LipeGIG
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TAM To Fly GRU-MXP Effective March 30 With A332

Fri Dec 08, 2006 11:06 am

TAM just confirmed today they will begin services between Sao Paulo (GRU) and Milan (MXP) effective March 30th 2007.

Flights will be operated with a single Airbus A330-200 which means they will keep a daily-light flight on MXP-GRU route.

Time-table will be:

JJ8060 GRU 1900 MXP 1140
JJ8061 MXP 1330 GRU 2045

Its also confirmed that Tam will need to rotate one plane with another route (probably the GRU-GIG-CDG service as LHR and CDG (the late night service) keep first class service while MXP will offer only C+Y.

Flights will be probably available in TAM reservation system later on Dec 11 and probably will be announced by the airline during the "TAM Day" tomorrow on NYSE.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
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United787
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RE: TAM To Fly GRU-MXP Effective March 30 With A332

Fri Dec 08, 2006 12:32 pm

Congrats to TAM, it seems as though they are really starting to fill in the Brazilian void after Varig...
 
hardiwv
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RE: TAM To Fly GRU-MXP Effective March 30 With A332

Fri Dec 08, 2006 5:47 pm

Congratulations toTAM!

What could be the next long haul destination of TAM? MAD, AMS, ZHR?

Rgs,
 
QXatFAT
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RE: TAM To Fly GRU-MXP Effective March 30 With A332

Fri Dec 08, 2006 5:59 pm

Felipe,

Nice to talk with you again buddy.

Are there any airlines currently flying an MXP-GRU/GIG route? Altalia maybe? Or any other airline? Will this be filling in a huge void and bringing travel back to Brasil threw Italy? Or is this not on the higher end of profitable routes?

Thanks Felipe!

Kyle
Don't Tread On Me!
 
hardiwv
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RE: TAM To Fly GRU-MXP Effective March 30 With A332

Fri Dec 08, 2006 6:27 pm

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 3):
Are there any airlines currently flying an MXP-GRU/GIG route? Altalia maybe?

AZ flies MXP-GRU daily B772 red-eye. GRU is one of AZ's most profitable international destinations.

The market Italy-Brazil is huge, in business, and tourism. Brazil also has one of the biggest Italian populations in the world, more than 20 million Italian descendent live in Brazil, especially in the Sao Paulo area.

There are also about 11 weekly charter flights from Italy to Northeast Brazil, details are here: http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...d=3108206&s=brazil+italy#ID3108206

Rgs,
 
QXatFAT
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RE: TAM To Fly GRU-MXP Effective March 30 With A332

Fri Dec 08, 2006 6:34 pm

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 4):
The market Italy-Brazil is huge, in business, and tourism. Brazil also has one of the biggest Italian populations in the world, more than 20 million Italian descendent live in Brazil, especially in the Sao Paulo area.

Yes I knew this as I took a geography class studing this. And of course living in Brasil at selected times. But thank you Hardiwv!

Thank you for the information as well on the charterd flights. So then TAM is going to be making out big time in this market!

Any word on where the MD-11s will be going for TAM? Any luck that FCO could be one of these?
Don't Tread On Me!
 
airblue
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RE: TAM To Fly GRU-MXP Effective March 30 With A332

Fri Dec 08, 2006 7:20 pm

That means the bilateral Italy-Brazil is finally changed and AP could start the FCO-GIG-GRU route.
 
LIPZ
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RE: TAM To Fly GRU-MXP Effective March 30 With A332

Fri Dec 08, 2006 9:34 pm

Quoting Airblue (Reply 6):
That means the bilateral Italy-Brazil is finally changed and AP could start the FCO-GIG-GRU route.

Codesharing with RG would be the better solution, being Air One a Lufthansa Partner and Varig a Star Alliance member.
 
JJMNGR
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RE: TAM To Fly GRU-MXP Effective March 30 With A332

Fri Dec 08, 2006 11:43 pm

The first 02 MD11 will operate the 3rd flight to CDG. The 3rd MD11 will join the fleet in march and will operate JJ8094/JJ8091 GRU/MIA/GRU and than the A332 doing this route will operate GRU/MXP.
 
LipeGIG
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RE: TAM To Fly GRU-MXP Effective March 30 With A332

Sat Dec 09, 2006 2:58 am

Quoting Airblue (Reply 6):
That means the bilateral Italy-Brazil is finally changed and AP could start the FCO-GIG-GRU route.

