bastew
Posts: 742
Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2006 9:21 pm

BA Cabin Crew To Ballot For Strike

Wed Dec 06, 2006 1:46 am

The BASSA union representing the overwhelming majority of BA cabin crew in the UK are to ballot for industrial action.

Members have been advised ballot forms will be arriving from Dec 18 onwards.

The ballot will close on Jan 12th, the union then needs to provide BA with 7 days notice of striking.

The reasons for the ballot are a general breakdown in relations between BA and the BASSA union over many issues but predominately:

- Pensions.
- Merging of 'old' and 'new' cabin crew contracts.
- the removal of a Purser position from the B747 aircraft.
 
trekster
Posts: 4319
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2003 2:47 am

RE: BA Cabin Crew To Ballot For Strike

Wed Dec 06, 2006 2:20 am

Surprised its taken this long to come onto the forums.

I hope CC take the right move AND DONT STRIKE

A strike affects the whole operation, not just the passengers who bring the money into the airline, but also all teh other areas, customer support, airport workers, etc etc etc.

BASSA in my opinion just want a fight.
One reason i wont join a union is becasue of what happened at my last job while in the GMB. They were asking for strike action nearly every 2 weeks, and did 3 times while i was there. Best paid job i ever had, but no, not good enough for them.
Where does the time go???
 
Bongodog1964
Posts: 3090
Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2006 6:29 am

RE: BA Cabin Crew To Ballot For Strike

Wed Dec 06, 2006 2:38 am

I had noticed that the BA pensions negotiations had gone quiet

The problem is that we were lead to believe for many years in the UK that early retirement was going to be an automatic right. Unfortunately however the money has run out.

The government has totally failed to give good leadership on the matter, and backed down from raising the pension age of Civil Servants just prior to the last elections, for fear of upsetting the Unions.

Whilst I fully realise that raising retirement ages is the way forward; workers are entitled to feel hard done by when they see their taxes paying for civil servants to retire earlier than they can.

I just hope though that the BA unions don't force another strike, as BA have had enough problems not of their own making without this.
 
wrighbrothers
Posts: 1807
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 8:15 am

RE: BA Cabin Crew To Ballot For Strike

Wed Dec 06, 2006 2:43 am

Quoting BAStew (Thread starter):
The BASSA union representing the overwhelming majority of BA cabin crew in the UK are to ballot for industrial action.

Members have been advised ballot forms will be arriving from Dec 18 onwards.

The ballot will close on Jan 12th, the union then needs to provide BA with 7 days notice of striking.

The reasons for the ballot are a general breakdown in relations between BA and the BASSA union over many issues but predominately:

- Pensions.
- Merging of 'old' and 'new' cabin crew contracts.
- the removal of a Purser position from the B747 aircraft.

I'm with Trekster, cabin crew, please don't strike !.
Everyone seems to think about themselves (I know people will say they don't, but let's face it, they do) and like the pilots, the unions can't seem to see what a strike would do to the rest of the company.

So, they are striking over the pension problem: Everyone has to deal with that problem, so striking won't help anything.

Merging of 'old and 'new' cabin crew contracts: Someone explain what the problem with this is ? I'm not too clued up on that bit.

The removal of the purser position from the 747 fleet: You must be kidding, there are pursers on the 767, 777 and all of the S/H fleet, and since the cabin crew won't be losing their jobs, what's the problem ?, other areas have lost loads of jobs over the years, and the cabin/flight crew haven't, perhaps it's only fair that the cabin and flight crew take a bit of the punch too, since it is their costs and 'alowances' that take quiet a bite of the money BA earn.

Wrightbrothers
Always stand up for what is right, even if it means standing alone..
 
LGW
Posts: 4281
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2000 6:07 pm

RE: BA Cabin Crew To Ballot For Strike

Wed Dec 06, 2006 2:46 am

Guess who is left to pick up the pieces when the cabin crew or loaders go on strike  banghead 
 
BA787
Posts: 2381
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2006 9:40 pm

RE: BA Cabin Crew To Ballot For Strike

Wed Dec 06, 2006 2:47 am

Strike really isn't needed at the moment, just a bit sad that relations are so bad
 
theginge
Posts: 491
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 1:53 am

RE: BA Cabin Crew To Ballot For Strike

Wed Dec 06, 2006 2:59 am

I have heard on the wires that they might be balloting for Strike action.

The BA cabin crew union are very strong. For instance I believe that the cabin crew have to ask the Union if they want to go into discretion! Someone correct me if I am wrong.

Some of their terms and conditions, like being paid to sit and have a break in the CAT lounge and such like need kicking into the real world! Also the fact that crew get seem to get accomadation on back to backs paid for by BA.
If I am wrong about any of the above someone correct me!!

