burnsie28
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NW Name Larger In Europe Then Any Other US Carrier

Thu Dec 07, 2006 2:08 pm

Ok before ya'll jump to conclusions and such, think about this, while DL and CO are larger in Europe, for those of you in the US you know that all the Northwest signs around here say Northwest/KLM and apparently its the same overseas, so possibly do you think that NW's name goes further in Europe, while most people may have never flown or know what a NW plane looks like, wouldn't the Northwest name itself be displayed more then those of other US carriers? What do you all think?
 
Alitalia744
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RE: NW Name Larger In Europe Then Any Other US Carrier

Thu Dec 07, 2006 2:12 pm

I dont think its valid.
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
burnsie28
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RE: NW Name Larger In Europe Then Any Other US Carrier

Thu Dec 07, 2006 2:17 pm

While NW may not serve a lot of places, I would still think that people see "NORTHWEST" more then Delta and stuff. Thats what I am saying is that if some news about NW came out or something people could recognize it. I'm just saying that the Northwest name is out there more then others.
 
commavia
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RE: NW Name Larger In Europe Then Any Other US Carrier

Thu Dec 07, 2006 2:20 pm

Quoting Burnsie28 (Thread starter):
while DL and CO are larger in Europe, for those of you in the US you know that all the Northwest signs around here say Northwest/KLM

And in the U.S. they say Northwest/KLM, but just as how in the U.S. 95% of the people seeing that sign see "Northwest" and not "Northwest/KLM," the vast, vast majority of the people in Europe see "KLM" and not "Northwest/KLM."

Quoting Burnsie28 (Thread starter):
while most people may have never flown or know what a NW plane looks like, wouldn't the Northwest name itself be displayed more then those of other US carriers?

Maybe it's technically on more signboards across the continent, as part of the deep Northwest/KLM alliance, but I think your reasoning that Northwest's name is thus "larger in Europe than any other U.S. carrier" is flawed, as it's a bit misplaced. While Northwest's name -- as part of the joint KLM signage -- may physically appear in more places, I can almost guarantee that if they did a survey in Europe of the American airline brands they most readily recognize, Delta, Continental and American would appear at the top of the list, not Northwest.
 
burnsie28
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RE: NW Name Larger In Europe Then Any Other US Carrier

Thu Dec 07, 2006 2:27 pm

Quoting Commavia (Reply 3):
And in the U.S. they say Northwest/KLM, but just as how in the U.S. 95% of the people seeing that sign see "Northwest" and not "Northwest/KLM," the vast, vast majority of the people in Europe see "KLM" and not "Northwest/KLM."

True but that name is subconsiouly stored by the brain until something sparks it, because people still read the KLM, but may not think much of it.
 
jetdeltamsy
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RE: NW Name Larger In Europe Then Any Other US Carrier

Thu Dec 07, 2006 2:41 pm

I disagree. Delta and Continental are very well known throughout Eastern and especially Western Europe. Eluding to your comment, most people do know what a Delta aircraft looks like.

I just disagree with you. No big deal.
Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
 
gunsontheroof
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RE: NW Name Larger In Europe Then Any Other US Carrier

Thu Dec 07, 2006 3:03 pm

With that logic, KLM is the best known European carrier in the U.S.

...and done.
 
panamair
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RE: NW Name Larger In Europe Then Any Other US Carrier

Thu Dec 07, 2006 5:30 pm

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 2):
While NW may not serve a lot of places, I would still think that people see "NORTHWEST" more then Delta

Actually, they see "nwa" as part of the logo next to KLM and frankly, 90% of the non-NW/KL travelers don't bother to go the next step to ask "what is NWA?" or find out it has something to do with "Northwest".

"What is this "n-u-u-a"? or in Germany, what is this "n-v-v-a"? LOL

As for CO and DL, their actual names "Continental" and "Delta" are also more closely associated with many European languages in terms of normal word similarity and familiarization. For example, in German, Continental would be similar to 'kontinental' while Delta is well, just delta. Delta and the Widget together are even easier to remember given the Greek roots of "delta".

So while the Northwest logo may be seen at more places around Europe, it doesn't help much when most people do not actually know what it is, or care to find out since they don't really have an opportunity to fly on it from most European cities....
 
Joost
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RE: NW Name Larger In Europe Then Any Other US Carrier

Thu Dec 07, 2006 6:42 pm

NWA is not very known in the Netherlands. I'd say thay only people who travel to the US and people with a slight interest in aviation know the brand. Besides that, it's not advertised in any way, as it is all KLM.

