sq452
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Kids In First/Biz Class...never Understand

Wed Dec 06, 2006 9:55 pm

So I am on Korean Air right now (as we speak thanks in part to free wireless internet on board with soon to be defunct Connexion by Boeing) and its a pretty full flight today in Biz class (Prestige if you want to get technical).

The last passengers to get on board the aircraft was a family of four with 2 very young kids (maybe 2 and 5 years old). They have been somewhat well behaved but I have had this happen a number of times now where some really young kids will fly business class with their parents. More than half the time they are little hellions running up and down the aisle, crying, and spilling juice everywhere.

The thing I dont get is why airlines really have not developed a policy yet. I know some people in F and J class can get annoyed by it (myself included) but what does everyone else feel?

Anybody encounter this and think there is something terribly wrong with it that the airlines should start doing something??? Or is it mostly the parents responsibility to keep the kids under control??? Thoughts, comments suggestions...not saying ban kids from F & J class, but just throwing it out there. i'll be on for a few more hours (still have a ways to go)  

[Edited 2006-12-06 14:10:13]
SIN > CVG > BOS
 
HiJazzey
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RE: Kids In First/Biz Class...never Understand

Wed Dec 06, 2006 10:02 pm

I don't agree with that. Kids have as much right to comfort and premium service as anyone else. And a policy along that line is a slippery slope, the next step would be not allowing people dressed casually. That would be hell for me, because I'll be damned if I'm forced to sit for 11 hours in a suit.
 
jasond
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RE: Kids In First/Biz Class...never Understand

Wed Dec 06, 2006 10:04 pm

Quoting SQ452 (Thread starter):
More than half the time they are little hellions running up and down the aisle, crying, and spilling juice everywhere.

That's not the fault of the kids, its the fault of the parents. Whilst respecting the fact that all passengers should have a peaceful flight for the extra they pay if the kids are unruly then the parents should take responsibility even to the point of being banned to fly in future if they do not. Just to be clear I do have two young children of my own and I take my responsibilities very seriously when traveling with them. They are very behaved anyway so its not a problem but I am concious of the potential impact on others as all parents should be.
 
sr176
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RE: Kids In First/Biz Class...never Understand

Wed Dec 06, 2006 10:06 pm

I don't see a problem at all on this. It is true that you will see kidy flying premium a lot. I don't see a problem at all on this. I even once got upgraded with my wife and son (below 1 year old at that time) on LH between FRA and ICN from Y to C.
 
Rotate
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RE: Kids In First/Biz Class...never Understand

Wed Dec 06, 2006 10:06 pm

Quoting SQ452 (Thread starter):
The thing I dont get is why airlines really have not developed a policy yet. I know some people in F and J class can get annoyed by it (myself included).

Get over it. You also have been a kid at some stage, or perhaps you will also have a kid in the future and want to fly business.
Just flew with my daughter and wife F-class from ZRH to DXB on EK, everything went smooth. But sometimes it doesnt .... - its just pure luck.
Put the headset on and listen to some music or watch a movie ... , after 10 mins or so you wont hear the kid anymore ...

Robin
ABC
 
ozglobal
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RE: Kids In First/Biz Class...never Understand

Wed Dec 06, 2006 10:06 pm

Had a flight from hell from CDG to SIN on AF in J with parents with two young kids. Parents were passive and left the other passengers and crew to babysit. Kids, naturally became over tired after about 90mins and whined, wimpered, screamed and cried for the next 10hrs or so. Even the Asian passengers who ar normally very low key got up exasperated and 'shhh'ed the family, to no avail. The injustice is we all payed 5x Y class in order to sleep so as to work on arrival. Not the kids' fault really, but not just, not good business and shouldn't happen.

If you sell these tickets to children provide a 'creche' area and enforce a noise policy. Otherwise, only over 10yr-olds in J/F.
When all's said and done, there'll be more said than done.
 
sq452
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RE: Kids In First/Biz Class...never Understand

Wed Dec 06, 2006 10:07 pm

Quoting HiJazzey (Reply 1):
That would be hell for me, because I'll be damned if I'm forced to sit for 11 hours in a suit.

Me too, many times I look like a slob because I want to be comfortable when flying a red eye flight...

Quoting HiJazzey (Reply 1):
I don't agree with that. Kids have as much right to comfort and premium service as anyone else. And a policy along that line is a slippery slope,

Good point. I'm just tossing this topic out there, I think most responsibility lies on the parents (just as it does anywhere else) to keep the kids under control...
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dutchjet
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RE: Kids In First/Biz Class...never Understand

Wed Dec 06, 2006 10:11 pm

This is a difficult topic and there is probably not a correct answer.....many pax fly F or J for quiet and comfort...and plan to work or sleep during the flight and a few noisy children can upset those plans. On the other hand, there are lots of well behaved children who cause no bother at all.

