Continental123
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Why No 737s Across The Atlantic?

Tue Dec 05, 2006 7:46 am

I know that CO 752 from EWR to various airports in Europe but have they or any other airline thought about or has flown the 737 transatlantic. Besides PrivatAir, I can think of no other airline.
 
FlyGuyDTW
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RE: Why No 737s Across The Atlantic?

Tue Dec 05, 2006 7:49 am

I heard that CO was thinking about flying the 739 to Ireland in the near future, but you know how rumors are!!!
 
JoKeR
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RE: Why No 737s Across The Atlantic?

Tue Dec 05, 2006 7:53 am

Quoting Continental123 (Thread starter):
Europe but have they or any other airline thought about or has flown the 737 transatlantic

Besides the ones mentioned, none that I'm aware off. I believe the A320 was supposed to have been used on trans-Atlantic services from a North African city to Canada but that's about it.
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SkyvanMan
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RE: Why No 737s Across The Atlantic?

Tue Dec 05, 2006 7:55 am

I'm guessing it is either because there is no demand for a 737 (it doesnt work out economically) or it may have something to do with ETOPS. BTW remember that Delta flies 737's cross country and they seem to be seat limited flights. I've been on soldout flights that the airline says it is a full flight yet there always seems to be a few middle seats empty so I'm guessing that it is likely just becuase it isn't feasible and it is just easier to run a full 757.
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mk777
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RE: Why No 737s Across The Atlantic?

Tue Dec 05, 2006 7:56 am

Isn't LH 412/413 a B737-700 flying from MUC to EWR??
come fly with me
 
GLAGAZ
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RE: Why No 737s Across The Atlantic?

Tue Dec 05, 2006 7:59 am

flyGlobespan have, in recent weeks used a 738W on GLA-SFB and MAN-YYZ, albeit via St Johns. Their GLA-BOS service which starts next year will also use a 738W.

Gaz
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B742
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RE: Why No 737s Across The Atlantic?

Tue Dec 05, 2006 8:03 am

Quoting JoKeR (Reply 2):
Besides the ones mentioned, none that I'm aware off. I believe the A320 was supposed to have been used on trans-Atlantic services from a North African city to Canada but that's about it.

Most likely Tunisair you are thinking of, there was some talk of flying the A319LR to YUL from TUN IIRC!  Smile

Quoting Mk777 (Reply 4):
Isn't LH 412/413 a B737-700 flying from MUC to EWR??

As Continental123 said, PrivatAir fly a few transatlantic routes for LH, KLM and LX (.

Rob!  wave 
 
gigneil
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RE: Why No 737s Across The Atlantic?

Tue Dec 05, 2006 8:07 am

Quoting FlyGuyDTW (Reply 1):
I heard that CO was thinking about flying the 739 to Ireland in the near future, but you know how rumors are!!!

A 739 wouldn't cut it. A 739ER might. They'd have to have one delivered, first.

Quoting Mk777 (Reply 4):
Isn't LH 412/413 a B737-700 flying from MUC to EWR??

No, all LH services by PrivatAir are A319LRs.

PrivatAir does operate BBJ services on behalf of KLM.

NS
 
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ERJ170
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RE: Why No 737s Across The Atlantic?

Tue Dec 05, 2006 8:12 am

A 737-700ER would make it trans-pond due to it's 4000nm range... I could only imagine the cost and it would be at a significant cargo disadvantage..
Aiming High and going far..
 
JoKeR
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RE: Why No 737s Across The Atlantic?

Tue Dec 05, 2006 8:55 am

Quoting B742 (Reply 6):
Most likely Tunisair you are thinking of, there was some talk of flying the A319LR to YUL from TUN IIRC!

Yeah that's the one, thanks B742!
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APFPilot1985
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RE: Why No 737s Across The Atlantic?

Tue Dec 05, 2006 9:06 am

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 7):
No, all LH services by PrivatAir are A319LRs.

Wrong, According to their website those flights are in fact on the 737/bbj.

http://www.privatair.com/airline_services/currentservices.html
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mats
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RE: Why No 737s Across The Atlantic?

Tue Dec 05, 2006 9:13 am

Icelandair has flown the 737 on a number of North Atlantic flights.
 