Even the NWA operated flights like BOS and DTW are advertised as KLM flights, on the well-known blue advertisements in newspapers, magazines and in travel agencies.

The ads only feature very small footnotes "flights may be operated by our partner airlines Air France, Northwest Airlines or other partners."

So I'd say that at least here, NWA is not known. Pure gut feeling, but I'd say that the best known American carrier in the Netherlands is United. They advertise on a very regular basis for tickets to the USA, especially in spring to advertise for summer vacations.
 
cedars747
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RE: NW Name Larger In Europe Then Any Other US Carrier

Thu Dec 07, 2006 6:49 pm

Quoting Burnsie28 (Thread starter):
NW Name Larger In Europe Then Any Other US Carrier

In Norway not any more..................now it's CO era

Alex!!!
Tengo una pasion por la aviacion !لدي شغف للطيران !I have a passion for aviation !Jeg har en lidenskap for luftfart!j'ai
 
nosedive
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RE: NW Name Larger In Europe Then Any Other US Carrier

Thu Dec 07, 2006 6:56 pm

Quoting Commavia (Reply 3):
The vast, vast majority of the people in Europe see "KLM" and not "Northwest/KLM."

 checkmark 

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 4):
True but that name is subconsiouly stored by the brain until something sparks it, because people still read the KLM, but may not think much of it.



Quoting Gunsontheroof (Reply 6):
With that logic, KLM is the best known European carrier in the U.S.

...and done.

KLM does have a dual logo, but at the airports I've been in over here, it's usually a dual logo with AF
 
cornish
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RE: NW Name Larger In Europe Then Any Other US Carrier

Thu Dec 07, 2006 7:28 pm

Quoting Burnsie28 (Thread starter):

 rotfl   rotfl   rotfl 

I'm sorry I can't help laughing, but I would say with the exception of the Netherlands that Northwest is probably the LEAST known US major carrier in Europe. and a Dutch poster above says its not that well known there.

Look at the major European markets:

UK - minimal presence (compared to other US carriers), barely known by the flying public. AA, UA, CO and to a lesser extent DL are those that are known in the UK. You'll see billboards and ads in the newspapers for CO in the UK, same for AA and UA - tv ads for AA too. But I've never seen ANY NW advertising in London for example.

Germany - again their presence isn't great - AA, UA, DL again being far more known for example.

France - not well known - DL, CO, AA, UA - here we go again....

Spain - again probably unknown by the public

Italy - ditto.

So that's the really big markets covered. Suspect you'll find the vast majority of NW's flights to and from Europe carry Americans, whereas with the likes of AA, CO and DL for example the ratio will be much more balanced.

NW exposure in Europe - limited as far as US carriers go - even US Airways is better known in many of the big markets here.

It would be like trying to say that Austrian Airlines was the most known European carrier in North America.

Now if it was the Far east you were talknig about that would be another story entirely.
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
Joost
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RE: NW Name Larger In Europe Then Any Other US Carrier

Thu Dec 07, 2006 7:46 pm

Quoting Cornish (Reply 11):
So that's the really big markets covered. Suspect you'll find the vast majority of NW's flights to and from Europe carry Americans, whereas with the likes of AA, CO and DL for example the ratio will be much more balanced.

I think that only goes for the people that have booked directly at NWA. There are quite some European KLM transfer pax on the AMS-DTW/MSP flights. But again, these people did not choose for NWA, but they selected KLM.

Interesting enough, KLM advertises and sells also flights like FRA-DTW (NW 0051).
 
cornish
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RE: NW Name Larger In Europe Then Any Other US Carrier

Thu Dec 07, 2006 7:56 pm

Quoting Joost (Reply 12):
I think that only goes for the people that have booked directly at NWA. There are quite some European KLM transfer pax on the AMS-DTW/MSP flights. But again, these people did not choose for NWA, but they selected KLM.

Oh absolutely. And the Netherlands is a special case due to the KLM/NW alliance. But for most other markets that NW serve in Europe, I suspect that unless there is a need to go to DTW or MSP, most Europeans on NW flights will have ended up on there thanks to it being the cheapest option that came up on Expedia or Opodo to their ultimate destination in Europe.

