KarlB737
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Ontario Airport Changes Name To LA/Ontario Int'l

Fri Dec 08, 2006 5:51 am

Courtesy: The Press Enterprise

Ontario Airport Changes Name to LA/Ontario Int'l

http://www.airportbusiness.com/artic.../article.jsp?siteSection=4&id=9177
 
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chrisnh
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RE: Ontario Airport Changes Name To LA/Ontario Int'l

Fri Dec 08, 2006 5:58 am

Well, here at Manchester/Boston regional Airport in Manchester, New Hampshire, we can't really say that the name-change has--thus far--done us any good. Attaching 'Boston' to our name was supposed to do something...I'm just not exactly sure what.

The bad news is that 2005-->2006 will be down. The good news is that 2006-->2007 will be up.

Chris in NH
 
Cubsrule
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RE: Ontario Airport Changes Name To LA/Ontario Int'l

Fri Dec 08, 2006 6:16 am

I wonder if the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim will be using Los Angeles/Ontario International for their flight needs...
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AlexPorter
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RE: Ontario Airport Changes Name To LA/Ontario Int'l

Fri Dec 08, 2006 6:36 am

The strange thing about ONT (and MHT) is that they technically aren't even in the Los Angeles and Boston metro areas (respectively). ONT is in the Riverside-San Bernardino-Ontario, CA MSA (the nation's 13th largest metro area, larger than Phoenix, having branched off from its former status as part of the LA metro after the 2000 census). MHT is in the Manchester-Nashua, NH MSA, the nation's 119th largest, just slightly above Provo, UT.

So in my opinion, they'd be more accurate calling it Ontario-Riverside International, or perhaps Ontario/Inland Empire International would also work.

edit: word choice

[Edited 2006-12-07 22:40:23]
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Tom in NO
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RE: Ontario Airport Changes Name To LA/Ontario Int'l

Fri Dec 08, 2006 6:39 am

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 2):
I wonder if the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim

Beat me to it.....my first thought was that they should have changed the name to Los Angeles International Airport of Ontario.

Tom at MSY
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AerospaceFan
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RE: Ontario Airport Changes Name To LA/Ontario Int'l

Fri Dec 08, 2006 6:40 am

Ontario, California is in San Bernardino County, which is adjacent to Los Angeles County. (The City of Los Angeles is situated entirely in Los Angeles County. There exists no duly constituted, geographically existent, physically defined political entity located in California known as "Los Angeles", pure and simple, other than either the City or the County of Los Angeles.) I have no idea why it was felt necessary to change the name of Ontario International, although I do recognize that the "Los Angeles World Airports" designation has long included Ontario International, probably on some technical or accounting basis.

It's all rather confusing.

[Edited 2006-12-07 22:43:55]
What's fair is fair.
 
Devilfish
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RE: Ontario Airport Changes Name To LA/Ontario Int

Fri Dec 08, 2006 6:42 am

It's supposed to lure airlines and people into using ONT thinking it was LAX.  Smile
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AerospaceFan
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RE: Ontario Airport Changes Name To LA/Ontario Int'l

Fri Dec 08, 2006 6:45 am

Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 6):
It's supposed to lure airlines and people into using ONT thinking it was LAX.  

Could be.   I like Ontario International. To me, it's more efficient than LAX because it's smaller, and yet still international. Kind of like Reagan versus Dulles (except that Reagan is a national airport).

[Edited 2006-12-07 22:46:32]
What's fair is fair.
 
LAXintl
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RE: Ontario Airport Changes Name To LA/Ontario Int'l

Fri Dec 08, 2006 6:46 am

As the article mentions the airport has been marketing itself as LA/Ontario Intl Airport anyways for a few years now. The change is more a formal renaming.

With LAWA being the operator, they are indeed starting to make noticeable changes via marketing tactics (including radio commercials which I keep hearing) along with new airport user fee's designed to encourage growth of traffic at the airport versus the regions continued dependence on LAX.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
sflaflight
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RE: Ontario Airport Changes Name To LA/Ontario Int'l

Fri Dec 08, 2006 4:07 pm

Well this is becoming a little ridiculous.

1) Can you picture the unsuspecting tourist thinking they just bought a plane ticket to LA and book a hotel in Santa Monica to find out the Airport can be upto 2 hours away (with traffic of course).

2) North Americans might know the difference, but if the objective to attract more international service, imagine the poor foreigners when they find out they are not in the city of LA after all.

3) Looks like LAWA is taking a page from Ryanair. At least they put the major city miles away last after the AP city. Girona (Barcelona) Hahn (Frankfurt) Bergamo (Milano). Ontario/LA International Airport at least!
LAWA didn't even do that!

