LawnDart
Topic Author
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AA Amends DFW-PEK Application

Sat Dec 09, 2006 5:10 am

American Airlines today asked the Department of Transportation (DOT) to approve a modification of its application to serve the Dallas/Fort Worth- Beijing, China, market. AA is applying to operate the U.S. to China segment as a through flight from Dallas/Fort Worth to Chicago and then Beijing. The return flight will be operated nonstop from Beijing.

AA will fly nonstop DFW-PEK as soon as it is possible to do so.
 
PropClear
Posts: 7
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RE: AA Amends DFW-PEK Application

Sat Dec 09, 2006 5:17 am

Why didn't they just pull their application altogether?!?!
 
worldtraveler
Posts: 3417
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RE: AA Amends DFW-PEK Application

Sat Dec 09, 2006 5:20 am

AA's out of the running. I'm sure the APA is happy now.

My odds are now on CO.
 
EWRCabincrew
Posts: 4306
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RE: AA Amends DFW-PEK Application

Sat Dec 09, 2006 5:22 am

Hurry up DOT!!!! Get with it and let us all in on the route awarding, already!!!!
Jeez!!!
You can't cure stupid
 
JayDavis
Posts: 1870
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RE: AA Amends DFW-PEK Application

Sat Dec 09, 2006 5:24 am

For pilots being some of the brightest and sharpest minds in the business, when they join a union, they become some of the dumbest and pig-headedness group of people in the world !!

They just bargained themselves out of a new route.
 
worldtraveler
Posts: 3417
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RE: AA Amends DFW-PEK Application

Sat Dec 09, 2006 5:32 am

this is a glimpse into what AA has to look forward to for the next 4 years until everyone else's labor contracts expire.
 
geniusjacky
Posts: 32
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2006 8:22 am

RE: AA Amends DFW-PEK Application

Sat Dec 09, 2006 5:36 am

Why do they have to go through ORD now? I doesn't seem pilots would be happier that way.
 
EWRCabincrew
Posts: 4306
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 2:37 am

RE: AA Amends DFW-PEK Application

Sat Dec 09, 2006 5:38 am

It does seem like AA is shooting themselves with this amendment. You would think this type of amendment, so late in the program would hurt, rather than, help their case.
You can't cure stupid
 
MaverickM11
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RE: AA Amends DFW-PEK Application

Sat Dec 09, 2006 5:48 am

Everyone take a picture; this is what shooting yourself in the foot looks like.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
panamair
Posts: 3767
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 2:24 am

RE: AA Amends DFW-PEK Application

Sat Dec 09, 2006 5:52 am

Here's the official press release from AA:

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/061208/daf015.html?.v=101

The last sentence of the press release is already acknowledging defeat:

".....If DOT does not award the route to American with the authority to operate on a through-service basis, American will resubmit an application for China authority in the next DOT proceeding."
 
dutchjet
Posts: 7714
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RE: AA Amends DFW-PEK Application

Sat Dec 09, 2006 5:54 am

A stopover in Chicago on the outbound flight, but nonstop on the return.......dont think thats going to work out to well in real life.
 
EWRCabincrew
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Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 2:37 am

RE: AA Amends DFW-PEK Application

Sat Dec 09, 2006 6:03 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 10):
A stopover in Chicago on the outbound flight, but nonstop on the return.......dont think thats going to work out to well in real life.

So much for a non-stop. That won't sit well with DFW business people at all
You can't cure stupid
 
AA767400
Posts: 1892
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RE: AA Amends DFW-PEK Application

Sat Dec 09, 2006 6:05 am

Another reason why I can't stand some Pilots. They bitch about everything, and this time they have gone too far. One more route lost to CO, as if they did not fly to enough places already.

Let the Pilots keep flying CUN turns out of DFW for the rest of their lives.  sarcastic 
"The low fares airline."
 