That's not to dismiss NW as a poor carrier - its simply that they really are not at all well known here in Europe.
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
madairdrie
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RE: NW Name Larger In Europe Then Any Other US Carrier

Thu Dec 07, 2006 8:24 pm

Would have to say that most people would know AA UA and CO, as big US airlines. DL US would be seen my a large amount of people as small airlines, and NWA would be seen as a strange entitiy most would know they are a big airline but probably not sure why they never see them.
Kenneth
 
bobnwa
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RE: NW Name Larger In Europe Then Any Other US Carrier

Thu Dec 07, 2006 10:20 pm

Quoting Madairdrie (Reply 14):
Would have to say that most people would know AA UA and CO, as big US airlines. DL US would be seen my a large amount of people as small airlines, and NWA would be seen as a strange entitiy most would know they are a big airline but probably not sure why they never see them.
Kenneth

People's perception is funny. If they are thinking of large airlines and not who is better known, then AA,UA,DL,CO, and NW are all larger than BA(worldwide).I agree that NW is not well known in Europe even though they have flying there since 1979. I believe that is longer than AA,UA,DL,CO and US, but I could be wrong.
 
Jano
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RE: NW Name Larger In Europe Then Any Other US Car

Thu Dec 07, 2006 11:22 pm

Burnsie

NWA is not much known in Central Europe.

I visit two other local discussion forums, one Slovakian www.slovak-airports.net , and one Czech www.airways.cz. When I showed up there at these forums for the first time I noticed that NW was basically an unknown entity. DL*, CO, UA and AA were much better known.

*when I lived in Spain in Seville in 1997 DL had an ad on TV almost every day. They even did not fly there. They flew to MAD.

What I noticed that at least the perception of NW among the participants of those 2 above mentioned forums changed quite a bit in last few years. My take is that 3 things had something to do with this:
- those beautiful A330s and the new livery,
- NW filling Ch11,
- NW ordering B787 and being North American launch customer.

--Jano
The Widget Air Line :)
 
YYCowboy
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RE: NW Name Larger In Europe Then Any Other US Carrier

Fri Dec 08, 2006 2:50 am

Interesting thread. How "glued at the hip" are NWA and KLM anyway? This seems to be, beyond a typical code share agreement. Would this arrangement, whatever it may be, affect any merger that NWA might encounter? Would KLM/AF parent be a potential suitor for NWA? If it is, a formidable worldwide airline would emerge. I'm sorry in advance if this has been discussed before.
Its hard to soar like an eagle when you're flying with turkeys
 
below
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RE: NW Name Larger In Europe Then Any Other US Carrier

Fri Dec 08, 2006 3:05 am

Quoting Cornish (Reply 11):
I would say with the exception of the Netherlands that Northwest is probably the LEAST known US major carrier in Europe. and a Dutch poster above says its not that well known there.

My gut agrees. I would like to see that study.

Quote:
Germany - again their presence isn't great - AA, UA, DL again being far more known for example.

From my own experience I can confirm that completely. Then again, maybe I hang out on airports too much where the NW exposure is minimal. I don't even know if they depart in FRA Terminal 1 or 2 (And I almost much know the gates for AA, UA and DL flights).

Sorry Burnsie, prove your claim.

Alex
 
Lucky42
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RE: NW Name Larger In Europe Then Any Other US Carrier

Fri Dec 08, 2006 3:36 am

Quoting Cornish (Reply 11):
Northwest is probably the LEAST known US major carrier in Europe.

It's not much better here in the USA either. I am from NJ and all my friends and relatives from there all the time I worked for NW used to say that I worked for Northwestern.. Unless you are from MSP DTW or MEM you would be amazed at how many people have never heard of Northwest.
 
panamair
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RE: NW Name Larger In Europe Then Any Other US Carrier

Fri Dec 08, 2006 3:41 am

Quoting Below (Reply 18):
I don't even know if they depart in FRA Terminal 1 or 2 (And I almost much know the gates for AA, UA and DL flights).

Interesting...as AA only has two daily flights out of FRA and they have never fared too well in Germany either. But with a name like "American" and being the biggest single carrier in the world, their reputation certainly spreads further and faster than NWA...
 
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OA412
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RE: NW Name Larger In Europe Then Any Other US Carrier

Fri Dec 08, 2006 3:57 am

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 15):
I believe that is longer than AA,UA,DL,CO and US, but I could be wrong.

