Curmudgeon
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3rd A380 Delay Known To Insiders In March?

Wed Dec 06, 2006 9:34 pm

According to this Forbes article quoting Le Monde, it is suspected that some executives knew of the true A380 delay as early as last March. 800 EADS employees sold shares after a March 7 meeting in Amsterdam, apparently. Daimler/Chrysler is also now part of the inquiry.
http://www.forbes.com/markets/feeds/afx/2006/12/06/afx3231780.html
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baroque
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RE: 3rd A380 Delay Known To Insiders In March?

Wed Dec 06, 2006 9:38 pm

The best you could say for sellers in such a situation is "not very bright", it was hardly going to go unnoticed. The penalties will exceed any savings in losses. What will Le Flick tell us?
 
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Owleye
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RE: 3rd A380 Delay Known To Insiders In March?

Wed Dec 06, 2006 11:31 pm

Never have believed in shares and shareholders. It's all about money making istead of passion and care for companies. I have not a single share, I work for my money. Shareholders destroy companies...
 
RichardPrice
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RE: 3rd A380 Delay Known To Insiders In March?

Wed Dec 06, 2006 11:39 pm

Quoting from EADS press release:

EADS would like to make the following clarifications about the sale of EADS shares and the exercise of options by Executive Committee members having received them under an allocation programme.

The insider trading rules of EADS, which comply with trading regulations applicable in the Netherlands, France, Germany and Spain, stipulate that such directors may only exercise their stock options within certain specific periods (4 opening periods of 3 weeks each year) and provided they do not have any privileged information and subject to prior approval by the EADS Compliance Officer (authority appointed by the Company’s Board of Directors to guarantee strict compliance with these rules on its behalf).

Such a period was opened from March 8 to 28, 2006. Six directors duly exercised their options during this period following the process described above.

http://www.eads.com/web/lang/en/1024...F00000040950509/9/15/41389159.html

I have also been told that non director level large share holding employees were also restricted to these dates and stipulations.
 
baroque
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RE: 3rd A380 Delay Known To Insiders In March?

Wed Dec 06, 2006 11:44 pm

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 3):
The insider trading rules of EADS, which comply with trading regulations applicable in the Netherlands, France, Germany and Spain, stipulate that such directors may only exercise their stock options within certain specific periods (4 opening periods of 3 weeks each year) and provided they do not have any privileged information and subject to prior approval by the EADS Compliance Officer (authority appointed by the Company's Board of Directors to guarantee strict compliance with these rules on its behalf).

This is certainly the case and the case against the sellers seems by no means open or shut. However, if they knew of the problems, I presume the selling window does not provide an excuse - or are you saying it does Richard?
 
Dougloid
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RE: 3rd A380 Delay Known To Insiders In March?

Wed Dec 06, 2006 11:48 pm

I think anyone with an ounce of sense walking through the factory or sitting in a booth in the bars and cafes around the Toulouse plant where the worker bees hang out and chat could have figured this out.

Factory workers are remarkably well informed about matters that affect their paychecks. It would have been easy enough for any airline rep to see what the course of events might well be.
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
baroque
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RE: 3rd A380 Delay Known To Insiders In March?

Wed Dec 06, 2006 11:50 pm

Quoting Owleye (Reply 2):
Never have believed in shares and shareholders. It's all about money making istead of passion and care for companies. I have not a single share, I work for my money. Shareholders destroy companies...

You obviously need a stiff lecture from those opposed to RLI for Airbus, Owleye. Having shares and shareholders prevents companies from taking silly decisions (like BHP Billiton spending about $A3 billion on Hot Briquetted Iron) and allows shareholder to guide the company into the paths of righteousness and good practice. (Leans over to flick the "heavy irony" button to the OFF position!!)  ashamed 
 
flysherwood
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RE: 3rd A380 Delay Known To Insiders In March?

Thu Dec 07, 2006 2:25 am

Quoting Owleye (Reply 2):
Never have believed in shares and shareholders. It's all about money making istead of passion and care for companies. I have not a single share, I work for my money. Shareholders destroy companies...

Without shareholders, there would be no company!!! How do you think a company is started?
 
leelaw
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RE: 3rd A380 Delay Known To Insiders In March?

Thu Dec 07, 2006 2:46 am

Quoting Baroque (Reply 6):
Quoting Owleye (Reply 2):
Never have believed in shares and shareholders. It's all about money making istead of passion and care for companies. I have not a single share, I work for my money. Shareholders destroy companies...


You obviously need a stiff lecture from those opposed to RLI for Airbus, Owleye. Having shares and shareholders prevents companies from taking silly decisions (like BHP Billiton spending about $A3 billion on Hot Briquetted Iron) and allows shareholder to guide the company into the paths of righteousness and good practice. (Leans over to flick the "heavy irony" button to the OFF position!!)