EWRCabincrew
Posts: 4306
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 2:37 am

RE: AA Amends DFW-PEK Application

Sat Dec 09, 2006 6:11 am

Quoting AA767400 (Reply 12):
One more route lost to CO, as if they did not fly to enough places already.

It's not that we fly to enough places, it is that we will serve our intended market (EWR-PVG) non-stop. AA has the ability to expand like anyone does. It apparently has come down to an internal problem within AA that might cost them a potential route.
You can't cure stupid
 
style
Posts: 208
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 12:40 pm

RE: AA Amends DFW-PEK Application

Sat Dec 09, 2006 6:19 am

Quoting AA767400 (Reply 12):
One more route lost to CO, as if they did not fly to enough places already

Thats an unfair statement especially coming from someone who is from AA. Last I checked AA had the largest market share, no CO.

Besides, lets not forget about the UA application and the MASSIVE political backing it had. I still think it will be a photo finish. It should go to CO though, they present the best case.
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 4460
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RE: AA Amends DFW-PEK Application

Sat Dec 09, 2006 6:25 am

Adios AA. Its too bad, I was really pulling for them. They literally have no chance now.
It is what it is...
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
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RE: AA Amends DFW-PEK Application

Sat Dec 09, 2006 6:39 am

I would gather this news will also make it more difficult for both AA and DL in '08. If AA doesn't win this round, they'll be up against DL's ATL application the next time, a scenario they've just handed themselves.
International Homo of Mystery
 
COewrAAtysAZ
Posts: 149
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RE: AA Amends DFW-PEK Application

Sat Dec 09, 2006 6:47 am

Do we still have any idea when the DOT will give a response?
Continental Airlines: Trabajar con empe�?��?�±o, Volar con Pasi�?��?�³n
 
SeeTheWorld
Posts: 1090
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RE: AA Amends DFW-PEK Application

Sat Dec 09, 2006 8:41 am

Quoting Coewraatysaz (Reply 17):
Do we still have any idea when the DOT will give a response?

Most likely very near the end of the month, give or take.
 
dutchjet
Posts: 7714
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RE: AA Amends DFW-PEK Application

Sat Dec 09, 2006 8:56 am

Quoting Coewraatysaz (Reply 17):
Do we still have any idea when the DOT will give a response?



Quoting SeeTheWorld (Reply 18):
Most likely very near the end of the month, give or take.

Should be very soon......but for ""politics"" the decision should have been made by now, the airline selected will launch the route in the 2Q 2007 which is only months away.
 
commavia
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RE: AA Amends DFW-PEK Application

Sat Dec 09, 2006 8:56 am

A few points:

. First, as pretty much everyone has said, the APA really screwed this one up -- the entire company, and now all the unions, are pissed not only at APA's quite possibly costing AA a huge revenue stream in the form of a new route to a burgeoning and yet capacity-restricted market, and with their ridiculous demands

. Second, AA might have done better to move their application from DFW-PEK to DFW-LAX-PEK rather than DFW-ORD-PEK. At LAX, AA could draw on huge O&D and some strong connections from other major U.S. cities; but alas, I don't know if it would help much as AA has now lost a ton of face with the DoT, as other mentioned

. Finally, what now for the two 777s AA would have allocated to DFW-PEK? Miami-South Africa, anyone?
 
worldtraveler
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RE: AA Amends DFW-PEK Application

Sat Dec 09, 2006 9:00 am

AA will still have to stop in west Africa if the pilots won't budge in which case DL has a better advantage at ATL with much greater connectivity. Yes, MIA-XXX-JNB could work but they would not be building from a position of strength. Probably they'll end up in S. America.