Bottom line is that airlines are in the business to make money.....if an airline can sell a F or J class ticket, they will regardless of whether the passenger is 6 or 66. Having a rule such as ""no one under 12 is permitted to fly F or J"" would be nearly impossibile to enforce, could be illegal, and would piss off all of the parents that could not sit up front because of this rule.

Two suggestions:

1. Parents should supervise their children better - an airplane cabin (F J or Y) is not a playground and F/As are not baby sitters. Its the parents responsibility to take care and supervise their children. If unruly children are on board, say something to the crew and/or the parent.

2. Since most airlines offer pre-assigned seating and most passengers (especially those in F and J) get their seat assignments well before a flight's departure.....I never understood why airlines dont atleast try to sit famlies with children together in one zone of a cabin....one family travelling with little ones is bound to be more tolerant of a crying 3 year old than a businessman or businesswoman trying to get work done onboard.
 
Rotate
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RE: Kids In First/Biz Class...never Understand

Wed Dec 06, 2006 10:11 pm

Quoting SQ452 (Reply 6):
Good point. I'm just tossing this topic out there, I think most responsibility lies on the parents (just as it does anywhere else) to keep the kids under control...

 checkmark  checkmark  checkmark 


Robin
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TACAA320
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RE: Kids In First/Biz Class...never Understand

Wed Dec 06, 2006 10:11 pm

Quoting HiJazzey (Reply 1):
I don't agree with that. Kids have as much right to comfort and premium service as anyone else.

I totally agree with you. Some kind of restrictions in this regard can violate Constitutional Rights.

If their parents pays for such kind of services, an airline can deny it based on the age of the beneficiaries.
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
cgnnrw
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RE: Kids In First/Biz Class...never Understand

Wed Dec 06, 2006 10:15 pm

Well why should econ passengers have to put up unruly kids? I sometimes get annoyed at the attitude of biz/first passengers have that all econ passengers are flying on "dirt-cheap" fares and therefore aren't entitled to a relaxing flight.
 stirthepot 

If a kid is annoying you then either speak to the parents in a polite way or if you don't have the guts to do that then go to a crew member and ask if they can speak to the parents.
A330 man.
 
initref
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RE: Kids In First/Biz Class...never Understand

Wed Dec 06, 2006 10:16 pm

I've seen and heard more badly behaved adults in F/J than kids.
 
sq452
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RE: Kids In First/Biz Class...never Understand

Wed Dec 06, 2006 10:18 pm

Not "kid bashing" by any means, im sure one day I could even be in the same shoes....but it seems like everyone thinks that it really is the parents responsibility to look after the kids.

I think what I'd also wonder is why sometimes parents would fork out so much for the kids to sit in F or J. I can understand the parents want the comfort but, sometimes it could even be cheaper to pay for econ and have a family friend or nanny look after them, would probably save a lot of $$$
SIN > CVG > BOS
 
Rotate
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RE: Kids In First/Biz Class...never Understand

Wed Dec 06, 2006 10:23 pm

Quoting SQ452 (Reply 12):
I can understand the parents want the comfort but, sometimes it could even be cheaper to pay for econ and have a family friend or nanny look after them, would probably save a lot of $$$

Depends on the age of the kids ... , I would have very bad feelings sitting in F and puting my 5 years aged Kid into Eco. Wouldnt have a prob though to put my 14 year old son into Eco while we a fly F (HEHEHEHE) .

Robin
ABC
 
hiflyer
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RE: Kids In First/Biz Class...never Understand

Wed Dec 06, 2006 10:25 pm

Face it...folks with money to burn do not care about you..it's all about their comfort. Airlines need those premium fares...kids and all...so they will not restrict it. End result? Get a good pair of noise canceling headphones and relax....but make sure they are a good pair....ones that can take a kid out a row away..grin!
 
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Zkpilot
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RE: Kids In First/Biz Class...never Understand

Wed Dec 06, 2006 10:27 pm

Quoting Cgnnrw (Reply 10):
Well why should econ passengers have to put up unruly kids? I sometimes get annoyed at the attitude of biz/first passengers have that all econ passengers are flying on "dirt-cheap" fares and therefore aren't entitled to a relaxing flight.

If a kid is annoying you then either speak to the parents in a polite way or if you don't have the guts to do that then go to a crew member and ask if they can speak to the parents.