4) This is typical of huge US metro areas. Hopefully my local airport won't follow suit. FLL currently is legally known as Fort Lauderdale-Hollywood International Airport At Dania Beach. The airport is about 20 miles north of Miami in a totally different county (same scenario as ONT). Could you imagine the new name following LAWA's lead - Fort Lauderdale-Hollywood International Airport at Dania Beach in the Miami Metropolitain Statistical Area. Boy, that would really get BA, LH, etc running to FLL or should I say FLHADBIMMSA! Nice job LAWA.
 
ONTFlyer
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RE: Ontario Airport Changes Name To LA/Ontario Int'l

Fri Dec 08, 2006 5:03 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 2):
I wonder if the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim will be using Los Angeles/Ontario International for their flight needs...

 checkmark 

Kinda use to it here in So Cal anyways. LA Angels of Anacrime, Bob Hope/Burbank/Glendale/Pasadena Airport, and now this. They can call it whatever they want but in my heart, it'll always just be good ol' Ontario Airport.

ONTFlyer
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fjnovak1
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RE: Ontario Airport Changes Name To LA/Ontario Int'l

Fri Dec 08, 2006 5:09 pm

Few people who haven't been to California even realize there is an Ontario, CA...i recently moved, switching my home airport from BDL to ONT... funny thing is, BDL is not much bigger in traffic than ONT, and my co-workers in CT asked me why i was going to Canada for Thanksgiving when they heard i'd fly from Ontario.
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lightsaber
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RE: Ontario Airport Changes Name To LA/Ontario Int'l

Sat Dec 09, 2006 4:01 am

If there was rapid transit into LA from Ontario... I wouldn't have a problem with this. (e.g., build an red line with a local and an express track out to ONT.) But until you can get from ONT to downtown/Santa Monica/Westwood in less than 60 minutes from the airport in rush hour, it shouldn't be called Los Angeles. Wait a second... You can't do LAX-downtown in 60 minutes in rush hour!  wideeyed 

Grrr... seperate topic, this city is chocking on its lack of transportation. Sigh... There just isn't any way for me to get to ONT in resonable time to catch a flight during the business day. I wish it was otherwise... but it isn't.

Lightsaber
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EWRCabincrew
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RE: Ontario Airport Changes Name To LA/Ontario Int'l

Sat Dec 09, 2006 4:05 am

Maybe Ryanair (FR) had something to do with the renaming of it. Cheaper fares to be had and the lot.  stirthepot 
You can't cure stupid
 
billreid
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RE: Ontario Airport Changes Name To LA/Ontario Int'l

Sat Dec 09, 2006 4:06 am

Makes absolute sense.

Ont, Ca.
Now is that Ontario, Canada
or
Ontario, California

Is it the Province and Country or is ir the Airport and State, the confusion really needed to be quelled.

Bill
Some people don't get it. Business is about making MONEY!
 
EWRCabincrew
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RE: Ontario Airport Changes Name To LA/Ontario Int'l

Sat Dec 09, 2006 4:10 am

Quoting BillReid (Reply 14):
Is it the Province and Country or is ir the Airport and State, the confusion really needed to be quelled.

Ontario, the city, in California, the state.

To fly to Ontario, the province, would be hard. Too many choices for an arrival destination. That is like saying I am flying to Nebraska, United States. You would say the city to which you were flying, not the state/province name.

[Edited 2006-12-08 20:18:58]
You can't cure stupid
 
AirlineBrat
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RE: Ontario Airport Changes Name To LA/Ontario Int'l

Sat Dec 09, 2006 4:13 am

I am expecting an announcement any day now for a name change to LA/Bakersfield Int'l
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deltairlines
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RE: Ontario Airport Changes Name To LA/Ontario Int'l

Sat Dec 09, 2006 4:13 am

I was telling people that I was flying to Ontario this weekend (tomorrow now, to be exact) and was telling them it was going to be a long ride out there from BOS. They thought I was nuts, until I told them Ontario, California, which was right outside of Los Angeles. Most people, at least up here, assume Ontario to be Canada, not a city in Southern California, so hopefully that will open up marketing a little bit.
 
AADC10
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RE: Ontario Airport Changes Name To LA/Ontario Int'l

Sat Dec 09, 2006 4:28 am

The name change is obviously partially for marketing. Many people do not know that Ontario is in Southern California and is owned by Los Angeles. Now if you land at ONT and expect to take a cab to Los Angeles, that is another issue since it is 40 miles away.