I hope they don't strike as it will only put more people off flying BA and send them to their competitors!
 
Iloveboeing
Posts: 339
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2005 11:02 am

RE: BA Cabin Crew To Ballot For Strike

Wed Dec 06, 2006 3:00 am

I hope they get the issues resolved and don't strike. BA is trying to improve its service and its product and upgrade its fleet and a strike is the last thing they need.
 
LGWspeedbird
Posts: 428
Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2005 12:29 am

RE: BA Cabin Crew To Ballot For Strike

Wed Dec 06, 2006 3:30 am

This is all we need after a crazy year I hope that the crew can resolve the differences and PLEASE DO NOT STRIKE!!!!

LGWspeedbird
upcoming flights LHR-LAX-HNL-SFO-LHR
 
Sketty222
Posts: 904
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2006 6:36 am

RE: BA Cabin Crew To Ballot For Strike

Wed Dec 06, 2006 3:51 am

Attention Crew!!!
PLEASE DONT STRIKE
We as a company have been through such a lot in the last couple of years. The last thing we need is a strike.
Other areas of the business have been through all of this before and there was no need for strike action then.
I know we all need to think of ourselves but just think if strike action is taken there may be nothing to come back to  bomb 
There's flying and then there's flying
 
roseflyer
Posts: 9606
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2004 9:34 am

RE: BA Cabin Crew To Ballot For Strike

Wed Dec 06, 2006 4:06 am

Quoting Wrighbrothers (Reply 3):
The removal of the purser position from the 747 fleet: You must be kidding, there are pursers on the 767, 777 and all of the S/H fleet, and since the cabin crew won't be losing their jobs, what's the problem ?,

I believe that there are two purser positions on the 747 with one for the forward and one for the rear of the plane. Other planes in the fleet only have a single purser, but I may be wrong about that.

Quoting BA787 (Reply 5):
Strike really isn't needed at the moment, just a bit sad that relations are so bad

Well employees always want higher wages and companies want lower wages. It's an epic battle, but wages are somewhat flexible. In times when the industry is struggling financially like it did right after the terrorist attacks in the United States, wages will decline, but in times like now when BA is making significant profits, it is time to give back to employees and increase their wages back. The word strike just sets off bells and whistles. They probably won't strike, but it shows where the union is and how dissatisfied they are. Just the mention of strike is bad and the airline will fight to get that word off the table since the threat of a strike can drive away customers. Also words of striking have a big impact on morale, which translates to service. So the mentioning of a strike can have an effect even if there is no chance that the union will strike.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
CO767FA
Posts: 388
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2005 1:45 am

RE: BA Cabin Crew To Ballot For Strike

Wed Dec 06, 2006 4:13 am

Quoting Sketty222 (Reply 9):
Attention Crew!!!
PLEASE DONT STRIKE
We as a company have been through such a lot in the last couple of years. The last thing we need is a strike.

Attention MANAGEMENT!!!
PLEASE DON'T MAKE the CABIN CREW STRIKE
They have been trough such a lot (day-in and day-out) in the last couple of years.
The last thing they need is a good shag from management.
 
Shamrock_747
Posts: 1499
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 3:25 am

RE: BA Cabin Crew To Ballot For Strike

Wed Dec 06, 2006 4:26 am

It is true there are issues that need resolving, however the way BASSA are going about it is childish and overly militant.

The flyer about the strike they have sent out to members completely demonises BA management and exaggerates the issues. They've been posted out in bright red envelopes with "IMPORTANT MESSAGE FROM BASSA!!!" written in huge characters - I'm not able to take something seriously when it's presented in a style that would appeal to 6 year olds!
 
CrossChecked
Posts: 184
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 8:06 am

RE: BA Cabin Crew To Ballot For Strike

Wed Dec 06, 2006 4:33 am

We desperately don't want to strike, who does?! There was initially talk of a strike on the 23rd December which would have completely devastated Christmas travel for millions of people.

However, we realise the obligation that we have to our passengers and have decided to move the strike (if it's held) to a less important date. Yes, it's still going to have an affect on our customers, and for that we're sorry, but this is not a decision that's been taken lightly.

We're fighting for our futures here. Our pensions, our earnings, our prospects for promotion.

I don't want to discuss to much on here at the moment, but I ask you all to stick with us. We, the crew, truly hate the fact that the only way we seem to be able to get through to our employer is to take action that impacts on you, but it's an absolute must at this stage.

Your support - the public's support - is vital. We need you to stand behind us and we need you to come back to us when this action is over.