DL would gladly take a couple of AA's 777s.
 
dutchjet
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RE: AA Amends DFW-PEK Application

Sat Dec 09, 2006 9:04 am

Quoting Commavia (Reply 20):
A few points:

. First, as pretty much everyone has said, the APA really screwed this one up -- the entire company, and now all the unions, are pissed not only at APA's quite possibly costing AA a huge revenue stream in the form of a new route to a burgeoning and yet capacity-restricted market, and with their ridiculous demands

. Second, AA might have done better to move their application from DFW-PEK to DFW-LAX-PEK rather than DFW-ORD-PEK. At LAX, AA could draw on huge O&D and some strong connections from other major U.S. cities; but alas, I don't know if it would help much as AA has now lost a ton of face with the DoT, as other mentioned

. Finally, what now for the two 777s AA would have allocated to DFW-PEK? Miami-South Africa, anyone?

Interesting and honest analysis......I know that you favor AA and thanks for being so realistic in your comments. It does seem that AA has effectively taken themselves out of the competition for the route authority.

Your DFW-LAX-PEK alternative could have kept AA in the ballgame, in my humble opinion; the DFW-ORD-PEK/PEK-DFW routing just doesnt make sense from so many point of views.

Does AA have the guts to open up the long discussed South Africa route?

Or, with AA's surprising success on its routes to NRT, shouldnt MIA-NRT be a possibility (if slots could be obtained)?
 
worldtraveler
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RE: AA Amends DFW-PEK Application

Sat Dec 09, 2006 9:14 am

AA couldn't find slots for HNLNRT so it's not likely they would find them for MIANRT.

Remember the problem is APA won't fly an AA airplane for 15 hours, easily what it would take to fly MIANRT.

for all practical purposes, AA's 777s right now are going to be flying to S. America or Europe or on routes that make a stop en route to Asia unless its from one of the coasts.
 
TokyoNarita
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RE: AA Amends DFW-PEK Application

Sat Dec 09, 2006 9:15 am

Quote:
Or, with AA's surprising success on its routes to NRT, shouldnt MIA-NRT be a possibility (if slots could be obtained)?

AA should still have the SJC slot that they recently discontinued. It will be interesting to see what they are going to do with those NRT slots.

TokyoNarita.
 
jacobin777
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RE: AA Amends DFW-PEK Application

Sat Dec 09, 2006 9:26 am

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 21):
Yes, MIA-XXX-JNB could work but they would not be building from a position of strength. Probably they'll end up in S. America.

MIA-XXX-JNB (MIA-LOS-JNB or MIA-DKR-JNB)... is a huge market..something which AA should tap....

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 21):

DL would gladly take a couple of AA's 777s.

AA already has a need for more 777's...what are they going to do by selling it to DL?

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 23):
Remember the problem is APA won't fly an AA airplane for 15 hours, easily what it would take to fly MIANRT.

DEL-ORD is close to 16 hours, which kind of negates your argument....
"Up the Irons!"
 
AADC10
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RE: AA Amends DFW-PEK Application

Sat Dec 09, 2006 9:42 am

It looks like AA is going to the route they really wanted in the first place, ORD-PEK. DFW was just a ploy to get support from Texas Republicans. AA's bid was always marginal since there would be very few O&D passengers from DFW. UA probably would have preferred SFO-CAN but they switched to IAD-PEK to get more political juice behind it. Apparently the decision process is too political. CO will probably still win.
 
MAH4546
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RE: AA Amends DFW-PEK Application

Sat Dec 09, 2006 9:45 am

Quoting TokyoNarita (Reply 24):
AA should still have the SJC slot that they recently discontinued. It will be interesting to see what they are going to do with those NRT slots.

They no longer have the slots.

Quoting Commavia (Reply 20):
. Finally, what now for the two 777s AA would have allocated to DFW-PEK? Miami-South Africa, anyone?

Miami-South Africa (probably with an intermediate stop) or a second Chicago-India route (both Bombay and Bangalore) are closely looked at. Neither would begin in April 2007. They would start in November 2007 if approved. I definitley don't think they are going to go to South America. AA is going to launch a "big" new route in 2007, and it is going to be either a second non-stop US-India route or a non-stop US-Africa route.
a.
 