The other part of it is to placate the NIMBYs around LAX, the people who failed to notice that an airport was built there in 1925. It helps show that LAWA is pushing a "regional" plan as required under an agreement to build the new taxiways and reposition a runway.

I do not know if anybody really thinks this will work, but they are already taking steps to raise fees on LCCs at LAX to force them out to ONT, particularly WN. There was also an ad campaign for "LA/Ontario Airport." Of course the problem is that the business center of LA is much closer to LAX and the destinations out of ONT are limited and fares are often not any better than LAX.
 
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chrisnh
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RE: Ontario Airport Changes Name To LA/Ontario Int'l

Sat Dec 09, 2006 4:40 am

Quoting AlexPorter (Reply 3):
The strange thing about ONT (and MHT) is that they technically aren't even in the Los Angeles and Boston metro areas (respectively). ONT is in the Riverside-San Bernardino-Ontario, CA MSA (the nation's 13th largest metro area, larger than Phoenix, having branched off from its former status as part of the LA metro after the 2000 census). MHT is in the Manchester-Nashua, NH MSA, the nation's 119th largest, just slightly above Provo, UT.

Well, to be fair, while the airport up here isn't technically in the Boston metro market, it certainly does draw from it. So that's the rationale I'm sure. And I think the Boston metro market does include Salem, NH, which is only a few exits down Route 93 from MHT. I guess, like in horseshoes, it's close enough to count.

Chris in NH
 
Coronado990
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RE: Ontario Airport Changes Name To LA/Ontario Int'l

Sat Dec 09, 2006 4:49 am

I have advocated this several times on the forum but no one has yet taken me in earnest. Ontario needs true international flights to be taken seriously but it does not really have the passenger loads to warrant it.

Enter San Diego. San Diego has the passengers but not a lot of room to work with given runway length and obstacles. It may not be the greatest when it comes to cargo but Ontario is strong in this area. Ontario would be a great compliment to San Diego and should become sister airports working together.

Ontario has longer runways (12,200 ft) that would allow a fully loaded 767 type aircraft to operate non-stop to Europe. The 767 because it would not create the need for crossing the runway twice at Lindbergh Field (SAN) as the 777 and 747 does. (Once the old Ryan building come down, this can be solved but, for now, a 767 seems like the right aircraft).

Some kind of incentive such as splitting landing fee's between the two airports should be implemented to international operations to offset the cost as much as possible. Flights can obviously arrive at SAN from Europe or Asia non-stop without problem so flights can stop there first where everyone can go through customs. If 50 people remain on board for the flight to ONT, then all the better. It is mainly considered a cargo/fuel stop.

However, by thew time the 787 comes along to better utilize SAN, ONT could be that time be on it's own. The object is to, in the mean time, help each other out plus get people from always having to use LAX in this huge metropolis. And of course...get SAN some dang international flights!!!!
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sllevin
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RE: Ontario Airport Changes Name To LA/Ontario Int'l

Sat Dec 09, 2006 4:51 am

Quoting Sflaflight (Reply 9):
1) Can you picture the unsuspecting tourist thinking they just bought a plane ticket to LA and book a hotel in Santa Monica to find out the Airport can be upto 2 hours away (with traffic of course).

Heck, you can fly into LAX and find parts of the city (within the city limits, much less the county limits!) that are 2 hours away in traffic!

That's why the area needs to push expansion at regional airports instead of trying to build out LAX.

Steve
 
rampart
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RE: Ontario Airport Changes Name To LA/Ontario Int'l

Sat Dec 09, 2006 4:54 am

Quoting AlexPorter (Reply 3):
The strange thing about ONT (and MHT) is that they technically aren't even in the Los Angeles and Boston metro areas (respectively). ONT is in the Riverside-San Bernardino-Ontario, CA MSA (the nation's 13th largest metro area, larger than Phoenix, having branched off from its former status as part of the LA metro after the 2000 census). MHT is in the Manchester-Nashua, NH MSA, the nation's 119th largest, just slightly above Provo, UT.



Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 5):
physically defined political entity located in California known as "Los Angeles",

No, Los Angeles is also a Combined Statistical Area (I think formerly known as CSMAs), a much larger metro area that does include the R-SB-O MSA, as well as Ventura and Orange counties. Locals may prefer a separation, but fact is, most of the region orbits LA anyhow. And I was a former regional resident, so can say that.

So, as defined by the US Census Bureau, "Los Angeles" is by all means a political entity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_Los_Angeles_Area

We have Chicago-Ohare, Chicago-Midway, New York-LaGuardia, New York-JFK, New York-Newark (not officially known as that, but how many of you are really flying to Newark?), London-Heathrow, London-Gatwick, London-Stanstead... You get the idea. Los Angeles would not be unusual.