I know what you mean, but you are missing the point...
The whole point of pax paying a premium to fly biz/first is that they want to have a more comfortable flight than they would get if they were flying in economy. To get this they fork out $$$ to have more comfort so they can work or sleep. What they don't want is some kid running around making noise etc.


Now it would be pretty hard and perhaps mean for airlines to ban kids from flying biz/first. What the airlines can do however is charge full adult fares rather than child fares for biz/first. Sure there will always be people around that simply don't care about the cost, but for most it would be a disincentive to flying along with the kids in biz/first.
I would hate to be paying $7000 for a ticket compared to say $2000 for an economy ticket only to be sitting next to some kid who is making lots of noise, throwing up, making a mess etc etc.
Yes we all usually end up with kids and yes we all were kids at one stage, but I certainly never flew in biz/first when I was a kid.
I'm sure there are plenty of well behaved kids out there, but in this day and age a lot of kids are spoiled brats with no discipline.

 Smile
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airways45
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RE: Kids In First/Biz Class...never Understand

Wed Dec 06, 2006 10:29 pm

It seems that I am one of the few to agree with the original poster. I believe that children under a certain age should NOT be allowed in First or Business.

I am also fully aware that I'm in a minority here. Those most vocal are either those that never fly in premium cabins but hope for an upgrade or, those that get upgraded all of the time. My colleagues who PAY for the seat in F or C often agree with my point, especially on night flights.

I've noticed a few things on my many travels in F or C. Firstly, children are often on upgrades. I find this regularly in the US as the parent might be Platinum (like I am) and either get auto upgrades or, use coupons etc. The irony with this is to be platinum (like I am) and get this benefit the father (or mother) has needed to fly on business a lot and so should also appreciate the quiet cabin.

I've been on many flights with well-behaved children. However, children from certain parts of the world seem to be able to cause a riot and their parents seem to completely be able to black out their kids running up and down the aisle.

When I'm paying $6000 for a ticket I do this for a few reasons. Firstly to either work, sleep or relax. The point is that I'm not doing this to have a child crying. If I want that I'll sit in row 56 in the middle seat. If I fly economy I can expect that. I now expect children in the premium cabins but I totally believe it is arrogant of parents to take their children in to the cabin.

My suggestion would be to stop upgrades of children. Though I would like to stop children (especially babies) altogether I except this would never happen.

However, to find a whole family of airline employees or upgrades which is often where the kids come from could easily be stopped. The perks are fine for the parents but not the kids. So, either downgrade yourself to economy, or, put the kids in economy.

Another point not raised here is children in the business lounge at the airport. These are meant to be a quiet haven away from the crowd. Often the airport gate is quieter. So, once again I wouldn't have children in there.

Some of the worst flights I've had in premium cabins are to and from the Middle East where royal princes or princesses are running around in First Class.

Remember, money can't buy you manners, good behaviour or tact.

Airways45
 
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RE: Kids In First/Biz Class...never Understand

Wed Dec 06, 2006 10:29 pm

Quoting SQ452 (Reply 12):
I can understand the parents want the comfort but, sometimes it could even be cheaper to pay for econ and have a family friend or nanny look after them, would probably save a lot of $$$

If they are flying F/J, they just want to take care of their kids by them self. They simply don't want to save money but get some extra comfort.
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
sq452
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RE: Kids In First/Biz Class...never Understand

Wed Dec 06, 2006 10:43 pm

Man this is a good discussion...helps the flight go by quick.

I understand where everyone is coming from which I think is good (to keep perspective). I hate isbehaving kids in F&J class, in a perfect world they may not fly in F or J but the world is far from perfect...

Bottom line, parents: keep your kids in line if you sit in F or J (or Y even).

And I so just burned my face off with the hot towel (which was REALLY HOT)...its like play by play from 33,000 feet.  eek 
SIN > CVG > BOS
 
desiguy2447
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RE: Kids In First/Biz Class...never Understand

Wed Dec 06, 2006 10:46 pm

Airlines cannot really do anything about young kids flying in First or Business class with there parents. If any airline was to impose an age limit lawyers would be having a field day sueing the airline on behalf of the family or families who's kids were denied a ticket in either of these classes.

While on this subject I had friend who a few years back flew Business class in Delta with his young kid, and when the kid started crying, and wouldn't stop he moved to Economy class and took a seat till the kid fell back sleep then moved back to Business class.
 