PSA727
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RE: Why No 737s Across The Atlantic?

Tue Dec 05, 2006 2:31 pm

When I was at EWR yesterday morning, we taxied past a couple of
CO 738s that had "ETOPS" written next to the aircraft number on the
nosegear.

Where would CO fly these aircraft to require ETOPS certification? Their
Micronesia service? Don't those aircraft still say Continental Micronesia?
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Mitchell Gant
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RE: Why No 737s Across The Atlantic?

Tue Dec 05, 2006 2:52 pm

A good portion of CO's EWR-Caribbean network is ETOPS, for example EWR-SJU.
 
PSA727
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RE: Why No 737s Across The Atlantic?

Tue Dec 05, 2006 3:02 pm

Quoting Mitchell Gant (Reply 13):
A good portion of CO's EWR-Caribbean network is ETOPS, for example EWR-SJU.

But why? I understand the "extended over the water" requirements that
let the aircraft fly further out off the Atlantic coastline. But on a EWR to
SXM or SJU flight, what is the farthest away from an airport an aircraft
would be? Aside from the coastline, there's also Bermuda and the Bahamas.
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jbmitt
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RE: Why No 737s Across The Atlantic?

Tue Dec 05, 2006 3:26 pm

I would imagine that most of the 737's operating in Europe, Africa, and parts of Asia have at one time crossed the Atlantic, unless Boeing has a secret EU facility...which I highly doubt.
 
ANITIX87
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RE: Why No 737s Across The Atlantic?

Tue Dec 05, 2006 3:33 pm

Quoting Jbmitt (Reply 15):
I would imagine that most of the 737's operating in Europe, Africa, and parts of Asia have at one time crossed the Atlantic, unless Boeing has a secret EU facility...which I highly doubt.

I doubt those aircraft have to be ETOPS as they are on delivery flights, and are flown smaller distances. IIRC a usual route for a 737 delivered to Europe would be BFI-some airport in the midwest-Gandor-Reykyevik-Scotland-Final destination, but it's always subject to fuel, airport fees, aircraft type, etc. I could be completely wrong about the route, but I'm pretty sure I remember reading that here somewhere.

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A340Spotter
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RE: Why No 737s Across The Atlantic?

Tue Dec 05, 2006 3:36 pm

Quoting PSA727 (Reply 14):
But why? I understand the "extended over the water" requirements that
let the aircraft fly further out off the Atlantic coastline. But on a EWR to
SXM or SJU flight, what is the farthest away from an airport an aircraft
would be? Aside from the coastline, there's also Bermuda and the Bahamas.

One of the reasons the flights have to run as ETOPS segments is due to Bermuda CFR not being available at all hours of the night. Otherwise...

All of the 737NGs have the ETOPS noted on the nosegear doors.

Regards...
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beech19
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RE: Why No 737s Across The Atlantic?

Tue Dec 05, 2006 3:44 pm

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 7):
A 739 wouldn't cut it. A 739ER might. They'd have to have one delivered, first.

Yeah a 739ER could make it both ways. EWR - DUB is 2774nm. 739ER range is 3200nm
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HBJZA
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RE: Why No 737s Across The Atlantic?

Tue Dec 05, 2006 4:04 pm

Who on earth is willing to cross the Atlantic on a 737 ????? BBJ ok but regular 737, no way !
As I can see on A.net, almost everyone is complaining about 757 across the pond. That's why I don't see the point here because both have the same Width but the 73 is shorter......
 
Oykie
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RE: Why No 737s Across The Atlantic?

Tue Dec 05, 2006 4:24 pm

SAS Braathens is rumored to use a 737-700ER across the Atlantic to EWR, but is not allowed to by SAS since it will compete against the SAS Intercontinental flights.
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SX36
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RE: Why No 737s Across The Atlantic?

Tue Dec 05, 2006 4:28 pm

Do you really want to ride in a 737 across the atlantic? That's the real question.
NW, the only way out.....
 
HPAEAA
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RE: Why No 737s Across The Atlantic?

Tue Dec 05, 2006 4:31 pm

well IIRC, AC is sending either a a320 or a319 to London from eastern canada... why couldn't a 737 work just as well... personaly I won't ride the 757 accross, let alone the 737.. but that's me... I guess I just want a j class seat...
Why do I fly???
 
fly2yyz
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RE: Why No 737s Across The Atlantic?