-Rampart

[Edited 2006-12-08 21:25:46]
 
travelin man
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RE: Ontario Airport Changes Name To LA/Ontario Int'l

Sat Dec 09, 2006 5:35 am

As an FYI from mapquest:

Downtown Los Angeles to:
BUR -- 16 miles
LAX -- 18 miles
LGB -- 26 miles
SNA -- 40 miles
ONT -- 41 miles

"LA" is so spread out that it is not a stretch to be able to say "LA-Ontario" in a marketing campaign. People who visit "LA" visit Disneyland, Malibu, Santa Monica, Newport, Palm Springs, etc etc. People who live in the "LA area" can live anywhere from Ventura to South Orange County.

Hell, Disneyland is as far from LAX as it is from ONT.

At the end of the day, LAWA is trying to get the word out about ONT (and it is a great facility).
 
2travel2know
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RE: Ontario Airport Changes Name To LA/Ontario Int'l

Sat Dec 09, 2006 5:37 am

Now with the name change, let see if LAWA finally gets ONT's F.I.S. extended hours so to accommodate flights in the evening and early night hours.
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AerospaceFan
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RE: Ontario Airport Changes Name To LA/Ontario Int'l

Sat Dec 09, 2006 6:49 am

Quoting Rampart (Reply 22):
No, Los Angeles is also a Combined Statistical Area (I think formerly known as CSMAs), a much larger metro area that does include the R-SB-O MSA, as well as Ventura and Orange counties.

Wow, I did not know that. Leave it up to the statisticians!  Wink Thanks for that information!  Smile
What's fair is fair.
 
rampart
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RE: Ontario Airport Changes Name To LA/Ontario Int'l

Sat Dec 09, 2006 7:02 am

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 25):
Wow, I did not know that. Leave it up to the statisticians! Thanks for that information!

No prob! See my profile: I'm more geographer than statistician, though that overlaps a bit.

I feel like attorney Fred Gailey invoking "the Post Office Department, a branch of the Federal Governent, recognizes this man Kris Kringle to be the one and only Santa Claus". ("Miracle on 34th Street" reference to those of you unfamiliar with the 1947 movie. I've seen it enough times to remember quotes.)

-Rampart
 
LAXintl
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RE: Ontario Airport Changes Name To LA/Ontario Int'l

Sat Dec 09, 2006 7:32 am

Quoting Travelin man (Reply 23):
"LA" is so spread out that it is not a stretch to be able to say "LA-Ontario" in a marketing campaign. People who visit "LA" visit Disneyland, Malibu, Santa Monica, Newport, Palm Springs, etc etc. People who live in the "LA area" can live anywhere from Ventura to South Orange County.

Hell, Disneyland is as far from LAX as it is from ONT.

At the end of the day, LAWA is trying to get the word out about ONT (and it is a great facility).

 checkmark  Agree totally. Using the Los Angeles name is not a misnomer as the airport is quite clearly in the Greater Los Angeles Metro Area.

One can quite easily drive for hours and still be in Los Angeles considering the metro area is some 4900 square miles.

In addition the Inland Empire area happens to be fastest growing region in California, so the LA Metro area population center continues an Eastward shift closer and closer towards Ontario anyways.

I'd say kudos to LAWA for actively really trying to push for a regional approach to airport use versus everyone looking at LAX to be a one-stop solution for entire Southern California.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
Devilfish
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RE: Ontario Airport Changes Name To LA/Ontario Int

Sat Dec 09, 2006 7:47 am

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 12):
Wait a second... You can't do LAX-downtown in 60 minutes in rush hour!

The FlyAway bus routinely makes it in 45 min, 30 min off peak - compliments of the car pool lanes. Always felt sorry for the guy cursing in the bumper-to-bumper traffic while we coast merrily along - often with just ten or so co-passengers. Downside is you stop only at Union Station and have to take a cab, bus or train to your final destination. That could be a bummer if you're not travelling light, and taxis are virtually non-existent around Patsaouras Plaza.
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
pbottenb
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RE: Ontario Airport Changes Name To LA/Ontario Int'l

Sat Dec 09, 2006 7:51 am

Quoting Rampart (Reply 26):
No prob! See my profile: I'm more geographer than statistician, though that overlaps a bit.

Very cool - I am a geographer as well. Are you a teacher or do you do GIS work?