I know for certain that DL predates NW in Europe by a few years as their ATL-LGW flight began in 1974. However, you are right about AA, UA, and US. AA didn't begin serving Europe unitl 1982, UA in 89 IIRC and US sometime in the late 80's/early 90's. CO I'm simply not certain of but I seem to remember that they too began serving Europe after 1979.
Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
 
SESGDL
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RE: NW Name Larger In Europe Then Any Other US Carrier

Fri Dec 08, 2006 4:21 am

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 15):
I agree that NW is not well known in Europe even though they have flying there since 1979.

DL started the first SCHEDULED US-Europe service in 1978 with ATL-LGW service.

Jeremy
 
bobnwa
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RE: NW Name Larger In Europe Then Any Other US Carrier

Fri Dec 08, 2006 5:50 am

Quoting Lucky42 (Reply 19):
It's not much better here in the USA either. I am from NJ and all my friends and relatives from there all the time I worked for NW used to say that I worked for Northwestern.. Unless you are from MSP DTW or MEM you would be amazed at how many people have never heard of Northwest.

It's amazing that NW has the highest load factor in the industry year after year and is unknown.
 
SESGDL
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RE: NW Name Larger In Europe Then Any Other US Carrier

Fri Dec 08, 2006 6:09 am

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 23):
It's amazing that NW has the highest load factor in the industry year after year and is unknown.

This may be true but AA, UA, DL, US, and WN all carry more passengers than NW; which is much more of a determinant of recognition than load factor is.

Jeremy
 
bobnwa
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RE: NW Name Larger In Europe Then Any Other US Carrier

Fri Dec 08, 2006 6:33 am

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 24):
This may be true but AA, UA, DL, US, and WN all carry more passengers than NW; which is much more of a determinant of recognition than load factor is.

I think number of passengers is a reflection of how many flights an airline operates, not recognition.
 
B6WNQX
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RE: NW Name Larger In Europe Then Any Other US Carrier

Fri Dec 08, 2006 6:56 am

I know that when I first started flying in and out of PDX, the name that always popped in my head was Northwest/KLM Royal Dutch. I don't know why the whole name stuck but until I learned otherwise I thought that they were one in the same carrier. I'm not trying to say that this would still be the same as with everyone across the pond but I know that names can play tricks with your mind.

I also immediatly think of JAL, Quantas (for the kangaroo), Lufthansa (thanks to UA...same principle as NW here on the west coast), and ANA. I don't know why these names, symbols, or initials always stuck but they did from the advertising and/or signs that US carriers displayed.
 
jad0761
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RE: NW Name Larger In Europe Then Any Other US Carrier

Fri Dec 08, 2006 8:24 am

Quoting Panamair (Reply 20):

Well, the FRA flights operated by NW face very high competition as Lufthansa just started a second daily service from DTW, which NW has talked about stepping up and offering more service also. Secondly, this route serves one purpose and the route has huge demand from one major industry: car industry, especially Ford and Daimler-Chrysler,these flights are quite like as if you were offering daily shuttles as Ford does in Europe and Airbus also. Also, when I lived in Italy, France, Germany, U.K., Netherlands, and Malta (my dad used to have a job that required overseas living and lots of moves) I was surprised at how many people actually new about NW, more then you would think. T.V. ads(especially in the Netherlands) ran every 20 minutes for NW it seemed when I was there, also in Germany there was a bunch of billboards for a while, and in France their was newspaper ads, while Italy at the airport they passed out fliers at one point everytime you exited from an Alitalia flight advertising their new code-shared link to DTW on NW. And even quite a few people in Malta new what NW was. Even though AA/DL/US/CO might offer more service to more places, NW actually offers more services worldwide then any of them through their codeshare with KLM, and also for example in Stockholm the CO counter's sometimes have NW luggage tags when they run out. And yes in tha back of your mind you see the NW part of NW/KLM
 
Bongodog1964
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RE: NW Name Larger In Europe Then Any Other US Carrier

Fri Dec 08, 2006 10:28 am

Quoting Cornish (Reply 11):
UK - minimal presence (compared to other US carriers), barely known by the flying public. AA, UA, CO and to a lesser extent DL are those that are known in the UK. You'll see billboards and ads in the newspapers for CO in the UK, same for AA and UA - tv ads for AA too. But I've never seen ANY NW advertising in London for example.