In fact the bilateral already allows 14 weekly flights. The reason for another improvement was that ANAC approved not only Tam but also BRA to run 7 weekly flights each.

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 3):
Nice to talk with you again buddy.

Nice to talk to you also! Now i'm the cold NYC (19F today!).

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 3):
Are there any airlines currently flying an MXP-GRU/GIG route? Altalia maybe? Or any other airline? Will this be filling in a huge void and bringing travel back to Brasil threw Italy? Or is this not on the higher end of profitable routes?

BRA is flying GIG-MXP weekly service, to become 2x weekly next month. Their strategy is to run more flights with stops at Northeast (probably will be 2x GIG-MXP and 5x GIG-REC/SSA-MXP). The big problem on Brazil-Italy market IMO is that Italy (MXP) never was considered as a Hub like CDG or MAD to allow connections, this IMO reduces the power of the routes out of Italy.

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 4):
AZ flies MXP-GRU daily B772 red-eye. GRU is one of AZ's most profitable international destinations.

You're right, but probably will be hurt with JJ new service and the future RG return. Too much IMO for this market.

Quoting JJMNGR (Reply 8):
The first 02 MD11 will operate the 3rd flight to CDG. The 3rd MD11 will join the fleet in march and will operate JJ8094/JJ8091 GRU/MIA/GRU and than the A332 doing this route will operate GRU/MXP.

I'm now at NYC and need to pay you a lunch ! Let me know when you will be visiting New York !

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
QXatFAT
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RE: TAM To Fly GRU-MXP Effective March 30 With A332

Sat Dec 09, 2006 4:04 am

Quoting JJMNGR (Reply 8):
The first 02 MD11 will operate the 3rd flight to CDG. The 3rd MD11 will join the fleet in march and will operate JJ8094/JJ8091 GRU/MIA/GRU and than the A332 doing this route will operate GRU/MXP.

Does JJ have the option of purchasing these aircraft as well? Say that they see a jump in demand in certain markets and can not wait for other planes to be built, can they purchase these or extend the lease?

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 9):
future RG return.

To me, this makes no sense. Why saturate a market? IMO I think RG needs to try to tap into the Japaniese market and Middle East. .
Don't Tread On Me!
 
LipeGIG
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RE: TAM To Fly GRU-MXP Effective March 30 With A332

Sat Dec 09, 2006 7:13 am

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 10):
Does AM-Transportes Aereos Meridionais (Brazil)">JJ have the option of purchasing these aircraft as well? Say that they see a jump in demand in certain markets and can not wait for other planes to be built, can they purchase these or extend the lease?

No QXatFAT, these aircrafts need to be returned to Boeing and them will deliver them to Aeroflot for cargo conversion. The 3 M11 will be replaced by 4 777-300ER frames.

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 10):
To me, this makes no sense. Why saturate a market? IMO I think RG needs to try to tap into the Japaniese market and Middle East. .

RG has no expertise on middle east. Concerning to Japan, due to the visa requirements nowadays here in US, this route become unprofitable and faces severe competition from AF, AC, BA, LH, AA, UA, and nowadays AM also. IMO RG first need to resume key markets like LHR, MIA and MAD and also improve FRA service (they could run 2x daily). But who knows...

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
JJMNGR
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RE: TAM To Fly GRU-MXP Effective March 30 With A332

Sat Dec 09, 2006 7:24 am

No way to purchase these MD11...they are coming just as part of the deal with Boeing for the 04 + 04 B773ER for 2008. Really heavy and expensive aircraft.

Felipe, Monday I will be travelling to CDG and will be there until 14th and than I will go to LHR and will be there until 20th. Seems this year I have no chance to be in NYC.

My next trip to JFK will be FEB07 and I will adv for sure!

Richard
 
QXatFAT
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RE: TAM To Fly GRU-MXP Effective March 30 With A332

Sat Dec 09, 2006 7:55 am

Quoting JJMNGR (Reply 12):
No way to purchase these MD11...they are coming just as part of the deal with Boeing for the 04 + 04 B773ER for 2008. Really heavy and expensive aircraft.

Yes I know that these are part of the deal. I did not know if they were promised to someone else after that as well though.