Thanks.
Cabin crew, doors to manual and cross check.
 
trekster
Posts: 4319
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2003 2:47 am

RE: BA Cabin Crew To Ballot For Strike

Wed Dec 06, 2006 4:40 am

Quoting CrossChecked (Reply 13):
We need you to stand behind us and we need you to come back to us when this action is over.

haha

Think not there. Who wants to go with an airline that again is/will/ HOPEFULLY NOT cause mayhem across the network. Bags all over, stranded passengers, HUGE loss in revenue due to moving pax to other airlines. Chaos in the call centres and check in halls.

All passengers care about is good service, decent crew, and getting to there destination. They dont want troubles with pay and pensions ( that if im right affect every company in the uk at the mo and of which BA are doing well at sorting out) spilling out and affecting them.
Where does the time go???
 
bastew
Posts: 742
Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2006 9:21 pm

RE: BA Cabin Crew To Ballot For Strike

Wed Dec 06, 2006 4:44 am

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 10):
I believe that there are two purser positions on the 747 with one for the forward and one for the rear of the plane. Other planes in the fleet only have a single purser, but I may be wrong about that.

On the jumbo there is 1 'CSD' (cabin service director) and 4 Pursers (1 in First, 1 on upper deck, 1 in CW main deck, 1 in WT/WT+). On the 4 class 777 1 x CSD and 3 x Pursers and on the 767 1 x CSD and 2 x Pursers.

Quoting Theginge (Reply 6):
The BA cabin crew union are very strong. For instance I believe that the cabin crew have to ask the Union if they want to go into discretion! Someone correct me if I am wrong.

Management need permission from BASSA if they wish us to operate outside our negotiated agreements.

This hasn't always been happening of late though. Management have gone to the unions for 'discretion' the unions have turnedthem down but management have gone ahead and done whatever anyway.

Personally, although a BASSA member I am no real fan of either BASSA or BA management. They are actually VERY similar. Both can be quite agressive, bull-ish and ignorant.

Although we are well paid in terms of industry action, a lot of our ways of operating are in the dark ages. We have NO bidding system at all for our flights, trips, days off etc on long-haul. We are only allowed to request two days in the country per month. We are only allowed to request to particular trips a YEAR. We wait for around ten years to get any sort of part time contract.

Quoting Wrighbrothers (Reply 3):
Merging of 'old and 'new' cabin crew contracts: Someone explain what the problem with this is ? I'm not too clued up on that bit.

There is a post '97 contract and a pre '97 contract. The difference in contracts only affects basic pay scales, not allowences, terms and conditions etc. It is a significant difference in the basic salary though, with people on an 'old' contract able to climb many more increments than those on the 'new contract'.

I believe cabin crew are the only workforce within BA where this disparity of two people doing exactly the same job are working on different contracts. I also am lead to believe that EU laws will forbid this in the future.

[Edited 2006-12-05 20:46:48]
 
bennett123
Posts: 7460
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

RE: BA Cabin Crew To Ballot For Strike

Wed Dec 06, 2006 4:58 am

I am not clear that a strike is the answer, are there really no other options.

As for Civil Service Pensions, I was in for 10 years and left because pay was better elsewhere.

To get the salary that I could get in the private sector, would have taken a lifetime in the public.
 
Bongodog1964
Posts: 3090
Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2006 6:29 am

RE: BA Cabin Crew To Ballot For Strike

Wed Dec 06, 2006 5:49 am

Quoting BAStew (Reply 15):
Although we are well paid in terms of industry action, a lot of our ways of operating are in the dark ages. We have NO bidding system at all for our flights, trips, days off etc on long-haul. We are only allowed to request two days in the country per month. We are only allowed to request to particular trips a YEAR. We wait for around ten years to get any sort of part time contract.

If its better elsewhere why not move ?
Surely no sane company lets its staff decide where and with whom they work
Most employees don't have this opportunity
 
bastew
Posts: 742
Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2006 9:21 pm

RE: BA Cabin Crew To Ballot For Strike

Wed Dec 06, 2006 7:02 am

Bogdog, where do you suggest I move to? Easyjet? Ryanair? Yeah right!

The point I was trying to make is that BA are not 'up to speed' when comparing our scheduling/roster flexibility with other large full service carriers.

Although BA management constantly beat the drum with graphs and presentations of how much we earn compared to our peers at other airlines, they are quite happy to gloss over the fact that perhaps we would be happy to negotiate a bit more on the money side if we had some of the flexibility other airlines afford their crews.

I'm not sure if you are crew yourself bogdog, or whom for, but it is actually fairly industry standard for the scheds to have a bidding system for their crews. Or at least a facility for crew to be able to swap trips etc (something else we are not allowed to do at BA even if you have 2 willing participants with two trips of exact same length).
 
Bongodog1964
Posts: 3090
Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2006 6:29 am

RE: BA Cabin Crew To Ballot For Strike

Wed Dec 06, 2006 7:11 am

BAstew

When BA have a cabin crew shortage, I am sure they will change the rostering arrangements; while they have plenty of applicants why bother ?