Must agree, in the UK NWA is a small player operating out of LGW, their presence barely registers. I would bet that if you asked 100 people in the street 75 wouldn't even have heard of Northwest and out of the other 25 20 wouldn't know what country they were from.
 
dutchjet
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RE: NW Name Larger In Europe Then Any Other US Carrier

Fri Dec 08, 2006 10:40 am

Lets face it, the airline names that most Europeans and other non-Americans associate with the US are Pan Am and TWA.......the two legendary carriers that are no longer with us.

I have to agree with most of the post above, the Northwest name is not well recognized in Europe, even in the Netherlands and the Benelux countries where KLM has a strong market presence and does serious marketing. There have been stories that when Dutch passengers book flights with KL codes and end up on NW airplanes they are not the happiest of travellers. It true that many KL/NW logos appear throughout the KLM system (for example, at Maastricht Airport, a Dutch regional airport with KL Cityhopper service, the signs by the check-in counters are labled KL/NW) but it makes no impact on the average traveller.

The good news for NW is that it really does not matter.......KL and NW share revenue on transatlantic operations, codeshare extensively throughout their respective route systems, and easily route pax worldwide seemelessly. Both benefit from the KL/NW deal...so does it really matter that Mrs.Average European does not recognize the Northwest name as long as she borards her KL flight from Geneva to Amsterdam, and then connects on to a NW flight Amsterdam to Detroit and connects on to a NW flight from Detroit to Phoenix?
 
aeroperu
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RE: NW Name Larger In Europe Then Any Other US Carrier

Fri Dec 08, 2006 11:02 am

IMHO, the way that NWA can make their name more recognizeable in all of Europe is to send some of their most recognizeable assets over there....I think it would be great to do a nonstop from AMS to PRG in a NWA DC-9!!!

 praise 
Alas peruanas en los cielos del mundo....
 
DETA737
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RE: NW Name Larger In Europe Then Any Other US Car

Fri Dec 08, 2006 11:19 am

Quoting OA412 (Reply 21):

I know for certain that DL predates NW in Europe by a few years as their ATL-LGW flight began in 1974. However, you are right about AA, UA, and US. AA didn't begin serving Europe unitl 1982, UA in 89 IIRC and US sometime in the late 80's/early 90's. CO I'm simply not certain of but I seem to remember that they too began serving Europe after 1979.

Delta did have the interchange with Pan Am in the 1970s flying ATL-IAD-LHR. Sometimes Delta planes would make it to LHR, but they were flown by Pan Am crews.

Delta's first scheduled transatlantic service did not start until April 30, 1978, ATL-LGW. However, they are the U.S. carrier that has been serving Europe the longest out of those still in existence (if we discount American Export/American Overseas which was a subsidiary of American Airlines).

In my opinion I would say that Delta and Continental Airlines are probably the best known carriers because of the number of routes they offer. American and United would probably come up as recognisable names if nothing more because of September 11. Northwest and US Airways are probably the lesser known of the bunch, that being said I cannot say that any of the bunch is really as well known as some non-European carriers like Singapore Airlines, Cathay Pacific and Qantas. If I had to say I would guess that Pan Am and TWA, although no longer with us, are proably the best known airline names on this side of the pond simply because of their long history as well as being featured in popular films like "The Aviator".


Here's a list of the start scheduled Transatlantic passenger service by U.S. carriers, defunct carriers have an asterisk.
*Pan Am June 28, 1939 (first passenger service) New York to Southampton
*American Export later American Overseas Airlines June 1942 New York-Shannon
*TWA LGA-ORY February 5, 1946
*National Airlines MIA-LHR June 16, 1970
*Braniff International DFW-LGW March 18, 1978
Delta ATL-LGW April 30, 1978
Northwest MSP-DTW-JFK-CPH-ARN March 31, 1979
*Air Florida MIA-LGW March 1980
*Western Airlines HNL-ANC-LGW October 27, 1980
World Airways BWI-LGW-FRA May 29, 1981
American Airlines DFW-LGW May 1982
*People Express EWR-LGW May 26, 1983
Continental Airlines IAH-LGW April 28, 1985
*Eastern Airlines MIA-LGW June 15, 1985
*Piedmont Airlines CLT-LGW June 15, 1987
US Airways CLT-LGW August, 1989 (ex-Piedmont)
United Airlines IAD-FRA and ORD-FRA May 15, 1990
 
DTWAGENT
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RE: NW Name Larger In Europe Then Any Other US Carrier

Fri Dec 08, 2006 12:22 pm

My Gospel Choir group will be going to Italy in 2008. And we are looking at the DL flights out of JFK. On all of our travels overseas. We have never traveled on NWA. That is because they will not give us good flight times and their fares are to high. So I don't think about NWA first everytime I fly or when I book flights for my clients. I look at who is cheeper on the days of travel.