Any information on JJ if they are looking at making a bigger mixed fleet with Boeing T7s and 767s and Airbus A330s and A350s? Or was this order of the T7s just because the A350 is to far away from now?
Don't Tread On Me!
 
jog
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RE: TAM To Fly GRU-MXP Effective March 30 With A33

Sat Dec 09, 2006 10:03 am

Hi Felipe, good to hear you arrived well in NY, immediately starting to provide such nice information. JJ's longhaul flight numbers are getting quite low  Wink

What I still don't get is, why do they run MXP with a single plane and not JJ8098/8099? Both to MIA and JFK they have a daylight and a night flight, providing the opportunity to passengers to choose between two flight times. Why not doing this on CDG-GRU as well, running JJ8099 exactly in the schedule as they announced for MXP-GRU now? Then they would have the aircraft to run JJ8060/8061 in the same schedule as JJ8096/8097, allowing to use the same departure/arrival banks at GRU and passengers from CDG to Brazil would have the option to choose between three differently scheduled flights. As most US flights leave around the same time, there should also be enough AF flights that could feed into the daylight flight at CDG.

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 2):
What could be the next long haul destination of TAM? MAD, AMS, ZHR?

I am still hoping for a red-eye out of AMS, but my personal guess goes for FRA  Yeah sure (BTW: arriving from LHR tonight, I noticed an MD11 from VarigLOG at AMS. Is it still a regular visitor?)

Quoting JJMNGR (Reply 8):
The first 02 MD11 will operate the 3rd flight to CDG

Do you already know what the seat configuration will be? Will they be equipped with JJ's Business Class seat?

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 13):
Any information on JJ if they are looking at making a bigger mixed fleet with Boeing T7s and 767s and Airbus A330s and A350s? Or was this order of the T7s just because the A350 is to far away from now?

TAM ordered the first version of the A350, i.e. smaller one's than the A350XWB, about the same size as the A332. The plan was to use them as a replacement for the older A332 as well as for a conservative fleet growth. With RG disappearing almost completely from the longhaul sector during the last 12 months, many opportunities arised for TAM. Especially TAM is currently able to establish themselves as the new "flag-carrier" of Brazil. Being recognized as this, enables TAM to grow faster, even if RG will open up some routes again. That's why they ordered more 6 A332 this year, being delivered over the next three years. The demand on JJ's key routes, especially to CDG and MIA, however also justifies the usage of bigger aircraft than the comparable small A332, but TAM currently does not have something for this. The A350XWB will earliest be available in 2012 which will be too late for TAM, which needs the aircraft now (therefore you are right, the A350XWB is too far away right now). Thus, TAM evaluated the A346 and the 773ER.

The 773ER probably won as Boeing was more than happy convincing an all-Airbus operator of their own planes, i.e. providing a good deal compared to Airbus which might have been too sure about this deal. In addition Boeing was able to deliver an on-the-spot solution with the 3 MD11s until the 773ER can be delivered (Of course, the 773ER was announced as the better aircraft, but that is just a matter of the price you have to pay for it...)

So, what will be the future of TAM's fleet? From 2008-2012 they will fly a mixture of 773ER as big long-haul aircraft, A332 as small long-haul aircraft and A32X for regional flights. I don't believe anything else will make it into the fleet. The only question is, what will happen to the A350 order? The size of the new A350XWB is comparable to the 773ER, whereas TAM ordered a smaller, i.e. different aircraft which will never be build. Therefore, I can imagine the following two scenarios:
1. TAM cancels the order (they might even be able to claim compensations as Airbus is not able to deliver what they bought) and buys the 787 as a replacement for the A332s.
2. If the A350XWB turns out to be a better aircraft than the 773ER, TAM makes a Singapore-Airlines like deal with Airbus, selling them the 773ER and buying even more A350XWB, replacing both the old A332s and the new 773ERs.

However, I do not expect some decisions in one of these directions in the next two years. There is no need to hurry for JJ.
 
Hagic
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RE: TAM To Fly GRU-MXP Effective March 30 With A332

Sat Dec 09, 2006 12:47 pm

Quoting LipeGIG (Thread starter):
Flights will be operated with a single Airbus A330-200 which means they will keep a daily-light flight on MXP-GRU route.

