's time to file the 10K.

It never ceases to amaze me how some people here are such experts on Doug Parker.  rotfl 
.......
 
SonOfACaptain
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RE: USAirways Sweetens Deal With Pilots

Tue Dec 05, 2006 3:14 pm

Quoting Jmc1975 (Reply 8):
It never ceases to amaze me how some people here are such experts on Doug Parker.

Well, naturally when you lead a bankrupt airline back to the black, you must be greedy...right?  sarcastic 

You know, I really don't think Parker has done anything spectacular, but I have to constantly defend him because people always seem to place unfair blame on him for ridiculous claims. For once, I want to get a chance to blast somebody for praising Parker.  Wink

-SOAC
Non Illegitimi Carborundum
 
A330323X
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RE: USAirways Sweetens Deal With Pilots

Tue Dec 05, 2006 3:31 pm

Quoting ATLAaron (Reply 7):
If you want raises and want benefits to go back at levels they were in the past,

Who said anything about that?  Yeah sure

No one is suggesting that. But then again, you already knew that, and just felt like making a strawman argument.

Quoting SonOfACaptain (Reply 9):
You know, I really don't think Parker has done anything spectacular, but I have to constantly defend him because people always seem to place unfair blame on him for ridiculous claims.

I don't know how much access the MEC lets furloughed pilots have on the AAA ALPA site, but if you can get on there and see the JNC reports, you won't like what you see about management's contract proposals.
I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
 
RiddlePilot215
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RE: USAirways Sweetens Deal With Pilots

Tue Dec 05, 2006 4:02 pm

Quoting Jmc1975 (Reply 8):
It never ceases to amaze me how some people here are such experts on Doug Parker.

It's not even an expert opinion. It's just simple economics.

Plain and simple, the airline industry is all about dollar and [lack of] sense. Those that are ruthless, cavalier, and pin-headed enough to demand credit for something as un-spectacular as coordinating a merger between two REALLY bad airlines (which btw, still has horrible labor issues...especially concerning seniority, pay rate, benefits and retirement plans, and employee morale) are the ones that excel at their jobs.

Parker could care less about his employees, and how much their lives probably suck right now. If he did, he wouldn't have tried this little "small airline that's kinda financially sound...takes over the big mamma jamma in Ch.11" scheme, in which a true merger would have just raised all sorts of hell, and would have ultimately ended up with both airlines in a potential Ch. 7 situation. The logistics for that merger idea are so ridiculous I'm working on a new word to describe it all, because there's nothing in the dictionary that can grasp the idiocy of it all.

That's my bit on good 'ole Dougie P
God is good, all the time. All the time, God is good.
 
SonOfACaptain
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RE: USAirways Sweetens Deal With Pilots

Tue Dec 05, 2006 4:06 pm

Quoting A330323X (Reply 10):
I don't know how much access the MEC lets furloughed pilots have on the AAA ALPA site, but if you can get on there and see the JNC reports, you won't like what you see about management's contract proposals.

I haven't seen them yet, so I can only imagine how pathetic they are.

On a side note, how are your Flyers doing this year?  stirthepot 

-SOAC
Non Illegitimi Carborundum
 
thegooddoctor
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RE: USAirways Sweetens Deal With Pilots

Tue Dec 05, 2006 5:30 pm

Quoting Jmc1975 (Reply 8):
It never ceases to amaze me how some people here are such experts on Doug Parker. rotfl

Oh, you haven't heard the A.net scuttlebut? All the experts from ATL and SLC have personally attested to the fact that he is in fact the spawn of satan!

Quoting SonOfACaptain (Reply 9):
You know, I really don't think Parker has done anything spectacular, but I have to constantly defend him because people always seem to place unfair blame on him for ridiculous claims. For once, I want to get a chance to blast somebody for praising Parker.

Come now, are you aren't actually saying it's a good thing that he brought 2 airlines from the brink of death? People of Airliners.net: SonOfACaptain needs to be immediately flamed for his insistance on logic and fairness!

I also would not give Doug Parker a pair of angel's wings - but he has two "failing" airlines breathing again, that might be worth note?
The GoodDoctor
 
bobnwa
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RE: USAirways Sweetens Deal With Pilots

Tue Dec 05, 2006 10:14 pm

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 4):
The wording amuses me...they will bring everyone "up to the more lucrative America West contract rate". America West pilots are still among the lowest paid in the industry. That's some "lucrative

But they are still the highest paid employees at America West by far, including the managers.
 