You admit that by industry standards the pay is good, ever wondered why ?
 
Shamrock_747
Posts: 1499
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 3:25 am

RE: BA Cabin Crew To Ballot For Strike

Wed Dec 06, 2006 7:16 am

I think it's worth noting almost all the points mentioned about flexibility/bidding/trip swaps etc are available to crew at BA's Gatwick Fleet. This does, of course, come at as cost - the pay, terms and conditions are very much industry standard, and therefore significantly less than LHR.
 
Sketty222
Posts: 904
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2006 6:36 am

RE: BA Cabin Crew To Ballot For Strike

Wed Dec 06, 2006 8:08 am

The point I was trying to make is that BA are not 'up to speed' when comparing our scheduling/roster flexibility with other large full service carriers.[/quote]
I work for BA and have friends as crew. I was on a trip a couple of weeks back and a crew colleague of mine swapped/bidded to come to my destination and fly back with me.
I was under the impression all BA crew could bid for what and where they wanted to go. I know its not a given but it would be taken into consideration.
I know that you dont have the vest terms with all of the airlines out there, but you do have a lot better than other airlines crew.
I can also understand that some of the issues you have are very uneasing, as I myself do, but should it really lead to BASSA wanting crew to strike?
There's flying and then there's flying
 
Speedbird2155
Posts: 684
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2005 7:44 am

RE: BA Cabin Crew To Ballot For Strike

Wed Dec 06, 2006 8:13 am

Quoting BAStew (Reply 15):
I believe cabin crew are the only workforce within BA where this disparity of two people doing exactly the same job are working on different contracts. I also am lead to believe that EU laws will forbid this in the future.

Until recently, ground staff also had different contracts, with the new starter rates which had been introduced a few years back. This was only abolished after much discussion with management and those negotiations took a couple years.
 
bastew
Posts: 742
Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2006 9:21 pm

RE: BA Cabin Crew To Ballot For Strike

Wed Dec 06, 2006 8:23 am

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 19):
BAstew

When BA have a cabin crew shortage, I am sure they will change the rostering arrangements; while they have plenty of applicants why bother ?

Bogdog, we currently have 14,000 ish crew and the retirement age is now 65. So i'm, not sure when an opportunity for what you propose will come, but I guess it is an option.....maybe by 2045 all of us exisiting crew will be gone.

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 19):
You admit that by industry standards the pay is good, ever wondered why ?

Yes I have wondered. And the answer is quite simple. Because this is the pay that has been negotiated between BA management and the unions. Plain and simple.

Yes, it is a good pay, but I think most crew are very happy working for BA with their current t&c's and this helps BA achieve the enormous profits they have made recently. And of course, the crews and unions will be very keen to protect the terms and conditions they have fought so hard for.

Do all banks pay their clerks the exact same rate? or do some pay better than others? Do all airlines pay their pilots, or engineers, or ground staff exactly the same salary? Or do they vary.

Whatever the job, whatever the industry there will always be one company that pays the most and one that pays the least.

HOWEVER............pay does not form any part of the industrial ballot and I for one am certainly not complaining about it. So a bit irrelevant to the post really.
 
vv701
Posts: 5781
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 10:54 am

RE: BA Cabin Crew To Ballot For Strike

Thu Dec 07, 2006 1:13 pm

Quoting CrossChecked (Reply 13):
However, we realise the obligation that we have to our passengers and have decided to move the strike (if it's held) to a less important date. Yes, it's still going to have an affect on our customers, and for that we're sorry, but this is not a decision that's been taken lightly.



Quoting CrossChecked (Reply 13):
We're fighting for our futures here. Our pensions, our earnings, our prospects for promotion.

If 'fighting' means strike one outcome is certain. If you strike passengers will go elsewhere. Some will return after the strike. Others will not. So then staff will have to fight for their jobs because there will be fewer of them.

Of course the right to strike is a basic freedom and sometimes needs to be exercised. But striking is the very last resort when every other avenue has been explored and you are convinced not only that your case is water tight but that on balance the situation after the strike is better than it was before the strike. My experience as an ASTMS (as it was then) representative was that this very rarely was the case. The most usual affect of a strike was a reduction in the work force. The worst affect of a strike was no work force at all after the employer closed down.

Sure the employer has responsibilities to its employees. But its employees also have responsibilities to themselves and their families. And regret when it is too late is not an acceptable palliative.

I do not know if the merging of cabin crew contracts could be a striking matter. But I would doubt it.

The loss of a purser position on 747s can only be considered as a striking matter if it is achieved through non-voluntary redundancies.