Tue Dec 05, 2006 5:49 pm

Astraeus does fly across the Atlantic. I believe they have their LGW-YDF flights and IIRC they were planning a YYT flight as well.
 
jamman
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RE: Why No 737s Across The Atlantic?

Tue Dec 05, 2006 8:34 pm

Shhhh!!! Don't give the airlines ideas!!!!  Wink

Wasn't westjet thinking of a transatlantic route a while back with 737's? or am I smoking crack again?
Phoning it in from a place with no phones.
 
SK A340
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RE: Why No 737s Across The Atlantic?

Tue Dec 05, 2006 9:36 pm

Quoting OyKIE (Reply 20):
SAS Braathens is rumored to use a 737-700ER across the Atlantic to EWR

Isn't the new ARN-KEF route with SK going to be operated by a 737? Although not a trans Atlantic flight it still crosses the pond (at least a bit...).

/Micke
 
bwaflyer
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RE: Why No 737s Across The Atlantic?

Tue Dec 05, 2006 9:36 pm

Quoting Fly2YYZ (Reply 23):
Astraeus does fly across the Atlantic. I believe they have their LGW-YDF flights and IIRC they were planning a YYT flight as well.

AEU will be restarting YDF (Deer Lake) flights from LGW on bog standard 148 seat 737-700s (no winglets, no extra fuel tanks). They are capacity limited because of the number of life rafts to (I think) about 130. The flights are supposed to operate a triangular flight LGW-YDF-YYT-LGW twice a week from early next year. Flight times are similar to your average UK-Egypt flight. When the flights operated LGW-YDF-LGW, the crew used to operate both sectors as a normal there and back, but now, as there are three sectors, I understand that there will be a 3/4 day layover in St Johns.
 
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par13del
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RE: Why No 737s Across The Atlantic?

Tue Dec 05, 2006 9:53 pm

Quoting HBJZA reply 19
"Who on earth is willing to cross the Atlantic on a 737 ????? BBJ ok but regular 737, no way !
As I can see on A.net, almost everyone is complaining about 757 across the pond. That's why I don't see the point here because both have the same Width but the 73 is shorter......"

Since CO is / has been doing it (B757) for years profitably , I guess this really shows that A.Net members are not really an accurate sampling of the paying public.

Just a thought  Smile
 
bobnwa
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RE: Why No 737s Across The Atlantic?

Tue Dec 05, 2006 10:06 pm

Quoting Par13del (Reply 27):
As I can see on A.net, almost everyone is complaining about 757 across the pond

You must read a different A.net than I do.
 
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RobK
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RE: Why No 737s Across The Atlantic?

Tue Dec 05, 2006 10:30 pm

Quoting ANITIX87 (Reply 16):
I doubt those aircraft have to be ETOPS as they are on delivery flights, and are flown smaller distances. IIRC a usual route for a 737 delivered to Europe would be BFI-some airport in the midwest-Gandor-Reykyevik-Scotland-Final destination, but it's always subject to fuel, airport fees, aircraft type, etc. I could be completely wrong about the route, but I'm pretty sure I remember reading that here somewhere.

Yes, those are not ETOPS flights because they're not carrying pax.

Typical 737 delivery routes across the Pond are :

Ryanair BFI-DUB non-stop
Europa/Futura BFI-YQX/YYT-PMI
SpiceJet/AI Express/Jet Airways BFI-YQX-SNN/BHX/STN-ESB-DEL
EgyptAir BFI-YQX-CAI

R
 
Logos
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RE: Why No 737s Across The Atlantic?

Tue Dec 05, 2006 10:32 pm

Quoting ANITIX87 (Reply 16):
doubt those aircraft have to be ETOPS as they are on delivery flights, and are flown smaller distances. IIRC a usual route for a 737 delivered to Europe would be BFI-some airport in the midwest-Gandor-Reykyevik-Scotland-Final destination, but it's always subject to fuel, airport fees, aircraft type, etc. I could be completely wrong about the route, but I'm pretty sure I remember reading that here somewhere.