NoBoeingNoGoin
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RE: USAirways Sweetens Deal With Pilots

Wed Dec 06, 2006 12:40 am

From the crew news on our Employee Website...
The America West Pilots are making about 4 dollars more an hour for Airbus 320 family flying.
Did you know that America West Mainline Gate agents started a about 7 an hour and topped off at around 12?
They are coming to the US mainline scale.. but they will be at the same level in about 2 years
Alex
 
StarCityFlyr
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RE: USAirways Sweetens Deal With Pilots

Wed Dec 06, 2006 1:57 am

Quoting RiddlePilot215 (Reply 5):
Extremely crappy pay and benefits, upgraded to crappy pay and benefits is still crappy pay and benefits.

Parker is just a tight ass, who refuses to do anything, because any dips in cashflow and performance, means that he doesn't get such a large bonus check, and stock benefits when it's time to file the 10K.

I don't think I can recall ever seeing anyone in the airline industry holding any employee hostage for their work. Seems to me that if you don't like the pay you receive doing a job, then you have two simple choices: 1. Decide you like the pay you are receiving and continue working or 2. Find another career that pays at a level that you "think" you're qualified to earn.

I did the latter several months ago and couldn't be happier with the results. At the end of the day, your personal happiness and well being is no ones responsibility but your own.

Sorry to sound so blunt but thats reality.

Safe and happy flying all!
 
emseeeye
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RE: USAirways Sweetens Deal With Pilots

Wed Dec 06, 2006 2:11 am

Quoting StarCityFlyr (Reply 16):
I don't think I can recall ever seeing anyone in the airline industry holding any employee hostage for their work. Seems to me that if you don't like the pay you receive doing a job, then you have two simple choices: 1. Decide you like the pay you are receiving and continue working or 2. Find another career that pays at a level that you "think" you're qualified to earn.

I did the latter several months ago and couldn't be happier with the results. At the end of the day, your personal happiness and well being is no ones responsibility but your own.

Sorry to sound so blunt but thats reality.

As I sit here day after day reading a.net post sometimes I have to ask myself why I gave up aviation in favor of another career. Then I come across something that is so absurd (like the whining in this post about how awful peoples lives are) and I'm glad I'm out. If you dont like it... then do something about it!

StarCityFlyr welcome to my RR list.
 
RiddlePilot215
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RE: USAirways Sweetens Deal With Pilots

Wed Dec 06, 2006 2:31 am

Quoting StarCityFlyr (Reply 16):
I don't think I can recall ever seeing anyone in the airline industry holding any employee hostage for their work. Seems to me that if you don't like the pay you receive doing a job, then you have two simple choices: 1. Decide you like the pay you are receiving and continue working or 2. Find another career that pays at a level that you "think" you're qualified to earn.

The point I was trying to make is simply the fact that America West employees don't make much more than their US counterparts. If US salaries were raised America West's standards, the pay increase would be just enough to cover the amount of taxes that would be taken out of their paychecks to pay them exactly what they're making now.
God is good, all the time. All the time, God is good.
 
F9Animal
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RE: USAirways Sweetens Deal With Pilots

Wed Dec 06, 2006 2:35 am

Quoting RiddlePilot215 (Reply 5):
Extremely crappy pay and benefits, upgraded to crappy pay and benefits is still crappy pay and benefits.

Parker is just a tight ass, who refuses to do anything, because any dips in cashflow and performance, means that he doesn't get such a large bonus check, and stock benefits when it's time to file the 10K.

There are so many pilots out there that are looking for work. If the pilots are unhappy at US, then they can go apply with another airline. I am all for pilots getting good pay and all, but I am also understanding of the need to keep the costs low during a merger. I don't know.... Nobody is ever happy with the amount they make. If US slapped $100,00.00 in cash in each pilots hand as a bonus, they would find a way to call the airline cheap.

Cheap would be locking out the pilots, and hiring a subcontract.