I think I hear refrains from the "Internationale" playing in the background?  Smile
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
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N328KF
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RE: 3rd A380 Delay Known To Insiders In March?

Thu Dec 07, 2006 2:48 am

Quoting Flysherwood (Reply 7):
Without shareholders, there would be no company!!! How do you think a company is started?

Maybe he only wants to believe in one shareholder: the government.  Wink
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
pygmalion
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RE: 3rd A380 Delay Known To Insiders In March?

Thu Dec 07, 2006 5:39 am

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 3):
stipulate that such directors may only exercise their stock options within certain specific periods (4 opening periods of 3 weeks each year) and provided they do not have any privileged information

[Bolded text my emphasis] This is the part that sends you to jail. Anyone who knew non-public information, and sold or traded shares based on that information... is criminally liable even if done in the option exercise window.
 
RichardPrice
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RE: 3rd A380 Delay Known To Insiders In March?

Thu Dec 07, 2006 5:43 am

Quoting Pygmalion (Reply 10):
[Bolded text my emphasis] This is the part that sends you to jail. Anyone who knew non-public information, and sold or traded shares based on that information... is criminally liable even if done in the option exercise window.

Yes, that is the typical basis for an insider trading suit and if proven true then not only are those shareholders going to be in trouble, but also EADS Compliance Officer, since he would have had to agree to every sale.
 
n1786b
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RE: 3rd A380 Delay Known To Insiders In March?

Thu Dec 07, 2006 6:05 am

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 11):
Yes, that is the typical basis for an insider trading suit and if proven true then not only are those shareholders going to be in trouble, but also EADS Compliance Officer, since he would have had to agree to every sale.

Not to mention Noel.... now does ANYBODY still believe he had no idea what was going on in Toulouse at the time?

-n1786b
 
baroque
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RE: 3rd A380 Delay Known To Insiders In March?

Thu Dec 07, 2006 1:13 pm

Quoting N1786b (Reply 12):
Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 11):
Yes, that is the typical basis for an insider trading suit and if proven true then not only are those shareholders going to be in trouble, but also EADS Compliance Officer, since he would have had to agree to every sale.

Not to mention Noel.... now does ANYBODY still believe he had no idea what was going on in Toulouse at the time?

I know I am unusual (but not I think alone), but actually I don't know. He might, and he might not. The French police will let us know.
(Leans over to swap from Marseillaise back to the Internationale)
 
leelaw
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RE: 3rd A380 Delay Known To Insiders In March?

Thu Dec 07, 2006 3:31 pm

Quoting Baroque (Reply 13):
Leans over to swap from Marseillaise back to the Internationale

 rotfl  Baroque, I always enjoy your dry sense of humor.
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
BoomBoom
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RE: 3rd A380 Delay Known To Insiders In March?

Thu Dec 07, 2006 3:57 pm

Quoting Baroque (Reply 4):
directors may only exercise their stock options within certain specific periods (4 opening periods of 3 weeks each year)

FOUR opening periods of THREE weeks a year?

That's supposed to be restrictive?  Confused
Our eyes are open, our eyes are open--wide, wide, wide...
 
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N328KF
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RE: 3rd A380 Delay Known To Insiders In March?

Thu Dec 07, 2006 4:01 pm

Quoting BoomBoom (Reply 15):
FOUR opening periods of THREE weeks a year?

Probably intended to allow them to trade occasionally but keep them away from quarterly reporting season. I've seen U.S. firms that basically would have their windows in the middle of each quarter.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
baroque
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RE: 3rd A380 Delay Known To Insiders In March?

Thu Dec 07, 2006 8:02 pm

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 14):
Baroque, I always enjoy your dry sense of humor.

You are most welcome, a little humour might help what is a rather serious subject. Noel (and others) could end up with a few years in what the Brits charmingly refer to as the chokey. (I don't know what the current French argot is for it, perhaps someone will tell us.)

Even when matters appear as clear as crystal, insider trading seems to be difficult to prove. In this particular case there is also this strange issue both of the window and the frequency of trades. I don't know if the EADS site still shows the 2005 and 2004 histories, but they were busy little bees even when the EADS prices were up and there were no nasty clouds caught up in the wiring of the A380 - makes it all sound like a WWII balloon barrage, which is what it might well be like.

But anyway, with that history, I am blessed if I know what would constitute an unusual pattern of trades. There is no significance to the wife and children trades I am told - all part and parcel (pun intended) of that lovely practice of remuneration packaging.

So, we can speculate, but basically we need to wait until the French police tell us what they think. Assuming the Napoleonic code does its thing, there will be investigations that will be very thorough - sticks right hand back in front of shirt (or was it the left?).
 
Lumberton
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RE: 3rd A380 Delay Known To Insiders In March?

Thu Dec 07, 2006 8:37 pm

IIRC, there is a similar probe in Germany, as well a shareholders suit.
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".