Chuck P
 
Jano
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RE: NW Name Larger In Europe Then Any Other US Carrier

Fri Dec 08, 2006 1:00 pm

Quoting DTWAGENT (Reply 32):
On all of our travels overseas. We have never traveled on NWA. That is because they will not give us good flight times and their fares are to high.

It really depends. I follow only 3 markets (I do 6-7 trips a year): TYS to VIE or PRG or BUD. NW/KL tends to be the least expensive in the long run. The trick is to buy no earlier that some 12 weeks prior to the desired day of flight. Before that, al least for the above 3 markets, NW tends to have only the more expensive H or higher fares. No V, Q fares.
The Widget Air Line :)
 
gunsontheroof
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RE: NW Name Larger In Europe Then Any Other US Carrier

Fri Dec 08, 2006 1:19 pm

Quoting Nosedive (Reply 10):

KLM does have a dual logo, but at the airports I've been in over here, it's usually a dual logo with AF

The dual NW/KL logo is at most U.S. airports I've been to...I also saw it in HEL last year, but perhaps that has changed.
 
db373
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RE: NW Name Larger In Europe Then Any Other US Carrier

Fri Dec 08, 2006 1:39 pm

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 25):
I think number of passengers is a reflection of how many flights an airline operates, not recognition.

The number of flights an airline operates out of a given area would have a direct effect on their recognition. Keep in mind, we're simply talking about recognition, not reputation. By your logic, we could argue that DL is the most recognizable American airline in Asia, even though they have barely scratched the surface there and NW completely eclipses them in that market. Besides, the more passengers an airline carriers, the more passengers who can say "Oh. I know of that airline." Your comment makes no sense.
Keep Delta My Delta
 
L1011Lover
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RE: NW Name Larger In Europe Then Any Other US Carrier

Fri Dec 08, 2006 4:51 pm

Quoting Madairdrie (Reply 14):
Would have to say that most people would know AA UA and CO, as big US airlines. DL US would be seen my a large amount of people as small airlines, and NWA would be seen as a strange entitiy most would know they are a big airline but probably not sure why they never see them.
Kenneth

I agree that AA, UA and CO would be known by many people as big US carriers. However I totally disagree that DL is seen by a large amount of people as a small airline.

I think it´s just the other way around, and DL is seen by most people in Europe as THE American carrier. DL has a much longer history in Europe than any other of todays US carriers. Being the third major carrier serving Europe on a regular, scheduled basis beside Pan Am and TWA beginning in 1978! DL significantly continued to strengthen its position in the European market and since they took over PA´s European route authorities in 1991 they´re well known throughout Europe at the latest.

DL is definitely the best-known US carrier in Germany. Flying regularly to Germany since 1979. Over the years DL started (then in some cases cancelled and restarted) service to more German cities than any other US airline (except PA with their Internal German Services of course)!

DL now flies to FRA, TXL, MUC, DUS and STR. They also used to serve HAM throughout the 90´s! They took over PA´s FRA hub and used to fly to 7 US cities nonstop from there. More than PA ever served from FRA nonstop. Plus service to India and the Internal European routes as onward services from the US through FRA! They were the number 2 carrier at FRA behind LH!!!

I remember that throughout the 1990´s almost everyone who flew to the US seemed to be travelling on DL. Whenever I asked someone going on, or returning from a trip to the US which airline they have taken or were about to take their response was "Delta Air Lines"!

In the early 1990´s DL started a huge advertising campaign which lasted well into the late 1990´s including huge billboard signs, ads in magazines and of course the wonderful famous TV commercials so many people remember!

And like in Germany, I´m sure that DL is well known in many other places where they took over the PA routes! They´re PA´s successors and provided that PA was the best known airline throughout the world it is more than likely that many, many people know what DL is!

My guess is that DL as best known carrier is followed by UA in Germany, due to the fact that UA is partnering with LH and nowadays also has a strong presence in FRA.

NW sure isn´t that big in Europe and not as well-known as DL and UA and maybe AA and CO, still a lot of people know that NW is a US carrier. At least in Germany NW isn´t as unknown as many people think!