LH526
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RE: Kids In First/Biz Class...never Understand

Wed Dec 06, 2006 11:01 pm

Better bring a well situated family on board with smart kids who, at age 6, know to behave better than most 30 year olds.
What I can't stand are those poeple who get send arund the globe by their comp. and care a shit how they behave or look on C. wearing Sneakers and t-shirts.

Mario
LH526
Trittst im Morgenrot daher, seh ich dich im Strahlenmeer ...
 
mptpa
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RE: Kids In First/Biz Class...never Understand

Wed Dec 06, 2006 11:11 pm

Quoting Jasond (Reply 2):
That's not the fault of the kids, its the fault of the parents. Whilst respecting the fact that all passengers should have a peaceful flight for the extra they pay if the kids are unruly then the parents should take responsibility even to the point of being banned to fly in future if they do not. Just to be clear I do have two young children of my own and I take my responsibilities very seriously when traveling with them. They are very behaved anyway so its not a problem but I am concious of the potential impact on others as all parents should be.

I agree. Spot on. It is the parents responsibility. Also there have been more unruly adults than kids!! I have two boys and we have gone on trips in F and C, and no problem whatsoever. They are entertained (IFE), we bring them their games, coloring book, their toys (2 per kid max), and after a couple of hours they are tired and sleep. They have as much right to be there as any adult; we are paying the same for the seat.

I do agree that they should not be running around and making mess and noise. It is the same whether they are in F, C or Y. It is the basic upbringing of the kids, whether they are in an aircraft, restaurant or public places.

Any airlines bans the kids, they will be sued, and will lose the business from the parents too: one will be me for sure.
 
TACAA320
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RE: Kids In First/Biz Class...never Understand

Wed Dec 06, 2006 11:41 pm

Quoting Airways45 (Reply 16):

Come on. You're an "Aviation Manager". You fly for free  Wink
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
jamesvf84
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RE: Kids In First/Biz Class...never Understand

Wed Dec 06, 2006 11:45 pm

A nice but difficult topic!

As mentioned before it is the parents responsibility, why don't airlines adopt a different point of view: when an adult passenger is under the influence of alcohol or his "misbehaving" in any manner  drunk  kiss  , the airline threatens to land at a secondary airport, off load the passenger in question and the fine them.

Why couldn't something, obviously less dramatic, be put in place for this kind of situation. I have nothing against children, I have seen children in C and Y class and most of the time the children were fine, only once I saw children in F and they were real angels: they were "seen but not heard" !!!

For a child a longhaul flight is going to be boring at sometime so getting up, stretching their legs walking even at a quick pace down the aisle is fine......it is the yelling and misbehaving that I find difficult to swallow. I think it is even more difficult for the F/As as what can or are allowed to say to the parents?

So why isn't a warning given to the parents, if the warning is not respected the offload them or fine them. Is one arrogant family better having as customers than 20 people flying on business or leisure?
 
antonovman
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RE: Kids In First/Biz Class...never Understand

Wed Dec 06, 2006 11:50 pm

I worked for Pan Am and we had a rule, no under 12 year olds in First, but allowed in Clipper (business) though
 
EWRCabincrew
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RE: Kids In First/Biz Class...never Understand

Thu Dec 07, 2006 12:21 am

Quoting Jasond (Reply 2):
That's not the fault of the kids, its the fault of the parents.

BINGO!!!

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 7):
1. Parents should supervise their children better - an airplane cabin (F J or Y) is not a playground and F/As are not baby sitters. Its the parents responsibility to take care and supervise their children. If unruly children are on board, say something to the crew and/or the parent.

Hit the nail on the head there. Talk to the crew. I have no problem talking to the parents of unruly parents and getting my point across.

Quoting Airways45 (Reply 16):
I believe that children under a certain age should NOT be allowed in First or Business.



Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 7):
Bottom line is that airlines are in the business to make money.....if an airline can sell a F or J class ticket, they will regardless of whether the passenger is 6 or 66.
You can't cure stupid
 
Bongodog1964
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RE: Kids In First/Biz Class...never Understand

Thu Dec 07, 2006 12:31 am

My wife and I are just thinking about our next holiday, we will for the 1st time be flying business class along with our daughter who is nearly 4. her behaviour is in our opinion acceptable to take on an aeroplane; we would however consider that the same standard of behaviour is required for any section of the aircraft.
After all in economy you have far less chance of escaping from unruly behaviour than in business.

With regard to the idea of banning children from business, what about banning obnoxious and/or drunk adults ? where do we draw the line ?

I do think its ironic though that a few posters have mentioned what they expect after spending "their money" on a business class seat; I do wonder what proportion of business class travel is employer paid (or flyer miles accumulate via employer) and what proportion is personally paid for.