Time-table will be:

JJ8060 GRU 1900 MXP 1140
JJ8061 MXP 1330 GRU 2045

If the flight is to be operated with a single A/C, how will they be able to leave GRU at 19:00 if the plane returns from MXP at 20:45 ?
There's only one freedom of the press: That of the survivors - (G. Arciniegas)
 
LipeGIG
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RE: TAM To Fly GRU-MXP Effective March 30 With A332

Sat Dec 09, 2006 1:04 pm

Quoting Hagic (Reply 15):
If the flight is to be operated with a single A/C, how will they be able to leave GRU at 19:00 if the plane returns from MXP at 20:45 ?

This is why i comment they will rotate this plane with another route. They could not run MXP alone. Probably CDG flights will rotate planes with MXP as Tam use to keep one plane idle all the day at GRU.

Quoting Jog (Reply 14):
Hi Felipe, good to hear you arrived well in NY, immediately starting to provide such nice information. JJ's longhaul flight numbers are getting quite low

Thanks my friend. And today they announce a new daily service GRU-EZE (JJ8018/JJ8019). Seems that very shortly they will need to enter on JJ81XX (now used on Code-shares)

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
JJMNGR
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RE: TAM To Fly GRU-MXP Effective March 30 With A332

Sun Dec 10, 2006 4:17 am

There will always be a A332 during the day at GRU and this acft could assume the MXP flight.
 
runway23
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RE: TAM To Fly GRU-MXP Effective March 30 With A332

Sun Dec 10, 2006 4:27 am

Are they codesharing with any airline on this route?
 
LipeGIG
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RE: TAM To Fly GRU-MXP Effective March 30 With A332

Sun Dec 10, 2006 8:31 am

Quoting Runway23 (Reply 18):
Are they codesharing with any airline on this route?

I doubt Runway, their focus is on O&D at Milan. Connections they provide at CDG with AF (and this is why they will fly CDG 3x daily).

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
LHStarAlliance
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RE: TAM To Fly GRU-MXP Effective March 30 With A332

Sun Dec 10, 2006 8:37 am

Why no Germany flights ? Varig has 2 daily flights ...
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LipeGIG
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RE: TAM To Fly GRU-MXP Effective March 30 With A332

Sun Dec 10, 2006 10:18 am

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 20):
Why no Germany flights ? Varig has 2 daily flights ...

Can you clarify your question ? You mean why Tam doesn't fly to Germany ?

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
dellatorre
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RE: TAM To Fly GRU-MXP Effective March 30 With A332

Sun Dec 10, 2006 7:42 pm

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 19):
I doubt Runway, their focus is on O&D at Milan. Connections they provide at CDG with AF (and this is why they will fly CDG 3x daily).

Felipe

IMO Code-share with AZ might be just a matter of Time!!! That's if AZ recovers, which I think it will.

TAM simply can't afford to route all of their connecting passengers through CDG. In order to increase presence in Europe, they'll need other hubs such as AMS, MXP, LHR and maybe even FRA.

Out of those, MXP would be the best one in terms of new destinations?? FRA, AMS and LHR would pretty much compete with the same destinations offered though CDG!
 
jfk777
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RE: TAM To Fly GRU-MXP Effective March 30 With A332

Mon Dec 11, 2006 12:34 am

I think TAM should talk to Air Canada about getting some of its A330-300. This would be good for TAM to increase capacitiy over their A332. BY doing this TAM nine A333's good for 8-10 hour flights to the USA and Europe. Maybe leasing some Cathay Pacific A340'd next year when they get 773ER's is another interim solution.
 
LipeGIG
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RE: TAM To Fly GRU-MXP Effective March 30 With A332

Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:50 am

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 23):
I think TAM should talk to Air Canada about getting some of its A330-300. This would be good for TAM to increase capacitiy over their A332. BY doing this TAM nine A333's good for 8-10 hour flights to the USA and Europe. Maybe leasing some Cathay Pacific A340'd next year when they get 773ER's is another interim solution.

AC is buying a 10% share on Varig and i believe they will try to do everything to help Varig, due to this i can't see AC helping Tam.

Quoting Dellatorre (Reply 22):
IMO Code-share with AZ might be just a matter of Time!!! That's if AZ recovers, which I think it will.

TAM simply can't afford to route all of their connecting passengers through CDG. In order to increase presence in Europe, they'll need other hubs such as AMS, MXP, LHR and maybe even FRA.