AA767400
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RE: AA Amends DFW-PEK Application

Sat Dec 09, 2006 9:45 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 25):
DEL-ORD is close to 16 hours, which kind of negates your argument....

This I wonder as well.

If they can do DEL, What is the problem with PEK? I guess it would be one more ultra long flight for them.
"The low fares airline."
 
LAXintl
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RE: AA Amends DFW-PEK Application

Sat Dec 09, 2006 9:50 am

Quoting Commavia (Reply 20):
DFW-LAX-PEK

 checkmark  Agree a LAX stop probably would be more reasonable both ways. It would also be the first US carrier service between LA-China which might have some consumer benefit considering the market is currently served by 3 Chinese airlines.

However ultimately, I believe AA just took themselves out of the ball game with their stated intention to make the service a one stop affair.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
LFutia
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RE: AA Amends DFW-PEK Application

Sat Dec 09, 2006 9:51 am

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 23):
Remember the problem is APA won't fly an AA airplane for 15 hours, easily what it would take to fly MIANRT.

Our flight from Delhi to Chicago was a little over 15 hours back in August 2006.

Leo
Leo/ORD -- Groetjes uit de VS! -- Heeft u laatst nog met KLM gevlogen?
 
UALFAson
Posts: 768
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RE: AA Amends DFW-PEK Application

Sat Dec 09, 2006 10:21 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 25):
DEL-ORD is close to 16 hours, which kind of negates your argument....

AA and ALPA worked out a special agreement/exception for the ORD-DEL flights.

Depending on whose side you take, ALPA is using this DFW-PEK application to petition for arguably non-related work rule changes.

USA Today ran a good article about the pilots' demands versus company response a week or so ago. Here is the link:

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/fligh...0-aa-pilots-china-bid_x.htm?csp=34
"We hope you've enjoyed flying with us as much as we've enjoyed taking you for a ride."
 
jacobin777
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Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: AA Amends DFW-PEK Application

Sat Dec 09, 2006 10:49 am

Quoting UALFAson (Reply 31):

AA and ALPA worked out a special agreement/exception for the ORD-DEL flights.

..which means they could have worked on a special agreement/exception for this route..but its probably a mute point now...

Quoting UALFAson (Reply 31):
USA Today ran a good article about the pilots' demands versus company response a week or so ago. Here is the link:

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/fligh...sp=34

thanks for the link.. checkmark ...intersting read....

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 27):
second Chicago-India route (both Bombay and Bangalore)

ORD-BLR is not possible nonstop, and offering a stop is something which might
negate their advantage....ORD-BOM is pushing the nonstop flight also..probably weight restricted at times...but would be a good route...

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 27):
AA is going to launch a "big" new route in 2007, and it is going to be either a second non-stop US-India route or a non-stop US-Africa route.

USA-Africa has lots of potential..especially from MIA....
"Up the Irons!"
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24612
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: AA Amends DFW-PEK Application

Sat Dec 09, 2006 11:27 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 32):
ORD-BLR is not possible nonstop, and offering a stop is something which might
negate their advantage....ORD-BOM is pushing the nonstop flight also..probably weight restricted at times...but would be a good route...

It is pushing it. I don't know the details, but the fact that AA is looking at ORD-BOM and ORD-BLR was leaked into the major newspapers in India last Friday.
a.
 
jacobin777
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Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: AA Amends DFW-PEK Application

Sat Dec 09, 2006 12:01 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 33):
It is pushing it. I don't know the details, but the fact that AA is looking at ORD-BOM and ORD-BLR was leaked into the major newspapers in India last Friday.

Interesting...will try to look for it on the internet..maybe something will come up...

I see BOM well before BLR....in fact, I would think BLR would be better served from the SFO/SJC area (due to the technology connection and very large Indian population-not that Chicago doesnt have one too-having lived there for 3 decades and still commuting every month).....but that would require an -LR based plane (or of course, a 1-stop service)....

Thanks...