Pensions in the current climate cannot be a striking matter unless you are a government employee. Then you know that your employer can afford to pay up simply through raising taxation and ensuring that you benefit while your neighbour and those you have a drink with at your local foot the bill. If you work for a commercial company like BA the only solution to the current nationwide pension problem is to try to understand the problems your pension plan is suffering and their causes and negotiate the best possible solution. Here you are in a very fortunate position compared to, for example, someone with a private pension plan. I know someone with such a plan (which, of course, is a money purchase scheme) where the total value of the plan is below the total contributions they have made. That is they would have been better off if they had put their contributions under their mattress instead of their pension plan.

The stated TUC position on pensions is that for every £1 contribution that an employee makes to a pension plan the employer should contribute £2. I think BA staff should try to do a little better than this - perhaps a BA contribution of £2.50. Then BA employees as a group can decide how much they are willing to contribute. Multiply this by 3.5 (1+2.5) and get an independent expert to tell you what this will mean as a pension at various retirement dates. Then negotiate to try to get a bit more. Pay a bit more yourselves and then agree amongst yourselves what retirement age you will accept recognising with a finite pot of money that your contribution levels and your retirement age and your retirement income are totally interdependent.

Recognise that life expectancy will not return to its historic lower levels. Also recognise that stable, low interest rates mean lower mortgage repayments but, if you do not put the money saved into your pension plan, lower pensions as well. Finally recognise that the government is spending the £5 billion plus it took out of pension plans nearly ten years ago when it abolished Advanced Corporation Tax and cannot put it back unless it either cuts public services or raises income tax or VAT.
 
wrighbrothers
Posts: 1807
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 8:15 am

RE: BA Cabin Crew To Ballot For Strike

Sat Dec 09, 2006 2:39 am

Quoting BAStew (Reply 15):
There is a post '97 contract and a pre '97 contract. The difference in contracts only affects basic pay scales, not allowences, terms and conditions etc. It is a significant difference in the basic salary though, with people on an 'old' contract able to climb many more increments than those on the 'new contract'.

Ah, thanks for the explination.

Quoting CrossChecked (Reply 13):
Your support - the public's support - is vital. We need you to stand behind us and we need you to come back to us when this action is over.

Where was your support when all those staff post 9/11 were fired or recieved job cuts, why should they support you now , did you go out and back them up ?

Quoting CO767FA (Reply 11):
Attention MANAGEMENT!!!
PLEASE DON'T MAKE the CABIN CREW STRIKE
They have been trough such a lot (day-in and day-out) in the last couple of years.
The last thing they need is a good shag from management.

Been through a lot ?, such as.....job cuts....no.....pay cuts........not realy......staying in quaility hotels...yes......being unwilling to change and adapt to the avaiation industry when everyone eles has had to.....yes.

Quoting BAStew (Reply 23):
Yes, it is a good pay, but I think most crew are very happy working for BA with their current t&c's and this helps BA achieve the enormous profits they have made recently.

But at the same time take out a big chunk out the proffit so the crew can stay on their high wages and rest in good hotels.

Bottom line, cabin crew, you've to be flexible.
Wrightbrothers
Always stand up for what is right, even if it means standing alone..
 
VonRichtofen
Posts: 4262
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2000 3:10 am

RE: BA Cabin Crew To Ballot For Strike

Sat Dec 09, 2006 6:08 am

Are the pensions under threat? I thought Pensions were protected by UK labour law?

Kris
 
wrighbrothers
Posts: 1807
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 8:15 am

RE: BA Cabin Crew To Ballot For Strike

Sun Dec 10, 2006 10:07 pm

Quoting VonRichtofen (Reply 26):
Are the pensions under threat? I thought Pensions were protected by UK labour law?

Well, no, the pensions themselves are not under threat.
However, the problem is that the crew (and all other employees) will have to work for longer (in terms of age) and contribute more to their pension as the company is planning to decrease their contribution.

Wrightbrothers
Always stand up for what is right, even if it means standing alone..
 
FCAFLYBOY
Posts: 560
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2006 5:03 am

RE: BA Cabin Crew To Ballot For Strike

Sun Dec 10, 2006 10:35 pm

This is a copy of an email I've received from a mate working for
BA.... I'll put it on ONLY because the email is now in a massive circulation
all over the place, please don't flame me for it!  Smile


British Airways Cabin Crew are set to vote overwhelmingly for strike action. This could take place anytime from the end of January through to the end of March but a strike is most likely to happen sometime in February.

British Airways Cabin Crew would like it to be known that they absolutely do not want to go on strike. As Cabin Crew, all we want to do is our very best to look after the travelling public, conveying each and every one of you as comfortably and as safely as we possibly can from A to B. Obviously there are occasions when circumstances conspire against us, both for you the public and us as your crew, but it is often these very circumstances when our passengers appreciate most that they are with a British Airways Cabin Crew. This is borne out by us constantly exceeding every customer service target British Airways have ever set for us and also the clutch of industry awards we win every year - including this year where thanks to our hard work and the
votes of you our customers, we walked away with the Best Cabin Crew award.