PB
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: Ontario Airport Changes Name To LA/Ontario Int'l

Sat Dec 09, 2006 8:06 am

This is all just a ploy to try to get people and airlines themselves to use ONT as opposed to LAX. The truth of the matter is: ONT is great for the Inland Empire, but for downtown LA and the areas west of it (where most of LA's population is) its not very useful. However, the population of the Inland Empire does warrant the service ONT gets, and as the area grows (and it is) the service ONT gets should also grow. In all my years in LA, I have never flown out of ONT, but thats simply because I live in El Segundo (within walking distance of LAX).



Quoting Rampart (Reply 26):
I'm more geographer



Quoting Pbottenb (Reply 29):
I am a geographer

Its nice to meet other Geographers. I majored in Geography in college. Even though Im a travel consultant now, I like to think theres Geography to what I do!!!  Smile
It is what it is...
 
Lt-AWACS
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RE: Ontario Airport Changes Name To LA/Ontario Int'l

Sat Dec 09, 2006 8:15 am

Hey I got my first degree in Geography, it is cool to see some other geography folks!!

Ok, I have nothing to add to this thread but wanted to give a shout out to the other Geography folks Big grin It is cool to see you guys onboard!

sorry  Wink

as for the name change, IMO it will have little impact on the airport's usage.

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
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AirlineBrat
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RE: Ontario Airport Changes Name To LA/Ontario Int

Sat Dec 09, 2006 10:02 am

Cool, some fellow geographers in the house. My first degree was in geography as well. After some more schooling and a major exam I am now a landscape architect. My map making skills were a great help as I learned drafting and grading/drainage.
I'm leavin on a jet plane. Don't know when I'll be back again....
 
N1120A
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RE: Ontario Airport Changes Name To LA/Ontario Int'l

Sat Dec 09, 2006 10:36 am

Quoting AlexPorter (Reply 3):
The strange thing about ONT (and MHT) is that they technically aren't even in the Los Angeles and Boston metro areas (respectively). ONT is in the Riverside-San Bernardino-Ontario, CA MSA (the nation's 13th largest metro area, larger than Phoenix, having branched off from its former status as part of the LA metro after the 2000 census).

Cutting the Inland Empire and Ventura County out of the Los Angeles census totals seems like a bit of a ploy to keep New York from being passed as the largest market in the country, even though the New York MSA includes areas in 3 states. Anyway, both the Inland Empire and Ventura County are satelites of Los Angeles and the combined total is about 18 million.

Quoting AlexPorter (Reply 3):
So in my opinion, they'd be more accurate calling it Ontario-Riverside International, or perhaps Ontario/Inland Empire International would also work.

How many people outside of California do you actually think know what the Inland Empire is? Meanwhile, most people in the world know exactly what Los Angeles is.

Quoting Sflaflight (Reply 9):
3) Looks like LAWA is taking a page from Ryanair. At least they put the major city miles away last after the AP city. Girona (Barcelona) Hahn (Frankfurt) Bergamo (Milano). Ontario/LA International Airport at least!
LAWA didn't even do that!

The City of Los Angeles, through LAWA, owns ONT, so the point remains that it is a Los Angeles airport.

Quoting Sllevin (Reply 21):
That's why the area needs to push expansion at regional airports instead of trying to build out LAX.

What expansion is there to push? BUR, SNA and LGB will never be expanded and the City of Long Beach will never lift their slot limitations, nor will they invest in a real terminal. ONT is a beautiful, big airfield, but it is too far out from most of the higher yielding population to make sense. PMD is a white elephant that the Air Force are reluctant to let go of anyway. That leaves maybe the long talked about expansion and opening to commercial traffic of CMA, which is never going to happen, or building out LAX and actually looking at the region's real problem, the lack of adequate public transportation.

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 27):
In addition the Inland Empire area happens to be fastest growing region in California, so the LA Metro area population center continues an Eastward shift closer and closer towards Ontario anyways.

For all the talk about this shift toward the East, most of it is lower yield residential growth which doesn't drive airline profit margins. Further, there are already established massive population centers that are much closer to LAX anyway. LAWA is stupid to turn a blind eye to that.

Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 28):
Downside is you stop only at Union Station and have to take a cab, bus or train to your final destination. That could be a bummer if you're not travelling light, and taxis are virtually non-existent around Patsaouras Plaza.

A lot of the Fly Away's success at Union Station has been driven by people coming by train from San Diego.

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 30):
ONT is great for the Inland Empire

In fairness, ONT is great for major parts of Los Angeles County, namely the San Gabriel Valley. It is also reasonably close to North San Diego County and eastern Orange County.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
stirling
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RE: Ontario Airport Changes Name To LA/Ontario Int'l

Sat Dec 09, 2006 10:52 am

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 27):
Agree totally. Using the Los Angeles name is not a misnomer as the airport is quite clearly in the Greater Los Angeles Metro Area.