Actually a buddy of mine used to be the Boeing rep for Air Berlin and would have to fly those delivery flights. With a load of about 10 people (or less) and a full load of fuel, those birds can have some serious legs. They got particularly favorable winds one time and took a new 738 all the way from BFI to Germany. They didn't make it all the way to Berlin, but I want to say they got to Hamburg.

Cheers,
Dave in Orlando
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irobertson
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RE: Why No 737s Across The Atlantic?

Tue Dec 05, 2006 10:43 pm

A lot of people take Southwest on flights that would be longer than YYT or YDF to SNN, DUB, LHR, or other destinations in the UK. Can't see how it can be any more comfortable just because there's not water below you. A narrowbody aircraft is a narrowbody aircraft inside, and a 319 or 737ER would be fine for a small carrier connecting the eastern regions of North America to the western regions of Europe, as Astraeus, FlyGlobespan, and presumably others currently show, and that Air Canada will demonstrate in the new year.

In fact, YYT-SNN is WELL under 2000nm. An ERJ-195LR could do that, or any number of aircraft. Not sure about the ETOPS business but the point is that medium range aircraft *could* traverse the atlantic to serve between Newfoundland and the British Isles.
 
2travel2know
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RE: Why No 737s Across The Atlantic?

Tue Dec 05, 2006 10:49 pm

If the numbers are there, I wouldn't be surprised to see CO flying B737-700 or 900ER from EWR to SNN, DUB, BFS, EDI, GLA and new destinations like ORK, ABZ and maybe NCL. IMHO, with a good schedule, twice daily service on B737 should be better than once daily B757.

Doesn't the Portuguese airline SATA flies B737 across the Atlantic too? PDL-BOS/PVD/EWR ?
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Sinlock
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RE: Why No 737s Across The Atlantic?

Tue Dec 05, 2006 11:26 pm

Quoting HPAEAA (Reply 22):
why couldn't a 737 work just as well... personaly I won't ride the 757 accross, let alone the 737



Quoting SX36 (Reply 21):
Do you really want to ride in a 737 across the atlantic? That's the real question

I have never understood that argument.

The way I see it, 31 inch pitch in a 17 inch seat is the same nomatter if it's in a 737NG or a 747/A340.
The only airline that has more than 31/32"" in Econ is US in the A330's with 33/34" and those are going soon have more rows added.
 
captainstorck
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RE: Why No 737s Across The Atlantic?

Tue Dec 05, 2006 11:34 pm

Quoting Mats (Reply 11):
Icelandair has flown the 737 on a number of North Atlantic flights.

I have ridden on an Icelandair 737-400 from KEF-LUX. Seemed like a long time to me for a coach class narrow body ride, but it wasn't too bad.
 
PavlovsDog
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RE: Why No 737s Across The Atlantic?

Tue Dec 05, 2006 11:50 pm

Quoting SX36 (Reply 21):
Do you really want to ride in a 737 across the atlantic? That's the real question.

Why not? Until the advent of the 747, DC10 and L1011 we regularly crossed the pond in similarly sized 707s AND DC8s.
 
mk777
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RE: Why No 737s Across The Atlantic?

Wed Dec 06, 2006 12:04 am

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 7):
No, all LH services by PrivatAir are A319LRs.

Well yesterday LH 412/413 was a 737-700!!

Quoting B742 (Reply 6):
As Continental123 said, PrivatAir fly a few transatlantic routes for LH, KLM and LX

Thanks rob, didn't know privatair flies for LH!!
come fly with me
 
awthompson
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RE: Why No 737s Across The Atlantic?

Wed Dec 06, 2006 12:24 am

Quoting Sinlock (Reply 33):
The way I see it, 31 inch pitch in a 17 inch seat is the same nomatter if it's in a 737NG or a 747/A340.
The only airline that has more than 31/32"" in Econ is US in the A330's with 33/34" and those are going soon have more rows added.

No, I see a slight difference. When you want to go for a walk to stretch your legs (important on a long flight due DVT risk), it's more difficult on an aircraft with a single aisle as it is more often than not blocked by a trolley or other persons. Having two aisles on wide bodies with cross overs at the end of each section, this is easier. On 747, 777, A340, etc. I like to stand for a while at the back near the rear doors to stretch my legs etc. Most airlines have quite a bit of space in their wide bodies at the back to do this without getting too much in the way of cabin cew.
 
airtran717
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RE: Why No 737s Across The Atlantic?