However, things are not all rosy with the current management of British Airways. Historically, we have always had a proper business relationship with our management. As with any commercial environment or business scenario, there has to be an appropriate level of give and take on both sides in order for anything to work. However, our new management team have a lot of ‘new brooms’ and wish to make a lot of changes. They have approached these changes by refusing to speak to our representatives, declaring their intention to introduce the changes without discussion and openly stating that “we will walk right through you.”

These changes are both to our working agreements and to our employment contracts, including but not limited to cuts in pay, no pay increases at all after a certain time, cuts in promotion opportunities, less rest between flights, removal of working position choice and BA
ignoring the wording of their own sickness policy when applying it to Cabin Crew. This certainly has health and safety implications.

These changes go beyond simply working harder in a changing commercial and security conscious environment. They will affect our lives outside work, our take home pay and most importantly our family life outside of work. They will also have a knock on effect to you, our passengers.

We are still trying to get our management to talk to us but they are telling us “we have nothing to talk about”. Unfortunately at the moment we are not seen as people - and we are just like every one of you, doing the best job we can to earn a living and go home to our families, we are seen as expendable staff numbers. And whilst on board, we see you going about your business, travelling to see friends or going on holiday with your families, our current management see you simply as pound signs in seats.

At the moment, a strike is the only way
we have of standing up for ourselves and forcing our management to open proper discussions regarding our contracts and our future employment. This can all be avoided with the application of a reasonable attitude and a dose of common sense from British Airways management, but anyone who followed the recent ‘cross wearing’ debacle will know that those qualities seem to be more lacking, the higher up the British Airways management tree you climb.

Should a strike happen and should you be caught up in the chaos it will cause, British Airways Cabin Crew humbly and sincerely apologise to you and ask for your patience and understanding whilst we try to get our managers to speak to us(!)

If you have non-changeable travel plans with British Airways from January to March next year, you can write to our chief executive Willie Walsh at

British Airways plc
Waterside
 
jettygirl
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 10:38 am

RE: BA Cabin Crew To Ballot For Strike

Mon Dec 11, 2006 11:06 am

As BA crew I would like to put my opinion forward.

1. Pensions. Yes many companies have had problems with thier pension schemes lately. However, BA's solution simply isn't viable. Under my current contract I retire at 55. BA want to change this to 65, fair enough BUT they want me to work 10 years longer yet my pension under this new scheme will be less than if I had retired at 55! So I will be paying in for 10 more years and getting less at the end!

2. Salaries. I am on what is known as the new salary. This means my wages are capped at a certain level and will not increase ever! I have roughly 35 years until I retire (If i work until I'm 65). Imagine earning now what people earned 35years ago. Could you manage? Could you pay your current mortgage and bills on a 1970s wage? I don't think so. At the current cost of living, my wage is not high, I can only just manage on it now. With no hope of an increase I really do not know how I will manage in 10+ years.

Contrary to the beliefs of many posters on this site, BA crew do not want to strike. We are being pushed into such drastic action by management who refuse to even discuss our grievences.

In reply to Bongodog, to have some facility to get occasional time off when you want it is very important to a working community who has no fixed working pattern, where every month your days off are different.

Sketty222, I don not know how your friend managed to change their roster to fly with you. It would be difficult on short haul and impossible on long haul.
 
scotron11
Posts: 1181
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2004 4:54 pm

RE: BA Cabin Crew To Ballot For Strike

Mon Dec 11, 2006 1:54 pm

Quoting Jettygirl (Reply 29):

1. Pensions. Yes many companies have had problems with thier pension schemes lately. However, BA's solution simply isn't viable. Under my current contract I retire at 55. BA want to change this to 65, fair enough BUT they want me to work 10 years longer yet my pension under this new scheme will be less than if I had retired at 55! So I will be paying in for 10 more years and getting less at the end!

Welcome to A.net!

That is the huge problem with legacy carriers. Still, consider yourself lucky (if you can call it that) that you don't work for an American carrier that has "dumped" their defined benefit plans in favor of 401K''s. Did'nt BA keep their final salary plan though?
 
TBCITDG
Posts: 851
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2004 5:17 am

RE: BA Cabin Crew To Ballot For Strike

Mon Dec 11, 2006 4:15 pm

Don't you just love it when people who know nothing about the industry or don't even work in the industry like to comment on how things should be run?

 confused 
 
AIR MALTA
Posts: 1733
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2001 6:45 am

RE: BA Cabin Crew To Ballot For Strike

Mon Dec 11, 2006 5:17 pm

Well BA does not need another blow now after 3 summer strikes, terror alerts, nuke jets, catering problems and London bombings.