Remember that Italy is shared between FCO and MXP so it's not so strong as a hub as CDG. I agree that FRA, AMS and LHR could help them, but they can focus only on O&D for those markets as no one could run 3 daily flights as CDG.
I really don't expect a code-share with AZ.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
jog
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RE: TAM To Fly GRU-MXP Effective March 30 With A332

Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:56 am

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 20):
Why no Germany flights ? Varig has 2 daily flights ...

TAM was flying to Germany for a few months around 2001. However, they faced heavy competition from RG and LH which decreased their prices significantly at that time, making the route unprofitable for JJ. Therefore, TAM stopped service to Germany soon and is really careful regarding Germany nowadays. They have their codeshare on AF flights to FRA and MUC and are observing the market carefully. TAM's president was recently very clear that they are willing to serve FRA again if they can find a local partner which can probably only be LH. I personally guess that also LH nowadays would be more than happy to switch their partnership from RG to JJ. However I don't know how easy this is based on the fact that RG is a Star Alliance member. BTW: RG flies currently only a single daily flight out of FRA

Quoting Dellatorre (Reply 22):
FRA, AMS and LHR would pretty much compete with the same destinations offered though CDG!

I don't agree here. The destinations that could be served by LH in case of a cooperation at FRA would for sure deviate form the destinations that are in the focus of connections from CDG (I am thinking here of Scandinavia, Eastern Europe and Japan/China). That's also why TAM would like to serve FRA only in case they manage to get a cooperation with LH. The German and Swiss destinations are of course well covered from CDG. LHR is mainly served as an O&D destination, although I heard reports from JJ crew about a lot of Germans on these flights as well. You might be right about AMS and that's probably why TAM is showing no interest in serving AMS.

Here we also see, why TAM prefers to keep out of the alliances. By partnering with AA at MIA, AF at CDG and LH at FRA they could more or less cover all important destinations in the world for their customers (maybe besides Australia). At the same time they are able to offer their strong Brazilian network to airlines from all countries with important relationships with Brazil.

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 23):
BY doing this TAM nine A333's good for 8-10 hour flights to the USA and Europe

Actually flights to Europe from GRU/GIG are longer than 10 hours, i.e. the A333 is no solution here and could only be used on flights to MIA. So, I don't thing the A333 is an option for TAM.
 
hardiwv
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RE: TAM To Fly GRU-MXP Effective March 30 With A332

Mon Dec 11, 2006 3:17 am

Lipe: tks for the news.

Quoting Jog (Reply 25):
TAM was flying to Germany for a few months around 2001

The route also had a leg to ZRH. In my opinion if TAM had continued in the route it would now be a profitable operation.

Quoting Jog (Reply 25):
You might be right about AMS and that's probably why TAM is showing no interest in serving AMS.

Considering AF-KL is the same company, if that TAM signs an agreement with KL in the same fashion it has with AF (and note that KL is already a partner of TAM in Brazil), AMS could be an important hub operation for TAM providing connection to a number of destinations not available in CDG. TAM would also access Europe's no. 4 hub. I think AMS could be very interesting hub for TAM.

Finally, as many pax already know, AMS is far superior hub than CDG, both in comfort and efficiency. Connecting in AMS is a breese as compared to the mess of CDG...

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 24):
AC is buying a 10% share on Varig and

Could you please clarify?

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 24):
Remember that Italy is shared between FCO and MXP so it's not so strong as a hub as CDG

Indeed, AZ has a dual hub FCO and MXP. But this strategy is now also being followed by LH in Germany by opening the MUC hub. But FCO is much more holiday-oriented (yields are low) as compared to MXP business traffic. Like GRU and GIG in Brazil.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 24):
I really don't expect a code-share with AZ.

I dont agree. AZ-TAM codeshare would grant them a duopoly in the market.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 16):
And today they announce a new daily service GRU-EZE (JJ8018/JJ8019).

2-class A320 as well?

Rgs,

Hardi @ GVA
 
LipeGIG
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RE: TAM To Fly GRU-MXP Effective March 30 With A332

Mon Dec 11, 2006 3:31 am

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 26):
Could you please clarify?

AC is under firm negotiations to buy a 10% share on new-RG from VarigLog. They will be a like of venture investor.

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 26):
I dont agree. AZ-TAM codeshare would grant them a duopoly in the market.

Tam doesn't need partners at LHR and JFK also, even with duopoly on UK-Brazil for example. I still can't agree in a partnership AZ-JJ because JJ is not looking for connections outside Italy, probably only FCO. Remember that JJ-AZ keep an interline agreement to allow AZ pax to continue to Rio de Janeiro.