Wed Dec 06, 2006 1:59 am

I have to chime in on this one. AirTran has 737-700's and maybe a few 800's by now. I left the company last November, so I'm a little out of the loop these days. Anyway. The plane, as is from the factory, is billed as a 7 hour a/c. Once the winglets were installed, that increased. The point is that we started talking Gatwick and even Heathrow. ETOPS was not necessary as I was told. An ER version was also likewise not necessary to fly from Boston to Gatwick. ... just my two cent's worth here...

717
 
airtran717
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RE: Why No 737s Across The Atlantic?

Wed Dec 06, 2006 2:02 am

Also, our birds had a new config, deleting the aft galleys... you practically could have a dance floor in the back... plenty of room to stretch.

717
 
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RobK
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RE: Why No 737s Across The Atlantic?

Wed Dec 06, 2006 2:21 am

Quoting AirTran717 (Reply 38):
ETOPS was not necessary as I was told. An ER version was also likewise not necessary to fly from Boston to Gatwick.

ETOPS would be necessary unless the plane was planning on flying close to the Canadian coast, Greenland and Iceland, which, from MCO (eg.), wouldn't make London non-stop.

R
 
sk601
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RE: Why No 737s Across The Atlantic?

Wed Dec 06, 2006 2:33 am

I saw a EI B737 a couple of years ago in ORD. Don't know if it was from DUB, ORK or SNN. I was quite surprised to see it.

Don't know if EI still uses the B737 to ORD.
 
wdleiser
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RE: Why No 737s Across The Atlantic?

Wed Dec 06, 2006 3:32 am

Quoting HBJZA (Reply 19):

Seat size is still the same, aisle size still the same, whats the difference between a 747 or a 737 crossing the pond, besides the fact the 737 unloads faster and boards faster.
 
LHStarAlliance
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RE: Why No 737s Across The Atlantic?

Wed Dec 06, 2006 4:07 am

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 7):
No, all LH services by PrivatAir are A319LRs.

No , sometime ago I saw a 737 of Privatair in MUC to EWR
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runway23
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RE: Why No 737s Across The Atlantic?

Wed Dec 06, 2006 4:35 am

Quoting SK601 (Reply 41):
Don't know if EI still uses the B737 to ORD.

For them to fly 737s to ORD they'd need to still have some. Their fleet of 737s has been gone for some time now.
 
747400sp
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RE: Why No 737s Across The Atlantic?

Wed Dec 06, 2006 4:42 am

Quoting Continental123 (Thread starter):
have they or any other airline thought about or has flown the 737 transatlantic.


Please do not insult transatlantic travel like that! The 757 should be the smallest airliner going across the atlantic.
 
sk601
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RE: Why No 737s Across The Atlantic?

Wed Dec 06, 2006 4:44 am

Quoting Runway23 (Reply 45):
Their fleet of 737s has been gone for some time now.

O.K., didn't know that.
 
beech19
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RE: Why No 737s Across The Atlantic?

Wed Dec 06, 2006 5:05 am

Quoting 747400sp (Reply 46):
Please do not insult transatlantic travel like that! The 757 should be the smallest airliner going across the atlantic.

Not trying to bust your bubble but its not like the Atlantic is some sort of Holy Grail. Millions of people cross it each year on thousands of flights... its nothing special...

If an airline could make money flying Saab 340's across the Mediterranean i'm sure they would and someone may, who knows... but that doesn't mean they don't respect the Med because they aren't flying ATR-72's. Thats just ridiculous.
KPAE via KBVY
 
dhhornet
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RE: Why No 737s Across The Atlantic?

Wed Dec 06, 2006 6:07 am

In the real world. Not the Airliners.net one. People don't give a toss what aircraft they are flying on. Most don't even see the outside of the plane when boarding. 757/737s etc - all the same inside. 2/3/4 engines most pax don't even look out of the windows.
So why not on a 737? I would gladly do the pond on a 737/A320. A Bristol Britannia or Cv-880 as well. In my dreams!


I'll do it on one of them:

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