This airline is slowly getting an AZ or AF reputation.
Next flights : BRU-ZRH-CAI (LX)/ BRU-FCO-TLV (AZ)
 
Bongodog1964
Posts: 3090
Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2006 6:29 am

RE: BA Cabin Crew To Ballot For Strike

Mon Dec 11, 2006 8:01 pm

Quoting TBCITDG (Reply 31):
Don't you just love it when people who know nothing about the industry or don't even work in the industry like to comment on how things should be run?

Why is it that commercial aviation is different to any other industry ?

There can be no other that has such a consistent record of destroying shareholder value, be it government or private.

Some of the comments above absoloutly beggar belief

Quoting FCAFLYBOY (Reply 28):
However, things are not all rosy with the current management of British Airways. Historically, we have always had a proper business relationship with our management. As with any commercial environment or business scenario, there has to be an appropriate level of give and take on both sides in order for anything to work. However, our new management team have a lot of ‘new brooms’ and wish to make a lot of changes

Is this the same BA that had a wildcat strike in support of Gate Gourmet under the "previous Management", plus the other "August" walkouts ?



Quoting Jettygirl (Reply 29):
2. Salaries. I am on what is known as the new salary. This means my wages are capped at a certain level and will not increase ever! I have roughly 35 years until I retire (If i work until I'm 65). Imagine earning now what people earned 35years ago. Could you manage? Could you pay your current mortgage and bills on a 1970s wage? I don't think so. At the current cost of living, my wage is not high, I can only just manage on it now. With no hope of an increase I really do not know how I will manage in 10+ years.

Are you really sure about this ? I cannot see that any employer could insist on a nil increase ever. Cost of living only perhaps, but never nil, as eventually you would drop below the minimum wage, which would be illegal.
In addition why should salaries automatically be elevated up a scale unless the employee has additional responsibilities ?

Quoting Jettygirl (Reply 29):
1. Pensions. Yes many companies have had problems with thier pension schemes lately. However, BA's solution simply isn't viable. Under my current contract I retire at 55. BA want to change this to 65, fair enough BUT they want me to work 10 years longer yet my pension under this new scheme will be less than if I had retired at 55! So I will be paying in for 10 more years and getting less at the end!

I'm afraid this is the way that pensions are going in the UK. Mine certainly has as have the pensions of millions of others; why should BA employees be different ?


The onset of the LCC's has totally changed the economics of airline operations. It is no longer possible for European airlines to operate in a protected environment on short haul. If the LCC's should ever find a way of operating long haul, employee benefits will really be eroded.


As for the tone of the the leaked/released email from the BASSA; its enough to make me want to reach for a sick bag, its all "we don't really want to inconvenience you, but its the nasty management at fault"

Comments eagerly expected on the lines of "we work for an airline so its all different for us" "you don't work in the industry so you can't know anything about it" etc
 
jettygirl
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 10:38 am

RE: BA Cabin Crew To Ballot For Strike

Mon Dec 11, 2006 8:33 pm

Bongodog,

So you are quite happy to accept that you will pay much more money into your pension scheme but get less out? Well more fool you.

And yes I do know that I am right about my wages. I do work for the company I do know what the situation is. I also know that EU law is changing and that BA will not be able to employ people doing exactly the same job on different contracts, which is what they are doing now. No my basic salary will NEVER rise, unless I am able to go for promotion. BA want to take pursers off aircraft which significantly reduces my chance of promotion. I have been with the company for 9 years now and never had the chance to go for promotion, with less senior roles available, I never will.

Management have introduced petty regulations and have been mis managing BA for a long time now. We are over managed and top heavy as a company. Management are only too keen to blame cabin crew when we have problems, and tell us it's our responsability to make cost cuts and give up our benefits to help the company, but are not so keen to do it themselves. Recently our more senior managers were awarded huge bonuses.

cabin crew accept that we are the face of the company and, as I said before we do not want to strike. However this time, we are really being left with no other option.
 
Bongodog1964
Posts: 3090
Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2006 6:29 am

RE: BA Cabin Crew To Ballot For Strike

Mon Dec 11, 2006 8:39 pm

Quoting Jettygirl (Reply 34):
So you are quite happy to accept that you will pay much more money into your pension scheme but get less out? Well more fool you.

Sorry not a fool just a realist who has to pay for his own pension

Quoting Jettygirl (Reply 34):
And yes I do know that I am right about my wages. I do work for the company I do know what the situation is. I also know that EU law is changing and that BA will not be able to employ people doing exactly the same job on different contracts, which is what they are doing now. No my basic salary will NEVER rise

Please don't even try to justify this it cannot possibly be correct, you need to read your contract yourself, instead of relying on your shop steward. As I stated before you would eventually end up below the minimum wage which is illegal.