On my last long haul flight I had the passenegr from hell sitting behind me, who objected to me reclining my seat, and then proceeded to keep thumping the seat to the point where I had to call a stewardess to mediate, I would have had less trouble from a child.

In all I would like to think that parents would take responsibility for the actions of their children, and adults take responsibility for theirs.
 
EWRCabincrew
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RE: Kids In First/Biz Class...never Understand

Thu Dec 07, 2006 12:38 am

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 26):
In all I would like to think that parents would take responsibility for the actions of their children, and adults take responsibility for theirs.


That is a nice sentiment. You'd be surprised how much this doesn't happen. On the flip side to what i said a post ago, I also tell parents that their childern are well behaved and I thank them for the job that they have done well.

You get unruly kids in all cabins of service. Bad parenting has no barriers.
You can't cure stupid
 
kmh1956
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RE: Kids In First/Biz Class...never Understand

Thu Dec 07, 2006 12:40 am

I have flown in both First and Economy....my very first flight was in First on Pan Am when I was 6 and my sister 3. My daughter flew in First with me when she was 2. The tickets were paid for. I have also been upgraded to First, while travelling with my daughter at a very young age. In all occasions, we were much better behaved than the so-called 'adults' with whom we were travelling.
I have never seen a child treat cabin crew like their personal slaves, or hit on the flight attendants or get totally wasted and obnoxious. Granted, some kids are unruly and their parents need a good smack in the ass for allowing it. However, most of the kids I have flown with (in all classes) have been very well-behaved.
I do not believe for one moment that first class should be restricted to those who, because they have paid premium prices for a ticket, have an over-inflated sense of their own self-importance. I don't fly F frequently, as I cannot afford to do so, but if I choose to treat myself and my child to F class seating I certainly don't expect to be looked down upon by other F class passengers.
'Somebody tell me why I'm on my own if there's a soulmate for everyone' :Natasha Bedingfield
 
PEK18R36L
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RE: Kids In First/Biz Class...never Understand

Thu Dec 07, 2006 12:41 am

Quoting OzGlobal (Reply 5):
Otherwise, only over 10yr-olds in J/F.

I'm 2 meters tall and weigh 130 kilos. There is NO way I'm going to sit in economy, and there is NO way I'm going to banish my wife and disciplined, quiet, well-behaved and well-travelled 5-year-old into economy while I sit up front.

Try it. You'll lose my business and that of legions of other PAYING (not upgrading) premium-flying parents.

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 7):
1. Parents should supervise their children better - an airplane cabin (F J or Y) is not a playground and F/As are not baby sitters. Its the parents responsibility to take care and supervise their children. If unruly children are on board, say something to the crew and/or the parent.

Amen. The issue is not kids in F/J. It's inconsiderate - if not irresponsible - parents.

Quoting InitRef (Reply 11):
I've seen and heard more badly behaved adults in F/J than kids.

When I hear a child cry in pain while an aircraft is descending and he can't equalize his ears, I'm not irritated, I'm concerned.

But the whines of the rude, inconsiderate, entitled, pampered adults I hear in the front of the plane piss me off. There far more overaged spoiled brats in the air than underaged.

And some of them walk into the business class cabin, spot my 5 year old, grimace visibly, and go look for the purser to get reseated - and this is when he's seated between my wife and I, shoes off, headphones on, and a book open in his lap. You all know who you are.

Quoting SQ452 (Reply 12):
I think what I'd also wonder is why sometimes parents would fork out so much for the kids to sit in F or J. I can understand the parents want the comfort but, sometimes it could even be cheaper to pay for econ and have a family friend or nanny look after them, would probably save a lot of $$$

Until my kid is 10 or 12, he's flying next to my wife and I. When he can manage flying on his own - and that means handle himself intelligently in the event of an emergency or evacuation - he can plotz in the back on his own.

The total cost of schlepping a nanny on a 2-4 week trip is far greater than the extra cash for J. Trust me. I've tried.

Quoting Hiflyer (Reply 14):
Face it...folks with money to burn do not care about you..it's all about their comfort.

Yeah, all of us who can afford to put our kids with us in J are arrogant, inconsiderate idiots.

I find your tone flippant and insulting. My wife and I have trained our quite young son that if he kicks a seat in front of him or otherwise disturbs the FAs or other passengers, he's not going to like the results. We also reward him with praise and priveledges when he behaves well.

And we are by no means alone.

Quoting Airways45 (Reply 16):
I believe that children under a certain age should NOT be allowed in First or Business.