Quoting Below (Reply 18):
I don't even know if they depart in FRA Terminal 1 or 2

They depart from Terminal 2 at FRA. Mostly from one of the "E" gates!

Best regards

L1011Lover
 
Jelle
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2006 1:52 am

RE: NW Name Larger In Europe Then Any Other US Carrier

Fri Dec 08, 2006 5:20 pm

Just to trow in another thought. Many KLM flights are code shared with NW. On those flights people are always welcomed and thanked on behalf of KLM, NW and partners. Wouldn't that help to spread the name?
 
dutchjet
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Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

RE: NW Name Larger In Europe Then Any Other US Carrier

Fri Dec 08, 2006 9:24 pm

Quoting L1011Lover (Reply 36):
I think it´s just the other way around, and DL is seen by most people in Europe as THE American carrier.

That may not be true for all of Europe.......but it certainly true in Germany (as you point out) where Delta has a big presence with service to a lot of cities; DL opened up many ATL-Germany routes when it started transatlantic flying and then picked up Pan Am's big Frankfurt operation as part of the PA transatlantic deal. Its funny, eventhough DL cut back FRA operations over the years (since UA/LH joined forces in the Star Alliance and DL began to focus on Paris in connection with its SkyTeam membership with AF), Delta still has the name recognition in Germany. More Germans are familiar with Delta than United...even after all of the years.

CO is also gaining recognition due to its service to ""smaller"" European cities.

Also consider that CO and DL have made huge commitments to European services in recent years......first CO and now DL have added, and continue to add many transatlantic routes while the biggest american carriers, AA and UA, have not done much in Europe. The big CO and DL expansions in Europe increases their brand awareness in Europe.
 
bobnwa
Posts: 4473
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2000 12:10 am

RE: NW Name Larger In Europe Then Any Other US Carrier

Fri Dec 08, 2006 10:13 pm

Quoting Db373 (Reply 35):
Your comment makes no sense.

So your saying that having more flights has nothing to do with carrying more passengers.
 
dutchjet
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Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

RE: NW Name Larger In Europe Then Any Other US Carrier

Fri Dec 08, 2006 10:18 pm

Quoting Jelle (Reply 37):
Just to trow in another thought. Many KLM flights are code shared with NW. On those flights people are always welcomed and thanked on behalf of KLM, NW and partners. Wouldn't that help to spread the name?

You are very much correct and its a good point.....but do pax listen?  Smile
 
below
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2006 6:55 am

RE: NW Name Larger In Europe Then Any Other US Carrier

Tue Dec 12, 2006 4:46 am

Quoting Panamair (Reply 20):
Interesting...as AA only has two daily flights out of FRA and they have never fared too well in Germany either. But with a name like "American" and being the biggest single carrier in the world, their reputation certainly spreads further and faster than NWA...

I can just speak for myself, but when the project's budget is tight, AA is one of my top choices to the US for one simple reason: They give power to the peasants, litterally: Laptop power connectors in coach.

On Lufthansa or United that is a treat I need a Business or First Class ticket for.

Alex
 
Jano
Posts: 746
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2004 1:48 am

RE: NW Name Larger In Europe Then Any Other US Carrier

Tue Dec 12, 2006 10:07 am

Quoting Below (Reply 41):
I can just speak for myself, but when the project's budget is tight, AA is one of my top choices to the US for one simple reason: They give power to the peasants, litterally: Laptop power connectors in coach.

Also available on NW A330s in the front part of coach. See http://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Nor...Northwest_Airlines_Airbus_A330.php
The Widget Air Line :)
 
gh123
Posts: 645
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2006 10:09 pm

RE: NW Name Larger In Europe Then Any Other US Carrier

Tue Dec 12, 2006 10:19 am

Quoting Burnsie28 (Thread starter):
so possibly do you think that NW's name goes further in Europe

Stupid comment.

UA and American, continental and Delta command the respect.

I fly a lot and I've never even bothered to even go to Northwest's website. I don't even know if they fly the routes I fly.
 
gh123
Posts: 645
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2006 10:09 pm

RE: NW Name Larger In Europe Then Any Other US Carrier

Tue Dec 12, 2006 10:26 am

Quoting Below (Reply 41):
They give power to the peasants, literally: Laptop power connectors in coach.

You are absolutely right. I fly Economy when on personal flights but F/J when on business. One of the main reasons I ALWAYS fly with AA is due to the power points in Economy.