This whole thread is much ado about nothing.

Quoting Sllevin (Reply 21):
Heck, you can fly into LAX and find parts of the city (within the city limits, much less the county limits!) that are 2 hours away in traffic!

Ain't that the truth!

When I lived in California I would have friends going to soCal, Ontario, Temecula, Riverside, Rancho Cucamonga to be specific, but no matter where, it was always, "I'm going to LA!"

Are the cabin crews and flightdeck going to start now saying "Welcome to Los Angeles Ontario"?, or do they need to abide by the whims of marketing?
Delete this User
 
N1120A
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RE: Ontario Airport Changes Name To LA/Ontario Int'l

Sat Dec 09, 2006 11:14 am

Quoting Stirling (Reply 34):
"I'm going to LA!"



Quoting Stirling (Reply 34):
Temecula

Temecula is not L.A. It is much more San Diego
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
AlexPorter
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RE: Ontario Airport Changes Name To LA/Ontario Int'l

Sat Dec 09, 2006 12:34 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 33):
How many people outside of California do you actually think know what the Inland Empire is?

How about the O&D passengers who are the people who actually benefit from it? i.e. People in Riverside & San Bernardino counties (excluding the vast far eastern portions where people are closer to PSP and LAS). They probably know what the Inland Empire is - or at the very least what Riverside is. The same concept goes for places like Fresno. Sure, not many average people outside of California know where Fresno is (specifically), but they don't name every airport after the nearest major city, regardless of how far it is. And the people who fly to FAT are going to Fresno and places nearby. The same should apply to people going to ONT. People trying to get to the central areas of LA shouldn't fly to ONT without being prepared for quite a hassle or at the very least a long drive. The whole Ryanair example doesn't even work here, since WN also serves LAX, BUR, and SNA for only about $5 extra compared to ONT (from PHX anyway - not sure what the fare difference is for other places).

Anyway, I had forgotten about the Combined Statistical Area, of which Ontario is part of the Los Angeles CSA. But using that rationale, then BUR, LGB, and SNA - all in the more specifically defined Los Angeles MSA - should have added Los Angeles to their titles before ONT, like Los Angeles-Burbank, Los Angeles-Long Beach, and Los Angeles-Santa Ana/Anaheim/Orange County/Whatever. Maybe once that happens, then the use of Los Angeles-Ontario will make sense.
Last Flight: SCX701 MSP-PHX B738 8Jan2008
 
AADC10
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RE: Ontario Airport Changes Name To LA/Ontario Int'l

Sun Dec 10, 2006 8:00 am

Quoting AirlineBrat (Reply 16):
I am expecting an announcement any day now for a name change to LA/Bakersfield Int'l

Maybe it should the called the Los Angeles/San Diego/Ontario Airport, in similar fashion to the Burbank/Glendale/Pasadena/Bob Hope Airport.

Whatever it is called, none of the airlines have been adding many flights to ONT. Some of the legacies have even reduced mainline service and handed it over to their regional affiliate. The only way they can make it work is to raise fees at LAX to force WN to look elsewhere.
 
rampart
Posts: 1798
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 5:58 am

RE: Ontario Airport Changes Name To LA/Ontario Int'l

Sun Dec 10, 2006 11:07 am

Quoting AirlineBrat (Reply 32):
Cool, some fellow geographers in the house.



Quoting Lt-AWACS (Reply 31):
Hey I got my first degree in Geography, it is cool to see some other geography folks!!



Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 30):
Its nice to meet other Geographers.



Quoting Pbottenb (Reply 29):
Very cool - I am a geographer as well.

Nice to meet you all! Who knew? Not surprising that aviation and airlines tends to attract geographers, however, what with the travel, the weather, the planning, and the economics.

To answer Pbottenb, I happen to be a teacher, a professor (meaning I have as much research as teaching to justify my existence). I bet you and I are the only ones calling themselves "geographers" in the career line. As LAXdude, Lt-AWACS, and AirlineBrat point out, many different careers possible with some training in geography. I mean to use you as good examples for my students!

Quoting AlexPorter (Reply 36):
BUR, LGB, and SNA - all in the more specifically defined Los Angeles MSA - should have added Los Angeles to their titles before ONT, like Los Angeles-Burbank, Los Angeles-Long Beach, and Los Angeles-Santa Ana/Anaheim/Orange County/Whatever. Maybe once that happens, then the use of Los Angeles-Ontario will make sense.