You mean that your basic salary will only increase by the amount of the annual salary review; once again welcome to the real world.
 
jettygirl
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 10:38 am

RE: BA Cabin Crew To Ballot For Strike

Tue Dec 12, 2006 1:37 am

Once again I'll explain it to you. I have read my contract (have you? You seem to have such a strong opinion about something you have never read)and it is correct. You are obviously a very arrogant and small minded individual who cannot admit to being wrong-very like BA management.

You are a fool Bongodog. You are really saying that we should just accept that pensions are bad and not try to do anything about it. If we just accept bad employment practice and never try to change, conditions will never improve. You are obviously quite happy plodding along in your own little world. Well some of us want to improve things for ourselves and future employees.

All Iam saying is that, under BA's current plans, I will have to work for 10 years longer than stated in my contract, pay into my pension for 10 years longer, then at 65 get less every year than I would if I had retired at 55! If you have accepted that from your employer, he/she must be laughing all the way to the bank! Oh, and by the way, I am paying for my own pension, but on £15 000 per year it's not easy.
 
Sketty222
Posts: 904
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2006 6:36 am

RE: BA Cabin Crew To Ballot For Strike

Tue Dec 12, 2006 2:56 am

Quoting Jettygirl (Reply 36):
You are a fool Bongodog. You are really saying that we should just accept that pensions are bad and not try to do anything about it. If we just accept bad employment practice and never try to change, conditions will never improve. You are obviously quite happy plodding along in your own little world. Well some of us want to improve things for ourselves and future employees.



Quoting Jettygirl (Reply 36):
All Iam saying is that, under BA's current plans, I will have to work for 10 years longer than stated in my contract, pay into my pension for 10 years longer, then at 65 get less every year than I would if I had retired at 55! If you have accepted that from your employer, he/she must be laughing all the way to the bank! Oh, and by the way, I am paying for my own pension, but on ?15 000 per year it's not easy.

Jettygirl, your the fool and very small minded by not considering and listening to other peoples point of view.
With regards to your pension, you can always move it to a private pension with your bank etc and cut your losses!
There's flying and then there's flying
 
bastew
Posts: 742
Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2006 9:21 pm

RE: BA Cabin Crew To Ballot For Strike

Tue Dec 12, 2006 3:00 am

In terms of pay increases I think jettygirl is referring to the increments. There are basically 8 yearly increments from start date (there used to be a lot more and on a different scale).

So, once you have reached 8 years seniority your basic pay is effectively 'capped' unless you go for promotion.

Of course each year though we receive the normal x% pay rise linked to inflation that all other employees receive.

Hope this clears up any confusion!  Smile
 
Bongodog1964
Posts: 3090
Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2006 6:29 am

RE: BA Cabin Crew To Ballot For Strike

Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:06 am

Quoting BAStew (Reply 38):
In terms of pay increases I think jettygirl is referring to the increments. There are basically 8 yearly increments from start date (there used to be a lot more and on a different scale).

So, once you have reached 8 years seniority your basic pay is effectively 'capped' unless you go for promotion.

Of course each year though we receive the normal x% pay rise linked to inflation that all other employees receive.

Do I get an apology now Jettygirl ?

At least I've always understood my terms of employment, and have a grasp of reality
 
bastew
Posts: 742
Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2006 9:21 pm

RE: BA Cabin Crew To Ballot For Strike

Sat Dec 16, 2006 2:38 am

Last night (thursday) after the latest round of BASSA union/management talks 'reached no conclusion' the union chairman gave the legally required 7 days notice of intention to ballot for industrial action.

Today (Friday) BA management expelled the BASSA union from their offices in the Heathrow crew report centre.

Discussions at top level, between Mr Walsh and his equiv at the union are dur to take place next week.

Fingers crossed for a resolution.
 
bastew
Posts: 742
Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2006 9:21 pm

RE: BA Cabin Crew To Ballot For Strike

Sat Dec 16, 2006 3:02 am

Just an update.............

There seems to have been a deterioration in relations between BA management and the union.

Talks have been ongoing in the past week. No resolution with each side blaming each other.

The BASSA union last night (thurs) gave the legally required 7 days notice to BA of a ballot for industrial action.

Today (friday) BA expelled BASSA from their offices in the BA crew centre at heathrow airport. Although quite understandable from the BA standpoint (I believe they provide the offices to BASSA at no charge) it has slightly played into BASSA's hands as now the management are being portayed as 'bullys'.

Willie Walsh is to have direct talks with the union leader next weeks.

Fingers crossed for a resolution.