Quoting Jmc1975 (Reply 8):
It never ceases to amaze me how some people here are such experts on Doug Parker. rotfl

LMAO!!! You hit it directly on the nose! Parker is one of the better CEO's out there. He is very ambitious, and seems to have a plan. I have seen him get slammed for even thinking about DL, and got slammed for taking US. Will he get slammed if he is successful?
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
socalfive
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RE: USAirways Sweetens Deal With Pilots

Wed Dec 06, 2006 2:36 am

Quoting SonOfACaptain (Reply 9):
For once, I want to get a chance to blast somebody for praising Parker

Blast Me then. Parker "led" America West out of the toilet to profitability, then has managed to do so with USAirways. Had both companies remained on the former paths they were on, USAirways would definitely have been liquidated and eventually America West could have been as well, although not as likely. What is likely is America West would have been the "target" of a takeover rather than the controlling entity in a takeover. The problems with half you greedy bastards is you expect overnight results, it's not enough that tens of thousands of people were saved from the unemployment lines, so yeah, patience is THE virtue here and all further conversation proves impatience and ignorance to the complexity of the process. Now with that being said...

Quoting RiddlePilot215 (Reply 11):
Plain and simple, the airline industry is all about dollar and [lack of] sense. Those that are ruthless, cavalier, and pin-headed enough to demand credit for something as un-spectacular as coordinating a merger between two REALLY bad airlines (which btw, still has horrible labor issues...especially concerning seniority, pay rate, benefits and retirement plans, and employee morale) are the ones that excel at their jobs.

Unspectacular? As opposed to what, a Super Nova? It's pretty spectacular pal, especially successfully bringing them together profitably in this market climate, there is no "pin-headedness" to any aspect of this process. Do you think Parker never should have accepted the CEO position at that "really bad" America West and if he had, not to work to save it from itself? Since he did save it from itself and led profit, product quality and morale to higher levels than America West had known in a very long time, if ever, do you think it lacked "sense" to look hard at his beleaguered industry and not take pro-active measures to best protect the interests of his investors, creditors and employees? By taking the the initiative to get in front of the then obvious need of industry consolidation, HP wasn't/isn't sucking hind-tit in merger or takeover scenarios. It takes a hell of a lot of intellectual incompetence to make the statements you've made, especially standing on the outside looking in and speaking the way you do.

My concern with Parker is now ego with this move on Delta. However, we know nothing of the real game plan, keep in mind how Parker ricocheted off of ATA to wind up with US, this whole thing is a very big chess game and is a long way from being over. Just keep ego in check Doug, remember, the biggest isn't necessarily the best (AA), the best is CO and WN in the legacy and LCC categories respectively.
 
supa7E7
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RE: USAirways Sweetens Deal With Pilots

Wed Dec 06, 2006 2:54 am

Quoting Silentbob (Reply 1):
Evidently some people won't be happy until they bankrupt the airline yet again.

Good word. There is decades of EVIDENCE that what you say is 100% correct. The equilibrium is at the very edge of bankruptcy. Over time, that has been the industry performance. The reason is pilot unions.

Other industries - managed by the same idiots who run airlines - have done spectacularly well over the same period.

But I don't blame pilots. Their wage is spectacularly high, considering they are not scarce or in much demand. $100k for them is darn respectable, and so is their vacation schedule. You need a PhD to match that on the streets. Hello Professor?

Pilots do what seems obvious to them. Maximize their pay, no matter who gets hurt. But when they start to WHINE... after causing so many people grief over the years... and make illiterate comments about the labor market... very few have the desire to respond, but I will do so, thoughtfully.

US demanding cost neutral pilot contracts was indeed tight fisted. US is renowned for tight fistedness and low pay, up down the line. But they had more business worries 1 yr ago. Turns out offering the HP contract is no big additional burden, even though pilots are already higher paid than any management staff except VPs. Again, good for them. Union strength is predictable. So are bankruptcies and furloughs.