I once flew on UA from Chicago to London Heathrow on United and ended up chatting with the CEO of United Airline's UK operations (bloody nice guy by the way.) I told him that this was the reason why I always flew on AA when in economy. He told me that they were just coming out of bankruptcy and they did have plans to make changes and he told me that he would make a point about it.
 
bond007
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Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2005 2:07 am

RE: NW Name Larger In Europe Then Any Other US Carrier

Tue Dec 12, 2006 2:50 pm

Quoting Gh123 (Reply 44):
One of the main reasons I ALWAYS fly with AA is due to the power points in Economy.

Well, if you can REALLY manage to use any decent size laptop in standard coach pitch, with or without the guy in front reclining, for longer than your battery lasts (at least 4hrs for later models), then I guess you're entitled to make that decision.

Personally, I think unless you're in an exit row, or business/first, it's almost impossible with a 14" screen or more.

I'd be buying a 6hr battery if mine wouldn't last ... not changing airlines.


Jimbo
I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
 
gkirk
Posts: 23347
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2000 3:29 am

RE: NW Name Larger In Europe Then Any Other US Carrier

Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:08 pm

Quoting Cornish (Reply 11):
UK - minimal presence (compared to other US carriers), barely known by the flying public. AA, UA, CO and to a lesser extent DL are those that are known in the UK.

AA and CO yes, UA not outside of London - A bit like BA to be honest  Wink
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
bobnwa
Posts: 4473
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2000 12:10 am

RE: NW Name Larger In Europe Then Any Other US Carrier

Tue Dec 12, 2006 10:22 pm

Quoting Gh123 (Reply 43):
I fly a lot and I've never even bothered to even go to Northwest's website. I don't even know if they fly the routes I fly.



I would guess you are not typical. Of the American carriers flying the Atlantic, AA,CO,DL NW, UA, and US, which one would you say has the highest load factor this year, I give you a hint, the first letter of it's two letter code is N.

On all the American carriers there are more Europeans onboard that U.S. originating passengers. So someone must have heard of NW in Europe. I agree they are not as well known as some of the others, but don't imply they are unknown. In what county do you live in Europe because the discussion is about being known in Europe?
 
cornish
Posts: 7651
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 8:05 pm

RE: NW Name Larger In Europe Then Any Other US Carrier

Tue Dec 12, 2006 10:39 pm

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 47):
Of the American carriers flying the Atlantic, AA,CO,DL NW, UA, and US, which one would you say has the highest load factor this year, I give you a hint, the first letter of it's two letter code is N.

Actually that doesn't surprise me. In my days analysing IATA's monthly carrier data, KL and NW consistantly had the highest North Atlantic load factors of any carriers.

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 47):
In what county do you live in Europe because the discussion is about being known in Europe?

It looks like Gh123 is UK based. If so then NW probably is the least known of US carriers here (unless you are an older Scot who remebers the PIK/GLA services). In fact probably more Brits would know NW from booking a KL transatlantic ticket through AMS and ending up on NW metal than by actually flying them out of LGW. Maybe a slight exaggeration, but I'm sure many of the UK A.netters would agree that its not all that far from the truth....

Perhaps the KL alliance is part of this problem of awareness. Because it has had such a close relationship for so long, so much of its Euro focus is on AMS and therefore the Netherlands to the detriment of other countries.

But as said earlier, flip the arguement to Asia-Pacific and the Northwest name wil lbe so much better known, and people over there may be asking "Who is Delta or Us Airways ?" for example.
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
gh123
Posts: 645
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2006 10:09 pm

RE: NW Name Larger In Europe Then Any Other US Carrier

Tue Dec 12, 2006 10:42 pm

Quoting Bond007 (Reply 45):
Well, if you can REALLY manage to use any decent size laptop

DVD Player.

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 47):
I would guess you are not typical. Of the American carriers flying the Atlantic, AA,CO,DL NW, UA, and US, which one would you say has the highest load factor this year, I give you a hint, the first letter of it's two letter code is N.

On all the American carriers there are more Europeans onboard that U.S. originating passengers. So someone must have heard of NW in Europe. I agree they are not as well known as some of the others, but don't imply they are unknown. In what county do you live in Europe because the discussion is about being known in Europe?

Britain - my local airport is LHR.

I wonder if it would be fair to say that NW is just an airline you end up on when you are looking for a dirt-cheap fare or one that carries connections for KLM. Maybe you should exclude the UK from this debate.

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