Regards.
"Up the Irons!"
 
airportplan
Posts: 319
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2004 12:36 am

RE: AA Amends DFW-PEK Application

Sat Dec 09, 2006 10:41 pm

Quoting AADC10 (Reply 26):
It looks like AA is going to the route they really wanted in the first place, ORD-PEK. DFW was just a ploy to get support from Texas Republicans. AA's bid was always marginal since there would be very few O&D passengers from DFW. UA probably would have preferred SFO-CAN but they switched to IAD-PEK to get more political juice behind it. Apparently the decision process is too political.

I agree that DFW was just a political ploy. AA really wanted ORD-PEK in the first place. ORD-PVG is one of AA's most lucurative flights, particulary on the cargo side. There was a large article about this in last month's Airline Business Magazine. They also want to match UA's offerings from ORD.
 
slvrblt
Posts: 280
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2004 11:19 pm

RE: AA Amends DFW-PEK Application

Sat Dec 09, 2006 11:48 pm

It is just amazing to me the degree of selfishness that this pilot work group exhibits...it seems to know no bounds. They are the highest-paid, yet least productive work group in AMR.

I don't begrudge them their pay- they SHOULD be highly paid, they are responsible for hundreds of people's lives at any given time. I think they should even get a raise. But do some work for it, guys.

Get your work rules in line with reality and today's world around you. This isn't the cushy, regulated world of the 1970's anymore. You have the honor of working for the only legacy carrier never to file bankruptcy. Our fate is still squarely in our hands...check out DL and their hostile takeover situation. the creditors may still have something to say about that.

Try and act like AMR does matter to you. Everything the APA seems to do, the message they transmit, is ME< ME< ME. It's all about ME. Your co-workers are a little sick of you all right now.

WAKE UP PILOTS!!! Get a reality check with today's world around you.
..everything works out in the end.
 
777FlyGuy
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RE: AA Amends DFW-PEK Application

Sun Dec 10, 2006 12:44 am

I recall when I lived in Dallas during the pilot contract negotiations that required presidential intervention. The union is eventually going to kill AA. It's pretty hard to have sympathy for those crybaby's on this issue.
 
adh214
Posts: 346
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 1999 6:07 am

RE: AA Amends DFW-PEK Application

Sun Dec 10, 2006 1:49 am

Everytime I see a situation like this, I come back to my idea for pilot pay. Simply the pilots will be paid xx% of the operating revenue of the airline. The pilot's union will have determine how they want to divy it up for the pilots. Who files which routes? What rates of pay per type? What portion of benefits, etc?

At the end of the day AA just needs a pilot to move an aircraft from point A to point B. All of the debate about work rules really is just a game the unions play to get more money out of the AA.

If pilot pay is a fixed percentage of revenue, the work rules no longer matter to AA management. As long as the union has the right number of pilots on each revenue flight, AA management will be satisfied.
 
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STT757
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RE: AA Amends DFW-PEK Application

Sun Dec 10, 2006 2:28 am

Quote:
CO's Continental Airlines Pilots Support Carrier in Effort to Gain Access to Shanghai

HOUSTON, Dec. 1 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Continental Airlines (NYSE: CAL) has received the endorsement of its pilots' union, a unit of the Air Line Pilots' Association International (ALPA), in its efforts to provide service between New York/Newark and Shanghai. Citing the strong support of Continental Airlines' pilots, union leader Captain Dave Earnest today urged the U.S. Department of Transportation to approve Continental's application for service linking the financial and commercial capitals of New York/Newark and Shanghai.

"Winning the route to the large and growing Chinese market would help to continue the ongoing growth that began two years ago at Continental," Captain Earnest said. "We made a huge investment in this enterprise back in March 2005, and it is gratifying to see the airline carrying through on its promise to use that investment to provide future growth.

"Continental's agreement with its pilots already provides for these flights, and the pilots are ready, willing and more than able to operate Shanghai service," Captain Earnest added. "If the Department of Transportation makes the right decision, Continental pilots will be flying to Shanghai in 2007."