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 26):
2-class A320 as well?

Exactly Hardi, 12C 144Y. Will be TAM 10th daily flight to Argentina, becoming the king of Brazil-Argentina market.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
Werkur767
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RE: TAM To Fly GRU-MXP Effective March 30 With A332

Mon Dec 11, 2006 3:39 am

LipeGIG,

What about the flights to LHR?

TAM previously announced flights to London-Heatrow. The subject did not go forward and the aviation press not mentioned anymore.
London is one of the most lucrative routes to Europe, and the only competitor is British Airways.
In Europe, Varig flies to Frankfurt, Germany. the others international routes of varig are: EZE, CCS.
For domestic destinations only ten: GRU, FOR, GIG, REC. CWB, BSB, MAO, SSA, POA, SDU
Werkurspotter
 
hardiwv
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RE: TAM To Fly GRU-MXP Effective March 30 With A332

Mon Dec 11, 2006 3:48 am

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 27):
AC is under firm negotiations to buy a 10% share on new-RG from VarigLog. They will be a like of venture investor.

Tks for the interesting information. Recently RG resumed flights to a number of domestic destinations, including FLN.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 27):
Tam doesn't need partners at LHR and JFK also

TAM has a number of partners in LHR, including Qatar to serve Midlle Eastern/Asian destinations and in JFK AA. But as you said, for MXP the O&D market will tap the demand for the flight. Interline agreement could do for FCO and other Italian destinations.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 27):
Exactly Hardi, 12C 144Y. Will be TAM 10th daily flight to Argentina, becoming the king of Brazil-Argentina market.

Indeed, and 5 daily GRU-EZE flights alone.

Quoting Werkur767 (Reply 28):
TAM previously announced flights to London-Heatrow. The subject did not go forward and the aviation press not mentioned anymore.

TAM is operating daily GRU-LHR A330 since November.

Rgs,
 
Humberside
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RE: TAM To Fly GRU-MXP Effective March 30 With A332

Mon Dec 11, 2006 4:06 am

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 29):
Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 27):
Tam doesn't need partners at LHR and JFK also

TAM has a number of partners in LHR, including Qatar to serve Midlle Eastern/Asian destinations and in JFK AA. But as you said, for MXP the O&D market will tap the demand for the flight. Interline agreement could do for FCO and other Italian destinations.

At LHR do they have any agreement with bmi for UK domestic connections?
Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
 
jog
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RE: TAM To Fly GRU-MXP Effective March 30 With A332

Mon Dec 11, 2006 6:08 am

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 26):
In my opinion if TAM had continued in the route it would now be a profitable operation.

In my opinion, even starting it now and doing a bit of marketing, it could be made into a very profitable operation with the huge network JJ is now able to offer from GRU. Selling the Y class shouldn't be a problem at all. LH fares are incredible, but also the DE twice weekly charter to SSA as well as the BRA charter from CGN to GIG seem to be booked well at high prices. There is a lot of "German" business in Sao Paulo and south of which TAM should also be able to grab its share, maybe a little bit on the expense of LH.

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 26):
Finally, as many pax already know, AMS is far superior hub than CDG, both in comfort and efficiency. Connecting in AMS is a breese as compared to the mess of CDG...

100% agree! (although taxiing might take as long as in CDG as I recently experienced when arriving from LHR)
 
LipeGIG
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RE: TAM To Fly GRU-MXP Effective March 30 With A332

Tue Dec 12, 2006 2:31 am

Quoting Jog (Reply 31):
In my opinion, even starting it now and doing a bit of marketing, it could be made into a very profitable operation with the huge network JJ is now able to offer from GRU. Selling the Y class shouldn't be a problem at all. LH fares are incredible, but also the DE twice weekly charter to SSA as well as the BRA charter from CGN to GIG seem to be booked well at high prices. There is a lot of "German" business in Sao Paulo and south of which TAM should also be able to grab its share, maybe a little bit on the expense of LH.

I don't think so Jog. Germany is a hard market and even Tam keeping a huge network, be in mind that the huge investment is from German in Brazil which means more people from Germany than Brazilians. Also, the lack of a network in Germany (where the market is too much shared) does not give Tam a good product, as well as LH and RG seems to be strong players.

They could took advantage of the world cup last year, but nowadays, it's not that easy.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !

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