Fortunately most airline executives recognize more clearly than you that not all children - or parents - deserve to be punished for the bad behavior of others.

Quoting Airways45 (Reply 16):
Those most vocal are either those that never fly in premium cabins but hope for an upgrade or, those that get upgraded all of the time. My colleagues who PAY for the seat in F or C often agree with my point, especially on night flights.

I'm pretty vocal, and I pay my hard-earned cash for my F & C seat, and I disagree with you utterly.

Quoting SQ452 (Reply 18):
Bottom line, parents: keep your kids in line if you sit in F or J (or Y even).

If you allow your child out of the house, much less take him on an aircraft, you teach him/her that there are standards of public behavior even they are expected to maintain.

Quoting LH526 (Reply 20):
Better bring a well situated family on board with smart kids who, at age 6, know to behave better than most 30 year olds.

THANK YOU.

And - airlines - add to your safety video warnings against children using the aircraft as playgrounds. A gentle word is often more than enough to remind parents of their obligations.

On the subject of airlines, SQ and NH provide children in premium classes with a bag of toys and activities when they board, and provide a range of other niceties - including a family-oriented IFE program - that does much to keep kids calm inflight.

UA, on the other hand, does bubkis.

David
In China, everything is possible - but nothing is easy.
 
naritaflyer
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RE: Kids In First/Biz Class...never Understand

Thu Dec 07, 2006 12:42 am

Quoting SQ452 (Reply 6):
Me too, many times I look like a slob because I want to be comfortable when flying a red eye flight...

You don't need to look like a slob to be comfortable.
 
1stfl94
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RE: Kids In First/Biz Class...never Understand

Thu Dec 07, 2006 12:43 am

At the end of the day banning under 12s from Business makes no economic sense because the parents who can afford to fly their kids in business will just take their business elsewhere and probably use their word of mouth against the airline. It's parents responsibility though to make sure that their kids are well behaved and they should accept any consequences.

I do know that some airlines only seat families in certain areas of business, i.e most 747 operators only put families on the lower deck,
 
BA1985
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RE: Kids In First/Biz Class...never Understand

Thu Dec 07, 2006 12:47 am

Chill out and watch tv
 
kdeg00
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RE: Kids In First/Biz Class...never Understand

Thu Dec 07, 2006 12:49 am

Quoting InitRef (Reply 11):
I've seen and heard more badly behaved adults in F/J than kids.

My sentiments exactly! On nearly every trip I take there is at least one "adult" who can't put/keep his seatbelt on, can't say please or thank you, plays his audio so that the rest of the cabin can hear, etc...And then some bozo will make a comment to me about how he "hopes my daughter knows how to behave on a plane." Frankly, most kids make better passengers than many adults so long as their parents remember that they're kids and plan appropriately. My daughter is 6 (and closing in on UA 1K status) and has had to ask adults to stop kicking her seat on transpac flights on the upper deck.
 
COERJ145
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RE: Kids In First/Biz Class...never Understand

Thu Dec 07, 2006 12:53 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 7):
Since most airlines offer pre-assigned seating and most passengers (especially those in F and J) get their seat assignments well before a flight's departure.....I never understood why airlines dont atleast try to sit famlies with children together in one zone of a cabin....one family travelling with little ones is bound to be more tolerant of a crying 3 year old than a businessman or businesswoman trying to get work done onboard.

They do, You'll find them mostly in bulkheads.
 
EWRCabincrew
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RE: Kids In First/Biz Class...never Understand

Thu Dec 07, 2006 12:54 am

Quoting BA1985 (Reply 32):
Chill out and watch tv

Sometimes it's not that simple.
You can't cure stupid
 
Bongodog1964
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RE: Kids In First/Biz Class...never Understand

Thu Dec 07, 2006 12:55 am

Quoting SQ452 (Reply 12):
I think what I'd also wonder is why sometimes parents would fork out so much for the kids to sit in F or J. I can understand the parents want the comfort but, sometimes it could even be cheaper to pay for econ and have a family friend or nanny look after them, would probably save a lot of $$$

Having just read the above is it possible to vote to give someone a negative respect rating ?

I might be able to afford to travel J class but I certainly can't afford a nanny, and who would be arrogant enough to declare that they were too good for economy but its alright for a family friend

Sorry I just realised you were having a laugh with this post weren't you ?
 
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scbriml
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RE: Kids In First/Biz Class...never Understand

Thu Dec 07, 2006 12:59 am

I think it's been a few weeks since we last discussed "kids in premium cabins". None of the arguments seem to have moved on.