ALPA represents Continental's 4,600 pilots.

Continental proposes to serve the largest market without current nonstop service between the U.S. and China, New York/Newark-Shanghai. New York/Newark-Shanghai is the only proposal on the table that will serve the U.S.' largest metropolitan area and the second largest Asian and Chinese populations in the country. The Continental proposal will bring first-time daily, nonstop service to the U.S. east coast from Shanghai and will drive more trade and commerce for the entire U.S. than any other proposal under consideration.

Continental Airlines is the world's fifth largest airline. Continental, together with Continental Express and Continental Connection, has more than 3,200 daily departures. 400 additional points are served via SkyTeam alliance airlines. With 44,000 employees, Continental has hubs serving New York, Houston, Cleveland and Guam, and serves 151 domestic and 136 international destinations. Continental consistently earns awards and critical acclaim for both its operation and its corporate culture.


http://www.continental.com/web/en-US...D=EFF203257F1742F9BC079732CA91B9D4
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
FL450
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2005 5:53 pm

RE: AA Amends DFW-PEK Application

Sun Dec 10, 2006 4:21 am

Oh that's it blame a pilot. Maybe AMR should have came to the table with a fair offer? How about you blame management. Get real
 
AA767400
Posts: 1892
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2001 2:04 am

RE: AA Amends DFW-PEK Application

Sun Dec 10, 2006 4:26 am

Quoting STT757 (Reply 39):
Quote:
CO's Continental Airlines Pilots Support Carrier in Effort to Gain Access to Shanghai

Well STT757, At least there is a Pilot group out there that still knows what is best for their company. I hope CO get's the route because they deserve it.
"The low fares airline."
 
UALFAson
Posts: 768
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2004 2:41 pm

RE: AA Amends DFW-PEK Application

Sun Dec 10, 2006 7:50 am

Quoting STT757 (Reply 39):
Quote:
CO's Continental Airlines Pilots Support Carrier in Effort to Gain Access to Shanghai

UA and NW also issued press releases with statements from their major unions saying the unions supported their employer's route request.

I don't think any of them mentioned AA by name, but funny how all 3 other airlines coincidentally released such statements right after news broke about ALPA's new demands and battle with AA management. Hmm...
"We hope you've enjoyed flying with us as much as we've enjoyed taking you for a ride."
 
777FlyGuy
Posts: 139
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2006 12:29 am

RE: AA Amends DFW-PEK Application

Sun Dec 10, 2006 8:45 am

Quoting Fl450 (Reply 40):
Oh that's it blame a pilot. Maybe AMR should have came to the table with a fair offer? How about you blame management. Get real

Why is it other can carriers operate similar stage routes without a beef from their pilots and not AA? OK, it may not be 100% unions fault, but look at it this way - it's not as if the pilots didn't know the carrier was going to bid this route. Why all of a sudden is it an issue? Why didn't this come out as soon as AA made the route request?
 
worldtraveler
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Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:18 am

RE: AA Amends DFW-PEK Application

Sun Dec 10, 2006 1:09 pm

you honestly have to ask why AA signed a contract that restricted the use of an airplane that is capable of 16 hr flights to begin with. Mgmt shoulders some of the responsibility. It is clear that DL and CO see the 777ER as an 8000 SM airplane; the LR could easily be a 9000 SM airplane - although I don't think there are a whole lot of routes that make sense beyond that range. DL wouldn't have bought the LR if they thought they'd have problems getting the pilots to fly it.

AA has no choice but to let the pilots carry out their threats rather than have mgmt cave into their demands but based on history the pilots will quickly see that their actions will cripple AA and its ability to expand - esp. to Asia where every other carrier is now getting into the action.
 
jacobin777
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Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: AA Amends DFW-PEK Application

Sun Dec 10, 2006 1:18 pm

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 44):
you honestly have to ask why AA signed a contract that restricted the use of an airplane that is capable of 16 hr flights to begin with. Mgmt shoulders some of the responsibility. It is clear that DL and CO see the 777ER as an 8000 SM airplane; the LR could easily be a 9000 SM airplane - although I don't think there are a whole lot of routes that make sense beyond that range. DL wouldn't have bought the LR if they thought they'd have problems getting the pilots to fly it.