Should they all get a further 10%+ raise? That is a technical question, and the answer is definitely not. Ask any HR professsional or labor economist. If it is a moral question, the answer is yes, they deserve whatever makes their heart warm with delight. Uh-oh, the company will probably go BK.
"Who's to say spaceships aren't fine art?" - Phil Lesh
 
supa7E7
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RE: USAirways Sweetens Deal With Pilots

Wed Dec 06, 2006 3:02 am

Actually I want to say one more thing. Pilots may make better money than company types. But they have also saved many lives with good flying. The last 5 years have been spectacular for the USA airline safety. Pilots bring a lot of professionalism to the job. I feel that's more important than the airlines themselves. Corporate types come and go. But the pilots remain the same (really, the very same guys and gals). Pilots deserve a spot of control. It's drastically unhealthy for the corporations, but maybe it's more healthy for the passengers. Just a thought.
"Who's to say spaceships aren't fine art?" - Phil Lesh
 
saab2000
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RE: USAirways Sweetens Deal With Pilots

Wed Dec 06, 2006 3:13 am

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 19):
There are so many pilots out there that are looking for work.

No longer true. If you have a pulse and a few hundred hours you have a job at a regional. There are, of course, always going to be fully qualified pilots out of work for one reason or another, but the furlough numbers are not the real story anymore.

The pilot and other workers at these airlines have given massive concessions. I don't think it is greed that is what has them asking for a piece of the profit pie now that US Airways is in the black again. Desperate straits required desperate measures a few years ago. Now it is time for the company to acknowledge and pay the people who helped them get back to health.

Compensation parity is the ONLY possible way forward in the merger of these two airlines. There are many more obstacles, of course, but without pay parity there will be a lot of animosity.
smrtrthnu
 
positiverate
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RE: USAirways Sweetens Deal With Pilots

Wed Dec 06, 2006 3:16 am

Quoting RiddlePilot215 (Reply 5):
Parker is just a tight ass, who refuses to do anything, because any dips in cashflow and performance, means that he doesn't get such a large bonus check, and stock benefits when it's time to file the 10K.



Quoting Jmc1975 (Reply 8):
It never ceases to amaze me how some people here are such experts on Doug Parker.

All I need to know about Doug Parker is that he walked away from $5 billion in pension liabilities, only to turn around and "raise" $8 billion to go buy Delta. Class act...
 
flyboyaz
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RE: USAirways Sweetens Deal With Pilots

Wed Dec 06, 2006 4:13 am

Quoting NoBoeingNoGoin (Reply 15):
From the crew news on our Employee Website...
The America West Pilots are making about 4 dollars more an hour for Airbus 320 family flying.
Did you know that America West Mainline Gate agents started a about 7 an hour and topped off at around 12?
They are coming to the US mainline scale.. but they will be at the same level in about 2 years

It was pretty sad..

Old HP CSR's started at 7.65/hr and topped out around 13.00/hr. After Doug took over, he allowed even topped out employees to get raises, so that was welcomed. Our new contract starts us at 8.50/hr and top out at 18.00/hr after 12 years....QUITE an improvement. I've received more raises since our merger, than I did for my entire career at HP. Most of us west employees are estatic to say the least.
Catch a ride on a smile!
 
JBClark
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RE: USAirways Sweetens Deal With Pilots

Wed Dec 06, 2006 4:28 am

Quoting StarCityFlyr (Reply 16):
I don't think I can recall ever seeing anyone in the airline industry holding any employee hostage for their work. Seems to me that if you don't like the pay you receive doing a job, then you have two simple choices: 1. Decide you like the pay you are receiving and continue working or 2. Find another career that pays at a level that you "think" you're qualified to earn.

I did the latter several months ago and couldn't be happier with the results. At the end of the day, your personal happiness and well being is no ones responsibility but your own.

Sorry to sound so blunt but thats reality.

 checkmark 
 
SHUPirate1
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RE: USAirways Sweetens Deal With Pilots

Wed Dec 06, 2006 4:33 am

Quoting Flyboyaz (Reply 25):
Our new contract starts us at 8.50/hr and top out at 18.00/hr after 12 years

You sure it starts you at 8.50 an hour? When I was at my (failed, again) interview two weeks ago, they told me that CSA starting pay was $8.72 an hour (FYI, FSA starting pay was $9.00 an hour)...then again, if they really knew what they were talking about, they would have actually hired this Silver Preferred frequent flier... crying ...never mind that I'd actually PAY $8.72 an hour to work for US Airways...
Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
 
silentbob
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RE: USAirways Sweetens Deal With Pilots

Wed Dec 06, 2006 4:36 am

Quoting Supa7E7 (Reply 21):
Should they all get a further 10%+ raise? That is a technical question, and the answer is definitely not. Ask any HR professsional or labor economist. If it is a moral question, the answer is yes, they deserve whatever makes their heart warm with delight. Uh-oh, the company will probably go BK.