Good luck trying to persuade any airline that it should turn away a "family's worth" of F or J revenue just because you don't want to hear or see kids in your cabin.

Last time I checked, no airline ticket gave any guarantees that you wouldn't be sat next to a screaming tot for the duration of the flight. Paying more for F or J only gets you a better seat, more space and better service. Period. No guarantees about library levels of peace and quiet.

Get over yourselves.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
 
USPIT10L
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RE: Kids In First/Biz Class...never Understand

Thu Dec 07, 2006 1:07 am

Quoting Airways45 (Reply 16):
It seems that I am one of the few to agree with the original poster. I believe that children under a certain age should NOT be allowed in First or Business.

I agree.

Quoting Antonovman (Reply 24):
I worked for Pan Am and we had a rule, no under 12 year olds in First, but allowed in Clipper (business) though

I believe that's the same rule Delta has. IINM, every other major US carrier has the same rule. No one in first class under the age of 12. Where do these European/international carriers get off?! I ache for the cabin cleaners of these carriers. I remember dealing with Cheerios, baby food, massive crums, and all sorts of crap from rows where little kids were sitting. The parents clearly were more interested in their own comfort than in controlling the kids. I remember more than a few F/As actually cleaning the stuff up for us and saying the same thing, since it was a flight they'd just worked. I always appreciated and thanked F/As that did that. It showed we really were on the same side.
It's a Great Day for Hockey!
 
SkyexRamper
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RE: Kids In First/Biz Class...never Understand

Thu Dec 07, 2006 1:09 am

Quoting SQ452 (Thread starter):
The thing I dont get is why airlines really have not developed a policy yet. I know some people in F and J class can get annoyed by it (myself included) but what does everyone else feel?

So only us "lesser" people in coach should be annoyed by people's kids. Just because you're in F or J doesn't make you any better than the rest of us...you just paid more for your ticket. Airlines aren't going to make a policy because it all comes down to the bottom line, they need the higher fares and if someone will pay that for their kid then so be it. The parents are the one who you need to blame for their lack of entertaining their kids.
Good Luck to all Skyway Pilots! It's been great working with you!
 
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rogerbcn
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RE: Kids In First/Biz Class...never Understand

Thu Dec 07, 2006 1:12 am

Hola!

Some time ago a similar issue aroused on British Rail with people listening to music and the development of the arguments, more or less, followed the ones stated above.

The conclusion was: why aren't people banned on trains? so everyone will feel comfortable in the end.

Maybe we can reach the same conclusion.....  hyper 

Fins una altra!

Rogerbcn  wave 
"At reise er at leve" H.C. Andersen (Travelling is Living)
 
supa7E7
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RE: Kids In First/Biz Class...never Understand

Thu Dec 07, 2006 1:14 am

These kids are probably nonrevs in both cases. You said they were the LAST passengers to board. This is telltale sign that they are either industry employees or perhaps oversale volunteers who got on.

If they are employees or upgrade, kids should not be allowed in J or F internationally. Only with full fare.

Age discrimination? Are you people nuts? Companies are free to discriminate against children ANY time they wish to.

It is really crummy for people to drag their kids into F or C, making noise. If nothing else, the mommy has to make cooing noises for the whole flight, which is also annoying.
"Who's to say spaceships aren't fine art?" - Phil Lesh
 
Rotate
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RE: Kids In First/Biz Class...never Understand

Thu Dec 07, 2006 1:19 am

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 37):
Last time I checked, no airline ticket gave any guarantees that you wouldn't be sat next to a screaming tot for the duration of the flight. Paying more for F or J only gets you a better seat, more space and better service. Period. No guarantees about library levels of peace and quiet.

Get over yourselves.

So true ...

Robin
ABC
 
kmh1956
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RE: Kids In First/Biz Class...never Understand

Thu Dec 07, 2006 1:21 am

Quoting Airways45 (Reply 16):
My suggestion would be to stop upgrades of children. Though I would like to stop children (especially babies) altogether I except this would never happen.

I assume you never plan to breed, then. Or will you 'banish' the child and the child's mother/nanny/paid parent to Y class just so you can travel in F without interruption?

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 37):
Get over yourselves.

Amen!!!!
'Somebody tell me why I'm on my own if there's a soulmate for everyone' :Natasha Bedingfield
 
EWRCabincrew
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RE: Kids In First/Biz Class...never Understand

Thu Dec 07, 2006 1:23 am

Quoting Supa7E7 (Reply 41):
These kids are probably nonrevs in both cases. You said they were the LAST passengers to board. This is telltale sign that they are either industry employees or perhaps oversale volunteers who got on.