If AA was in bankruptcy...the pilots would be flying that route without raising too much of a stink....
"Up the Irons!"
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24612
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: AA Amends DFW-PEK Application

Sun Dec 10, 2006 1:22 pm

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 45):
Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 44):
you honestly have to ask why AA signed a contract that restricted the use of an airplane that is capable of 16 hr flights to begin with. Mgmt shoulders some of the responsibility. It is clear that DL and CO see the 777ER as an 8000 SM airplane; the LR could easily be a 9000 SM airplane - although I don't think there are a whole lot of routes that make sense beyond that range. DL wouldn't have bought the LR if they thought they'd have problems getting the pilots to fly it.

If AA was in bankruptcy...the pilots would be flying that route without raising too much of a stink....

Yes, but, don't you know, Delta does everything perfectly.  sarcastic 
a.
 
BigGSFO
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RE: AA Amends DFW-PEK Application

Sun Dec 10, 2006 4:21 pm

I might be naive about all of this, but surely AA would have considered that their current work rules would have prohibited them operating this flight before they even put their bid on paper. So none of this comes as a surprise although I agree with the consensus that AA will most likely not be awarded this route. In addition, if they come back to the table in 2008 wioth DFW-PEK with their same arguement, chances are they will lose again to DL's ATL-PEK bid. IMO AA should strongly consdier LAX-China. Even in this announcement, a DFW-LAX-PEK is a far stronger amendment than DFW-ORD-PEK-DFW.

Time for plan #B...then of course they could always buy NW...  sarcastic 
 
slvrblt
Posts: 280
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2004 11:19 pm

RE: AA Amends DFW-PEK Application

Sun Dec 10, 2006 8:03 pm

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 47):
I might be naive about all of this, but surely AA would have considered that their current work rules would have prohibited them operating this flight before they even put their bid on paper. So none of this comes as a surprise although I agree with the consensus that AA will most likely not be awarded this route. In addition, if they come back to the table in 2008 wioth DFW-PEK with their same arguement, chances are they will lose again to DL's ATL-PEK bid. IMO AA should strongly consdier LAX-China. Even in this announcement, a DFW-LAX-PEK is a far stronger amendment than DFW-ORD-PEK-DFW.

the current work rules don't prohibit anything...these are added demands completely unrelated to flying the route. What does having priority to the flight attendant's jumpseats have to do with flying to China??? that didn't sit well with the F/A's, let me tell you. Plus, there was a news report that the pilots wanted nonrev priority over EVERYBODY ELSE. Yes, that has a lot to do with flying to China. Again...they deserve the best pay. No argument. But they need to get their heads out of their rears and stop being so bloody selfish.
..everything works out in the end.
 
dutchjet
Posts: 7714
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

RE: AA Amends DFW-PEK Application

Sun Dec 10, 2006 8:17 pm

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 44):
you honestly have to ask why AA signed a contract that restricted the use of an airplane that is capable of 16 hr flights to begin with. Mgmt shoulders some of the responsibility. It is clear that DL and CO see the 777ER as an 8000 SM airplane; the LR could easily be a 9000 SM airplane - although I don't think there are a whole lot of routes that make sense beyond that range. DL wouldn't have bought the LR if they thought they'd have problems getting the pilots to fly it.

After the fiasco that Delta went through with its pilots and the operation of the 777s just a few short years ago which effectively prohibited DL from adding much needed additional 777s to their fleet....I really dont think that using DL is a great example in this case.

Your response will be ""that was then and this is now and everything has changed at Delta, etc"" because:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 46):

Yes, but, don't you know, Delta does everything perfectly.

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