There's nothing wrong with asking for more money. However the threats and constant complaining when they don't get it certainly shows an overabundance of arrogance.
 
StarCityFlyr
Posts: 112
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RE: USAirways Sweetens Deal With Pilots

Wed Dec 06, 2006 4:37 am

Quoting EmSeeEye (Reply 17):
StarCityFlyr welcome to my RR list.

Thank you very much! I'm sincerely flattered.

Have a great day.

 wave 
 
User avatar
Tugger
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RE: USAirways Sweetens Deal With Pilots

Wed Dec 06, 2006 5:32 am

Quoting RiddlePilot215 (Reply 18):
If US salaries were raised America West's standards, the pay increase would be just enough to cover the amount of taxes that would be taken out of their paychecks to pay them exactly what they're making now.

I do not get your comment. Are you saying they would be better off NOT getting a raise? If someone wants to give me $4.00 an hour more I'll take it. Sure I may have to pay a bit extra in taxes but even at 35% it's still only a third of the $4.00 raise, I come out $2.60 an hour ahead.

Quoting Socalfive (Reply 20):
My concern with Parker is now ego with this move on Delta......... this whole thing is a very big chess game and is a long way from being over.

I suspect that part of his motivation is to get the other airlines into the consolidation arena. By bidding on Delta he may force others to get into the same situation he is in which could ultimately help him to compete. And if no one else bids and he acquires Delta then he is still in the exact same boat but with more market power.

All business, if done well, is a chess game.

Tug
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
 
bobnwa
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RE: USAirways Sweetens Deal With Pilots

Wed Dec 06, 2006 5:55 am

Quoting RiddlePilot215 (Reply 18):
If US salaries were raised America West's standards, the pay increase would be just enough to cover the amount of taxes that would be taken out of their paychecks to pay them exactly what they're making now.

Please explain how the math works in your statement. Are you saying if they got a raise, the net raise would be zero? I don't think so!!
 
bobnwa
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RE: USAirways Sweetens Deal With Pilots

Wed Dec 06, 2006 5:58 am

Quoting Positiverate (Reply 24):
All I need to know about Doug Parker is that he walked away from $5 billion in pension liabilities, only to turn around and "raise" $8 billion to go buy Delta. Class act...

What pensions did Parker walk away from?
 
RiddlePilot215
Posts: 280
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RE: USAirways Sweetens Deal With Pilots

Wed Dec 06, 2006 6:27 am

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 19):

Cheap would be locking out the pilots, and hiring a subcontract.

Which he hasn't been too far from doing. The only reason why that won't happen is the same reason why the FAA will never privatize our radar towers....The flying public just won't accept it...Even if they never notice a difference in service.

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 31):
Please explain how the math works in your statement. Are you saying if they got a raise, the net raise would be zero? I don't think so!!

No, the next raise would be something...it would just end up equaling their original base salary under the US rate, before taxes.

They just won't be AS broke.
God is good, all the time. All the time, God is good.
 
fspilot747
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RE: USAirways Sweetens Deal With Pilots

Wed Dec 06, 2006 6:33 am

Quoting Silentbob (Reply 1):
And it's still not enough. Evidently some people won't be happy until they bankrupt the airline yet again.

Perhaps "Silentbob" should stay silent about things he does not know about.

Pilots gave more than anybody when the industry went South. Let's not forget, they voted to concede 50% of their salaries to save their airlines. They deserve to get a return on their concessions. When airlines begin to make money, the first people they should give bonuses and increases in hourly pay + benefits to are the pilots, not the MBA's that collectively decided to slash pay rather than raise ticket prices.

To call them or to imply that they are greedy is ridiculousness.
 
jmc1975
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RE: USAirways Sweetens Deal With Pilots

Wed Dec 06, 2006 6:39 am

Quoting Positiverate (Reply 24):
All I need to know about Doug Parker is that he walked away from $5 billion in pension liabilities, only to turn around and "raise" $8 billion to go buy Delta. Class act...