Burbank, Long Beach, and Orange County all have more recognizable names than Ontario. Didn't someone accidentally get booked to ONT when they intended to get to Ontario, Canada? (or was it vice versa? can't remember, but it was relatively recent) So, Los Angeles-Ontario is not incorrect, and it adds recognition to one of the poorer known major airports of the region. Remember all the old timetables (I remember CO's best). Listing for Los Angeles gave you all the flights to LAX, BUR, ONT, and LGB.

-Rampart
 
sflaflight
Posts: 494
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2005 12:33 pm

RE: Ontario Airport Changes Name To LA/Ontario Int'l

Mon Dec 11, 2006 4:20 am

Quoting AlexPorter (Reply 36):
Anyway, I had forgotten about the Combined Statistical Area, of which Ontario is part of the Los Angeles CSA. But using that rationale, then BUR, LGB, and SNA - all in the more specifically defined Los Angeles MSA - should have added Los Angeles to their titles before ONT, like Los Angeles-Burbank, Los Angeles-Long Beach, and Los Angeles-Santa Ana/Anaheim/Orange County/Whatever. Maybe once that happens, then the use of Los Angeles-Ontario will make sense.

As someone who lives in a very spead out CSMA (Miami), I have had my fair share of defending and defining where areas start and stop.
I would have no problem saying (in fact) I advocate saying Los Angeles-Long Beach and Los Angeles-Burbank, but I still don't think the LA title should be attached to SNA and ONT. In CA, the county is the central regulatory body, with Cities falling under its jurisdiction. Those airports in LA county are LA airports. However, Once you move out of LA county into the others, then you legally loose all rights to LA.
Now, if this were NY, then it would be different. NYC saw this problem coming years ago and quickly rid themselves of separate counties (though they still exist in a traditional/historical sense) and converted King, Bronx, Queen, NY and RIchmond counties special status of Boroughs. They have (by default) become legally part of NYC. Until the day Orange, Riverside and Ventura become Boroughs, then I would agree to call them LA airports. Orange county and the rest are not legally bound to LA.

I mean if we go by CSMA designation, then we should call EWR New York City-Liberty airport, ISP New York City-Islip airport and HPN New York City-White Plains airport. That is a far stretch to a New Yorker.

Finally, ownership/mamagement should have nothing to do with anything. Just because LAWA manages it, it shouldn't mean it becomes part of the city. BAA operates many airport across the world. Does that give them the right to rename the airport after them. I can see it now. PRG Welcome to British-Prague International airport.

Just my  twocents 
 
Boston92
Posts: 2553
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2006 6:56 am

RE: Ontario Airport Changes Name To LA/Ontario Int'l

Mon Dec 11, 2006 1:34 pm

Lots of talk about ONT and MHT. Am I the only one who thinks the landside terminal of both these airports look very very alike?
"Why does a slight tax increase cost you $200 and a substantial tax cut save you 30 cents?"
 
AerospaceFan
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Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 1:43 am

RE: Ontario Airport Changes Name To LA/Ontario Int'l

Thu Dec 14, 2006 10:30 pm

I wonder how this discussion relates to the fact that John Wayne Airport (SNA) in Orange County would hardly ever be referred to as "Los Angeles Orange County Airport". I do realize that SNA is not part of the LAWA system.

The distance between L.A. City Hall and SNA is slightly less than 39 miles; the equivalent distance to ONT is about 40 miles, according to Mapquest.com.

Thanks to everyone for their comments, past, present, and future, in this thread.
What's fair is fair.
 
BostonGuy
Posts: 484
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2000 5:49 am

RE: Ontario Airport Changes Name To LA/Ontario Int'l

Thu Dec 14, 2006 11:08 pm

Quoting AlexPorter (Reply 3):
MHT is in the Manchester-Nashua, NH MSA, the nation's 119th largest, just slightly above Provo, UT.

Plenty of people in and around Boston fly out of MHT, however.

And there's free bus service now from the Boston subway system to MHT, making it quite easy to get there from Boston.

For those of us in Boston who don't have cars it's pretty easy to get to MHT.
 
LAXintl
Posts: 20183
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: Ontario Airport Changes Name To LA/Ontario Int'l

Fri Dec 15, 2006 12:27 am

While I am sure SNA would never get renamed "Los Angeles-Orange County" simply due politics, the airport without question does sit in the "greater" Los Angeles metro area.

Even while I am a resident of Los Angeles County proper, I have made use of SNA on many occasions and know many people coming to visit "Los Angeles" use the airport as their gateway. The simple fact is that the LA metro area is so huge (near 5000 sq miles) many airports do serve the region regardless of which political city/county they happen to be located in.