Telltale sign...maybe, but not necessarily. Probably non-revs in both cases...only speculative.

People who are not non-revs board last all the time. Pick a reason. If they were non-revs, I can assure you the parents would be pulled aside and spoken to if this was pulled in Business/First or coach.

But like I said earlier, I have no problem talking to the parents and getting the point across.
You can't cure stupid
 
bdl2stl2pvg
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RE: Kids In First/Biz Class...never Understand

Thu Dec 07, 2006 1:24 am

Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 38):
I believe that's the same rule Delta has. IINM, every other major US carrier has the same rule. No one in first class under the age of 12.

Do they really have this as a documented rule? Is it on their website? I can see this as an embargo against Non-rev passengers but a paying passenger? In the litigous U.S. I am shocked that this has not been challenged legally if so.

From a personal point of view, we have made several Trans-Pacific crossing in J as a family. I fully accept that my wife & I have an obligation to control our children. That includes replying to the F/As politely throughout the flight, something that I see lacking in many of the adjacent adults. I have to say that on more than one occasion I could see the dread and grimaced expressions as we board the aircraft, and that is just accepted. Sometimes, we are complemented at the end of the flight by crew and/or other pax on how well behaved they were. As Ex-pats our company policy allows for the entire family to travel in J across the ocean and that is what we are going to do. Again, we expect our children to behave and I think that the real issue is parental control. Its not just on a/c either.
 
kmh1956
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RE: Kids In First/Biz Class...never Understand

Thu Dec 07, 2006 1:29 am

Quoting Supa7E7 (Reply 41):
If they are employees or upgrade, kids should not be allowed in J or F internationally. Only with full fare.

You're still a kid....what the hell are you on about?
'Somebody tell me why I'm on my own if there's a soulmate for everyone' :Natasha Bedingfield
 
EWRCabincrew
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RE: Kids In First/Biz Class...never Understand

Thu Dec 07, 2006 1:39 am

It will always boil down to parental control and parenting (or lack thereof). Always.
You can't cure stupid
 
supa7E7
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RE: Kids In First/Biz Class...never Understand

Thu Dec 07, 2006 1:51 am

Quoting Kmh1956 (Reply 46):
You're still a kid....what the hell are you on about?

I thought it was a standard rule... as people mention, the US carriers have a policy against employee kids under 12 up front. Yes, it's an actual rule.

As for paying passengers / official upgrades, there are no age rules known on any worldwide carrier.

Lastly, a J seat burns an incredible amount of fuel (about 2x normal) and kids aren't worth the fuel. When you buy a J ticket, you personally burn a lot of excess oil. For business pax this is fine, but for kids under 12.... what's the point. On an environmental basis I object to it. For example going NRT-JFK, a plane burns around 25 mpg/pax. A J class pax conservatively doubles that. 12 mpg. Over 6000 miles, that's around 500 gallons per J class pax, half of which is excess over an above the economy level. So all I am saying is, include 250 gallons of excess fuel burn in your moral calculation about children in F/C class intl long haul. Happy children are nice, but does that justify a rather large cauldron of pollutants going into our air? Financially it is justified in the airlines' view, but we shouldn't automatically assume we should agree with that.
"Who's to say spaceships aren't fine art?" - Phil Lesh
 
ohsopc
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RE: Kids In First/Biz Class...never Understand

Thu Dec 07, 2006 1:58 am

Quoting SQ452 (Thread starter):
The last passengers to get on board the aircraft was a family of four with 2 very young kids (maybe 2 and 5 years old). They have been somewhat well behaved but I have had this happen a number of times now where some really young kids will fly business class with their parents. More than half the time they are little hellions running up and down the aisle, crying, and spilling juice everywhere.

The thing I dont get is why airlines really have not developed a policy yet. I know some people in F and J class can get annoyed by it (myself included) but what does everyone else feel?

I dont understand when people say they want to bann kids from first or business class. It is like... what do they expect them to do? send the 2 and 5 years old to economy alone? have the parents downgrade themselves? This is discrimination.

I'm saying this as a kid that was fortunate enough to fly in Business trans-atlantic since a very young age. But I don't cause trouble, my parents even told me I was complimented by the crew and fellow passengers often. So I mean it is up to the kids and their parents.

Now as a college student, yes my 17 hour flight from BKK-JFK there was a screaming, naugthy kid in the row in front of me. I can understand how upset you can be, but what can you do more than tell the parents that the child is annoying you? They are fare paying customers like you.

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