It has nothing to do with a class act. We're in a different era now. Decisions must be made as to how to make the airline (and the industry as a whole) sustainable and profitable for decades to come. To simply justify crying over spilled milk by shelling out an expense that has ZERO investment value is not looking to the future with wisdom or common sense.
.......
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: USAirways Sweetens Deal With Pilots

Wed Dec 06, 2006 6:59 am

In my book its not a matter of Doug Parker being a good CEO or not. Its whether DL and US are good fits for one another. US and HP were good for each other. They both complemented the others weakness. That merger makes sense, this one doesnt (from a prespective of Route network and simple Geography. There are a lot of things that overlap.

Quoting Jmc1975 (Reply 8):
It never ceases to amaze me how some people here are such experts on Doug Parker.

Well, certain assumptions can be made. 1) Has he done well for HP/US? Of course. 2) Is he greedy?: you bet (but what CEO isnt). 3) Just because he is doing well with that merger does it mean he could pull off another one?: Up for debate. 4) Should what he says be automatically believed?: NO!!!
It is what it is...
 
JBClark
Posts: 23
Joined: Sat Nov 18, 2006 3:12 am

RE: USAirways Sweetens Deal With Pilots

Wed Dec 06, 2006 7:40 am

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 36):
2) Is he greedy?: you bet (but what CEO isnt).

You've just proved Jmc1975's point. How do you know his character? This is exactly the point that was being made about how people are self-proclaimed experts on the psychology of Doug Parker.

Also, what a stereotypically ill-informed thing to say about CEOs. They're all greedy? Did you ever consider that they're just trying to do their jobs? CEOs are hired by boards. Boards are elected by shareholders. Shareholders are in business to make money. So therefore, if the CEO wants to keep his job, he needs to make money for the company. CEOs who lose money on the job usually get fired. Simple as that. Airlines are businesses, not charities. They're not responsible for making their employees feel good about themselves, they're responsible to the ownership to make money.
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: USAirways Sweetens Deal With Pilots

Wed Dec 06, 2006 8:03 am

Quoting FSPilot747 (Reply 34):
Perhaps "Silentbob" should stay silent about things he does not know about.

Silentbob is right. That's why he's speaking.

NS
 
silentbob
Posts: 1539
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2006 1:26 pm

RE: USAirways Sweetens Deal With Pilots

Wed Dec 06, 2006 10:55 am

Quoting FSPilot747 (Reply 34):
When airlines begin to make money, the first people they should give bonuses and increases in hourly pay + benefits to are the pilots, not the MBA's that collectively decided to slash pay rather than raise ticket prices. To call them or to imply that they are greedy is ridiculousness.

If said pilots had waited more than a few hours after the company posted the first profitable quarter in years before they began demanding their share I might have more sympathy.
 
DeltaGuy
Posts: 3965
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2001 5:25 am

RE: USAirways Sweetens Deal With Pilots

Wed Dec 06, 2006 11:02 am

Personally, US needs to worry about their own battles with their first merger before taking on another one.

If I were a fuloughed US pilot, I'd be screaming bloody murder over this- that $8bil pricetag could have easily been used to bring all the furloughees back on property. Take care of your original employees first before trying to screw new ones over.

DeltaGuy
"The cockpit, what is it?" "It's the little room in the front of the plane where the pilot sits, but that's not importan
 
whappeh
Posts: 1058
Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2006 4:47 am

RE: USAirways Sweetens Deal With Pilots

Wed Dec 06, 2006 11:29 am

Quoting DeltaGuy (Reply 40):
If I were a fuloughed US pilot, I'd be screaming bloody murder over this- that $8bil pricetag could have easily been used to bring all the furloughees back on property. Take care of your original employees first before trying to screw new ones over

I could be wrong, but as I gather it all, the $8bil that US ponied up to buy Delta is lent money from creditors/investors. Payments come from money that is being made or in house. To scream/cry bloody murder over an $8billion that a company doesn't even technically have is kind of a pointless thing to do, unless US wants to take out a loan for a few billion to pay pilots, I don't see any point in that statement other then a pointless bash on US.
-Travel now, journey infinitely.
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: USAirways Sweetens Deal With Pilots

Wed Dec 06, 2006 11:38 am

Quoting DeltaGuy (Reply 40):
If I were a fuloughed US pilot, I'd be screaming bloody murder over this- that $8bil pricetag could have easily been used to bring all the furloughees back on property.

Um, and then done what with all of them? Pay you to sit and not fly?

Come on dude, use your brain.