A good practical example of this are the many airlines that used to publish paper timetables that would combine all the regions airports (Burbank, LAX, Ontario, Orange County) all under a single "Los Angeles" destination banner, the same way many listed the New York area airports of JFK, LaGuardia and Newark simple as "New York".
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
travelin man
Posts: 3198
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2000 10:04 am

RE: Ontario Airport Changes Name To LA/Ontario Int'l

Fri Dec 15, 2006 1:33 am

Quoting Sflaflight (Reply 39):
In CA, the county is the central regulatory body, with Cities falling under its jurisdiction. Those airports in LA county are LA airports. However, Once you move out of LA county into the others, then you legally loose all rights to LA.

Please don't take offense, but I don't think you understand how airports work in Southern California.

Please see:

http://www.lawa.org for more details.

There is no "legal" use of the word Los Angeles like you are talking about.

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 43):
Even while I am a resident of Los Angeles County proper, I have made use of SNA on many occasions and know many people coming to visit "Los Angeles" use the airport as their gateway. The simple fact is that the LA metro area is so huge (near 5000 sq miles) many airports do serve the region regardless of which political city/county they happen to be located in.

Totally agree with you Laxintl. I live in Los Angeles (pretty central -- near Dodger Stadium), and I've used all five major LA-area airports for my travels. It is sometimes easier for me to get to ONT than LAX. BUR, of course, is the easiest for me.

Given that LAX, ONT, BUR, LGB, and SNA are all viable options for much of the LA Basin, it wouldn't hurt to market them as such (not that BUR, SNA, or LGB would ever go for the Los Angeles-XXX designation).

It is also interesting to note that I've seen "Los Angeles - Long Beach" on JetBlue ads in NYC.
 
77411
Posts: 103
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 2:38 am

RE: Ontario Airport Changes Name To LA/Ontario Int'l

Fri Dec 15, 2006 5:16 am

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 2):
I wonder if the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim will be using Los Angeles/Ontario International for their flight needs...

In fact they do use ONT. DL worked them on several occasions at least last season.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 35):
Temecula is not L.A. It is much more San Diego

Temecula is only a 50 minute or less drive without traffic from ONT airport. Now throw in the new name, LA/ONT Intl Airport, and according to LAWA, it is LA. In any case ONT is a bit closer to Temecula then SAN is.
 
drexotica
Posts: 150
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 3:44 am

RE: Ontario Airport Changes Name To LA/Ontario Int'l

Fri Dec 15, 2006 5:32 am

Quoting Rampart (Reply 38):
Nice to meet you all! Who knew? Not surprising that aviation and airlines tends to attract geographers, however, what with the travel, the weather, the planning, and the economics.

I am not a geographer, but do write the software that a lot of geographers use. As you might then infer, I utilize Ontario quite a bit.

Quoting 77411 (Reply 45):
Temecula is only a 50 minute or less drive without traffic from ONT airport. Now throw in the new name, LA/ONT Intl Airport, and according to LAWA, it is LA. In any case ONT is a bit closer to Temecula then SAN is.

Temecula is a nice half-way-point when driving down the 15 from the Ontario/Sanberdu area to San Diego.
N707PA - Best looking commercial aircraft ever.
 
D950
Posts: 472
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2004 12:17 am

RE: Ontario Airport Changes Name To LA/Ontario Int'l

Fri Dec 15, 2006 6:41 am

I am in the Inland Empire twice a month on business, I tried for almost a year to like ONT, but between the much higher rental car fees, and getting constant sunburn from the brake lights on I-10 when trying to get to LA/Torrance at any time other than 3 AM was worthless. I may get flamed but I love LAX.
Resting on your laurels is a synonym for flirting with disaster
 
FATFlyer
Posts: 4425
Joined: Fri May 18, 2001 4:12 am

RE: Ontario Airport Changes Name To LA/Ontario Int'l

Fri Dec 15, 2006 6:46 am

Quoting Sflaflight (Reply 39):
However, Once you move out of LA county into the others, then you legally loose all rights to LA.



Quoting Travelin man (Reply 44):
Please don't take offense, but I don't think you understand how airports work in Southern California.

So Sflaflight is saying that if an airport is located outside a county it should not use the name of the larger city? SFO is in trouble also, it should be renamed San Mateo County Airport since that is where it is located.  Wink
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
Boston92
Posts: 2553
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2006 6:56 am

RE: Ontario Airport Changes Name To LA/Ontario Int'l

Fri Dec 15, 2006 8:38 am

Quoting D950 (Reply 47):
I may get flamed but I love LAX

Not by me, LAX is probably on the top of my list too.
"Why does a slight tax increase cost you $200 and a substantial tax cut save you 30 cents?"

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