N
 
positiverate
Posts: 1543
Joined: Thu May 05, 2005 10:35 pm

RE: USAirways Sweetens Deal With Pilots

Wed Dec 06, 2006 12:45 pm

Quoting Jmc1975 (Reply 35):
To simply justify crying over spilled milk by shelling out an expense that has ZERO investment value is not looking to the future with wisdom or common sense.

That presumes that meeting your retirement obligations to your employees has no quantifiable impact on your bottom line. I would argue that working to retain the pensions, and working to make good on those earned benefits, has a very real impact on your operation through employee morale and happiness.
 
USPIT10L
Posts: 1868
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 12:24 am

RE: USAirways Sweetens Deal With Pilots

Wed Dec 06, 2006 12:51 pm

Quoting StarCityFlyr (Reply 16):
Seems to me that if you don't like the pay you receive doing a job, then you have two simple choices: 1. Decide you like the pay you are receiving and continue working or 2. Find another career that pays at a level that you "think" you're qualified to earn.

I did the latter several months ago and couldn't be happier with the results. At the end of the day, your personal happiness and well being is no ones responsibility but your own.

Sorry to sound so blunt but thats reality.

I couldn't agree more, although the reason I left DGS last year was because of the treatment, not the pay.

Quoting DeltaGuy (Reply 40):
Personally, US needs to worry about their own battles with their first merger before taking on another one.

Actually, both Parker and Scott Kirby agreed that they would finish the HP/US merger before beginning actual work on US/DL.
It's a Great Day for Hockey!
 
positiverate
Posts: 1543
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RE: USAirways Sweetens Deal With Pilots

Wed Dec 06, 2006 12:55 pm

Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 44):
Actually, both Parker and Scott Kirby agreed that they would finish the HP/US merger before beginning actual work on US/DL.

Funny. The US/HP merger isn't finished, and both Kirby and Parker are in DC tomorrow meeting with DOJ and the Hill to discuss the DL merger. Seems to me they have begun work on it already.
 
whappeh
Posts: 1058
Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2006 4:47 am

RE: USAirways Sweetens Deal With Pilots

Wed Dec 06, 2006 12:59 pm

Quoting Positiverate (Reply 45):
Funny. The US/HP merger isn't finished, and both Kirby and Parker are in DC tomorrow meeting with DOJ and the Hill to discuss the DL merger. Seems to me they have begun work on it already.

That seems to be excessively nit-picky. Look at it like this: You're restoring a car, you're half way done, and the car you want to work on next is on the market.

Would you not go out of your way to buy it and leave it on the back burner while you finish your current project to make sure nobody else gets it?

Of course, you already understood the idea expressed anyway, and were just being cute.
-Travel now, journey infinitely.
 
positiverate
Posts: 1543
Joined: Thu May 05, 2005 10:35 pm

RE: USAirways Sweetens Deal With Pilots

Thu Dec 07, 2006 1:51 am

Quoting Whappeh (Reply 46):
Quoting Positiverate (Reply 45):
Funny. The US/HP merger isn't finished, and both Kirby and Parker are in DC tomorrow meeting with DOJ and the Hill to discuss the DL merger. Seems to me they have begun work on it already.

That seems to be excessively nit-picky. Look at it like this: You're restoring a car, you're half way done, and the car you want to work on next is on the market.

Would you not go out of your way to buy it and leave it on the back burner while you finish your current project to make sure nobody else gets it?

Of course, you already understood the idea expressed anyway, and were just being cute.

The poster stated the following:

Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 44):
Actually, both Parker and Scott Kirby agreed that they would finish the HP/US merger before beginning actual work on US/DL.

Seems to me lobbying regulators and the Hill, meeting creditors, and talking to financiers constitutes "actual work". It's not being "cute" as you put it, but pointing out that they're not being truthful with what they are saying.
 
jmc1975
Posts: 2893
Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2000 10:57 am

RE: USAirways Sweetens Deal With Pilots

Thu Dec 07, 2006 2:48 am

Quoting Positiverate (Reply 47):
It's not being "cute" as you put it, but pointing out that they're not being truthful with what they are saying.

 redflag  You are completely missing the point, or maybe you are just trying to be cute. By doing work on the merger means the integration of the two airlines. Even if US owned DL, they could operate as two completely different comanies for an indefinate period of time.
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